Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

lilengineerboy

The '82 528e didn't go so well with the enthusiasts (or anyone who wanted a redline over 4500) so the came out with the 533i in '83 and then the 535i in 84 or 85 through the end of the body style (E28) model run.
That is a 3.5l straight 6 in a relatively small BMW. The later ones (e34) are considerably bigger. I think they are more responsive than a 300E of the era because IIRC the Benz used recirculating ball and chain as opposed to rack and pinion.

benjaminh

My first car was a 69 Pontiac Catalina Safari wagon of just this color. The two way tailgate was way cool. What have they done, however, to the handles to open the rear doors?...bizarre. A trip down memory (and nightmare) lane:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1969-pontiac-gto-catalina-wagon-WOW-NICE-CAR-400-- a-c_W0QQitemZ160112117741QQihZ006QQcategoryZ7244QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Mr_Shiftright

Also what have they done to the AC? Maybe this is one of those big metal Revell kits from eBay.

andre1969

It's hard to tell from those pics in the setting sun, but that greenish-gold makes me think a bit of my old '69 Bonneville 4-door hardtop. I think it was more goldish in color, though.

That car was a piece of junk (moreso because of the way the previous owner, my cousin treated it than anything GM ever did), but I still miss it sometimes. It was a great handling car for its size. When it ran, at least! It tended to overheat, and had a ravenous appetite for starter solenoids.

I always thought it just had a 400 4-bbl under the hood, but then I heard later that the Bonneville came standard with a 428, and the 400 was a credit option. I'll have to look around and see if I still have anything with that Bonneville's VIN on it, so I can look it up sometime.

lokki

Beautiful Dreamer

"I bought it from a elderly lady who checked herself into a nursing home."

Mint condition but $8,000?

Pretty, oh so pretty...

Now HERE'S a Salesman !

Column A or Column B or Column C

I lean towards Column A myself but it's your money or your time.

Is this thing factory?

No, not even $500

I do like these as convertibles

Nice if you like this sort of thing, but I'd prefer some fenders

Mr_Shiftright

86 AM Lagonda---price is fair enough for a beater but God help you if the digital dash blinks out. Or if anything gives out for that matter--then you check out your checking account---balance? ZERO.

'57/59 Dodge coupes--so he's asking top top dollar and has no pictures or model designations or options. AND he has an attitude already about everyone trying to cheat him out of his treasures. Keep the freakin' things buddy.

70 Mustang--what's with the weird striping? Kinda strange.

Model T Roadster--depends on whether it's all-metal or not. If not, who wants it? Hard hard sell if its glass.

94 Ford SHO---uh....try about half that asking price and be grateful to get it.

20" wheels on a 67 Camaro---that should hammer the chassis to smithereens....wear a raincoat and duct-tape the glass to the body. This body is going to flex like nobody's business.

'69 Ghia -- fair enough price if it's really show quality.

urnews

The 1969 looks nice but seems a bit pricey. No details on the motor. Too few details in general.

gsemike

I hate these ads where the guy is selling a modified cars and wants top dollar and all they say is "This car is fast. Best of everything". If you want big bucks, you can at least write a paragraph on what been done. There's a big difference in what passes for fast at the gas n sip and what is bona fide fast.

ghulet

This has been on eBay (and zero bids, shocking)....might be a bargain at a quarter the price (basic Bonneville four door HT with no special options+on flat tires+not driven in ~20 years does not=$10,500):

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1966-Pontiac-Bonneville-Outstanding-classic_W0QQi- - - temZ220107595813QQihZ012QQcategoryZ6417QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Mr_Shiftright

You could buy a Pebble Beach Quality restored one of these for $7,000, so yes, the Buy It Now Price seems ridiculous. Even the opening bid is wildly optimistic.

Value as it sits? Maybe $1,800.

gsemike

The car has some charm, but how can the seller be so stupid? Pull it out of the dirt and inflate the tires.

xwesx

1. It would surprise me if a car would sink that deep on the front axle, just sitting there, in a week's time without some serious ruts leading up to the point of the tire.

