Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

fintail

Not many cars age this well

Here's something you don't see every day

People like these things

Mr_Shiftright

Oh I'd love that Datsun 411 "SSS"--but an automatic transmission---ugh!

michaellno

Thanks for the link to that '67 Chevy .. I just used the NADA link in the ad to check on the value of my dad's '70 C-10 LWB. It has the 350 4bbl and a 3-speed auto.

Low value is something like $7700; high value is just over $29K!!!!

Given that my dad dropped something like $5-7K a couple of years ago to have it reconditioned (new chrome, remove all the rust spots, etc.), I think it would bring the latter number (or something close to it) pretty easily.

qbrozen

Datsun: just what the heck does this mean??
He has 4 doors, no carpet, rust & ALOT of original parts.

does it have rust or not??

i could take that to mean "it has no carpet or rust" but then that would also mean "no alot of original parts" since that is part of the series. So I think he means it has rust, but would you really advertise that??

fintail

Being a 1967 Datsun, I am sure it has rust, even in WA. Maybe the seller is really honest? Right.

I thought a SSS car would be really rare and someone might save it

I've seen locals asking 20K+ for really nice 67-72 4x4 GM trucks, but I'll admit it seems a bit steep.

british_rover

That link says all SSS had a 4 speed close ratio gear box. No auto offered.

fintail

Hmmm...maybe it's a prototype!

Strange that anyone would bother to rebadge a Datsun sedan...but they'll rebadge anything I guess.

Still a neat-ish little car.

xwesx

NADA Guides shows this truck to have a Low Retail Value of $8,525 and a High Retail Value of $29,475.

I thought he was just blowing smoke there! Hahah, I cannot imagine anyone paying more than $10K for a rust-free well-maintained truck, let alone close to $30K. Geez... people just have more $ than sense it would seem, but then this is also the NADA book we are referencing.... :sick:

michaellno

I know that before my dad did the 'restoration', he was offered $8500 for his truck.

The nice thing is that his truck is one-owner and has absurdly low miles on it for being 36 years old. I know that he had the engine rebuilt (top end only, I think) around 110,000 miles, and he probably averages less than 5K a year on it, even though it's his daily driver. Golf course, doctors office, grocery store, pharmacy, pawn shop -- all within 5 miles of where he lives.

It truly doesn't look more than 5-10 years old.

bumpy

'SSS' was the performance marker for various hot-dog Bluebirds over the years. I suppose some 411s might have made it over here as Datsuns, though I like this SSS better.

lilengineerboy

There are a number of business catering to VW bus/transporter/vannagon. GoWesty is one, there are 4 or 5 others I have used to help people source stuff. Volvo has IPD (which now does Subaru too). Criekies you can even find parts places to support the Geo Storm/Isuzu Impulse.

xwesx

Well, speaking of absurdly low miles, Mine ('69) has yet to break the 71K mark (just rolled over to 70K this summer). Yet, even if completely restored (which would require some minor body work, repaint, and new wood in the bed), I would think someone insane to offer more than $10K for it. Mine is still "fully" original though (so it shows some age). The furthest into the engine I have dug was to replace the carbeurator and fuel pump in 1997.

I will probably convert it to an electronic ignition when the most current set of points goes, but I will be sure to hang onto the original hardware.

michaellno

OK, you win ... 71K in 37 years averages out to something like 1900 miles a year.

When dad bought his truck new, mom told him that it was the last truck he was going to have. Guess he showed her! I think the truck cost him something like $2900 and he used it as a truck for most of its life .. dad was a firefighter but he also did a lot of part time carpentry work, so the bed had tools and wood in it constantly. He also owned a boat for quite a while, and he used the truck to pull it up to the lake to fish.

The only mods that I believe he's done is convert it to an electronic ignition and added some custom mufflers .. you can hear him a block away and we always knew when he was pulling into the driveway.

I need him to get some pictures taken so I can post them.

Mr_Shiftright

the only trucks even approaching $30K are either heavily restored from the 50s or truck-rods, off-road specials, etc. with gazillions of dollars put into them. I couldn't imagine any stock 70s truck being worth more than $10,000 either....maybe a restored jewel could pull $15,000, I don't know.

Sometimes price guides are very silly, or they get confused.

The rule of thumb is: "a classic car price guide puts you in the right decade of pricing". This is especially true of classics. If you aren't skeptical to the tune of $10K either way with a classic car price guide, then you're often going to be misled IMO.

fintail

Electronic ignition...all I can say is...do it.

I went with that advice on the fintail over 5 years ago, and it is such a nice change. No more stupid points to adjust and clean, the car starts right up and runs pretty perfectly in any weather (right before I converted it the car used to act up in the damp), it's such a nice and easy mod.

andre1969

Electronic ignition...all I can say is...do it.

