Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

qbrozen

ok, so someone around the corner from me put a pretty handsome car out for sale, but I have no idea what it is. My first instinct said Lincoln, but the nose doesn't seem quite right.

its overall very similar to this:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/71-LINCOLN-MARK-III-VERY-STRAIGHT-CLEAN-SURVIVOR_- - - W0QQitemZ320020318008QQihZ011QQcategoryZ6305QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

BUT, on this car, the headlights are 4 round lights with no covers (unless they are just not closed) and the center grille is straight across in the front (not a v-shape like this one). i also don't believe it has the tire carrier out back.

Any thoughts?

british_rover

Didn't thunderbirds of that era also share the Lincoln Mark series chassis??

andre1969

I wonder if that '66 Valiant is actually one of those Canadian Chrysler Valiants? IIRC, they didn't sell Plymouths in Canada back then (or ever, maybe?) but for some reason they felt the urge to take the Dodge Dart and sell it as the Chrysler Valiant.

The price is definitely an eye opener. If it were closer I'd actually be tempted to look at it. I remember about 13 years ago, there was a local guy with a running '65 Plymouth Valiant 2-door sedan, total stripper except for the larger 225 slant six and torqueflite automatic. Didn't even have a radio. It was originally a pale blue, but had been brush-painted this color that looked like a combination of burnt charcoal and mud. But hey, he would've let it go for 50 bucks! I was tempted, but back then an additional car meant about $500-600 per year more in insurance, and I had just gotten out of college and wasn't working full time yet.

andre1969

Didn't thunderbirds of that era also share the Lincoln Mark series chassis??

I was thinking Thunderbird too, but back then the T-birds that were on the same platform either had hidden headlights (the earlier ones) or had a beaky front-end, courtesy of the same guy who started that trend a few years earlier at Pontiac, Semon "Bunkie" Knudsen.

Now the earlier 1967 or so T-birds are flat-faced, and look like this with the headlight covers open.

Back in the late 60's, before they went to hidden headlights and got too neoclassically pimpy, Lincolns in general had a fairly flat, clean front-end. The Continental (non Mark) coupe looked like this

For 1972-76 the T-bird was practically a clone of the Mark IV. Here's 1972 T-bird

qbrozen

definitely none of those.

i need to drive by it again. I was browsing through ebay this morning, and I could not find anything else that was as close as the Lincoln I posted, so maybe it DOES have those details and I was just driving too fast to take it all in properly.

Mr_Shiftright

I agree, it would be a fair price -- if it didn't need a paint job. But it costs at least $5,000 to paint a car decently these days, so my feeling is why not just buy one all painted WITHOUT having been in an accident? The C4 might be a lot of performance for the $$$, but it's a pretty nasty car to drive everyday and not terribly durable externally (powertrain is great). The C5 is so much better. You have to remember they made a LOT of Corvettes every year, so these cars, especially when old, are a dime a dozen, and they generally don't age well.

Mr_Shiftright

CARFAX-- be REAL careful of CARFAX---I have found *many* cars that were badly damaged in the past and there was no record whatsoever of this damage on CARFAX. Recently researched a Ferrari Modena that had sustained frame damage, and it showed clean on CARFAX. So that would have been an awful mistake, to buy that car based on what CARFAX said.

british_rover

Yeah I have seen a few cars that I know were hit, either the customer told me so or I could just see the repair work, and they did not show up on carfax.

I have noticed this more often recently then in the past do you think Carfax is maybe letting more vehicles slip through the cracks.

lemmer

I could be wrong, but I don't think anyone is under any obligation to report to Carfax. I think most insurance companies report stuff, but a lot of car repairs (especially minor damage) bypass insurance.

Carfax is just a starting point in the search for accident or other damage to a car.

qbrozen

I also could be wrong, but I think insurance companies don't report anything. I thought i heard or read that carfax gets their info from DMV, who I think, in return, works off of police reports?? Maybe?? So, in other words, no police report, no carfax record??

Mr_Shiftright

Oh I have personally researched vehicles I KNEW had major wrecks that weren't on CARFAX. Aside from that Ferrari with $32,000 in frame damage, there was a '95 Miata that had been hit three times with a total of $22,000 damage, and a '96 BMW that had been in two accidents with $18,000 damage or so.

so we aren't talking minor fender benders here. CARFAX is better than nothing but if you assume it's the end all and be all, you could be very VERY wrong.

qbrozen

ah. right from the carfax site.

Accident Data:
Damage reports from accidents (selected states only)
Police-reported detail

so there has to be an accident report. Personally, I've never filled out an accident report.

