Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

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Comments

  • seminole_kevseminole_kev Member Posts: 1,696
    Being that it is a 3.8 mk2, even with automatic, if it was running, even in that shape I could see around $7,500 going for it. Some of it is also going to depend on the state of some of the other things, like power steering, brakes, etc... Sitting for that long, I'm sure there are a ton of seals to replace.

    Still, if you can do some of the mechanical work, the body looks to be mostly intact and the interior, save carpet and perhaps headliner (can't tell) could probably be "freshened up".

    As it is, not running, I'd go as far as maybe $3,500. After that, I'd have to definetly get my hands on it and check it out personally before going above that.
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 11,146
    They might have thought it was a valve job, but who knows? And is every little part there? Another example of not doing what should be a small job (valves) to get it running and double the value of the car. And yes, why someone doesn't spend an hour on it with a can of leather conditioner is beyond me.
  • oregonboyoregonboy Member Posts: 1,650
    why someone doesn't spend an hour on it with a can of leather conditioner is beyond me.

    As long as it is left alone, the seller can maintain the fiction that with a little effort is can be made whole. Once cleaned up, all the warts and irreparable flaws become more obvious. :sick:

    james
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    These cars are ALWAYS a hassle and it's ALWAYS more than it looks like. They were rust traps of the highest order, and I'm sure there's more rust in the car. Quite honestly, the best price for this car is "free". You can buy a real beauty for $25,000--$30,000 and a decent clean runner for $17K-20K. At $7,500 for this wreck you are bottoms up from the get-go....and they aren't so rare that you can't pick and choose.

    I agree, the engine looks awful. I have all the books to put it together though :P but not THIS car....

    Have you driven the automatic? Pretty clunky....it's an old Borg Warner unit.
  • seminole_kevseminole_kev Member Posts: 1,696
    well my $7,500 comment was if it was running.

    These are the kind of cars that you really have to get up and personally inspect. I don't think I'd be comfortable buying anything more than a parts car over ebay.

    Shifty, actually my 3.4 began life as one of those automatics and was later converted to a "moss box" manual. Kind of both a blessing and a curse ;-)

    That shift from 1 to 2, you basically need to do your taxes in between in order to avoid grinding!
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Yeah, the Moss box is slow. Maybe someday you can put in one of those nifty 5-speeds?

    One area I'd always check on the 3.8 is the frame rails just under the engine.
  • seminole_kevseminole_kev Member Posts: 1,696
    Bottom edge of the door skins can be nasty as well. And like most cars, always watch around where the battery goes.

    Yeah, one day I'll probably put in a modern 5 speed, as I think it would really breathe new life into her, but that's a "down the road" project....which means (cough) no way the wife would approve those kind of funds right now (cough).
  • seminole_kevseminole_kev Member Posts: 1,696
    In jaunting around eBay and Craigslist today, here's a simple list of a few red flags when looking at these cars.

    1) If it "just needs a battery to run" something is seriously wrong with it. Walk away. Otherwise surely the seller wouldn't be so stupid as to not put "only a battery" in the car when selling.
    2) If the car is seriously dirty, there's probably a reason. Otherwise the seller would take the hour or so to clean it all up to make it look as good as possible.
    3) If it "only needs a belt to work"...again, something is seriously wrong with it. Otherwise the seller would probably spend the $20 bucks for the belt and put it on.

    I'm sure you guys have some others to add as well.....
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Well it's obvious what's going on here...the seller did in fact inquire into the repair and found out that it was bad news.....or.....they just don't want to know so they pick the easiest (and least likely) of all the solutions to the problem.

    I really like the sellers who tell the buying public how stupid they are, that they're "sick of the lowball offers" and "people just don't have a clue about these cars"....it's like Saddam Hussein killing off 350 of his relatives...at what point does someone look in the mirror and say "gee, maybe it's me?"
  • seminole_kevseminole_kev Member Posts: 1,696
    That Fairmont points out a styling techique that looks awful to my eyes, and that is different levels of the bottom edge of the glass. Basically the door glass starts lower than the quarter window glass. An ugly look to me.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,601
    Oh, that's a nice W115. Dreadfully overpriced, but it's cool.

    And re: the Fairmont, ever since I was a kid I have thought that style made the wheels look very small, out of proportion. Strange car...although I remember seeing tons of them around once, so they must have sold.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    the price is absurd.