I had planned on doing electronic ignition with my '68 Dart, but before I could get around to it the darned thing quit running!

I wonder if electronic ignition would benefit my '67 Catalina very much? As it is, it's cranky to start in the mornings, but that's because it has a problem with the choke. Once it's up and running, I don't see a difference between it and my '76 LeMans or '85 Silverado, both of which have electronic ignition. Seems pre-EI Mopars were always a bit more troublesome though, especially in cool, damp weather.

Maybe GM just did a better job with their points-and-condenser systems than Mopar did? Perhaps that's why Mopar went to EI first? :surprise:

Mr_Shiftright

They're just more maintenance free, the electronic units. I doubt you'd notice any other benefits unless you were driving it hard. The electronic ignition eliminates "point-bounce" at high REVS.

xwesx

I appreciate all the feedback on the electronic ignition and, Shifty, on the price guides! I have replaced the points once, at about 48K miles, but I have a whole distributor with electronic ignition sitting in my shed along with a 4-barrel aluminum intake and Holley carb (all used freebies). I am having zero mechanical problems with the truck right now, so I have not played with any of them. I like the idea that my truck is still fully stock and has the original 307 (they seem to typically have 305s and 350s). As far as starting - never any problems. In cold weather, as long as I plug it in at temperatures below +10F (it has a circulating block heater and oil pan heater), it will start up even at -55F without more than 4-5 cranks. As far as its record goes, I consider it my most reliable vehicle.

Micheal, the mileage is a little skewed, actually. It had 29031 miles on it when I purchased it for $500 from the original owner in June 1997. She and her husband had used it from 1969 to 1973 with its Banner camper, when they parked it in their yard and let it sit. I sure wish I had thought to take photos of it before I moved it... I'm sure it would have been one of those "kill it now!" verdicts were it posted here! Between then and 2001, I had it up to about 62K, and since then it is used almost strictly for "real" truck use, so miles are back down to 1-2K a year. Come next summer, I hope to retire it as my grandfather plans to give me his '76 Ranger 2500 4x4. We'll see though - I still have this darned house to finish (too many projects, but not all vehicles!).

This is probably my most recent (9/11/06) photo (that includes it!). Not a stunner any more by any stretch of the imagination, but certainly still in good shape.

andre1969

For some reason I was thinking that EI gave a hotter spark, which made the spark plugs ignite more cleanly? Any truth to that? At least, I remember hearing that with the old points/condenser you should change them and the plugs every 12,000 miles, where with EI the interval for spark plugs was boosted to 30,000 miles.

Of course, unleaded gas and improved spark plug technology might've had something to do with it as well.

bumpy

For some reason I was thinking that EI gave a hotter spark, which made the spark plugs ignite more cleanly?

Naah, that's HEI (high energy ignition). Swapping the points for a magnetic pickup is mostly just a maintenance saver.

fintail

If you're doing OK on the original stuff, I would just leave it be. I didn't get on the EI bandwagon until the car started acting funny, and getting new sets of points became difficult.

british_rover

Cheap Drift car or just a dead car?

little more expensive but in better shape

More built version of above

boomchek

The first one looks dead to me, needs paint, engine, has an a/m sunroof, I'd rather look for a more decent version for a couple grand more.

toomanyfumes

I think someone said this a while ago but, at least drag the heap out of the field and put some air in the tires before you try to sell it!

bumpy

Ah, the S13.

The first one is a shell, and worth only the opening bid considering you'd have to pull it out of the field yourself. The orange coupe is a better starting point, but the pig-snout 240s are more suited to a CA18DET swap. The third one looks nice enough, but I'm more curious about the Pulsar GTi-R and R32 Skyline parked behind it.

fintail

Most expensive Pinto

Most expensive Rabbit

Oddball survivor, kinda neat

save it for all that time, make nothing

" no outer rust on quarter panels or fenders or really anywhere, but i'm sure their is some, but you just don't see it" isn't reassuring

jlflemmons

"The car is fast, fun, and a classic."

yeah, but it is still just a 30 year old Volkswagen.

qbrozen

I'm learning quite the lesson with the mazda.

heard from the shop today. The head has cracks and is unrepairable. UGH!!

that just about broke my spirit. but ... then I found THIS.

What do you guys think? Is that TOO cheap? The guy has good feedback on his heads. Do i gamble more money on this truck? Or do I cut and run?

