Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

andre1969

I was a little confused by the wording in that ad. Is the guy throwing the 350 crate motor in with the deal or not? My interpretation of it was that he wasn't. I could be wrong though. But if it comes with the motor and it's a good one, $3K might not be too bad. But then what do I know...I still want a Mirada! :P

qbrozen

I assume he is, too. I mean, why mention it otherwise?

If not, then its not even close to worth it.

andre1969

I kinda like this 1967 GMC! Maybe I'll get lucky and the insurance company will total out my Silverado! :shades:

Neat car, but probably needs more work than the seller is letting on. Also, if the spelling "breaks" bothers you, be forwarned...that's only the tip of the iceberg!

This is kinda graceful, in an Andrea Doria-esque sort of way. Price doesn't seem bad if it looks this good in person. I'd imagine that nearly 5000 pounds coupled with a 159 hp 400 don't make for a combination that will win many drag races though. I wonder how badly torn up the steering wheel is?

Paging Lemko, paging Lemko... This doesn't seem too bad for the money. It's one of those colors that normally I probably wouldn't like, but somehow I think it works okay on this car.

Mr_Shiftright

Problem with any car with a "blown head gasket" is that if you take it apart you're crazy not to clean up the heads--so there's machine shop $$, then you need of course a complete upper engine gasket set, and then of course you gotta figure out why it blew the head gasket in the first place (overheat?) and then you have gunk and goop in the engine, cooling system, etc.

So really you are better off just buying one of these unloved beasts from an old geezer for $1,500 that is all ready to run.

andre1969

IMO the only 1980-85 Seville that's really worth having is the 1980 with the Caddy 368, or maybe the 1981 with the V-8-6-4 (after you've disabled the cylinder deactivation crap!) The '82-85 models had an aluminum 249 CID V-8 that only put out 125-135 hp, was prone to early self-destruction, and just couldn't move a 4000 pound beast with much dignity. The 368 only had about 150 hp, but gobs of torque, and could get it up to 60 in around 11 seconds. Try about 15 for those 249 models I guess, and I'd imagine the Diesel would be around 18-20?

If someone really wanted that '85 Seville, probably the most merciful thing to do would be to find a Caddy 368, or maybe an Olds 350 non-Diesel and swap it out. But overall, the best thing to do if you really want one is, like Shifty said, just go and find a nice one.

kapbot

I believe that FWD autos have the non-deep dish wheel design so that the thicker than normal FWD driveshaft & hub will fit in the wheelwell. In other words, the spindle is much wider than in a RWD design, and you don't want your wheels sticking out past the fender.
I still can't figure out if the Nova is being offered with the crate motor. I assumed not when I originally posted, but now I'm not sure. $3,000 is way,way,way too much without a motor, IMO. With it, maybe, depending on what crate motor we're talking about.

lemko

I knew two people who had those bustleback Sevilles - both were "bad year" models. My high school-college girlfriend who came from a very wealthy family got a new two-tone maroon and silver 1982 model for a graduation present and several years later I had a ladyfriend who had a 1984 two-tone blue one. She later traded the car for a new red 1992 Cadillac DeVille similar in color to the 1994 DeVille I had. I don't remember either having any trouble with them, but they were dogs to drive. If you thought the Seville was bad, try a Fleetwood with that 4100 engine. You can time 0-60 in a Seville with an hour glass, but you need a calendar for a 1983 Fleetwood.

andre1969

has a road test of a 1985 Fleetwood Brougham. They got 0-60 in 14.8 seconds with it. By '85 though the 4100 was up to 135 hp, whereas it had been 125 in earlier years. They may have also done stuff to it that improved driveability and responsiveness.

I guess when you think about it, getting 135 hp to move 4000+ pounds from 0-60 in 14.8 seconds isn't all that bad. The car relied on a 3.42:1 rear end to do it though, which was no doubt bad for fuel economy. Once they put the 307 under the hood for 1986, I think they went to a 2.73:1 rear end, which helped out with fuel economy, and probably a bit with performance as well. I think it took the Chevy TBI 350, which had 185 hp, to get these cars from 0-60 in under 10 seconds though.

MT or C&D tested a 1980 Seville with the 368, and got 0-60 in 10.6 seconds. They tested it against a Mark VI with a 351, which did it in 11.0, and a poor 1980 New Yorker 5th Ave that was saddled with a 120 hp 318, and was only good for 0-60 in 14.1

bumpy

I kinda like this 1967 GMC!

Heh, has the stock V-6 and everything. Most Philistines just rip out the original motor and drop in some nasty crate 350. It looks nice and even lives just down the road from you. I've got the factory maintenance manual for you if you do get it.

andre1969

Heh, has the stock V-6 and everything.

