Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

fintail

It's a gasoline powered snail, but I still kinda like it...you don't find this condition too often

I almost kinda like that 79 Newport...color suits it very well, and it looks pristine.

qbrozen

I'm not saying I'd buy it, but I like that Newport a helluva lot more than that Mirada.

which really ain't saying much.

qbrozen

I'd still take that over the Newport and Mirada put together.

andre1969

I mentioned that junkyard Mirada to the folks in my Mopar club, and honestly they weren't much help in talking me out of it. But then whaddya expect from a Mopar club! :P I was able to pretty much talk myself out of it though. One guy sent me an email saying that he helped a buddy of his sell a Mirada convertible on eBay a few years back, and the bidding stalled out at $1100...AND it was supposedly in pretty good shape!

I also got an email from a guy who had a 1980 Cordoba LS for sale that I looked at two years ago. Turns out he STILL has it and says that if I decide to save the junkyard Mirada, if I want it for parts he'll make me a great deal!

Also got an email from a guy out in Idaho who's interested in the rims on it. He wants to put them on a Dart.

fintail

Now that I look at it and think about it...I think that old W114 is a 6 cylinder, not the 4 I assumed (MB had 230 badged 4 cyl cars later). So it might not be bad. You could do a lot worse for the money. Pretty much the same engine from a late 230 fintail I believe. It sure looks like a fintail engine.

michaellno

It's a gasoline powered snail,

Yep, and my folks owned that car's diesel sibling ... a '72 220D. A whopping 65HP it had, and the most resistant throttle spring known to man.

fintail

Heavy metal

Mr_Shiftright

Well we told you it was fairly worthless as an investment :surprise:

Let's face it...that car has had 25 years to become even remotely collectible and it hasn't happened...which means, it never will. You can put it in the Simca pile.

xwesx

Speaking of fintails.... I saw an old fintail this morning. It was (or, at some point had been) white, but looked to be relatively unloved. A shame really, considering that is the first one I have seen in Alaska.

benjaminh

This would be quite a project car. I can't tell if it's worth saving (or possible to save) or not:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1964-MERCEDES-BENZ-220-SE_W0QQitemZ130036281871QQ- ihZ003QQcategoryZ6329QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

PS Andre: That red Mirada wasn't so bad looking.

benjaminh

On ebay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2000-Buick-Park-Avenue-NO-RESERVE-NR-MUST-SELL_W0- QQitemZ160039183025QQihZ006QQcategoryZ6139QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem#- mainImage

This car is pretty close to one that's offered at a local dealer. The local car is also a 00 with 80+k miles, and is offered for $6999. They've cut the price by 1k in the last few days. It's a lot of car for the money. But I think it would be a project car in the sense that it would probably start needing major repairs. The electronic climate control on my 88 Olds 98 has started to go on and off again, and it may not be long before the thing goes completely dark. Then we'll have no ac, no heater, no defogger, rear defroster, etc. This Park Ave. would be something like the Olds 98. It even has an updated version of the same engine, and as many problems as we've had with the Olds nothing has ever gone wrong with the 3.8, and it delivers good power and good economy.

But the Park Ave is a major boat. It's substantially bigger than the Olds 98, and I don't think I really want a car that big.

It's a lot less than a new Accord for c.$22k (EXL model), which would likely be our other choice, but like our Olds it's likely to be a major headache. Still, the Park Ave is slightly appealing. My kids would love the gadgets--like lighted rear vanity mirrors. But we don't really need them.

british_rover

Only problem with that 250 dollar Subaru is that in the class I need to race in I have to have a two wheel drive non-turbocharged car.

Novice drivers can only race in two wheel drive non-turbocharged cars untill they get enough experience. After a few races then you can qualify for more advanced cars.

xwesx

Could not get that one to load. This is not the one, is it? A lot of (physical) car for the money, but eh.... so much gadgetry. Scary how much depreciation has gone into that car already. Whomever buys it better figure that whatever goes in is a sunk cost... not much salvage value coming back out of that beast!

fintail

Sad about that fintail in Alaska...is it still on the road? A diesel or 4cyl fintail is a pretty utilitarian machine...I bet one could survive there.

Could it have more lights or badges?

Nice grille too.

boomchek

Did these Benzes have biggere fins later on in the years? From the pics it doesn't look like a large car but I saw a similar looking coupe on the street in rough shape and I've been wondering what model it might have been.

fintail

The sedans had actual fins, the coupes had nothing more than those nubs. They aren't large cars, they are just proportioned to look larger than they are. Quite elegant for a 1961 model year debut.

The coupes exist in several models - 220SE, 250SE, 280SE, 300SE.

qbrozen

Interesting.

Seems kinda backwards to me. I mean, shouldn't you have MORE experience to drive 2wd cars off-road??

I guess its a 2-way street. You can get out of more trouble with AWD, but you can also get overconfident and get into more trouble, too. *shrug*

fintail

Could be a good driver for the money

Mr_Shiftright

Seems like a very good buy if it's not screwed up in some way.

xwesx

Sad about that fintail in Alaska...is it still on the road?

