Did you recently take on (or consider) a loan of 84 months or longer on a car purchase?
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/25 for details.
Options

Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

1140141143145146852

Comments

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I hope you put in a new computerized pump and not the old SU type with contact points. Authenticity be damned in this case! You can leave the old pump with dummyfuel lines on it.
  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    Oh no they put in the same style pump. Ordered it right from Rovers north.

    Not my call on that one since eventually we do plan to sell this Rover putting a ton of money into it is not in the cards.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Mighty pricey for an old Benz gunboat. Try $5,000 and be happy to get it.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    Yeah, it's a bit steep, and will only likely to appeal to enthusiasts as I believe the posers have all moved on to W140s and W220s are even falling below the 20K mark now. W126 people aren't plentiful.

    I think that's a great color combo though, needs nothing but Euro lights. Too bad it's not an 89-91 with the freshened interior.

    A BMW equivalent, more reasonable price...I kinda like it too

    It's getting harder and harder to find these type of cars in nice condition...of course, hardly anyone cares.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    The 733i is kinda slow and gas hungry. The 735i is a bit more modern and efficient, and I think less troublesome....also easier to get parts for.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    I'll admit I don't know much about period BMWs...other than that they all end up pretty trashed here.

    A money pit, just for you

    Was that checked cloth offered on US models? At least it's a manual.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Yikes, first year model 928. Some 928 freaks like these early cars (78-79) for their "purity". They were essentially hand-built. Lot of car for the money but it had better be a good one.

    water pump: $1,600

    Clutch $2,000

    radiator $1,200
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    I've always liked the 928, and those issues are the reasons why I'd stay away. Maintenance on those seems to make any old MB look like a Civic.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    There are three major areas where a 928 can hurt you bad...REAL bad.

    That's timing belt, water pump and clutch. Unfortunately, each of these items is inherently short-lived. So with the clutch (a twin-disk setup) you'll be in there for something every 10,000 miles. Water pump and timing belt, maybe 30,000 if you are lucky.

    The rest is mostly electrical glitches. Engine itself is indestructible, body integrity, etc, is strong.
  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Member Posts: 4,116
    That's timing belt, water pump and clutch. Unfortunately, each of these items is inherently short-lived. So with the clutch (a twin-disk setup) you'll be in there for something every 10,000 miles. Water pump and timing belt, maybe 30,000 if you are lucky.

    R&T did an "affordable exotics" article in the late 80's early 90's and they mentioned the 928 as a great Grand Touring vehicle but they actually suggested getting the MBZ 3speed automatic version for that reason.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    Are these more time or mileage related? So if I had one and drove it a few thousand miles per year, it might not seem too horrible.

    How are the automatics? Most I see are autos.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Automatics are good but they really kill the excitement of the car.

    The best 928s are the newest ones--they got rid of the twin-disk clutch and improved the timing belt---but on the downside they went to a twin-cam motor, so MORE complexity if you DO have to do anything in there. Also the later 928s are way, way faster.

    They are amazing cars for the money...fabulous GT cars, even by today's standards, but you have to be prepared to keep an exotic running.

    Low mileage, newest year possible---that's the way to go with a 928.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,736
    Someone should start up something like a dating service for car shoppers so they can match up those 1 or 2 people in the country who would actually CARE about such a car enough to pay this much for it.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Member Posts: 4,116
    Someone should start up something like a dating service for car shoppers so they can match up those 1 or 2 people in the country who would actually CARE about such a car enough to pay this much for it.

    That should go in Hemmings if they actually excpect to get something near that for it, or allpar or something.
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 53,350
    As embarrasing as this is to admit, I would be interested in it! Assuming it was pristine, had a 4 speed stick, and was about 5K cheaper. Other than that, no problems!

    I had one of these in my youth (a '75 IIRC, 6 cyl 3 speed X model). I'm sure though if I sat in one know it would be too uncomfortable to drive!

