Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

lilengineerboy

380 SL needs to be a dual chain motor. I had a chat with a vintage MBZ dealer in Cincy of all places, and he waxed philosophical for some time about the 380 being a great motor as long as it was a double timing chain motor. I think that change occurred from single to dual in '82, so that may have it or it may not.
Paul Padget's Vintage Sales (they advertise in Hemmings a lot) was the place that I spoke with. They had a lot of SLs when I was there.
Since I know there are Cincy people on the list, the place is off of Reading by where the Perkins used to be in Roselawn I think.
Paul Padget's Vintage Sales

oregonboy

(and gas has even gone down some)

A very temporary state of affairs. Gas will only go up. Sanctions against Iran? Who holds the big stick?

Shifty went from a V8 Porsche to the smallest Scion. A much better choice for the times ahead. To try to get back on topic... if you want a project car to actually DRIVE, (as opposed to a yard ornament), think small.

Shifty, don't you live somewhere in CA? Interesting environmental legislation passed there recently.

james

fintail

One for british_rover

british_rover

Ohhh that will have the twin carb set up on the 3.5 V8 and will be a bit touchy. Its true it can climb about anything till the carbs cut out from the tilt although they did modify the carbs so that they can handle more tilt then normal.

I wonder if it is a manual. A lof of those grey market cars were manuals.

If I was going to get a a non FI Range Rover though it would have to be a two door model. I wouldn't want to mess with the carbs without the added uniqness of the two door.

Mr_Shiftright

Yeah, California is usually cutting edge, sometimes bleeding edge. But you know, if you don't fail, you can't ever succeed.

Yep, the 380SL must have the dual chain or you got problems.

The real problem with the V8 SLs is that if something big goes (engine or trans) you might have to junk the car....especially the engine, since rebuilds are $12,000 and up.

That's RIGHT! Buy a 560SL and do it right! The last and the best of 'em.

andre1969

that Custom Cruiser has on it to warrant a replacement tranny and engine? Those things had Olds 307's, which were pretty tough engines. Tougher than the Chevy 305, although I've heard the 307 is more prone to sludging if you neglect it. I guess anything will sludge if you neglect it long enough though! One of the managers here at work had a 1987 Electra Estate wagon that he abused the heck out of, and he did end up destroying the transmission. And I think the engine did finally sludge up at around 160,000 miles. But he also destroyed a 1984 Corvette in similar fashion, and he has a 2000 F-150 pickup that he had smoking like an out-of-tune Diesel in about 4 years.

Heck, if gas prices get too bad I might have to downsize from my pickup (EPA estimate 14/16) to something like that Custom Cruiser (16/24) for my heavy-duty needs! I've actually thought about doing that from time to time, but then there have been all the times that I've needed my truck, such as hauling dirt, brush, firewood, refrigerators, lumber, plus when I moved 3 years ago, that a station wagon, no matter how big, just wouldn't quite fit the bill.

lilengineerboy

That Custom Cruiser would easily tow U-Haul's largest trailer which is like 6x12 or something. Even a Subie wagon can tote the 5x10.
Unless you are doing those jobs weekly, you still may be better off with something smaller with a hitch and reasonable towing capacity (even a minivan is rated at 3500-5000#).
I get 30 mpg going to work and back, and ~12 pulling a small trailer behind a midsized car to pick up furniture, gardening supplies, etc.

fintail

Something to make those passive-agressive trophy wives in their dumb SUVs think twice about their next move

british_rover

Oh man if I had some serious land to use that on for only 15,000 dollar hell yeah.

british_rover

As we were talking about the old Rover V8 earlier.

Brief history of Rover V8 on the british side.

qbrozen

"if you don't have at least an acre, i won't sell it to you."

hahaha. Hell, I have an acre and it certainly isn't enough room to drive a tank around on.

Mr_Shiftright

I remember from my Army days that an American tank got about 3-5 gallons to the mile. (not a typo). Of course a Prius owner could stretch that a bit.

british_rover

You think a Russian tank does better or worse?

Mr_Shiftright

Probably better. I suspect it is a turbo diesel, whereas the tanks I worked on were multi-fuel and older design...

Not that fuel mileage matters, since your life expectancy in a tank on a modern battlefield is about 4 minutes or something like that.

I'd love to have that tank. I would use it only for good, not for evil......mostly.

british_rover

Hmhh I wonder how much it weighs...