2. Seller says it was repainted at some time. Then he says it is the original paint.

3. No photos of the passenger side exterior.

4. Trunk looks like it is hiding rust - somewhat surprising for a car that was garaged its whole life until a week ago.

I dunno, looks like quite a bargain to me! All i have to do is bring new rims/tires with me and I can drive it home! :lemon:

qbrozen

2 totally different cars, but I wanted to see what the experts think.

I don't know how much this guy wants, but this is an amazing looking classic tank.

This SL has my wife's name written all over it. its even in her color.

Mr_Shiftright

Seller is blowing smoke..it's NOT rare "like a 6.3"---it's nothing like a 6.3.

It's just an old used car. Figure $3,500--$5,000 is all the money, same for any old Benz 4-door from the 60s.

380SL--nice, I like those....chrome bumpers, not so porky like the 450SLs. As long as everything works and there's no rust, try to low-ball it.

qbrozen

ya gotta admit, though, that might be one of the nicest old benz 4-doors. I mean, that probably cost alot of money to put it in that condition. probably far more than he'll ever get for it.

so what's a fair price on the 380? is that a reliable model?

andre1969

Looks to me like that Bonneville got parked with the front wheels in the flowerbed, and then someone mulched around it!

As for rust, one thing that's always bothered me about Bonnevilles is all that pot-metal trim along the lower edges of the car. It can hide rust for a long time, until it's so bad that the trim falls off and there's nothing left behind it! Catalinas usually didn't have any trim down there, so there was less chance for dirt and moisture to get trapped, and when rust did start, you'd see it more quickly.

Also looks like some rust is coming through on the lower part of the front fender on the passenger side.

fintail

I like both of those. The sedan isn't worth a lot, people just don't get into them...I think good fintails even bring more. They are nice cars, but there's no potential other than having a nice old car to drive.

That SL looks great, I love the color too. It was called "China Blue", it is related to the color of my fintail. I can't recall ever seeing a 107 in that color, very rare. Nice.

ghulet

As you may have noticed, I have a certain soft spot for mid-to-late-60s domestic land yachts, like this one, which while in great condition, is probably as overpriced as the Bonneville I posted before:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/COLLECTORS-MINT-1969-MERCURY-MARQUIS-4-DOOR_W0QQi- - temZ220108321927QQihZ012QQcategoryZ6882QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Where do people come up with these prices? Again, it's a nice car for what it is, but it's still a pee-green, low-option, '69 Mercury Marquis sedan; it's not low-production, interesting or rare.

Mr_Shiftright

380SL -- 1984s and 85s are best years and the range for nice clean cars with no problems whatsover would be about $9,000 to $16,000.

MB 3.5 sedan -- it's just an old used car. Best thing to do with a 4-door V8 like that would be, in my opinion, to part it out and save that precious and shockingly high priced engine for a 3.5 coupe or cabriolet. It would sure beat a $16,000 rebuild.

Very risky car these 70s V8 sedans---one major component failure and the car (and your total investment) is gone. I call them "German Roulette" cars---one of these days there will be a bullet in the chamber when you turn the ignition key, and then...you're dead....well, your checkbook is dead. It's no fun when your car's engine is worth 3X what the car is worth. It's kind of a ridiculous situation.

ghulet

....cuz those MB sedans are so damn pretty. That one in particular, with the red (perhaps overdyed, it doesn't look 'natural') interior, the floor shift, the sunroof, is very nice. Are the six-cylinder versions (280SE/280SEL) any less costly to keep on the road? I guess in a car like that, I wouldn't particularly care about going fast, and slightly better fuel economy is always nice.

Mr_Shiftright

Hmmm....subjective tastes are so interesting. I find these cars kind of homely. Even the earlier fintail has more grace about it.

I think the 6 would be better all around for a daily driver sedan. The high grille doesn't have the charm of the earlier slanted grilles and dual headlights haven't aged well....BUT...but they are comfy and good cruisers---certainly you could take one the freeways, no problemo....A 280SEC 2.8 six, with a sunroof would be a nicer choice I think--there's upside to value, better fuel mileage and cheaper maintenance costs---and they are reasonable attractive in profile at least.

Of course, you could probably sell a 3.5 convertible in boxes for double a completely restored sedan, sad to say.