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    I sat in a Gremlin that was for sale at the fall Carlisle swap meet. It really was a nasty little thing, although I think the biggest problem for my comfort was its school bus-sized steering wheel, which was hard for me to fit under. I don't know how someone who's a bit more, umm, what's the politically correct term here? Horizontally-endowed? Yeah, that's it! How would one of them fit in it? :P

    I remember the seat being kinda low too, and unsupportive. And I don't mean unsupportive in your typical 70's car fashion...I've owned and driven/ridden in enough 70's cars to know this was bad even for the era! Since these things were basically compact Hornet 2-doors from the B-pillar forward though, I guess I'd still find the Gremlin more comfy than a "genuine" subcompact like a Vega or a Pinto...this thing was kinda like a compact front seat mated to a subcompact backseat.

    It might be kinda fun though, with the V-8, which I'm sure the seller meant to say 304, not 302.
  • jlflemmonsjlflemmons Member Posts: 2,242
    I hate to admit I worked at an AMC dealer when those little beasts were around. The 304V8 would have been a lot more fun if it would have been possible to keep the back end on the ground when trying to accelerate. I still remember driving a new 258CI inline six version with a stick on a dealer transfer. I was on a slight uphill stop in the rain and when the light changed, I absolutely could not get the car to move up the incline. Ended up letting it roll back down the shoulder until I could get a running start!

    The Gremlin was a sorry substitute for the American.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,736
    hahaha.
    i had the SAME thing happen to me in my Jeep with the 258 and 3-speed stick. It was icing rain, however. And, of course, I did not have 4wd engaged.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Well the Levi interior and V8 are "add-ons" to the dismal market value of this car, but still....I'd guess that $4,000 would be more than enough...even a fanatic Gremlin lover has no money...they're big spenders like Nash and Studebaker people LOL! Maybe a drunken lottery winner would pay $5,000?
  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    anyone that is in the Harford area around the weekend of November 17th we are bringing our 1959 Series II Land Rover to the Conn. International Auto show.

    In my opinion it is the cleanest example of any series Rover I have ever seen that has not had a frame replacment.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    So what does a GTS run these days?
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    A 928 GTS from the 90s? Probably around $25,000--$30,000 will bring a nice one home. That's quite a car.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    I figure, if one wants a 928, might as well go for the ultimate
  • boomchekboomchek Member Posts: 5,516
    Some people have no taste.

    2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX

  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    My Dad took me to a nearby sales lot that had a couple interesting cars. They had what I guess was a Euro-spec Mercedes 560 SL. It had the funky composite headlights instead of round quads. Or did the US versions of these end up getting composite headlights later on in their run.

    They also had a black '75 or '76 Coupe DeVille, and a gold/champagne colored '62 Bel Air 4-door sedan. In their little showroom they had an early 80's Rolls Royce...I forget the model, but the one that constantly gets held up as the poster child for automotive money pits. They also had a '69 Camaro SS, which they wanted $29K for. And a '64 Impala SS 2-door hardtop with a 300 hp 327 that they wanted $26K for, and a '77-78 Trans Am. It didn't have a price on it though.

    I asked about the Bel Air outside, and they said they were asking $5,000. What would realistically be a fair price for something like this? It was just a plain 4-door sedan with a 283-2bbl, automatic tranny. The seats looked okay but it needed new carpet, new sun visors, and the headliner was stained around the C-pillar area. It also had that typical "old car" smell. And I noticed evidence of a water leak in the passenger-side footwell up front. The outside looked okay. It had some minor rust coming through on the lower edges of both rear quarter panels. I'm guessing it had been bondo'ed at some point. I figured it might make a nice driver for about $1000-2000, but I know $5K has to be out-there.

    My Dad kinda liked the '64, although he'd much prefer a 409 and a 4-speed. This '64 did look nice at first, but looking underneath, it looked like someone had jacked it up in the wrong spot, right ahead of the rear wheel on each side. Most modern unitized cars can be jacked up here, as can most cars with perimeter frames, but these things had X-frames, so there was nothing really supportive there to put a jack under. The sharp ridge/seam where the lower part of the body and the underside comes together was smashed, and had some rust on it too. It also needed rechroming, although it looked good from a distance. Window seals were also rotted, and there was a crack in the dash. It was pretty well-equipped though, with air conditioning, power windows, an AM/FM radio, power steering/brakes, a wooden steering wheel, and even cruise control! The original window sticker read something like $3995 with shipping. It also looked like it had been repainted, and was riding on 225/70/R15 radials and what looked like late 60's Chevy rally wheels. Any ideas on what a decent ballpark price would be for something like this?
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    64 Impala SS-- Hmmm...rusty rockers, incorrect parts, marginal interior....and is it a real SS? Sounds like $9,000 would be plenty for it. The guy is totally out to lunch on the value of this car. Visit him frequently, he may be out of business soon. A clean driver (not a restored car, but one with none of the rust, chrome and funky interior issues) would bring maybe $15,000. A stunning restoration maybe $30K. So you can see he's bonkers.