42 tons.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-72#Weight

Man you need a tractor trailer to tow it.

fintail

I'd use the tank for purposes I think are good, but others
might find evil

Could be useful to someone

Not many of these left, these things rusted away even in Seattle

jlflemmons

SL500

jlflemmons

TMV puts this under 16K in Austin. Still seems like a nice car for the money.

jlflemmons

Not a '72, but a '71 in bad shape

And that is a Cutlass S, not a supreme.

Mr_Shiftright

It's about fair retail, maybe a tiny bargain.

500SLs are hard to unload. They are rather dull cars and very expensive to repair.

Miles are good on this one, though, so that's a big plus.

jlflemmons

The little 'ding' in the side is interesting. There are several good PDR shops in Austin that could make that disappear for <$100. Seems like if that were the only cosmetic flaw it would be worth fixing.

gsemike

We've seen some crackheads on this board (and thank you for all of them) but this guy takes the cake. Geeeeeeeeeez.... 7 GRAND!!!!!!!!!! You should get a pretty damn nice driver for 7 grand. We often joke about a price having an extra zero, but this one has two extra zeros.

Mr_Shiftright

I wonder how many times he'll wiggle his phone cord before he realizes there's another reason it's not ringing...

benjaminh

Looks sharp in black. But overpriced at $9000 it seems to me, given the condition. On the other hand, it's a lot of car for the money, and a lot more practical than that other tank. Are those floors really completely flat on these models? Why is is that todays fwd cars don't have flat floors?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110026066020&fromM- akeTrack=true

fintail

Doesn't look bad, cheaper than an Impala

Decent looking old truckster from the same seller...didn't lemko have one of these once?

benjaminh

Actually the Caddy is not black, but a pretty dark blue. And an absolute bargain compared to the Olds.

fintail

That blue interior sure creates a contrast...I almost want to like it...

The heap in the ad is just so-so... what's the car to the right in the shot with the old pickup on the left? I spot a Morris Minor in the background too

Kind of an Andre-mobile

Mr_Shiftright

Yep, I'd agree---overbid at $9,100 by about $1,000....if that vinyl roof has RUST under it (which is kinda looks like), then it was overbid by $2,000. So we have the typical "10% over high retail" eBay bidding going on here. That's why auctions are considered "emotional buys" unless you are a cold-hearted professional.

39 Ford Panel Truck---I was going to say "oh, he'll get $3,500 I think" until I read where there was no motor or transmission....then it seemed too high...it's a pain having to dig up and track down all those pieces and accessories and brackets and whatever....well it's probably destined to be a street rod anyway...YET ANOTHER street rod.....

benjaminh

The original owner is putting what must seem almost like his child up for sale. Impressive devotion. My first grade teacher had one of these back in 1971, but I think it was a 70. He took me for a ride in a few times. They were great cars, I thought. They were the ultimate in functional cool (although I wouldn't have put it in those words back then). I still think so today. I've never driven one, but I can imagine that they're a blast to drive, in part because they are free from the gunk and junk on today's cars. The owner seems quite straighforward about the problems, but some of them do seem worrying. I wonder how far this one will go. My guess is someone out there wants a 2002 in this condition with this one-owner history pretty bad, and that it will go for a fair amount, but maybe I'm wrong. The acceleration can't be that impressive compared to today's cars.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290025564086&fromM- akeTrack=true

andre1969

Wow, that '85 LeSabre brings back memories of my Grandma's '85! Almost sounds like the same set of circumstances in getting rid of it! We put it in my name when she lost her license (Macular degeneration, nothing exciting like vehicular homicide, eluding the police, or anything like that :shades: ) and my uncle and I used it as a spare car for awhile. Kept it for about 3 years, until it just needed too much work and was one car too many. When the brakes went out on it one weekday morning, I decided that was the last straw.

I do miss it sometimes...it was a comfy car. In the final year or two, they actually put '84 Electra seats in the LeSabre Limited, so it was a little extra-comfy. I don't think I've ever seen an '85 LeSabre with leather.

They're also like the easiest car in the world to break into with a coathanger, so the dude's sister's bf must not be the sharpest knife in the drawer. Even though the windows have frames, there's enough flex in them to get a coathanger down in there and just pop the lock. I know, because I locked the keys in mine once! Looking back, when I was a kid, I remember my Mom driving the car once, and she took me to the barber shop to get my hair cut, and locked the keys in it. She called Granddad to come out. We were only about 2 miles away, but he still wasn't overly amused.

