Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

andre1969

that '74 Benz was the awkward hardtop model. I notice the seller conveniently took the pics at an angle to disguise that fact at a quick glance. At first I thought it was one of those little 2-seaters with the hard top in place.

gsemike

"it needs a new front suspension and I believe a CV assembly"

Does it absolutely look good besides that? It sounds like you're talking about a grands worth of work so you should be able to make a grand on it. If you've got the time it sounds like a decent proposition.

qbrozen

i haven't looked at the prices of parts yet - is that $1k just parts or are you talking parts and labor.

If it makes a difference to peoples' opinions, I would be doing all the work myself. So repairs are parts only.

gsemike

I was thinking parts and labor at an independant shop, but that is a complete WAG

lemmer

How could anyone in their right mind pass up a running Civic for $1000. Do it! (and don't consult your wife next time).

qbrozen

well.... honestly, i'm beginning to talk myself out of it.

loaded up a shopping cart at my favorite online parts dealer with what I believe the car may need to begin with (CV, shocks, control arms) to the tune of $800. It then dawned on me that this car may very well be in need of a timing belt as well. Sure, not exactly a task that will break the bank as far as parts go, but its also a task I HATE doing (i'd love nothing more than to avoid changing another timing belt for the rest of my life).

So... anyway, now I'm thinking, to do it right, I might be looking at $2k when all is said and done AND maybe 20 or so hours of my time. If I equate that to a reasonable $25/hr, we're talking $500 in my labor.

Is the car worth $2500 with the history it possesses? I'd say that's debatable. But certainly no longer the screaming bargain I thought it might be.

Opinions?

lemmer

If you are doing it to make money, I say don't do it.

If you are doing it because you want to mess around with and drive a Civic for a short time at no cost to you, then do it.

You could probably buy it and sell it as is on eBay for a decent profit.

qbrozen

yes, it would be for resale. We can't afford another car right now. Besides, if I was getting an old civic for MYSELF, it would NOT be an automatic!

i've definitely thought about selling it as is ... but I know I won't be able to do it.

I have a problem with selling a car that needs repairs that I know it needs and could do if I wanted. Its like when I sold my volvo and did a ton of work on it beforehand. I had several people ask me "why are you selling it if you've done all this work recently?" My answer is, I did all this BECAUSE I'm selling. They find that hard to believe. *shrug*

fintail

This is a rare model

70s cruiser for the DIYer

xwesx

I am the same way. Apparently, there are a lot of people out there who have no qualms with passing off their problems on someone else, but I am not one of those people. If I am going to sell something, I will either do the work first or, if I really have no time/ability, will appropriately deduct from my asking price and fully disclose any non-apparent "personality" or upcoming maintenance. Things like fluid changes, etc, are sure to be done just prior to sale.

As a buyer, there is nothing more satisfying than a reasonable period of trouble-free ownership.

xwesx

Ugh.... the rims on that Chevy are hideous on the eyes.... and he has TWO sets of them? :sick:

qbrozen

column shifter is a turn-off, but still a good looking car.

Are crappy pictures better than no pictures at all? Low miles for the year.

Most of what I posted yesterday has been relisted today. Quite a few anxious sellers, it seems.

bumpy

I don't think "super and "Saab" belong together

"this truck is very rusty" + Unibody = doom

"Pacemaker" means something else these days
Check out the wacky speedo.

yep, this car needs to go... to the junkyard

2.8 is a bit underpowered for a Teutonic sedan

$5,000? Not with that paint job.

Not blinged out. Amazing.

"Engine was replaced in 1998 by original owner..." I think that's a hint.

There's a reason it's in Kilmarnock instead of Richmond.

fintail

Same seller on those too, "make an offer"....dude, this isn't ebay.

That 733 does look to be an odd survivor, most I see around here are really shot.

fintail

Shame about that 61 Ford, that big back window is sought after IIRC.

$2500 for that W124 looks OK...car looks nice in the pics. The W123 coupe is about triple price, at the least. The interior looks pretty shot too...the car has likely been sun baked.

Impala looks better than 99% of sedans I've seen, but his price is several times reality.

qbrozen

huh. i didn't even notice it was the same seller. I wonder what else he's got in that garage.

andre1969

really unit-bodied? That would seem strange to me. With the exception of stuff like the Ford Falcon, the Australian Mopar ute, the Rabbit and Rampage pickups, and other car-based stuff, there has never been a true unit-bodied pickup that I know of.