    He's valuing it about triple actual market value---it's not easy to be that wrong.
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 11,146
    Sometimes a 2-door looks better than the 4-door, but this is a mess. In the dark days of the late '70s, the 1978 4-door Fairmont was a clean, honest design.

    image
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Mendocino County where they grow a lot of....you know....in the woods nearby?

    That might explain this ad....

    http://sfbay.craigslist.org/nby/car/306004078.html
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    a snowball in hell would have a BETTER chance...

    http://sfbay.craigslist.org/nby/car/305604170.html
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I prefer "bloodbath":

    http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/car/303360519.html

    How low can they go?
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 53,689
    200K on a '98 Jag? who would have thought it possible!

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,886
    200k miles? maybe they just took some pictures while the owner was in buying a 'little debbie' snack. :surprise:
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 11,146
    Hope it's not 'take a photo of a car to steal, see if there's any interest' - someone did that at a bike store here. [edit - what idiot would pick this car???]
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 53,689
    Yeah, they look different, but probably pretty close underneath the sheet metal!

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • texasestexases Member Posts: 11,146
    Any opinions on 50s Lincolns? Seems like Cadillacs get all the attention.
  • boomchekboomchek Member Posts: 5,516
    I never like the looks of these cars, especially the coupe. Doesn't look futuristic at all, well maybe it did when compared to other cars out for sale back then.

    As for the Jag, that is so tempting. I always loved the lines of those XKs, but at 200k, a lot of money has to be sunk in of things start breaking down.

    2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX

  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,097
    I never like the looks of these cars, especially the coupe. Doesn't look futuristic at all, well maybe it did when compared to other cars out for sale back then.

    Ford was trying to go for that "basket handle" roofline look on the Futura coupe, trying to tie the styling in line with the '77-79 T-bird and, to a degree, those old 50's Crown Victorias with that chrome strip that went up over the roof.

    I thought the look worked on the '77-79 T-bird, which had a wide, low look to it. Also, the distance between the bottom of the door window and the bottom of the rear window wasn't as great on the T-bird.

    I think a '77-79 T-bird has a sleeker look to it as well, whereas the Fairmont is sort of boxy. As for proportioning, I think one problem with the Fairmont is that it's actually on a pretty stubby wheelbase for something this size. IIRC, they're about 196" long, but ride a fairly short 105.5" wheelbase. In comparison, something like a 1978-83 Chevy Malibu is only about 193" long, but rides a longer 108.1" wheelbase, so I think that gives the coupe version, at least, better proportioning. The Malibu sedan had a big roofline though, which I thought was too big for the body. They cleaned it up for 1981 though, with a more formal roofline that shortened the roof and lengthened the rear deck.

    I think Fairmonts used 14" wheels, just like a Chevy Malibu or a Plymouth Volare, but I'd imagine that the tires themselves were smaller. I remember my '80 Malibu came with 195/75/R14 tires, so I'd imagine a Fairmont had 185 or maybe even 175 series tires?

    My grandparents had two Fairmont-based cars. First, a 1981 Granada coupe. It was a two-tone brown/beige, thankfully no vinyl top, and I thought it was actually a pretty sharp looking car for the time. The sheetmetal was a bit crisper and beefed up than the Fairmont, which gave it a more substantial, upscale look, but it also seemed to overpower the wheels more, giving it a look like it would be tipsy in spirited driving. They didn't have any problems, but then they only had it about 4 years. Still, given the era, I guess that's a pretty good track record!

    The second was a 1985 LTD. It was reskinned to give it a more modern look, with a sloping front, sloping rear, and sides that were tucked under a bit more, so it didn't look like it was spilling over the wheels as bad. I guess by that time it's possible that they were putting larger tires on them, as well. It actually seemed like a pretty nice car for the times, and I thought did a good job at hiding its Fairmont underpinnings. It had a fuel injected 232 CID V-6 with 120 hp, and was a good highway car. My grandparents took me to Florida for spring break in 1987, and they let me do a lot of the driving. That car would hit 80-85 mph if you didn't watch your speed. I remember my grandmom getting on me for going so fast, but then Granddad would get behind the wheel and go just as fast, if not faster!

    The LTD wasn't as reliable as the Granada, though. I remember it overheating several times, one of them on that trip to Florida. And towards the end of its time with my grandparents, it started stalling out. It gave way to a 1989 Taurus LX.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,097
    Any opinions on 50s Lincolns? Seems like Cadillacs get all the attention.