Yes, I should have said that I saw it on the road on my way to work... It was not noisy or spouting any smoke, so I'm sure it still has some life left in it, just not cosmetically loved (much like my own vehicles).

xwesx

This does not seem like a fair trade, but if I had a snow machine or ATV, I would be tempted to trade just to be able to use it to help me finish my house! It would be quite helpful to have a boom to reach the eaves and gables..... Overkill, mind you, but helpful.

xwesx

This car is a screaming deal!

:surprise:

xwesx

And a real head turner at that! Well.... with a *little* work, that is....

ghulet

...my mom's '88 is dead (her words, not mine). It would only start in neutral for about a week, now won't start at all. At least it's sitting in her garage, but she refuses to put any more money into it (if only she had done that about five years ago), even though I tried to explain to her that if she put, say, $500 to get it RUNNING again, it would at least be saleable. Anyone have any idea what this could be?

So she's driving a rental car, looking for a replacement (wants another E-class, but there aren't that many made this century for under $20k in Indianapolis). I'm trying to steer her (still, this has been going on for years) into something with a bit less financially dramatic, to no avail. She's, um, a bit high-maintenance.

fintail

Were there any transmission problems? The neutral thing confuses me...it has to be something in a computer or connected to the transmission, like maybe it thinks it is in gear? I've never heard of that issue before.

Around here one can easily find a late W210 (maybe 01-02) E-class for around 20K, and I've seen many W211s for 25-27K. OR just have her buy that old one I linked in that nice shade of blue for $1500.

fintail

I am sure the elements up there are hell on 40 year old paint and metal. Probably an uphill battle keeping it looking good. They just aren't worth enough to preserve, but they can be used every day, so sometimes they become older than normal drivers.

I've seen footage of diesel fintails still in use in rough middle eastern areas...they can take it.

qbrozen

good grief, I almost want to save this poor Ghia ... if only I didn't feel it were overpriced.

qbrozen

how about this for your rally car?
http://newjersey.craigslist.org/car/220028106.html

qbrozen

Only drummers need apply

bumpy

Lemko Special

last of the freeway wagons

might be a nice ride at half the price

I didn't realize you could get the V8 in this body

lilengineerboy-mobile

good to know

british_rover

Ohh I like the Galant VR-4 those were always neat.

On the Last editions of the SHO they came with a small, 3.4 liter I think, V8 that I think was the predecesor to the current 4.4 liter Yamaha V8 in the XC90 and new S80.

lilengineerboy

Wow I can't believe I got called out like that...and I can't believe it was dead nuts on. I'm just glad its far away.

The only think I would be worried about with a Galant VR4 vs a Talon/Laser/Eclipse is the VR4 had 4 wheel steering, but I assume there is aftermarket support to eliminate it if desired. They all need new transmissions. Its 195hp out of the box, a couple of bolt ons and exhaust and you're at almost 300, which is about the limit for the rest of the car (trans, diffs, etc).

Its a $1500 car though, and the interiors typically aged pretty well so they all look okay inside. They go on ebay at $3000 with the reserve at $5000 and they sit there with no bids.

Thanks for thinkin' of me

british_rover

Yup several companies make the four wheel steering elmination kits for the VR-4 Galants just like they do for the HICAS(SP???) steering on Nissan 300ZXs and 240SXs.

british_rover

Hmhh yeah that protege could be a good novice rally car. I have also kept an eye out for Escorts as well since they are similar.

They key with rally cars is that the AWD cars are much, much faster then their 2wd counterparts. For rally racing it is all about traction so a 2wd car with 200 horsepower and a 2wd with 300 horsepower keeping everything else equal will have essentialy the same time over a stage.

The extra hundred horsepower just does not matter as the 2wd car cannot put that much power down.

Just check this out...

Group 5
This is the Open Class of two-wheel drive. The rules are essentially the same as Open Class, but there is no inlet restrictor. The fact that there are only two-drive wheels with which to put power down is restriction enough. Adjusted displacement must be between 2.4 and 5.1 liters.

Group 2
Rules are the same as group 5, but the adjusted displacement is 2.4 liters. This is an attractive low-cost class, but it is destined to be a ClubRally-only class. ProRally rules will be combining these two classes in the near future. The California Rally Series has run a combined Group 2/5 Class for years, and to date the championship has always been won by a group 2 car. More power doesn't always make two-wheel-drive cars faster.

Source for above info

You can only get into so much trouble with a 2wd car because you just can't put down enough power to go all that fast. Once you add AWD to the mix though very dangerous speeds are possible and you need lots of experience to handle that.

lilengineerboy

British Rover,
Thats exactly what I was thinking. I knew of the HICAS eliminator for the 300ZX TT, I figured there would be a Galant VR4 one as well.
As far as 4ws cars, I think it was the Honda Prelude, the Nissan 300ZX and 240SX, the Mazda 626 Turbo/MX6, and the Galant VR4 were the late 80s/early 90s recipients of the technology (not counting trucks and industrial vehicles and stuff).
Any more come to mind? VW kind of faked it by having bushings that allow castor changes during cornering...

british_rover

The 3000GT VR-6 had 4ws and a couple of different Civics had it as well.