Oh, one other thing I was going to comment on about that '85 LeSabre...why would you put $2000 into a $700 car, only to turn around and unload it? I could understand putting $2K into an otherwise worthless car if you're going to try to get some more life out of it. After all, if it gets you 5 or 6 more months use out of it, it's pretty much paid for itself. But to just turn around and sell it then, that doesn't make much sense.

andre1969

pinkish/lavender-ish car to the right in that picture of the Ford panel truck, something about the roofline makes me think of a '56 Mopar 4-door hardtop. But then it looks too small for that. And I don't recognize the rear of it. Looks like it had a little oval/vertical taillight and a slight hint of a fin that ended short of the rear of the car. Any '56 Mopar would've had fins that came out to the end of the quarter panel.

fintail

The car to the right of the panel truck certainly looks European to me, almost like a sporty coupe of some kind. Mystery

This could be a good hauler, looks better than 99% of these I see

This has to be worth it

andre1969

Heck, I like that '74 pickup AND the '71 Impala. Maybe I should fly out and pick up the pair!

Mr_Shiftright

BMW 2002 -- strange car in a way----so many miles! And looks like engine is getting tired once again, as they will after about 100,000 miles. It's kind of hard to justify paying a premium price for a car that has a badly leaking steering box and starts up like a mosquito fogger every morning...but it still looks better than most of the 2002 rats you see for sale. I'm guessing $3,500--$4,000 is all the money for this car. A lot of it isn't stock and/or original.

they are fun to drive but they are very stiff hard cars.

The Tii is the one to have if you can find a nice one and you can afford it....figure $10K for a good one.

benjaminh

RE: BMW 2002. Strange car, and unusual owner. You're right--probably not worth more than 4k, but my guess is that the owner wants more. Or maybe what he wants is someone who will love it as he loves it.

The bidding on this Toronado starts at $500. This was the top of the line in 89, and probably had a list price of about 30k. A book I have says that only 6143 of these were made (and because of the small volume I bet GM lost big on every one). You wouldn't be likely to run into anything that looks like it very soon. It's interesting how small these Toronados got. They look strange to me, almost like toys. With the 3.8 engine, I bet it gets to 60 pretty fast. The electronic dashboard is a bit goofy.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/OLDSMOBILE-TORONADO-1989-TROFEO-1-OWNER-98129-MIL- ES_W0QQitemZ180024618516QQihZ008QQcategoryZ31865QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

jlflemmons

talk about Rare! I didn't think there was a 454 made that didn't burn oil! If I recall correctly, that engine in that truck should get somewhere around 8-9 MPG, if you take it easy.

fintail

You could probably do a lot worse for $2900. I should start a business selling local old cars to the east coast.

Ooh he lowered his price...I wonder if Maryland would be considered a "reasonable distance"

"diesel luxury"

re: the Trofeo...a good friend of mine had a crazy (ex) gf who was gifted a pristine 1992 model from her great aunt. It was the same color as that linked car, and really loaded up. The girl hated it, refused to drive it at all at first, as she wanted her daddy to buy her a RX7, but she had to give in when he finally refused to bow to her demands. I am sure she has destroyed it by now.

andre1969

I actually kinda like that little Toronado, but I liked them better once they added about a foot to them in the rear, around 1990 I guess. I think they did it a year after the Riv. Those shrunken Rivs, Toros, Eldos, and Sevilles were poor sellers, most likely because they looked too close in size to the N-body Calais, Somerset Regal, and Grand Am, car which sold for about half the price. I think 0-60 for something like that was probably around 9 seconds. I can't remember if they were offering supercharged versions yet. They had a lot of low-end torque so they'd throw you back in your seat quickly on hard acceleration, but they most likely had tall gearing, which kept them from being too quick. Probably fairly economical, too.

I always liked cars with hidden headlights, so I think that's the main reason I like those shrunken Toronados.

andre1969

You're not going to be satisfied until that Toronado is parked in my garage, are you Fintail? Y'know, if I had the time to kill, I'd actually be tempted to fly out there and get it! Hey, I've probably done more wasteful things with my time than that.

I remember seeing a Toro like that for sale one year at one of the Carlisle events, and I think they wanted something like $7-8K for it. Admittedly it was very nice, but still. And it was a '77, so it had the 403, which ain't gonna be as gutsy as a 455.

fintail

You should come out here, somehow rent a car hauler, and ship enough back to keep that garage stuffed to the gills.

andre1969

My buddy with the two Mark V's actually flew out to New Mexico to pick up his first, and drove it back. The second one he got was near Chicago, and I think only had about 11,000 miles on it, so he had that one shipped.

I wonder how much it would cost to ship something like that Toronado to Maryland? My biggest fear would be that it wouldn't look nearly as nice in person as in the pics. Pictures can lie.