So as a cheap daily driver, sure why not? As a "project"? There absolutely no upside to fixing up a car like this. This breed will disappear to make pieces for the 3.5 coupes and convertibles.

fintail

I think the 108s are more elegant than fintails...no fins and wraparound glass that while they add charm, were such shameless pandering to 1959 trends. 108-109 cars are very timeless. But yeah, they are like fintails in that if you want one, spend 5 grand to find a real good one, and just drive it, don't restore it.

210delray

'66 Bonneville: Besides the flat tires, why are the seat belts just heaped on the front passenger floor? If he couldn't bother to reinstall them, at least remove them from the photo?

Where's the accelerator pedal?

He says leather, but I'm pretty sure you could only get vinyl back then (besides cloth of course).

andre1969

He says leather, but I'm pretty sure you could only get vinyl back then (besides cloth of course).

Yeah, that Bonneville just has vinyl. I notice that mistake a lot with old car ads though, where they mistake vinyl for leather. Pontiac used something called "morrokide", but I dunno if that was just their marketing term for vinyl, or if it really was a higher-quality vinyl?

Real leather was offered in the Bonneville for awhile in the earlier 60's, but I think it was phased out by 1966.

andre1969

Call me twisted, but I find myself really liking that '69 Grand Marquis! Definitely not at that price, though! I think this style looks really good in all black, but I like that washed-out green.

I wonder how many miles it really has on it? It looks good, but I notice the seller says 18,500 miles on it since "complete rebuild". I imagine "complete rebuild" is open to interpretation.

texases

Where's the accelerator pedal?

Looks like it's covered by the floor mat, which raises the question-Why did the seller do that? What the floor mat covering? Hmmmmmm...

boomchek

"German Roulette" cars---one of these days there will be a bullet in the chamber when you turn the ignition key, and then...you're dead....well, your checkbook is dead.

That's exactly what happened to my parents' 300D. Granted it was no V8, but because older MB are known for having not the most accurate gauges, the oil leaked out (without them knowing, the oil gauge didn't show anything)and the engine seized up. The estimate was about $5k for a motor rebuild.

And it was the same China Blue as the SL in the ads.

Just a little off topic here, I went to an importer's website (they import 15 year old BMWs and MBs from Japan to Canada) for quite cheap, and noticed some of the 89 up SLs had rear seats. I always thought those were two seaters, unless this was some kind of aftermarket option. Check it out:



These cars seem like bargains as well with decent kms (this one is about $11k CDN).

However for the mileage they look quite worn (especially driver's seats).

jlflemmons

Is that a seat or a padded floorboard? Leg room???

Mr_Shiftright

Hmmm....it looks very "factory", what with the selt belt connectors. No aftermarket company would be so lunatic as to add seat belt fasteners to a car marketed in a country crawling with lawyers....however, in Canada....maybe they'd risk it.

Yeah, that's just a shelf under there...if you had a real padded seat your head would be sticking way up over the windshield...like the Pope...

Did you know that W107s raced in the Trans-Am series in 1981-1982. Needless to say, the Camaros and Mustangs killed them...

texases

I remember several aftermarket back seats made to match factory leather. Not that anyone would want to use them!

Mr_Shiftright

Oh there were many aftermarket rear seats for these W 107 cars but I never saw one with seatbelt connectors built right in. They were just pads you attached to the rear shelf...a jump seat at best. The old "pagoda" 280SLs even had a factory rear "seat" that faced sideways, for one person!

texases

I didn't remember rear seat belts, but here's a place that has seats with belts, along with some good info

SL rear seat

fintail

Must be some other-market item. I once had a large model of a R129, but it was ruined years ago.

The one in that pic is early too, note the W126 style steering wheel.

lokki

These cars seem like bargains as well with decent kms (this one is about $11k CDN).

However for the mileage they look quite worn (especially driver's seats).

Having lived in Japan and driven extensively there, I would caution you to drop your normal association of milage and wear when considering Japanese cars. Although the country is small, it's very crowded and traffic moves slowly.

Instead of milage, you'd be better off knowing 'hours of operation' as they do in airplanes.