Some Saabs had it but I think it was more like the VW adjustable bushing thing.

T5 platform Land Rovers, so LR3 and Range Rover Sports, I think have a similar system.

When you go into a sharp turn you can feel the back wheels track strangely and very sharply. It is about the only way a vehicle as large as a LR3 can have a turning radius of about 37 feet.

Mr_Shiftright

Sounds like the owner beat the crap out of it, though.

'73 BENZ--needs paint? How about 1/3 of the asking price?

The 220 gas is a good little car, though--easily the best Benz of the early 70s in terms of reliability and cost to own. A very unfussy car.

fintail

I like this...nice pics, model that doesn't exist, and steering wheel off a newer car

boomchek

Yeah I don't even think there were 290se's in europe.

How about that Taurus on Craiglist. It says "V8 inline engine" :confuse: :confuse:

lilengineerboy

Didn't they make a cheaper version like a 260E or something? They were going after the 5 series with the little six (525i?). R&T called it Vanilla Hagen Daz in thier article.

fintail

Yeah, no such thing as a 290SE (or a 290 anything since before the war). I'd assume it is a 260E, which was kind of a pointless thing only sold in 87-88 IIRC.

Europe did get a 260SE, which would be pretty underpowered.

Incorrect steering wheels are a little worrisome.

boomchek

probably replaced airbag (if they had them back then), or rebuilt.

fintail

Yeah that's my thoughts...towards the latter. I have seen some MB get a new wheel for an updated look....but never on a lowline W124.

lilengineerboy

I think this is too far gone

jlflemmons

price may be lowered to $4500, but that is still $4500 too much. What is this guy thinking? There is nothing left of that Porsche.

Mr_Shiftright

Pile of junk----parts car...if that....value? Maybe $750.

lilengineerboy

1. I know that one is gone but a lot say they need floors. My understanding was the floors are part of the actual vehicle structure. Replacing them, not so easy. How hard is it, same with rockers?
2. It seems like originally doesn't really account for much. Most of the 356s have modified motors. Is this true of later Porsches as well?
3. I think a 356 is going ot be too challenging for me, and it is actually worth something so I will be upset if I screw it up, but a 914 seems like it would be entertaining enough with a 2000 lbs and 100 hp (2.0l).
4. How accessable are replacement panels like rockers and floors for various Porsches? Other than Pelican Parts, where are sources for parts/info?
Thanks for the input.

Mr_Shiftright

The 356s and 911s are basically unibodies...they have no frames...so when the rust gets to B pillars and suspension hanging points, that's it, the game is over. You throw the car away, and any attempts to piece together a unibody is madness.

Originality counts a lot for earlier Porsches. Many 356s have 912 engines and this hurts value considerably. Getting any power out of a 356 is expensive, as they are pretty much maxed out engines from the factory. You can make them go reasonably fast (by 1960s standards) but then you create a less reliable engine...and that extra HP is pricey.

A well done 914 will run away from a 356, so it's a better choice in that regard..but of course is not nearly as valuable (maybe 1/2 the price of the most common 356 coupes at best).

Aftermarket for the 914 is good, but again, you don't want to deal with a rusty one, unless it's minor. This, too, is a frameless car. Downside of the 914 is a somewhat wheezy VW engine (but they can be built up to 2.2 liters), a clunky gearshift and limited engine accessibility. Upside is ferocious handling and very clever design (two trunks, targa top) and great gas mileage....and a lot of parts are VW shelf stuff. Transmission and front suspension is all Porsche,however, so pricey to fix.

Really your best Porsche for a first timer is a 1978-1983 911SC.

qbrozen

Speaking of this ... my latest and greatest thought is that I'd like to get a mid-70s Porsche once the lease on my car is up and we get my wife something like a Benz diesel to run as our primary car.

Anyway, the style I seem to like the best is the 912. First question, what is the difference between a 912 and 911? Second, is there such a thing as a 911 that is clean-looking like the 912? (i'm not a fan of the big wings)

I'm 2.5 years from really making this happen, that is if I don't change my mind by then, which I probably will.

lilengineerboy

The 912 is a 911 with the 4 cylinder out of the 914 instead of a 6 cylinder the 911 has. It costs the same to maintain and restore, has the same issues with rust, and has much less power and is worth less. It is similar to buying a used BMW E36 318 instead of a 325/328.
Also, mid-70s Porsches are not the way to go. 911 from that era (74-77 IIRC) used a motor that is considered not as robust as the other motors. If you want a Porsche I would go for pre-74 or post-77.
The wings are only standard on the Turbo model which you aren't looking at anyway. It was optional (but popular) on other models. It shouldn't be that hard to find a 911 without a wing.