Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

jlflemmons

how to advertise a car with no information.

jlflemmons

rust bucket special

Mr_Shiftright

Hmmm...a VW 1500 cc engine and a 200 mph speedometer. Where exactly IS the JATO assist?

230SL -- that piece of junk isn't worth $9,000. Gee, no interior and dirt piled on top of it---such a deal! Somebody needs to tell him you can buy a nice 230SL for $25,000. FREE would be about the right price if you wanted to come out whole on this car.

Well like I always say: "asking prices are the exercising of your First Amendment Rights!"

gsemike

THE MOTOR DOES HAVE A VERY SMALL KNOCK IN IT. IT NEEDS TO COME OUT TO BE FIXED. I DONT KNOW WHY IT HAS THIS PROBLEM WITH ONLY 35K MILES ON IT. IT IS DEFINETALY SALVAGABLE. I GOT AN ESTIMINATED $1000 TO TAKE OUT THE MOTOR & REINSTALL IT. PLUS ANOTHER $1000 TO FIX IT.


Maybe it has the knock because of the way the guy beat on it. There's no such thing as a "very small knock" that requires the engine to be removed and there's no way he got a firm $1000 price to fix it.

If he can get 10, take it and run

Mr_Shiftright

Yep, sounds like an easy $5,000 worth of repairs. These are such junky cars, one wonders what else has been beaten to death by the previous owner.

gsemike

The car looks sharp and has some impressive upgrades, but HE WANTS 17 GRAND AND THE CAR HAS AN ENGINE KNOCK!!!! Maybe without an engine knock, he's be looking at 13 or 14.

Take your bath dude and learn a valuable lesson about dumping so much money into that car.

british_rover

I finally managed to get in touch with the judge and we are going to check out the Range Rover tomorrow morning at 10 AM tomorrow.

Pictures to follow.

And now some craigslist.

For andre to haul his fleet around.

SVX with no mileage and a file photo.

Same BMW that has been on craigs list for three months now...

Jag that might not be a nightmare

Alfa

Might be an ok AWD Talon.

Always liked these but too much money.

Hmh an ok looking corvair.

Not the appropriate color for a jag

Overpriced hybrids will be the new over priced diesels

Franken Jag

Looks like it might be a good Alfa 164. Always liked how these looked. Not sure about the price though.

Hmhh No rust but it has new floors. Trail truck only but might be ok for that.

Mr_Shiftright

Alfa 164 -- I really don't think listing everything you had to do, and everything that still has to be done, is such a good idea. It sounds like this car is falling apart---which sounds about right.

Prius owner is high on battery acid....a first gen Prius out of warranty on miles? Hmmmmm...now THAT is risky...who's going to fix these things? Mike the Mechanic down the block? Don't think so.

Non-selling BMW: sellers have to realize that Kelley Blue Book is a pie in the sky price. They should be looking at Edmunds True Market Value.

bumpy

If you're going to get a first-gen Corvair, '64 is the year to go for. In typical GM fashion, they were more or less sorted out by the final year (as sorted out as any car can be with an underdeveloped swing-axle suspension, anyway).

british_rover

E-Type Jag project whats your vote?

Worth it for 900 bucks.

Potential Rally car.

fintail

Maybe a good parts car of an unusual open top tank

Good looking C36

Uh that's more than a "dent"

Mr_Shiftright

E-type----shame about the non-original motor but the car might be worth it. It needs EVERYTHING so you'll be in for a long haul and a lot of money, but, when finished, the car will be worth a handsome amount....but alas, you'll take a hit for the wrong motor, maybe $10K loss. It's going to cost you $50,000--$60,000 for a decent E Type anyway and $90,000 for a Pebble Beach car, so you have some room here....not much though. I'd say the car is a "wash"...with good luck, you'll get out what you put in, but if they find a bent frame or a bad crankshaft or transmission, well, it could get dicey.

These cars are VERY difficult to restore. Not a job for the weak of heart.

gsemike

That's a shame about that dent. I don't know if that quarter is unique to the convertible, but if the car is otherwise sound (which it looks) it's worth saving.

