Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

Mr_Shiftright

The Jaguar is a lot riskier than the 635CSi, that's true. Also it's an old person's car (are you an old person?)whereas the BMW has pretentions of sportiness at least.

But that's a whoppin' big price on the BMW. This had better be some bejeweled spectacle of mint-ness and pristine-osity with not a fly's footprint on it!

The problem with the old XJ6s is a) if a major component fails, you are wiped out and b) 99% of all repair shops will treat you like Dracula crashing bingo night at the local church supper. They will lock their doors and not answer the doorbell when you need fixin'.

I also dimly remember some gruesome horror story about the suspension on the late 80s XJ6s but I can't recall if it's only the 88s or also the 89s. But it's some unsolvable mess or another that you may wish to check out before you buy that year/model.

I always say the same thing about XJ6s---either buy a very low mileage pristine 85 or 86 model for dirt cheap, or buy a Ford-built car with some extended warranty on it. That's the only way to go to come out alive I think.

I don't dislike the 635. Where did you get that idea? Maybe you remember me wondering how some people price them, as if they were "rare" or "collectible", which simply isn't the case. They're great driving cars, if a bit gas-hungry for a 6 cylinder and can be quite reliable. Also you have a good aftermarket to scrounge parts.

andre1969

I don't dislike the 635. Where did you get that idea? Maybe you remember me wondering how some people price them, as if they were "rare" or "collectible", which simply isn't the case. They're great driving cars, if a bit gas-hungry for a 6 cylinder and can be quite reliable. Also you have a good aftermarket to scrounge parts.

I think qbrozen was waiting for you to cringe at the fact that 635 has an automatic transmission and not a stick!

How much of a performance hit would a car like this take with an automatic? Were BMW automatics from that era any good?

Mr_Shiftright

Oh it's the contrary I think. You'd deduct for stick-shift. These cars with stickshifts are a real chore to drive. Any huge car with a stickshift is a clumsy thing to row around all day. It's a GT car, not a sports car---it's a "gentleman's express"---the manual transmission for that car was kind of clunky. I wouldn't have one personally. I really have a gripe with big coupes and sedans with manual transmissions, even modern ones. Paddle shifters are okay though on modern large sedans, if they are agile enough to warrant such a thing.

By all means, get the automatic and be happy. It's a nice unit and it has a "sport" function.

The automatics are good, ZF units.

fintail

"Project"? You'd have to be Bill Gates to save this thing

An andre-limo, beyond redemption

Some kind of money pit

fintail

I kind of like that BMW. Last of the line, looks nice. Pricey. Those cars just scream "80s" to me, even though they are a 70s design.

texases

The 635 is the BMW I'd like to buy, to look at. Get behind the wheel, and it's a very nice 1976-designed GT, as Shifty says, but no race car. The '89 was the last year, so the interior was outdated by then. The asking price looks in line with what others are asking for a low-miles clean one, just hope there's a good maintenance record behind it. And the nice thing is the strong enthusiast community behind the 6-cyl BMWs - you could do lots to it, if that's your thing, with no worry of spoiling a 'classic'.

andre1969

I like that LeSabre Limo! Well, except for the continental bulge on the decklid, but that can be remedied. Kinda interesting that they'd convert a LeSabre and not an Electra, but I guess it's harder to make a limo out of a 4-door hardtop!

That '62 Plymouth looks like it actually has a fairly solid body, or at least some useable sheetmetal, although God only knows what the other side looks like, or the front-end damage! I guess it would make a good parts car for somebody trying to restore one of these vulgar things.

Oddly, as ugly as those '62 Plymouths were, for some reason I kinda like the Dodge version. Still strange and awkwardly shaped, but there's just something about the styling that appeals to me more. I guess there's "ugly but cool", and "just plain ugly"!

lilengineerboy

The stick isn't sooo terrible, with the amount of torque from a huge 3.5l straight 6, you don't have to shift much anyway.

The auto is pretty robust in terms of durability but still makes it sound like a city bus, IMHO.

qbrozen

maybe i was only thinking of your comments on the stick.

i definitely remember something about slow, lumbering, chore to drive, etc.

At least the Jag is cheap enough. As you've said before, drive it till it breaks and leave it on the side of the road.

lilengineerboy

As you've said before, drive it till it breaks and leave it on the side of the road.
1988 BMW 735i
I can't even speculate on miles or actual condition.

qbrozen

heck, for $2200, i'd definitely be knockin on his door to find out, though.

qbrozen

what's this really worth, though? My gut is telling me $4k is all the pesos in the world for it.
She does look pretty clean, though.

I only found 2 735s within 50 miles of me, and they both had over 200k on the clock and were both priced at $1995.