Not only has this turned into a personal vendetta against the truck, but I feel like an addicted gambler. I keep thinking ... just $200 more and everything will be alright!

xwesx

Well, heck, ~$200 for a head, that seems like pocket change. Does it have any sort of warranty from the rebuilder? Even with that you are into this truck for what, $1550? If that puts it straight for a reasonable future, I'd say you are still doing fine. Likely, though, with a replacement head installed, you are at about the max you will get back out of it if/when you go to sell.

qbrozen

that's what I figure. If its all good, passes inspection, etc, then its maybe a $1500 truck.

SO.. the only unforeseen answer is, "will this completely cure it?"

I have no clue. I hope this is it ... but, then again, I had hoped when i bought it that it only needed a new exhaust and tune-up.

What it comes down to right now is whether its worth the gamble. Its either spend $200 now and I've either got a truck worth what I've put into it or one worth maybe a $700-$800 loss. OR, I cut and run now for maybe a $600 loss. And I'm possibly underestimating my losses here.

xwesx

Well, I guess the way I look at it now is that in non-running condition (assuming you do not reinstall the head) or at least non-passable condition, the value of the vehicle basically falls into the parts category and that really eats into the value. If you can get $1500 out of it, say, 12 months from now, and end up with a total investment of $2000 at that same point in time, I would think $500 worth of use is breaking fairly even. But, if this turns into tinkering/dumping $100 a month or so into it for the next 12 months with no actual use, then that is where you are going to be in the loss department because everything invested above the selling price has zero return.

That is my thought, but then I look at actual use as having intrinsic value (which is why I do not feel like I have been gutted by my 1996 Outback!). :P

So, if it were "roadable," how much return would you get out of it?

qbrozen

well, like i said, i think its about a $1500 truck if in good working order. so that means $0 return if I buy the head and its in good working order after that.

Interesting point about spending up to $2k and using it for a year or more. I guess that's one way of looking at it. So I've got another $700 to spend. LOL.

xwesx

so that means $0 return if I buy the head and its in good working order after that.

Hahah.... well, maybe you should say "$0 LOSS" if it is in good working order afterward. :P

Just remember there is no guarantee the next truck is going to be any better. Old vehicles like this are rarely dirt cheap and turn-key ready. Mine certainly was not - I just got lucky in terms of how much work/money it took to get it back up to snuff. But, including the purchase, I was still into it for about $2500. Granted, it was worth twice that, but I would have put that much into it even if that were not the case. I was looking at my needs, not the market value of the truck. As it is, I could give it away today and still feel like I made out like a bandit for what I received from the truck over 10 years of ownership!

explorerx4

their spelling sucks. what is 'complet' or 'hydrolic'?

gsemike

If I can go back a few posts, who gives a crap about that 4800 mile Mustang? I think an 83 GT had 165 horse. That car looks completely dated and is not collectible. Those cars got better and more powerful every year until they ended. The typical beater driver is worth 1500. This one has an extra zero on it.

andre1969

If I can go back a few posts, who gives a crap about that 4800 mile Mustang? I think an 83 GT had 165 horse.

I could see someone who had one back in the day appreciating it, but that's about it. FWIW I kinda like it, but not enough to pay $15000 for it.

What year was it that they finally started getting powerful again? My 1985 Consumer Guide has a test of a 1985 Mustang GT, and it was up to about 200-205 hp by then. I dunno about the 1984 though.

I really wonder sometimes, why people put some cars away for so long. I can actually understand some of the pimpy mastodons from the late 70's. Once GM started downsizing their big cars, even though they were wildly popular at the time, there was still a large contingent that wanted a truly large car. A lot of people bought these big, pimpy Lincolns and even New Yorkers and, for whatever reason, just held on to them and didn't drive them.

My buddy with the 1978 Mark V's finds these low mileage dreambarges online on a regular basis. He just sent me a link to a 1979 Continental "Collectors Series" sedan on eBay with soemthing like 1589 miles on it! Something like that was probably what? About $15K new? Maybe more? Sometimes those designer editions went for crazy prices.

Just factoring in for inflation, $15K would be about $42K today. Even if you just took that money and put it into something tame like savings bonds, it would be worth at least $77K! (I have some old bonds from 1979 with a purchase price of $18.75 that are worth $96-99, depending on the time of the year my Mom got them, so that's where I got the multiplication factor). And in a halfway decent mutual fund, you'd probably be around a half-mil $!

But, I guess holding onto an old car might be an emotional decision.

Once you factor in for inflation, I wonder how many classic cars actually get back up to their original purchase price? For instance, my grandparents bought a new '57 Ford Fairlane 500 4-door hardtop, well-loaded, for $3500. That's about $24,000 today. Are there any 1957 Ford models, other than the T-bird, a Sunliner convertible or Skyliner retractable, that would break $24K today if they were in pristine condition?

qbrozen

Always trust your gut!