    The 75-76 DeVilles are nothing cars, ditto the 78 Trans Am and the 80s Rolls. Beaters all. Sell them for whatever you can get.

    The 560SL is a nice ride. The Camaro SS value depends entirely on which motor and which transmission. Values can vary widely between a 350 automatic and a 396 with 350 HP and a 396 with 375HP. Also of course authenticity must be proven.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    Thanks, Shifty. So what would be a reasonable price on the '62 Bel Air?

    The Trans Am this guy had was actually in really nice shape, except for an aftermarket stereo system with speakers in the doors that destroyed the panels. I dunno what engine it had though. If it had a 400/403, wouldn't it have said "6.6" on it? Now that I think back on it, it didn't have the screaming chicken on the hood, so it may have just been a Firebird. It had a hood scoop that looked like it had lights in it!

    The Rolls had issues as well...rust on one rear wheel opening, a cracked leather interior, looked like it had water damage around the C-pillar area, and the rear window was cracked. The more I looked at it, the more I thought a '79 Granada was probably a wiser choice! :blush:
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    The 62 Bel Air? Hard to say but $2,500 sounds like more than enough. It'll never be worth very much even if you restore it. It is what it is---a utilitarian Home Depot version of the sexier '62 models that everyone wants.

    80s Rolls are beaters---they should all be recycled back into English teapots.

    The Trans Am and the Firebird for 1978 have different values entirely. I'd guess a clean decent '78 Trans Am should go for about $10,000; a Firebird coupe maybe $4,000.

    You know, when it comes to cars that have values under $10,000, it depends entirely on the condition....the gap between "clean and decent" and "needs stuff" is enormous with these "third-tier" collectibles, because restoration costs today say one thing and one thing only: "If it's not a really nice survivor, it's not worth restoring at all".

    One might say "Yes, but maybe in the future it would be worth more!"

    Not really, because let's face it, if a car hasn't gone up in value for the last 30 years, it's not likely to anymore. In 1995, a '65 Mustang K code fastback WAS worth something; and in 1994 a '64 Impala 409 was worth something. But gee, a 30 year old firebird barely breaking $4,000? Obviously, not until a glacier wipes out every older Firebird will this one be worth much.

    The Rolls has such punishing maintenance costs vs. value that...literally...a brake job, 4 tires and hubcaps and a small dent in the fender and the car is totalled.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    US 107 SLs never had composite lights, so that was a Euro car, or likely a US car with Euro lights added (I've seen many earlier Euro SLs, but never a Euro 560).

    All old Rolls sedans are poster children for money pits...no upside in almost any postwar owner/driver sedan. In 1981 Rolls went from the old Silver Shadow to the Silver Spirit/Spur. You probably saw a Shadow, those are the ones you can pick up for a few grand. I've seen worn Spirits/Spurs, but never a rusted one.

    There's a great 'Top Gear' clip where Jeremy Clarkson byus a neglected old Shadow for something like £2000, then drives it into a swimming pool.

    Ah, here's the clip
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Those cars are so pathetic. It's astounding Rolls could have pulled off that masquerade during the 70s and 80s.

    Now it's a decent car again, praise the lord (of the manor?)

    I think Rolls' undoing was two-fold. The lousy V8 they introduced and their chronic problems with undercapitalization, requiring the most bizarre improvisations in engineering.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    I think that if they could have pulled it off at any time, the dark days of the automobile (70s-80s) were the time. So many cars were crap, and there was more of a pretentious bent than today (in my eyes anyway) with all the pimped out cars and neoclassics, that these things were right at home

    It's amazing how Rolls has come back from the brink. What people will do to save a name.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Where you guys were. Now I know!
  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    Yeah we were hiding from yah.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Too late now!
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    that '69 Camaro my Dad and I saw today was a Z-28, not an SS. I dunno why I had SS on the brain! That should be a 302, shouldn't it?
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    That's it!
  • jlflemmonsjlflemmons Member Posts: 2,242
    Howdy, Isell.