Yeah, I think that's one thing that attracted me to it, the unique engine. So would that be a 305 cubic inch V-6? Any idea how much hp it would have? For example, how would it compare to the 305-4bbl V-8 in my Silverado? It has 165 hp, 245 ft-lb of torque, and pretty much does whatever I need it to.

What would be a reasonable price for something like this? I hate to say it, but I'm actually thinking about it...

andre1969

of a Plymouth Tornado? Kind of a monstrous looking thing. I can see a bit of Batmobile in it, too, even though the Batmobile was based on the Futura show car.

bumpy

Lessee... the 305E was 142 hp and 260 ft-lb net. Probably drives about like the smog-choked 305 SBC as-is, though a 500 cfm Holley 2-bbl will liven up the V6 without a mileage penalty.

As for price, $5000 seems a bit high. If it looks as nice as it does in the pics and the guy has receipts for the tranny and such, I'd say low-mid $4s. Rear axle on a regular half-ton should be something like a 3.07, tranny could be either a Powerglide (GMC called it a Pow-R-Flo) or a TH-400, and the ad didn't say anything about power steering so you may want some skinny tires up front.

Edit: I took another look at the pictures in the ad, and I think I see the cap for the power steering reservoir below the upper radiator hose. Also, the ad includes the magic words: "Price is negotiable." Go get your new (old) truck.

boomchek

I think the Tornado is located in Poland. The translations are all acurate. But this guy is dreaming if he thinks the car is worth between $30 and $50k.

fintail

Those pics don't look like anywhere in Europe with those building styles and cars in the background. Maybe just by a Polish Mopar enthusiast?

That car is just some period custom and not a concept car, I assume.

boomchek

You're right. I had a look at the pics again, and the car's plate as well as the appraisal has UTAH on it.

Mr_Shiftright

The appraiser should be arrested for incompetence. It wouldn't be worth $30,000 restored to Pebble Beach Concours condition.

Value? Whatever it gets on eBay is as good a guess as any. Probably $3,500--$5,000 if he's lucky.

andre1969

yeah, the more I think about it, I'm guessing that this thing is a custom job and not a real concept. For one thing, I've had a Chrysler history book since I was 15, and it had just about every Mopar concept/dream car there was, except for the turbine Mirada. I'm sure this Tornado thing would have been in it. Of course, that book is horribly out of date now as it only goes up through 1985, and ends on a high note with Chrysler's rapid recovery in the early 80's.

I also did a Google search on "1958 Plymouth Tornado", and most of what comes up is a story about a tornado that killed several people in Plymouth, Massachussetts in 1958! :surprise: I did find another Tornado for sale though, offered through some consignment company. I'm sure that if this thing was a real concept car, there'd be more about it on the internet.

qbrozen

hahaha. well, i'm not sure how much stock I'd put in an appraiser who can't even spell metal ("medal"). I think the seller typed up that letter himself.

Mr_Shiftright

No concept car would be that ugly and badly done, would it? Concept cars might be eccentric but they are usually very nicely finished (at least superficially). This car is grotesque and heinous...looks like one of those "too many beers in the garage" kind of things...

jlflemmons

That thing looks like a kluge of several different cars. All of them ugly.

boomchek

Looks like a "torando" came thru that garage and now we see the result. har har har :P

gsemike

How overpriced is this 176,000 mile MR2

Lease a used Malibu for twice as much as you can lease a new one for

This I like for $4,000

Do not ask for pics unless you are from out of town (car is in zipcode 11791)..bring a reasonable offer and it's yours WTF???? Why is a pic too much to ask? Never believe an ad for a car that has loads of work done and then the seller indicates a problem and says "I have no idea why"

fintail

High diesel price for a gas model...well, that clattery old unit might sound like a diesel

Kind of a cute little thing

I just like the spelling

Mr_Shiftright

Actually I think the gas engine version of the Mercedes wagon is a better car. If 24 mpg is accurate, then it's just as economical as a diesel, using cheaper fuel, and I bet a lot faster for modern freeways. $8K is silly money, but $5,500 would be about right.

Chevrolatte: def: a coffee-colored pickup truck.

qbrozen

I like that Falcon, too. But $7500 for a 6-cyl with rust issues is way too much for my wallet.

fintail

Pretty money pit

lilengineerboy

So I have been checking out "thesamba.com," "roadfly.com," craigslist, ebay, autotrader, cars.com and the freebees in the grocery store and the newspaper. I have also been looking at audiworld, audifans.com and vwvortex classifieds sections.
If I am digging for a 914 2.0 or 78-86 911, where else should I look?

explorerx4

pca?

bumpy

"purchased by mistake" LOL

nvbanker or douglasr would like this

okay, THIS is Andre's truck

I didn't realize a diesel big-body existed. Too bad this one screams "Run away!"

A good car ruined by paint and rims.