I owned a used car with 40,000 Kilometers on it at one point. The turnsignal switch wore out. It didn't break; the contacts wore out from thousands and thousands and thousands of signaled turned in those 40K.

So your worn seats are saying exactly what you think they're saying. "I'm tired!"

fintail

I think good 129s can be a bargain. You can get later ones for under 20K, too.

Last year a friend of the family bought a 96 (I think) SL320 with something like 40K miles on it for under 20K, a one owner Seattle car from a very well to do individual who maintained it by the book. It's a nice ride for the money.

I saw the car last weekend...the owner is someone I have known since I was a child. She's getting older now, around 70 maybe, but has always liked to have a special car, I remember she had an Alfa Spyder and a Porsche 914 when I was growing up, among others (and her husband had a 1950 Caddy convertible). She loves this MB roadster, and I took her for a ride in the E55, which she was impressed with as well.

qbrozen

pssst... its a "spider." get it straight. ;b

speaking of which, my wife had an interesting conversation with a mechanic this past weekend. She's feeling a bit guilty that I don't get to work on my spider, so she called this mechanic not too far away who specializes in italians. I asked that she just get a quote on replacing the rear springs so I can get an idea of his costs (and of course see the quality of his work and knowledge). Anyway, he told her he won't even discuss the car until he can see it in person. We'd have to bring it over so he can assess if he will work on it. If it is in poor shape, he won't.

I kind of look at this from both sides. On one hand, I can probably understand his position. I mean, I can imagine folks like this may have been burned in the past when they present a customer with a bill and the customer walks out, leaving them with a car worth less than the labor. On the other hand, he's immediately put me in a defensive position. My car has to go for an audition??! Just HOW expensive are you??! Is my money not good enough for you??! OK, so you've had problems, but don't tell someone these things on the phone. Give me a quote, ask me to come down, and if my car doesn't meet your "standards" THEN turn me away. Ya gotta get the business in the door before you can pick and choose what you want to do, ya know?

texases

Yes, in my business I'll give a quote "Assuming X, Y, and Z, the cost would be about $$." He could always revise once he sees it. Of course, if he's backed up 6 mos., maybe he doesn't mind being agressive on who he weeds out.

xwesx

Andre, you are definitely twisted. :P

Mr_Shiftright

I can see both sides. There are SO MANY totally ratty rusted screwed up Alfa Spiders out there that one always dreads what poor suffering abomination might roll in the door. On the other hand, all it takes is for him to scope out the car and bend down and look underneath and he'll know all he needs to know. Rear springs on an Alfa is not rocket science by any means. This is pretty simple stuff and if it's a decent car this isn't a tough job for him.

boomchek

The car in the picture is a 89-99 SL, the newer series. the seats looked cramped though.

fintail

Nice color name, car doesn't look awful

210delray

Well, good description, but I don't think any manufacturer would use that name. :P

Mr_Shiftright

"runs and drives" is not a confidence-inspiring phrase.

But it's cheap enough...

texases

Wrong Picture??

Here we go again

"Very Rare"

Run away

Mr_Shiftright

Sterling --- yes but it's only $1...how bad can you get hurt? Well...I'd try to bargain but he might be firm on the price...

Ford Skyliner---rough rough car but as sick as it makes me to say it- he may get close to his price. It's a $30K car when you're done...(that long road ahead....cue music). My offer? If I wanted one, and this thing actually does what the guy says it will do---maybe $6,500. But it's a complete tear down no matter how you look at it and so, no upside in the near future at any rate. You don't see many people worshipping the year 1954 for some reason.

explorerx4

the right rear quarter on that SL looks pretty faded compared to the passenger door and front fender. too bad.

urnews

You don't see many people worshipping the year 1954 for some reason.

LOL.
Boz

texases

What I didn't get - description read like a great car needing a little work, photo looked like a piece of junk.

Mr_Shiftright

Well, relative to raising the Titanic, this is an easy job.

qbrozen

Something has just GOT to be amiss. No location, miles have to be inaccurate (probably rolled over). But looks really clean. Only $2900?? I just don't get it. I'll have to drop him an email.
'76 Spider