    Yep, this is where we gather to dis the sellers of garbage and their drug induced hallucinations of value.

    That, and the true pearls that are sometimes found.

    Jim
  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    Could be an good potential rally car without the body kit and the coil overs adjusted up some.

    Civic

    Also has potential

    Our VW, Subaru and Volvo stores took in a couple of really cheap cars over the weekend. A couple of Escorts including one they own for ONE DOLLAR, an older 740 volvo and a few others.

    Going to check them out tomorrow.
  • gsemikegsemike Member Posts: 2,413
    Those Civics are about as good an investment as Mustang GTs or Monster trucks. You've got to wonder where all those late models engines that are ending up in early model Civics are coming from.
  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    Japan mostly. Strange mixture of very high labor rates, very high insurance rates and a bunch of other factores. Cars get very minor damage in Japan and they get totalled. Then since there is no room in japan for junkyards their is a booming market in exports of front clips, rear clips, engines, even whole cars.
  • gsemikegsemike Member Posts: 2,413
    I hear from a friend in the Queens Auto Crime unit that Civics and Integras are the most stripped cars. He told me a great story about how they followed a fluid trail from a dumped Integra to the garage of the guy that was installing the stolen engine into his Civic.
  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    Yeah I am sure a lot of the USDM engines come from stolen vehicles. Hondas are always going to be the most stolen vehicles since sooooooooooooooo many components are cross shared across the product line.
  • gsemikegsemike Member Posts: 2,413
    At least they got one of the bad guys. My cop friend in Queens Auto Crime said that they were called due to a dumped Integra on the street. So they find the car sitting there engine-less with a clear trail of fluids going not more than a hundred yards and making a right turn into a garage. They go over, lift the door and what do they find? Some dumb*** criminal in middle of an engine swap into his Civic. Good to see some folks get what's coming to them.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Those engine parts prices are hilarious. I couldn't buy a cotter pin for a Porsche for that money much less a set of pistons!! Geez, what do the Germans use, kryptonite?

    I've taken apart Japanese engines and they aren't cheap inside...of course I don't know about the metallurgy, but still the machining is beautiful.
  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    I am not up on pricing for anything on the aftermarket for hondas but I know there is a lot of cheap chinese parts floating around so that could be part of it.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,736
    oh... its been a while since giving an update on the mazda truck. This really wasn't SUPPOSED to be a project!

    anyway ... i'm not sure i even shared this much ... but she failed inspection a couple of weeks back. The big factor was "visible smoke" from the tailpipe. Ouch. Not a huge surprise since my father said that might happen. And, really, i went there specifically to fail so that I could be legal on the road in order to drive it to my father's house, etc. The check engine light was on, so I thought that was an auto-fail. Turns out that's only true on '96 and up. So they inspected it otherwise, which is where the smoke came in (and the brakes were not balanced - not a big deal).

    Let me give some background on the smoke situation. It clears up when driving, then burns clean for about the first 5 minutes of idling, then starts pouring out. So we're thinking vacuum problem, which means head problem.
    I've recently replaced the o2 sensor and cleaned the EGR, in addition to the obligatory full tune-up. Check engine light is now out.

    Well, finally got around to doing a compression check and it was amazingly strong and consistent. OK. So that indicates the rings should be good. Again pointing to the head (valve guide seals).

    So I went and pulled the head off yesterday. I delivered it to my father and he is going to pull some strings and see if he can work out a deal for a rebuild job with a vendor of his.

    I'm into the truck so far for about $1350. If I can get it to pass inspection and not have to put any more into it, I'll consider it money well spent. If not ... I made a big mistake. :(

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Think of it as tuition at "automotive university". ;)

    Yep, it does sound like valve stem seals or guides.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,736
    Think of it as tuition at "automotive university". ;)

    If it weren't for the wife nagging, it would be worth it. ;)

    I actually think of this as a refresher course. Its bringing me back to the weekend I spent home from college replacing the head gasket on my 4runner. 20 hours in a 48-hour period to get it done and back to monday morning class.

    its amazing how those things can stick with you. The experience I gained all those years ago helped me actually made fairly quick work of the mazda.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

Sign In or Register to comment.