I'm guessing the dealer wouldn't go for it.

too bad it's not AWD

lilengineerboy

Wow the loser pile is growing.
That Plymouth Laser is not only not AWD, its not even a Turbo. Its not even a 2.0l, its the dinky 1.8. Prolly gets good mileage though.
That 528e is just like what we used to call "the love turtle" (it was tortise green). 0-60 was like watching paint dry. That said, the eta engine is very robust (and low reving) and gets reasonable economy.
S320s were reasonably common when I was in the bay area. Most were debaged so people would think it was an S500. Thats probably how that one got stolen, car-jacker couldn't read.
Porsche 911 looks good except for being a targa. I would really rather have a sunroof if I get my choice. There was an '80 911 coupe on thesamba for ~$9k too.

stickguy

OK, I do like that one, although the clutch must be a bear.

Wonder how true the tale is, vs. he bought it and had someone in the know tell him he bought a dog/time bomb, and he is looking to bail?

Still, looks pretty nice for 8K.

andre1969

I like that GMC dumptruck! Let's see what happens when you run a 2000 Infiniti into the back of one of THOSE!!

That thing would look cool with a a pickup truck bed grafted on, although I guess with the long wheelbase, you'd probably have to buy two pickup truck beds to splice together, since I'm sure that thing has a longer wheelbase than my truck.

Or I could just keep it as-is. I do need to get some more driveway gravel, which ain't happening with my pickup, and it would be a heckuva lot easier to go get topsoil in that thing instead of messing around with it one cubic yard at a time with my pickup.

Mr_Shiftright

Well considering that a 911 engine rebuild is $12,000, one would want to look this $8,000 car over rather carefully...ahem....

fintail

Yeah IIRC those diesel W140s are not the best diesel ever built. And I don't even know what a "body harness" is, although earlier 140s are well known for wiring harness failure....something about the use of recycled plastics in MB's quest to make the big tank look environmentally friendly.

xwesx

Much agreed, Andre! If I had enough friends who would want to use it now and again (and I lived just a *wee* bit closer), I would be all over it. That thing is a steal at that price, assuming even marginal functionality and a rust-free chassis and bed.

As it is, for now I am planning to do some work on the 1976 Ranger I am receiving next summer to make it my primary work horse. It already has a snow plow and heavy duty suspension, so since the bed is literally rusted away, I will tear it off and replace it with a flatbed/dump. I should be able to haul a good 2 yards+ of soil/gravel per load, and the dumping makes unloading and spreading so much easier!

boomchek

Check out buy and sell vancouver. There's a few porsches listed for sale, including 914. Buysell.com

Here's one:link title

ghulet

I just went out to the burbs to take a look at a friend's mom's 1985 380SL. Here's a basic synopsis of its condition, save for the glaring fact that I couldn't test drive it because I didn't feel it was drivable (I love when people ask me to look at cars like this):

85 MB 380SL, metallic silvery blue, blue interior
102984 miles, original owner
body OK, not great--will need paint: rusty streaks going from hardtop to start of trunk, some fading on hood, a bit of rust bubbling in the usual places (above sides of rear bumper behind rear wheelwells, at top of front fender next to hood; not through or brown, but it's there); LR taillight is cracked right above where the bumper is a bit crinkled--you have to really look at it to see it, though; and finally, one fin in the grille is partially chipped off. Also, it has a lovely vintage cell phone antenna added aft the the broken radio aerial near the trunk. Interior OK, definitely needs a detail, seats have some patina and a bit of wear on bolsters, but no tears in leather or at seams and seat stuffing isn't worn or misshapen; interior door panels OK. All glass is good. Both tops. Four decent but oldish Michelin MXV4s on original dirty period finned MB alloys. Just a peach.

The real kicker(s): this car was loaned to friend's 40+ year-old brother who apparently didn't have the gumption to get his CIVIC roadable (is that a bad enough sign?), so he drove it for a year or so without doing ANYTHING, including oil changes. Car apparently runs rough, has some smoke. Mom gets it back, takes it to a mechanic, who gives her a list of what it needs, which apparently she hasn't written down, or has lost (what was the point?), so it's been sitting dormant since January. She says mechanic says it does NOT need a new engine (I'd certainly guess some gaskets, valves, etc. though, given the smoke). It probably needs the usual brakes, suspension work, etc. given the mileage, recent neglect and that it was never a 'daily driver' until this idiot got a hold of it after 20 years of 'toy' status. She now wants to sell it....and it's going on November in Chicago. Brilliant.

My questions: anyone want to guess what it's worth as it sits? Would she be better off just donating it (I don't think that's an option because of the age of the car, but she's asking) and taking a tax write off (I know, that depends on her bracket....my guess is 'no', even given its condition).

Like I said, since I couldn't drive it, I kinda felt like the whole excercise was a bit of a waste, but I promised I'd put some feelers out there. Thanks.