The car is probably more of a cruiser than a collector but that factory 429 has to count for something, right? There was a Jewel music video where she was zooming around in one of those is a really nice blue color with a perfect white interior. The car was pretty much stock except it had weld wheels on it I think and it looked really sharp.

There's nothing better than a pretty girl in a convertible.

lemmer

Trying to catch up...

What did your friend do to fail immediately?

gsemike

"Non-selling BMW: sellers have to realize that Kelley Blue Book is a pie in the sky price. They should be looking at Edmunds True Market Value."

I've been looking at Acura CLs and found the the KBB was lower and closer to reality than the TMV. I'm looking at a 2003 CL S. The ask is 13,900. The TMV was over 15 and the KBB was 13.4.

That BMW looks great but the mileage is scary on a European car.

lemmer

Kelly private party is decent, but their retail prices are outrageously high to the point of being worthless.

british_rover

I left my digital camera at home but it wasn't worth taking pictures of anyway.

It was a nice pale blue color at one time but electraloysis blisters had formed over most of the aluminium body pannels. Rust blisters had formed over the steel quarter pannels.

Opened the passenger front door and lifted up the carpet could see right down to the ground. :sick:

Maybe the frame is ok??

Nope I closed the door and part of the frame rail fell to the ground from the vibration. I stuck my head down and could see clean through both frame rails in some places.

The judge had also lost the key so couldn't even check to see if any part of the driveline was salavagable.

I doubt it was though as the Range Rover did have 327,000 miles making it the highest mileage Range Rover I have ever seen. That also makes it the third highest mileage vehicle I have ever personaly seen.

Nothing on it was salvagable which is really too bad. One of our wholesalers is going to do the judge a favor and tow it away for free.

Mr_Shiftright

Well it's always worth a look. Someone once gave me a BMW 2002 for free with a "bad knock"--that's true, there was a bad knock but its frequency tipped me off...it was a loose crankshaft pulley bolt. BADDA-BING, BADDA-BOOM, in two hours I had a great running car that I eventually shined up, put maybe $500 bucks into and sold for $4,000.

But ANYTIME you see a perforated frame rail, just walk away. Even if you fix that one spot, you never know what will happen. I do know of one case where a rusted Mercedes 220 cabriolet was hit and the car broke right in half---driver was seriously injured as a result.

british_rover

Yeah the wholesaler that went with us was afraid that if he sat down in the drivers seat it would go right through the floor.

Honestly I think I could have cut the car in half with a sledge hammer and an ax it was so rusty.

fintail

I suppose if you could knock the price down to a grand and do the work yourself, it could be viable. But I think the most pristine versions of that car struggle to get to 10K, so you'd have to be careful or make it a labor of love. Sad seeing it hit like that...I never like to see old cars wrecked in modern times.

Mr_Shiftright

It's just natural attrition after all. Old cars have to be junked sooner or later, we can't keep them ALL around. Sometimes WE get to make the choices, and sometimes accidents and resale value get to make the choices for us. Not many people are going to repair a car that isn't worth much but is seriously damaged. Even the best insurance company won't pay you more than it's worth to fix it.

qbrozen

so i drove by that mystery car again. Its definitely a Lincoln. It did, in fact, have the angled grille and continental spare hump.

Its a real nice lookin' car. My wife doesn't even want to hear me mention it, though.

fintail

These are rare, but hard to tell how far gone it is

Fuselage convertibles are uncommon

fintail

Good old time junk hauler

Mr_Shiftright

neat old truck...but stay off the freeways.

xwesx

*salivating* Ooooh..... I could make really good use of that truck..... :shades:

qbrozen

interesting that the inside of the engine compartment is the same color as the bug he's got in the bed. Not really sure what the significance is there ... i guess just coincidence.

and does the bug come with it?

lemmer

'59 vette for only $29,000. This is the cheapest driver I've seen. You would probably lose out trying to restore it. I think I would at least have to do something about the upholstery.

jrosasmc

What year was that Range Rover you looked at a few days ago? Geez, I didn't know those old Rovers could rust that easily! From reading your description of the vehicle it seems as if they rust as bad as old Toyota pickups.