Mr_Shiftright

735s aren't worth anything much. It's a very hard sell and $2,200 for a really clean good one is fair market IMO. I had an immaculate one and struggled to get $2,500 in the Bay Area---it took weeks to sell it. Too bad, it's really the best BMW they ever made as far as I'm concerned. Go figure!

$8900 seems a tad too much for a 635CSi unless it is truly, genuinely spectacular---$6,500 is plenty for a 100% ready to go clean driver. These cars have been stagnant in value for years and years. Tough sell at 8900.

Well yeah the 6 and 7 series do sound like a city bus although I don't know why a city bus that is shifting sounds any better than one that isn't. :P

qbrozen

what do you think of that green 535?

I'd like to find a nice 735 for that kind of money around here. It just doesn't happen. I'm convinced NJ is just a world unto itself when it comes to the car market. As I mentioned, I've got 2 examples and they are both over 200k miles. If I could find a nice one with 100k anywhere near $3k, I'd have to work hard to stay away from it.

Mr_Shiftright

But those 735s are at least 17 years old by now, so most are either dead or shabby.

You have to remember that cars with little value invariably disappear because they fall into the hands of individuals who cannot take care of them financially speaking. This is why cars like Alfa Spiders and MGBs are all so incredibly ratty when you do find them--or have been restored and are very expensive. The "originals" are pretty much all gone---victims of budget-constrained owners who bought them cheap.

As far as any old BMWs is concerned, you don't buy a fixer-upper. Either its spotless and 100% ready to go, or you can forget it. There's no coming back from a ratty BMW. The numbers just won't work for you.

lilengineerboy

One of the BMW rags and Grassroots Motorsports both did restos of various "shabby" BWMs and lost their butts. If you NEED that car, then its not about the $$$, its a labor of love. If you think you are gonna flip it for $$, get a Honda that won't start.

qbrozen

oh, i would definitely never bother with a fixer-upper bmw. There are a LONG line of cars I would rather spend time restoring.

I only consider them because the 35s seem to go 200k miles on a regular basis. So getting one in nice shape with 100k or less would give me a decent driver for several years for not a whole lot of money. AT least, that's the theory.

texases

There's 7 on cars.com, $3000-$8000, with most $4000-$6000, so this doesn't seem bad, as far as asking price. It's personal preference 535 vs. 735 - the 535 looks better, IMHO, handles a bit better, and would have enough room, but if you're going to carry 4 adults, the 735 would be better, of course.

boomchek

I always liked the secong gen 7 series (87-95). I think they still have nice looking lines to them but I'd prefer the lwb7 over the swb.

The gold one for $2200 has either no legroom in the back, or it's owned by a basketball player.

hpmctorque

"...Then you'll have an engine that can REV, unlike the one you have now, which is very unhappy after 4800 rpm."

I think it's the 2.7 engine that doesn't like to rev, but that the 2.5 has no problem revving.

Mr_Shiftright

I suppose one of the last years of 735i, say 1992, could be worth $4,000 if really nice, but $6K!! You can buy s super nice 3 series that's a lot newer, for that price.

One problem is that some of the 735s are kinda gas hogs...at $3.25 and rising at my local station, that could hurt if you are racking up 15 mpg.

I like the 5 series the best. I find the older 3 series very uncomfortable for my size.

fintail

Either there's a typo or someone is planning early for April Fools day

texases

Let's ignore all the obviously wrong things, and just note that he talks about "60-70 miles range with new batteries...was sitting in a warehouse for years" - guess what you'll be buying 20 of at WalMart....

Mr_Shiftright

Let's see now....over here a used 3-4 year old certified Prius for $15,000....and over there a $12,000, 25 year old Ford Escort running on lead acid batteries that needs overnight charging every 60 miles......HMMMMM...decisions, decisions......

boomchek

Of all the cars to turn into an electric, did it have to be the UGLY one?

You can pick up a used Honda Insight for less than that!

210delray

Ah yes, the EXP. One of the ugliest post-WWII cars ever made (better than Aztek or '58 Edsel, but not by much).

For the same money, you can get a really nice '04 Camry 4-cylinder. Or as you said, an Insight if high mpg's are a must.

qbrozen

i could be wrong, but I believe he was referring to 535 pricing.

Mr_Shiftright

I wasn't sure either but the pricing for either the very early 90s 735 or 535 should be about the same.

My impression as to why the pricing of older German cars is so low is that buyers are justifiably wary of incurring devastating repair costs. This market influence of course diminishing demand, while supply remains fairly plentiful. So aside from the few nice/mint/low mileage ones, most are priced very attractively, as they have to be to find a buyer.