Some might point to the Jeep Commanche of the 80's or the Honda Ridgeline of today. However, the Commanche had some pretty substantial frame rails welded up underneath it to connect the bed with the cab, while the Ridgeline has a complete frame underneath it from stem to stern. They might call them unibody, but examples like this just drive home the point that body-on-frame is usually the way to go when building a pickup.

bumpy

It's called a "Unibody" because the cab and bed are one piece, rather than being separate assemblies. It's still body-on-frame. Ford built the F-series pickups that way for a few years in the early '60s. Unfortunately, that makes it a giant pain in the butt to repair or replace the bed, so the only ones worth fixing up are the ones that don't need fixing up.

andre1969

Okay, gotcha. That kinda makes sense now..."unibody" in the sens of the cab being joined with the bed, as opposed to any reference to the underlying structure.

I'd imagine that must've been an expensive way to build the trucks. I always thought the main reason they build pickups with the bed being separate is so that the cab can be used in a variety of applications, such as medium duty trucks and so forth.

I guess building the bed and cab as one piece probably made for a pretty stiff structure...as long as it didn't rust out!

Mr_Shiftright

You can jump start a 6 V car with a 12V battery in an emergency---but you need to do it quickly and not crank and crank and crank---I've done this many times with no ill effect. But again, you need to gingerly apply and remove the battery cables quickly and ONLY apply 12V through the 6V battery---never, ever trying to hotwire a coil or by-pass a starter motor or solenoid.

andre1969

would this be a good example of a low-rust car, by Massachusetts standards? :P

Mr_Shiftright

I think the fact that he got 0 bids at $499 in 6 days of trying sort of answers your question.

It's not the rust you see, it's the rust you don't see that you have to worry about.

Still the car should be worth $499 you'd think.

bumpy

The Unibody was a styling exercise, and a rather unpopular one after the shortcomings became evident. One problem was that the cab-bed assembly still had a lot of flex in it, and it was possible to get the frame and body off-aligned enough to pinch the doors shut. Ford made a separate wide bed available in '63 (the fender-side beds were always separate) and abandoned the Unibody for '64.

http://www.automobiliausa.com/carsforsale_61_ford_truck.htm

Mr_Shiftright

I'm not sure why a truck recently dragged out of a swamp is worth $2,000. :confuse:

bumpy

It cost $2000 to drag it out of the swamp.

And if you can find a better one for $2000, go buy it.

Mr_Shiftright

oh I'm sure I could. It's not like it's a five window 50s Chevy or a Cameo.

fintail

This old thing doesn't look too bad

steine13

My apologies to those who also frequent RWTIV; here is a detailed description of the car:

steine13, "Real-World Trade-In Values" #31066, 2 Aug 2006 11:16 pm

Pictures: http://www.msu.edu/~steine13/pri.html

Obviously, it wasn't meant to be a "project car" except for the muffler... But do y'all think I could get, oh, $2,900 out of it as it sits?

Thanks in advance,
-Mathias

ghulet

It's a 2001, right? I'd say you could get $4500-ish, eh, especially with gas at $3-3.50 a gallon, and likely to rise.

I thought this was funny, mostly because I just bought a good running, decent looking, undamaged, loaded '95 Saturn SL2 with a couple of minor issues (broken sunroof and radio, might need tires and brakes at some point) for $400, so this price struck me as a bit of a pipe dream for the seller:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1994-saturn-sl_W0QQitemZ220014601823QQihZ012QQcat- - - - egoryZ80752QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

This thing is for the junk yard, IMO (how many people are going to take an engine that might be OK out of a trashed '94 Saturn to put in another one that's worth ~$1-2k in good condition?).

steine13

Oh I dunno... IF you have a junkyard that'll come get it and IF you could use parts out of the car, $100 might be "ok".

The engine, of course, is a bit silly, unless you've got all the time in the world.

-Mathias

Mr_Shiftright

Hmmm...I'd say you paid over retail which is not so good, but on the other hand, I think the 'blue book' doesn't really take into account that most cars under $2,000 today are trash.

So I think you can sell this car for what you paid but you'll have to have the buyer seeing the car and you'll have to put your polish on the sale--getting $2900 will require some effort but is do-able. The problem is that between the high price and the "drop" and the stickshift you have narrowed your pool of buyers with THREE factors.

Does that make sense?

steine13

Unfortunately, it does make sense.

If it really gets on my nerves, I'll run it through the local auction and cut my losses... without the drop, it would not only be a very good deal, I'd keep it. Good deal in terms of what you get for the money, not $$$ paid vs. cash value.

These cars are boring and plain, but they are fantastically well built and will run forever.

-Mathias

jlflemmons

Soooo, how hard is it to go back to stock suspension? Any chance to track down previous owner and see if he has the parts? I know some of these guys hang onto the stock pieces to replace before sale. Shame that didn't happen on this one.