On the other hand, I don't believe Volvos from the same vintage rust as bad as Range Rovers. I expect that my '96 Volvo sedan (which is not driven in winter) will last a long time without developing any rust.

Mr_Shiftright

It's hard to sell a bastardized older Vette. You can buy decent period-correct ones (maybe not the matching engine and trans, but the correct engine and trans) for $40,000 that haven't been butchered with later engines and automatic transmissions. He's going to have a hell of a time selling it at that price I think. Bringing it back might be possible (not matching #s though) but here again, you can buy a very nice matching #s '59 for $60,000--and then you've got something of value for the money you spent.

au1994

interesting and what I expected. So what would be a fair price?

The insistance on originality with Vette's puzzles me. If this was a convertible Mustang the owener would be applauded for ripping out the stock 289 for a built 351 or 302.

british_rover

It was a 1987 or 1988. The older Rovers did have a tendancy to rust and I think part of that can be blamed on the British Steel of the time period that was just not so great. The other problem is that most of those vehicle were bought to drive around in nasty weather and in New England that means driving through nasty snow and salt slush.

This particular Range Rover did have 327,000 miles on it and the Judge told me that he drove it all the time no matter what the weather was and nothing ever stopped it. He finally parked it several years ago when he got his new rover and his old one had too many miles to be worth anything. I guess at one point it was parked inside and then he moved it outside and on his property that is very wet all the time that was the kiss of death.

Mr_Shiftright

It's hard to price a thing like that. Personally I think the car is a parts car at this point, but some would find that too severe. I suppose I'd appraise it at $22,500 for insurance purposes but I would never recommend anyone buy it for that much. I'd pay maybe $5,000---$10,000 for it and tear it apart and start all over.

I don't know why Vettes became the object of such obsession with originality. Even vintage Ferrari and Jaguar buyers don't care as much as Vette buyers---perhaps because Ferrari and Jaguar engines often blew up during sanctioned racing and also the Ferrari and Jags didn't match chassis VIN to engine ID#s, while Corvettes did.

Oh, vintage Mustangs can suffer from non-original engines but not as much because they made gazillions of Mustangs--especially the coupes 65-66...so who cares how you chopped up a car only worth $7,500? But a car potentially worth $60,000----that's another story. And if you modified an original Mustang fastback K code 4-speed, well, you've lost a lot of value there.

Interesting that the seller thinks his car is worth more than a project car, but I feel that a correct matching #s project car would be worth more than his running one.

lilengineerboy

This made me spit Pepsi out my nose

318ti, or the buttless Bimmer

a lot of these cropping up lately

Something tht might actually be a classic

It's brother

spent 2 months at 2400 now down to 1950

The one I really wanted to post but can't find it now was a late 70s/early 80s Chevette that had been abandoned in a garage. No rust but the car was worthless new and in the best of shape.

lilengineerboy

Aren't you guys lucky?
OLD CHEVROLET CHEVETTE :sick:

No, its okay don't thank me, I know you appreciate it :P

andre1969

that Chevette appears to be some kind of luxury model, what with the cloth insert and carpeting on the door panel. A true find, indeed!

I saw a Chevette yesterday. I had a friend drive me out to the shop to pick up my '76 LeMans, which needed brake work (both rear wheel cylinders, master cylinder, and a few other odds and ends), and on the way back a primer-gray Chevette with a spray-paint black grille was behind me for awhile. Not sure of the year, but it had rectangular headlights, which I think they went to for 1980?

qbrozen

do they not have junkyards where he lives??

andre1969

What did your friend do to fail immediately?

The driver's test in Maryland is fairly simple, on a closed course. Basically they just make you drive around, don't hit the cones, stay on the correct side of the yellow line, etc. At one point they make you do a 3-point turn in a ~30 foot square area, and they also make you do a parallel park in a 6x25 foot spot.