    I never liked that style of Lincoln because it just looks too diminutive to me. IMO, it just doesn't look like a very upscale car compared to something like a Chrysler/Imperial, Cadillac, or even a Buick, Olds, or DeSoto. I've heard they were pretty good handlers though, for the time.

    I like the '56-57 Lincoln, though. Big, massive cars with presence, but still pretty sleek and cleanly styled. And in a garish sort of way, I'll admit I like the hideous '58-60 models. :blush:
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 11,146
    I had forgotten about the dozens of Fox mutations - kind of like the K-cars. More info here

    Fox variants
  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Member Posts: 4,116
    I didn't realize the T-bird was a Fox body in the 80s. I knew about the Fairmont/Mustang and derivatives but I never thought of the T-bird.
    One of my high school chums had a Zepher wagon with a 302 and another had a BASE Fairmont with the Pinto engine. I don't know if the back windows even went down on the Fairmont or not.
  • akanglakangl Member Posts: 3,282
    I guess its got to happen, I'm going to have to sell the Sebring. First off I won't have the money to fix it this year, so that means it will sit another year which is just silly. Second, my daughter's pony is getting here from Canada about a month earlier than I expected, so I'm scrambling for money to buy panels to put up another corral for him. Those dang panels are expensive little buggers!

    Another reason is I don't drive enough to justify keeping the Sebring. I think I go through about a 1/2 tank of gas in 2 weeks with the Durango. That was one of the reasons I traded the Ram off, just wasn't driving it and couldn't justify its payment anymore.

    I dropped the price on the car to $1250. Hopefully it goes. :sick:
  • seminole_kevseminole_kev Member Posts: 1,696
    akangl - Just hitch the pony to the front of the sebring....
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,788
    heck, in my opinion, if you get 200k miles out of a car and can get ANY money for it, you did just fine.

    $8900 is still way too much for it.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,601
    The Caddys were much more memorable. 49-51 Lincolns had that lead sled styling (along with Mercury of course) that worked OK and some people like. The 56-57 Lincolns are clean designs that aged well, and the 58-60 are huge freakshows. But those 52-55 cars are just so bland, like 5:4 scale Fords or Mercurys. In fact, a 55 Lincoln is much more boring than a 55 Ford or Mercury.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Exactly, the early 50s Lincolns are just tarted up Mercurys and the later ones are horror shows. The Continental Mark II isn't too bad in a big fat clumsy kind of way but hand built though it might be, it doesn't bring much more money than a mass produced '56 Coupe de Ville. So the collector community is as ambivalent about 50s Lincolns as we are.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,097
    I don't know if the back windows even went down on the Fairmont or not.

    Was the Fairmont also a wagon model? If so, it should have had roll-down back windows. They rolled down maybe 3/4 of the way, which was pretty good in an era when many back windows only rolled down about half-way, or in the case of GM's downsized 1978 intermediates, didn't roll down at all!

    With the GM cars, you actually got a minor side benefit of losing the roll-down rear windows. They hollowed out the back doors and recessed the armrests, which gave the cars elbow and hip room comparable to many full-sized cars. And GM claimed that, with the flip-out vent windows they provided back there (in the C-pillars of sedans and in the door quarter window of wagons), air flow to the back seat passengers was actually better than if they had a roll-down window. Probably just marketing bs though, and an excuse to force you to spring for air conditioning. And I'd rather have the roll-down window than the extra elbow room. Even without the little recesses, GM's downsized midsizers were still wider inside than something like a Granada, Fairmont, or Aspen/Volare.

    Chrysler tried eliminating the roll-down back windows on the 1981 Aries/Reliant, giving you just a little flip-out vent. Enough buyers must have complained though, because at some point during the 1982 model year, they switched to roll-down rear windows.

    Y'know, I could almost excuse Chrysler for elminating roll-down windows on a K-car, or Ford doing it on a Fairmont, because these were entry level compacts. However, GM's Malibu et. al. were upmarket from these cars, in a class where something like that shouldn't be tolerated. I'm impressed that Chrysler addressed this issue in the second model year. GM left those downsized RWD intermediates with stationary rear windows right up through the end in 1987, when the Cutlass Supreme sedan was finally cancelled.