I KNEW I should have purchased that head when I had the chance. My father had me waiting a bit so his vendor would have the chance to find one and now the Ebay one is gone. This is NOT GOOD!

lilengineerboy

I could see someone who had one back in the day appreciating it, but that's about it. FWIW I kinda like it, but not enough to pay $15000 for it.

What year was it that they finally started getting powerful again? My 1985 Consumer Guide has a test of a 1985 Mustang GT, and it was up to about 200-205 hp by then. I dunno about the 1984 though.

One of my buddies had one(it might have been an '83)...that summer (maybe '90) he was dropping my gf and I off at her folks house and the car flexed enough going up the driveway to crack the windshield. The phrase "limp noodle" comes to mind.

british_rover

Contact the guy see if he has one in the process of being prepped or something.

qbrozen

already sent the message. Asked him to let me know if he has another or if the buyer backs out. I explained that I just signed on to ebay to purchase the head when i found out it was gone.

no reply yet.

isellhondas

Finding another head shouldn't be hard. You can find one in a junkyard and take it to a machine shop to have the valves and guides done.

stickguy

You should at least give it a try, since the truck is worth diddle as it is. You are way ahead of th game since you do the work yourself. If you were paying $80/hr to throw on parts, well that's a different story.

If you did buy that head, and it turns out it need more work beyond that, at least you have a complete truck to sell (so the value is now worth more than you paid for the head), or you could pull it back off and resell it.

How about a wrecking yard? Maybe you can find a decent miles engine to pull one off of, and just slean up the surfaces and throw it on?

qbrozen

Well... problem with that is you never know what you'll get. Could be that its in the junkyard for the same problem, for all I know. So I have to go through the effort of pulling it, pay for it (junkyards aren't as cheap as they used to be), then take it to a shop to have it cleaned and inspected. And if it turns out to be cracked, ya start all over again.

as stickguy said, I'd have to locate one with low miles and hope for the best. I might have to start making calls this afternoon.

2nd problem to all of this is that my wife is away for the weekend, leaving me with the baby. So I can't spend a few hours in a junkyard this weekend, even if I am lucky enough to locate a similar truck.

qbrozen

Yes!

Ebay seller has another one!

isellhondas

You are correct about junkyard prices! Not like the old days for sure.

Chances are slim another head would be cracked. This isn't common. I once had a Mazda pickup that had bad valve guides. When it was cold it would smoke the neighborhhood out. Once it warmed up, no smoke.

qbrozen

Ah ... the good ole days when you could pay something like $5-$10 and get to take whatever you could pull and carry out.

I'm not sure when it changed. I think it happened while I was away at college.

Last thing I ever bought from a junkyard was a set of steel wheels for a '66 mustang back in ... hmmmm... geez, i'm not really sure ... I think '90 or '91. Paid like $40, i believe. And even that surprised me.

I went to the yard thinking I'd go in and look for what I needed. Gates are locked and you have to go inside the "office." There the man asks me what I'm looking for. uhhh... ok... so i tell him. he looks in the computer. HUH? a computer?? at a junkyard??? finds what i need, sends someone to grab them, and asks for the money. What the ..??? LOL. not an unpleasant experience ... just not at all what i remember or was expecting.

andre1969

I remember back in 1978, my Granddad got a hood, fender, bumper, headlight assembly, bumper and brackets, all the grille teeth, and some chrome for a 1953 DeSoto Firedome. Paid like 80 bucks for it.

About a month ago, someone stole a front tire off my Intrepid in an Annapolis parking garage. Took the lugnuts too, so the spare was useless and the car was stranded. :mad: I was able to find another wheel with a good tire on it, hubcap, and lugnuts in the junkyard, and THAT was 70 bucks! Even though that's a lot cheaper than if I went and bought a new wheel and a new tire, the times sure have changed.

Mr_Shiftright

Do you have any of those "Pick a Part" wrecking yards? They don't list an inventory, but you can pay a small fee and prowl around with your tools. I got some good stuff out of those type of yards, but yah takes yer chances as to what's in there at any given time.

british_rover

There were three pick a part places within about 20 minutes of my old town house. I would pay my dollar to go in then pick off whatever little valuable electronic bits I could find.

The yard only charged about a 1.50 for each sensor on a car as they had no metal in them and were not worth anything as scrap.

I got a 30 day warranty on those parts and would sell them on ebay.

I listed them for between 19.95 and 39.95 depending on what the retail for the part was new. People bought them up left and right and if they had a problem with them they could send them back.

I would refund the money minus shipping and just take the deffective sensors back to the junk yard to get my dollar back next time I was at the yard.

It was a nice little suplemental income for a year or so.

jlflemmons

Oh, please tell me you thought to pull one lug nut from each of the other wheels to mount the spare tire and drive away. Please???