At the very beginning of the test though, you start at the top of a hill, go down a long straightaway, and then have to make a really, really sharp right turn, without crossing over the yellow line and into what would be oncoming traffic out on a real road. My buddy drove down to that turn, stopped at the sign, and when he made that turn cut it really wide, going well over onto the wrong side of the road. Cop failed him immediately.

We tried to find another car for him to take the test in, but the only thing we could come up with was his cousin's Mercury Lynx, which had a cracked windshield. That was a safety violation, so they wouldn't let him drive in it.

Mr_Shiftright

RE: Chevette: "are there no PRISONS"? (Dickens' Christmas Carol I believe).

'84 Lincoln Turbo Diesel....now who made the motor in that car? That can' be an American mill.

BMW 635CSi -- hmmm...tires, alternator, muffler...now there's a quick $1,500 to $2,000 bucks, assuming worst possible scenario.....

au1994

Oh man, woe be unto the person that chops up a K code fastback to make a Shelby clone!!

Mr_Shiftright

While I am generally liberal in some areas, in that case i would advocate the death penalty.

au1994

was that Lincoln a 5 Speed? Couldn't tell from the pic.

318--Buttless and gutless.

Ah, the Fiero "lovely to look at, a b**ch to behold."

I think there is some $$ in those late run Bug convertibles. Maybe 8k top dollar, for the nicest one around.

andre1969

but I think Lincoln got that inline diesel engine from BMW. It went in mainly the bustleback Continental sedans, but a few of them ended up in Mark VII's as well.

I wonder what kind of "real world" fuel economy it really got.

jlflemmons

would be the '88 GT w/5spd. Totally different suspension from earlier years and was the precursor to the '89 that never went to production. The '89 had already been EPA certified with a 2.3L Quad Four at 185HP.

lilengineerboy

I agree. The two popular Fiero swaps I know of are the Quad4 and a northstar (I think the Olds had a smaller V8 that worked?). The Quad4 was really a great motor now that I think about it, a little coarse but very competitive in power/economy/longevity, IIRC.
The first Fieros had Chevette front suspensions in the front (remember they were high efficiency commuter cars...) and a x-body front end in the back (think Chevy Citation engine cradle/trans etc flipped backwards).
This wasn't that uncommon. My beloved Audi Quattro rear suspension was 81-83 Audi 5000 front suspension turned around, tie rods and all. Of course all those bushings and wear items are NLA so the 82-83 Quattros are in a bad situation.

lemmer

My neighbor is in a selling mood. He has a 1999 Boxster with 31K miles - silver with a reddish interior. I don't know all of the options, but it has a five speed and nice big wheels and tires. It is basically like new. The local Porsche dealer does all service and does it at the prescribed intervals. CarMax offered him $18,000. He is thinking of buying another car from them, so he would get a sales tax benefit of close to $600, so clearly my offer would need to be at least $18,600 to interest him. I also know he still owes about $20,500 (not my problem, of course, but will likely color his decision).

What sayeth you experts?

bumpy

I did find this:
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/bymake/Lincoln1985.shtml

bumpy

The description is worth the price of admission:

I "DO NOT" know the year, the actual mileage, if it starts, if it runs, if it is jet powered, or if it actually is a time machine.

I wonder if he'll look through the garage for the 4th wheel if you throw in a extra $10?

lemmer

I was wondering the same thing. It would have looked better with a flat temporary spare bolted on.

qbrozen

BMW 635CSi -- hmmm...tires, alternator, muffler...now there's a quick $1,500 to $2,000 bucks, assuming worst possible scenario.....

now here I was thinkin it looks pretty good to me, but I try not to be the "worst possible scenario" kinda guy.

He did the expensive stuff, as far as I can see. I could probably do the tires, alt, and muffler for maybe $700-$800.

The only thing I worry about in that list is that the muffler ain't just a muffler. Kinda like my Alfa. The mid pipe and muffler were in bad shape, so I had those replaced. But I guess the newfound backpressure was just too much for the rest of the exhaust to handle. The O2 [non-permissible content removed] cracked open and the catalytic developed sieve-like properties. That's like a $450 section of the exhaust. Luckily pop is a welding wiz. I'm hoping she holds up for a couple more years.