    My Grandparents (on my Mom's side...it was my Dad's parents who bought the Fords) had a 1982 Malibu wagon. They bought it in February of 1982, and nobody even thought about rolling down the back windows. I remember the first hot day in April though, I went with them to church, and Grandmom sat in the back seat. She was fumbling around, and finally asked "how the hell do you roll down the window?!" After that, they tended to refer to that thing as "the most expensive cheap car we ever owned!" I think it stickered for something like $11,000 new.

    I think Ford did a pretty good job on the '83-88 T-bird/Cougar, disguising the Fairmont underpinnings. They usually seem better finished than GM's models of the era, like the Monte Carlo, Grand Prix, etc. And Ford did a better job keeping them up-to-date, with fuel injection and such, and I think Ford tried harder to make them handle better, whereas the GM models tended to shoot for that floaty, big-car ride.

    I think I still prefer the GM cars, because they feel roomier inside and just fit me better, but I do like the Ford models, too.
  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Member Posts: 4,116
    Yeah I remember the Reliant windows not going down, when my folks got an '83, the sales guy was pushing an '82 leftover and my folks passed due to the window issue.
    I remember the GM midsized RWDs getting ruled out for that reason too. I do remember sitting in the nausea seat of other people's GM wagons alot.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    You are so right!

    " It just needs a battery"
    " It just needs to be driven"
    " I'm sure it's something minor"
    " It's probably just a fuse"
    " I haven't had the time to clean it up"
    " The A/C just needs a charge"
    " I think the bands just need to be adjusted"
    " It was running fine when I parked it three years ago"
    " It doesn't smoke when it warms up"

    Yeah...right!
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    It just amazes me what people are bidding on some of this JUNK. I'm talking about east coast rustbuckets that don't even run!

    Right now, there is a 1949 Buick Suoer Woody. It's a total rustbucket and the wood is SHOT!

    I forget what it's up to but I was astounded!

    Can Barret-Jackson be the cause of this?
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    What's going on with woodies is that they are very very valuable, so that car is worth $75,000. Now while the person restoring it will definitely lose money, they won't lose ALL of it, as might happen when you restore many other cars.

    Also that woody is a rare car---it's not like people have a lot of choices on what to buy.

    As the sign says in the famous restoration shop near me:

    "All the easy restorations have been done already".

    Woodies were hot before B-J, and compared to the Dodge taxi cabs being sold with Hemi engines in them for $200K, they are still a bargain at $75,000.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Yeah, but this one is junk!

    Another "When I was in HS story"

    I was in a junkyard looking for some part for whatever clunker I was driving when I spotted a decent looking 1951 Ford Woody. I asked the guy what he was going to do with it and he told me he was going to part it out and have what was left crushed.

    Well, this was in the days of the Beach Boys and Jan & Dean and I lived in a beach town. He told me it had a bad rear end and otherwise it seemed to run good. He sold it to me for 100.00. Done deal!

    My parents didn't like the idea of me owning one more car nor did they like it sitting in front of thier house so I sold it, after installing a junkyard third member.

    I think I sold it for 200.00. It was a So. Calif car, rust free, not cherry but really not bad overall.

    The guy who bought it from me loaded three other kids in it and set out to visit an old buddy in Minnesota.

    It didn't make it. The flathead let go in the Dakotas somewhere and a guy in a shop was kind enough to trade my buddy a RUST BUCKET, POS '56 Chevy that actually got them home after several mishaps including a night in jail when my broke buddy got caught stealing a battery for it.

    His parents were out of town so, in desperation he called my mother who wired him bail money.
  • jlflemmonsjlflemmons Member Posts: 2,242
    great story. some day we should all sit down and write a book on our excapades and those of our buddies. Make it mandatory reading for new drivers.

    :shades:
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,601
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    but...why would you want that....that....thing?

    I put this in Shiftright's BNT file

    (Big Nasty Thing)
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 17,761
    I like it. Might even be tempted to buy it if it was in close to that condition, but only, say, $3000. :P

    I like big nasty things, though.
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,601
    I figure, it's like a Range Rover, but it runs :P

    If I had to get a SUV, I would want one of those...a grey market G. I like the bad colors many of them came in too...lots of pukey greens.
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 11,146
    Let's see...5000 pounds...140 HP {edit - my mistake - 88 HP (can that be right???)}...hmmm
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,886
    i would definitely want a 'ghost writer', in case my kids read the book. ;)
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 17,761
    Hahahha..... of the "do as I say, not as I did" crowd?! :P

    I am sure we have all been there in one way or another. In the end we can only prepare them as well as possible - the rest they just have to figure out for themselves.
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
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