-Geoff (STILL trying to find a replacement for his mom's dead 300E while she's been driving a rental for a month...I know!).

stickguy

found this beauty parked in a lot alongside the raod near my house (people seem to park at the sear's outlet side lot as a DIY lot). Anyway, it caught my eye for my son (even though it is still too early, and frankly, anything with a For Sale sign catches my eye):

turns out to be a 1990 Acura Integra, pale blue, 4 door GS (I guess that's the stripper model? No moonroof at least). 5 speed, 1 owner. Looks OK, no rust or body damage evidence, could use a good wax or compund. Generally OK looking.

has 150,000, owner (on sign) says it is in "fair" condition (seats are beat, so I don't know if this also means it clears out all the mosquitos in the neighborhood when you start it).

But, it is a stick, and he was only asking $1,250. @ problems though, 1) I don't need it until next July, and 2) it has the nasty rat belts (the insurance company seems to prefer airbags, but it probably doesn't make that much difference).

michaellno

The RS is the stripper trim level for Integras -- then LS, then GS.

I suppose it can't hurt to play 'what if' with your insurance agent. A 5 minute phone to them and they can tell you exactly what the premiums are going to be.

Who are you covered through? If State Farm (like me), find out if they offer a discount if your kid goes through a driver's training program. Also, good grades count as well - a 3.0 GPA or higher (must provide a grade report to verify) will reduce the premium a bit as well.

ghulet - no clue on the value of that old Benz. And, your mom still can't make up her mind? I thought she was going to get an Avalon.

Mr_Shiftright

It's a parts car, I mean literally. So salvage value basically...maybe $750--$1,500 tops tops. Value of a nice one dictates that value of this one is ZERO actually (do the math...start with price of a decent clean daily driver needing nothing, a # 3 car at $7,500, and subtract for paint, mechanicals, top repair, detailing, tires, etc.

If I were appraising this car for an estate settlement to make all parties happy with getting rid of grandpa's SL I might put down $2,500 in a fit of generous giddiness but I wouldn't feel great about defending that number.

fintail

Indeed, I was going to say the same thing...parts car.

When you can get realistically pristine low mileage maintained 560SLs for 15K these days, neglected lesser models are really kicked to the curb. Sad to see a car neglected like that.

Mr_Shiftright

Trying to save a beater V8 SL is financial suicide...it's really foolhardy and not even a noble idea because it has no upside whatsoever. The car isn't rare, so you aren't "saving one"...there never going to be a lot of value in it, so you aren't "investing", and there's a very likely danger of losing serious amounts of money on the deal.

fintail

Exactly. There's not any upside in "saving" most old MB, as restoration is so expensive. If it's far gone, it's probably too far gone unless one is going with a labor of love.

ghulet

...I hated to tell my friend that (before I even saw the car), but I was thinking it'd cost $5k minimum just to get it on the road (that's not with tires or anything aesthetic). If she paid that, then she has....a rough, gas-guzzling, 22 year-old 160hp two-ton, two-seat convertible in Chicago in November, Mercedes or not. Edmunds says around $3500 in 'rough' condition, which sounded generous to me. Kinda sad, she's in her mid-70s and single, no longer has much money and wants to sell it...this was a $50k car new. When I met my friend 15 years ago, the family had the 380SL, two 560SELs, a late-70s 911, and five 'daily drivers'...for five people). Something tells me that money could have been better spent on IRAs?

qbrozen

yeah, but a 50k car that lasted her 22 years. There's really not much to complain about.

andre1969

yeah, but a 50k car that lasted her 22 years. There's really not much to complain about.

It doesn't sound so bad when you put it that way. Still, I'm a cheap [non-permissible content removed] so I would've preferred the IRA! :P

I just calculated that if I bought $50K worth of McDonnell-Douglas stock when I started working for them back in 1992, I'd have about a million bucks today. Not that I had $50K burning a hole in my pocket back then.

fintail

Inheritance blown? That's pretty sad.

Nice 107s just aren't appreciating, and likely won't do so in any significant way (I think this is a bad year for them too)

british_rover

Our 1959 Rover is wounded :sick:

Looks like it needs a new fuel pump at the very least so they are putting that in now.

I hope it is nothing more major then that as we are planning to take it to the Harford Auto show in two weeks.

stickguy

I go by the Cherry Hill (NJ) Rover dealership on occasion, and they have an early one out front too. Looks to be a similar vintage to yours (at least from the 60's), with the hood mounted spare, etc. I haven't ever stopped in, but I should the next time I am over that way.

british_rover

I actually just did a swap with the cherry hill guys. Most of the NJ rover dealers make me feel like I need to wash my ear out after I talk with thm but the guys at Cherry Hill seem pretty good.

I have never met any of their people but I have spent a lot of time on the phone with a couple of the members of their sales staff.