The biggest chance I ever took, I guess, was with my '76 LeMans. I drove out to Cincinatti, Ohio to get it. The seller sent me so many detailed pictures of it though, and described every possible little thing that was wrong with it, that there were no surprises. It was a little scary though, once we did all the paperwork and he gave me the keys, and the thought sunk in that here I am, 500 miles away from home, with a car that rolled off the assembly line when I was 5 or 6! One of my friends had gone out with me in the Intrepid so I wasn't TOTALLY alone, but it was kind of an intimidating feeling.

fintail

Yeah I wouldn't want to travel to purchase a car unless I saw very detailed pics. Too much to go wrong.

benjaminh

Starting at $2,500, and so far no bids. The 4 door was, of course, blasphemy against the T-bird name. But if you can get past that, this looks like it's in pretty good shape. From the condition, I think it probably does have only 49k mi--doesn't look like 149 to me. Says there's a "little" rust underneath, but doesn't give pix. The 429 engine, if it's working properly, should give it good pickup. Starting in 67 they had hidden headlights, like the Toro, and I think it looks sharp, but this style doesn't have much of a fan base. Visibility must be rather bad out back. My grandfather owned one just like this, and I got to ride in it once. It was a luxobarge with comparatively compact dimensions for the time. For the rich exec of the late 60s who needed to carry people in back once in a while. Could be a lot of car for the money, but it won't ever appreciate.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1968-Thunderbird-Suicide-Door-Cold-Ac-429-V8-NO-R- ESERVE_W0QQitemZ200023826189QQihZ010QQcategoryZ6240QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

toomanyfumes

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/crazy-cutlass-on-26-inch-rims_W0QQitemZ2000224128- 96QQihZ010QQcategoryZ6405QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Mr_Shiftright

the seller forgot to use the appraiser's standard formula for evaulating customs and rods:

Total Investment Divided By 2.5 = Value

fintail

Bigfoot Cutlass is in Vegas, shock! What a sad waste of resources.

Not pretty or fast or sporty, but I think it is kind of neat, probably because I have a toy one

Could a car be more French?

I'm partial to this color on a 126

lemmer

Drove another 944 Turbo.

Mechanically very nice and up to date service with receipts. Interior kind of dirty, but nice dash and seats. Everything works. Exterior is solid, but has some evidence of body work most of the way down the driver side, but here comes the fun...

He started out advertising it as a Turbo S, but recently changed the ad to a normal Turbo. Seller says it is running 22 lbs of boost for 300 hp. Says he has verified at Barber Motorsports track that it will go 0-60 in 4.3 seconds. It will apparently go 200 mph, but he has only had it up to 175 mph in 4th gear (while he was whooping up on a supercharged Camaro). It felt fast, but not 300 hp fast.

It has 911 "Cup" wheels - says he paid $968 EACH for them. Apparently he ran out of money at that point, and put on Nitto tires. Has recent Bilsteins that cost $700 EACH. Clearly lowered (seller says no) with one rear wheel with much more camber than the other, front tires bald on outer edges with almost full tread everywhere else. Says he bought a new 911 for comfort, but this 944 he is selling will blow away his new 911 in a straight line and in the twisties. I could go on for paragraphs about what a blowhard this guy was about the car and his personal successes and riches, and don't get me going on about the Mr. T starter set this geriatric road racer was wearing.

He started out the conversation with "I am 100% honest and I expect the same from you." The guy totally turned me off from the car.

benjaminh

C'est bizarre!

bumpy

Fintail could buy this, ship it across the continent, flip it, and clear at least $2500.

This one, too.

Conversation starter (which needs a starter).

"Is that a Geo?"

Andre needs a new old truck, part 37.

Der Blingenvagen. Ewww.

Bonus listings:

Somebody would like this. I have no idea who.

Andre needs a new old truck, part 38.

Why is this on Craigslist?

Mr_Shiftright

What nonsense (most of it). He isn't going 200 mph with 300HP in a 944. There are cars with 500HP that can't do that.

The HP you need to jump from 150 to 175 is not linear, it is exponential....ditto 175 to 200 mph, but MORE exponential. He might *mathematically* to 200mph with his gearing but he isn't actually going to go that fast. He'd be lucky to bust 150mph.

22 lbs of boost??!!! Can you say KA-BOOM in 60 seconds?

However, it is true that a well-sorted 944 Turbo could very well match or exceed a 911 in handling and possibly braking...but it won't "blow it away".

Find out what he's drinking and send some over.