A buddy bought a '68 Vette that had a lot of engine and suspension mods for racing. The seller had all the original parts oiled and wrapped in heavy paper. Buddy put everything back to stock and had a stock '68 427 Vette to play with for a couple of years before selling.

british_rover

I am thinking junk yard run to find a prizm that got hit in the rear and one that got hit in the front. Just pull the parts off of the junk cars should hardly cost you anything.

andre1969

looks like it would be a nice complement to that '78 Catalina I posted earlier. Heck, considering how much I like these things, if it was closer I'd be tempted to give it a look.

On the subject of LeManses, I want you guys' opinions on something. Tell me which grille you guys prefer...

This:

Or this:

Reason I'm asking is because personally, I've always preferred the first style, which is the base '76 LeMans. I always liked the look with each insert having the one bold horizontal bar that gave it kind of a crosshair look, and with the background kinda blacked out. I bought a set of these inserts to put on my car. Now it wouldn't be "correct", but when you figure my '76 is wearing a '77 Grand LeMans grille, it's not exactly "correct" as it stands now!

The more I look at the front of mine though, the more I like its grille, too, so I've been reluctant to change it.

gsemike

the second one. Don't change it

lemmer

The selection in Atlanta is usually worth the 2 hour drive from Birmingham.

This '75 911S appears to have an SC engine. Maybe not such a bad car.

This 944 looks a lot better than what I have seen locally. I love the color combo.

qbrozen

Man, I think that Dart looks sweet for the $$.
Once again ... Seattle ... Arrggggg!

Mr_Shiftright

Yep, that Porsche owner has ditched the dreaded 2.7 liter engine and put in the stout and sturdy 3.0----good move--this transforms the car into something worth buying perhaps.

SPEAKING OF PORSCHES --- so this guy in the neighborhood decides he wants to put a Porsche 928 GTS engine in his clean but weak-motored '86 928.

So he finds one on eBay---"all checked out", "runs beautifully" blah blah....and he BUYS it for $8,000 without hearing it run (it's already out of the car).

Well, he gets the engine and sends it to my friend's shop. They notice a lot of sealant on the oil pan and say "hmmmm....let's have a peak in there before we install".

Inside there are pieces of connecting rod and bearing---one cylinder has a shattered rod and ruined crank throw and you can see where other bearings were so hot they have discolored the bearing caps.

Nasty business on eBay, hah?

lemmer

What is he gonna do now? How about call Renegade and get a Chevy 350?

qbrozen

What kind of feedback did the seller have? how far away does the seller live? Did your friend use paypal? Did he actually complete the transaction on ebay or did he buy it outside of the auction?

Mr_Shiftright

Don't know the details. He's not much of a friend so I'm not comfortable interrogating him. I think he was way too reckless, he just got blinded by seeing EXACTLY what he wanted.

There is a theory of brain behavior which suggests that desire distorts the object of that desire. He wasn't looking at what was there, but what he wanted--otherwise he might have noticed the numerous irregularities on that engine that I was able to spot easily just looking at it....the oil pan goop, and WHITE valve covers painted badly, etc.

Even if he has some legal recourse, it's a huge pain in the butt to deal with this.

lemmer

This Range Rover looks to be a money pit of epic proportions. Would you take it for free?

qbrozen

I think I'd take it for free. It would make a planter that my whole town would envy.

oregonboy

Hey, you already have the inserts, right? How much trouble is it to swap them? If not too difficult, I'd do it just for the heck of it... swap them back if you don't like it.

For the record, I like the simpler base grill. It's cleaner and less "fussy". It also "visually-widens" the front end of the car. My $0.02

james

andre1969

It's not hard to swap the inserts. Basically, you just have to get up behind them from under the car, with maybe a 1/4" or so socket and undo 4 little nuts per side.

If I did it, it would basically make my car look like this instead of this.

Heck, they're simple enough to swap out that I guess I could just change them back and forth, whenever the mood hits me.

fintail

Good rig to deal with inconsiderate drivers

qbrozen

What a boat! Its a nice looking classic ... but what's it worth even if it was restored? My guess is not much.

I wonder if my wife would go for an El Camino if I told her it would be perfect for those Home Depot and dump runs. Then, when she's not looking, swap in a 454. hehe.

Yeah... Mint condition but I have no pictures of my '74 280 Benz. Just a bit of effort when selling your car would be nice.

I've always liked these. Too bad this one is already past its expected expiration mileage.

andre1969

I REALLY like that '61 Caddy. That's another in a long list of cars that I'd love to own someday. And crap, it's in New Jersey, so I can't use long distance as an excuse to dismiss it! :surprise:

I have no idea what something like that would be worth, fully restored. Maybe $15-20K for the nicest one in the world?

qbrozen

Exactly what I was thinking ... which is why I believe $5k for THAT one is too much.

I mean, if there truly is no rot, its a nice place to start, but the inside needs to be gutted and completely redone. That won't be cheap. Then, of course, you've got the rechroming and a new paintjob (which i imagine would be pricier than usual on such a large vehicle).