Mr_Shiftright

I do know that that Ferrari had an accident report (I saw it) and it was a no show on CARFAX.

qbrozen

must not be in one of those "selected states."

at least, that's the answer you'd probably get from carfax reps.

british_rover

My old Discovery demo was a frame damaged and TMU car that did not show up on Carfax when we first got it. It was not till months later that all of a sudden all of this additional info popped up.

qbrozen

I'd be hard pressed to come up with a scarier scenario than buying a German car that the owner believes is "maintenance free."

whaddya mean i gotta change the oil? its maintenance free!

qbrozen

This seller has been listing these same 3 cars for weeks and has not dropped his price even $1. (i think i posted the benzes a while back).

'88 caprice

'88 300E

'84 300D

andre1969

It's hard to tell from the small pics, but other than the dent on the front fender that '88 Caprice doesn't look bad. And on the inside, either there's a shadow on it or the driver's seat bottom cushion looks dingy/stained. I wonder what all is *really* wrong with it? :shades:

lemmer

As it turns out, I had no idea what I was talking about.

I wonder which states are included.

qbrozen

ok ... i don't wanna exactly be sexist ... but what women does this guy know?? I ever tell ya about my sis driving her car for DAYS with a noise before coming to me to ask me to take a look at it ... the noise was the valves tapping from having almost NO OIL!! Or how about my wife who can't even tell me when her last oil change was? Or says things like "some red or yellow light has been flashing on the dash since yesterday. What's it for?"

Looks to be in nice shape. But, what is that? Maybe double fair value?

This could have been stored in a climate-controlled garage for 20 years and it STILL wouldn't be worth the asking price!

AHA! An actual project we can discuss! So what do you guys think?

andre1969

to properly pull off the look and I never let my hair get long enough to slick it back, but for some twisted reason I like that '87 Firebird! Only way I'd ever get into one is if it's a V-8 model, and even then, with my height and my back problems, I doubt it would be very useful to me.

lilengineerboy

The guy with the 318 is hosed because a 325 *shouldn't* be more expensive enough not to get the beautiful smooth 6. Also he mentions how low maintenance it is and then says its been rebuilt.
The 325i looked okay, just priced unrealistically. I don't understand when private sellers ask more than Edmunds TMV retail.
The 325 "project" is an ES not an IS. The ES has the ETA motor with a 4500 RPM redline. Great for longevity, you're never going to float the valves at 4500 RPM, and those pistons have gone up and down about half as many times as in an I motor, but eh, not so speedy.
Its comfortable enough to drive to work and stuff, and gets reasonable fuel economy, but not a whole lot else going for it.

qbrozen

interesting info. What exactly is an ETA motor?

4500 redline? ugh! i think i'm no longer interested.

now ... lemme get my bimmer terminology straight ... es and is are coupes? just an i means sedan?

qbrozen

oh. never mind. i found this page:
http://www.pelicanparts.com/bmw/techarticles/JF-Tech/BMW_Designation_faq.htm

so coupe and sedan aren't actually designated by the letters. Seems odd.

lilengineerboy

Well, yes and no. The E30 and E36 (84-91 and 92-~98) 3 series BMWs have an S for coupe designation and C for convertible. Hence a 325i is a sedan and a 325is is a coupe while a 325ic is a convertible. Come to think of it, I think the is was an option package on the coupe although I have never seen an i coupe that didn't have the s. I think it was '87 where they dropped the 'e' and it was just 325. The 325xI was AWD, and I don't know if the coupe was the 325xIs or not.
For the E46s, I am still all mixed up too.
Clear as mud?

xwesx

I love how the owner touts the "reliability" of this car, then the last statement in the ad is this:

miles 50,000 on rebuilt

Uh-huh. :lemon:

qbrozen

hmmmm... well, how bout this '85 318i coupe(note the lack of an S)?

Or this '85 325e coupe?

There's lots of those examples. However, so far, I'm unable to find a 4-door with the S. Hmmmmm....

qbrozen

found this one during my ebay search for this designation mystery.

High miles, but it seems priced right so far.

Unfortunate seats, though. Set of Recaros would take care of that.

lilengineerboy

Sorry its just the E36 that follows that designation. For E30s, the "S" was an option package on coupes (M-level seats, steering wheel and shifter and an "aero" kit)

fintail

The market on these continues to slowly fade...could be a fun toy

Black hole

Mr_Shiftright

You don't want a BMW 318 ever. IMO BMW's most unfortunate creation.

69 E-Type 2+2: Oh yeah, the ugliest E-Type ever made and with an automatic transmission that doesn't work. Can you say "sale-proof"? Try $5,000 and say thank you.

Model T -- damn they're gettin' cheap. I always wanted to build a Model T Speedster.