If you buy an '86 Monte Carlo, it's so much easier and cheaper to cope with repairs than on an '86 635CSi...probably on a scale of 1:4 for parts and labor.

fintail

Not many of these survived like this, even here

I think I lost about 30 IQ points just by reading the ad

qbrozen

Here, it seems that pricing goes up as the car size goes down.

7-series = slightly overpriced
5-series = overpriced
3-series = grossly overpriced

I just did a search for a friend who wants an early 90s 325. I found only 3 with less than 105k miles that are under $9,000!!

qbrozen

i like the yota ... but the automatic ruins it. Oh, and I always love ads that state "xx,xxx original miles .... speedometer stopped working x years ago." uhhhhh...

Mr_Shiftright

That's the supply and demand equation at work right there....everybody wants a 3 series, nobody wants a 7 series, and only a moderate amount of people are shopping 5 series.

Given that just about everyone but the few and the brave are BURIED in $$$ in their old BMWs, they price them high to try and come out somewhat close to even (not likely)-- so either they have to drop their prices, hold the car, or the lucky few find a naive buyer who is too lazy to look in a price guide.

Of course, the owner of a low miles, pristine, one owner BMW 3 series is holding aces and will get a top price.

andre1969

also get more expensive to maintain and repair as you move on up to the bigger models?

seminole_kev

Andre - that's probably true of most manufacturer's lineups since (at least normally) as you move up the line you get more bells and whistles to break as the car ages.

That and typcially more cylinders for engine maintenance, etc....

qbrozen

Well, at least in the case of a 735 vs 535, I would think they are pretty similar. I mean, what extra might there be? (i honestly don't know as I've never been in either)

Mr_Shiftright

Probably you run into problems with economy of scale...there are fewer 7 series sold, so parts for them are more expensive, and fewer independent shops are familiar with them. Of course, once you run into V8s and V12s it's a horror show when they break something big.

But I'm sure the older 7 series have many parts that are peculiar just to 7 series, and you're going to pay through the nose for them.

last of all, the aftermarket does not support the 7 series very much at all.

fintail

"AMAZINING"

xwesx

Staggering. And with such high quality photos! Of course, anyone can see that "everything is perfect" just by looking at them! :lemon:

michaellno

I hate to say it, but I bet that thing goes like a scalded cat if it's sorted out.

I had a VR6-equipped Golf as a loaner once, when our New Beetle was in the shop. That was the quietest, most powerful engine I'd ever experienced in a car that size - of course, when everything else you've driven up to that point was a 4-banger, the VR6 is pretty amazing.

When we got the NB, I remember reading an article somewhere about a shop in CA that would do a VR6 transplant for something like $5K - I admit to being tempted, but since the NB was the wife's car (and a lease, to boot), I figured it wasn't a good idea to bring up.

210delray

lost 30 IQ points -- LOL!

Does that Acura come with a dent on the roof where he stepped on it? :P

jlflemmons

Hard to believe this is on craigslist.

jlflemmons

Hard to believe this is on craigslist.

Mr_Shiftright

doesn't give the mileage---not a good sign. Over 30,000K on a Ferrari is the kiss of death....sales-death I mean. Start discounting. And over 60,000K is a parts car.

Car seems a bit cheap, wonder what's up?

jlflemmons

$275,000 is cheap? As in over a quarter million dollars??? :surprise:

gsemike

Let me ask you guys a question about a project that I'm actually going to undertake.

How do I change the Throttle Position Sensor for a 93 Buick LeSabre with the 3.8 FI? My local shop wants 300 to do it. I can get the part for about 85.

I hate to put money into the car but it's not quite time to fold em yet.

I figure that since most of you guys can spot the wrong distributor in a 63 Fiat from a grainy pic on Craig's List, someone here has to know this. Thanks in advance for your help.

Mr_Shiftright

You might want to post that here:

Technical Questions

Also, check the "repair guides" section in the www.autozone.com website.

Last of all, use the dropdown windows on the left to see what's up in any Buick topics.

Shifty

Mr_Shiftright

I want this:

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/car/301461323.html

And this but with some paint changes:

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/car/300932446.html

Here's a very rare car but not a project:

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/car/301311972.html

GENUINE project but I like it:

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/car/302537640.html

Here's someone's finished project:

http://losangeles.craigslist.org/lgb/car/299352392.html

texases

Anyone know what a new one goes for? Edmunds shows a base price of $192,000 for a 2006 F430 Spyder, but I have no idea what real selling prices are.

Mr_Shiftright

This is about high retail here:

http://www.dupontregistry.com/autos/Search/DRauSearchDetails.aspx?itemid=355056

texases

Cars.com list about 20 of them, $300 - $330 K, so our ad's a real 'bargain'...