93 BMW -- those are 1996 prices buddy!

jlflemmons

I don't know about where you guys live, but down here you can bet the field mice have homesteaded this one ...

Mouse House

jlflemmons

Lemon Law, anyone?

jlflemmons

2005 Accent

xwesx

The interior of that car is amazingly worn out for "only" 188K miles..... :surprise:

Mr_Shiftright

That XJ6 isn't worth $75. What are people thinking? Doesn't run, needs interior, needs body work, looks like hell, and he wants $1,000 for a car you can buy in Pebble Beach condition for $2,500.

Go figure some people.

Instead of free Bibles, they should have Price Guides in all hotel rooms.

fintail

Big beater

Possibly the most atrocious thing on Seattle CL

lemko

Women care for cars better? Yeah, only if they have a husband or boyfriend doing the maintenance for them. I gotta admit my girlfriend does at least keep the interior of her cars pretty decent, but the exterior would never get done without me. Forget any mechanical repairs or maintenance.

british_rover

My wife is the same way except forget the part about keeping the interior clean.

andre1969

usually get to the interior of a car, anyway? Through the HVAC ducts? My buddy with the two Mark V's got an infestation in his "good" one, which he had been storing at a friend's garage. They chewed on his center console, which I think is a pretty rare piece on those cars, and pulled some of the carpeting loose in the trunk and built a nest behind it.

Maybe I should start investing in some mouse traps for my garage? So far the only critters that have really invaded it are wasps, ants, spiders, and lizards. The wasps pretty much fry themselves in the window sills and I think the spiders and ants kinda keep each other in check. And I think the lizards are kinda cool. I have no idea what the ants are finding that's so interesting...maybe sap from the fairly fresh lumber?

lemko

Did anybody see "Mythbusters" last night? They were trying to figure out if a car could be so smelly as to be unsaleable. They got a 1987 Corvette and placed two pig carcasses in it, sealed the car, and placed it in a shipping container for two months. They then removed the car from the container and challenged a professional cleaner to get the stench out of the car. The professional cleaner was able to remove most of the smell with a special formula that breaks down the enzymes that cause odor. However, he wasn't successful in removing the entire smell.

They then tried to sell the car. First a woman rejected it outright. A guy from the junkyard offered only $500. They did sell the car to another man for $2,000 for parts.

Mr_Shiftright

To be fair they should have picked a car worth more. It's pretty hard to sell an '87 corvette even WITHOUT pig carcasses rotting in it for much more than $2,000. Edmunds true market value software prices an '87 coupe, automatic, in average condition with 125K miles at $2,650. All things considered, I think they got a damn good price for it.

fintail

I thnik they can get in through the dashboard somehow, yeah,

My old MB specialist bought a really nice looking W123 300D that had been stored in a barn. Mice got into it, so it was bought as a parts car, as the rodents completely destroyed the wiring to the point that the car was far beyond redemption. Pretty sad.

And LOL @ the pig carcass Vette...indeed, find something more desireable to test.

michaellno

I would love to find one and get it into good shape. Found the following picture via Google:



I was going to get it when she passed on, but my mom and uncle decided to sell it.

Would be a great old cruiser now....

oregonboy

Grandmom must have had a bit of a wild side in her day. Nice looking older car.

james

oregonboy

So Shifty, what exactly do you have against the BMW 318(s)? I've always had a fondness for the 318ti (hatch), although I've never owned one.

I expect that gas prices will eventually reach a point where one might gladly trade away the silky smoothness and effortless power of a BMW 6-cyl. for a coarser, weaker, but more economical 4-banger... wait a moment... I think I answered my own question.

james

fintail

67 Mercury?

Monterey I guess

Quite uncommon these days I imagine

Mr_Shiftright

They underperform in every way possible I think. They are like de-contented 325s and it shows.

michaellno

Yep, '67 Monterey. 390 V8, bench seat. My grandmothers car was that blue color originally, then she had it repainted at Earl Scheib ("I'll paint any car for $99.95!") a cream color. Still had the blue vinyl seats. I remember the trunk being huge!

Was allowed to drive it to Dodger stadium when I was 16 or 17 - it was about a 50 mile drive on the LA highways. My dad kept giving me advice about lane changing and maintaining a constant speed.

fintail

Very similar car to my first car, a 66 Galaxie 2 door HT, also bench seat and 390. My car was a very dark blue with a light blue interior. I got it when I started driving in 1993. Horrible mileage, always a carb problem, but I had duals on it so it was nice and loud, and it could spin the tires pretty easily.

I remember before I started driving, looking at a showroom 67 500XL with low original miles, something like 40K...the guy wanted something like 8K for it back then.