Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

andre1969

just for the simple fact that it's so rare you see them anymore. Especially in 4-door hardtop form. I want to get a 4-door hardtop one of these days. I always liked the body style, and to this day occasionally find myself missing my old '69 Bonneville. Piece of junk that it was...

lemmer

If the mechanicals check out, you can't hardly go wrong for a big cruiser. Of course, the 24" spinners are going to set you back a lot more than the car.

fintail

I hope it doesn't end up like that

It's odd...the 67GM larger cars got that swoopy coke-bottle styling...and I don't like it on the Chevys, especially the 2 door Impala. To me it looks fat in comparison with the 65-66, although the sedan isn't as bad. But on the Buick, somehow it works better, it looks OK. I guess a Buick is supposed to be a little heavier looking. I can't recall the last time I saw a 67...I see 69-70s more often, that I recall off the top of my head.

andre1969

about why I like that '67 Buick. I guess you're right in that a Buick should look heavier, beefier, more substantial than a Chevy! Also, I really didn't care for the 2-door hardtops that went to that overly swoopy fastback style in '67-68, so that might be why I like the 4-door hardtops better. I thought the rooflines of the '65-66 hardtop coupes were just about perfect...just rakish enough, without going overboard.

ghulet

...I actually do like the 67-68 Chevies, but the four-doors more than the two-door fastbacks. I LOVE that Buick, that's one of my favorites (the body style AND the fact that it's a Wildcat). The interior is great, I love the seat pattern. I think the longer wheelbase and overall 'largerness' of the Buicks (and Oldsmobiles) of this era lend themselves better to the fastback roofline. Also, the Buick/Olds don't have that 'liquid' look at the top of the rear fenders like the Chevies, the overall look is cleaner. Last, the bigger (I think, anyway) wheels on the more expensive cars help them look a little less pontoon-like.

Reminds me of a very sad story of a guy whose almost identical car (67 Wildcat 4HT) was wrecked on the way home from a car show by some idiot kid; I think someone was killed, might have been the driver of the Wildcat. If I can find the link, I'll post it.

Now for something completely different, and almost as scary:

http://chicago.craigslist.org/car/99015783.html

An abused ten year-old Volvo turbo with 130k. Let's see, a little body work (more than the $150 claimed seems likely), a 'shouldn't be too expensive' blower motor (if they're anything like SAABs, HA!), and, oh yeah, the motor smokes sometimes when running at idle. Aye yi yi, can't imagine why he's selling. So buy this for two grand, put three grand in repairs (I bet), and !viola! you have a car worth $3500 on a good day. The rear-right side photo looks nice, anyway.

lemmer

I am very afraid of that Volvo.

Probably needs a new engine fairly soon as well as a complete paint job. Why does the hood look like that anyway - Did it already have a cheapy paint job when fixing some previous damage? Who knows? Maybe it is good as a beater if you can get it to last a year without something major dying, but good luck with that.

who wants to take a chance on a GT4 with no records?

fintail

I think the 65-66 Impala 4 door HTs look good too, nice and clean. Those were good years for GM as a whole. I still remember the positively mint low mile 65 Caprice 4 door HT that turned up at a local small town Chevy dealer about 10 years ago. It was a nice 2 tone grey/silver IIRC, it had a silver brocade interior still under seat covers, looked as-new. They wanted 6K or something for it...it sold fast. It was a 396. I probably should have tried to buy it...but at age 19 and being tethered to a fintail, I couldn't.

I think that Buick is worth saving for someone. It's cheap, looks usable as is, and is simple. Horrible mileage I am sure, but that's part of having an old car.

What's with the paint on the hood of that Volvo? Reminds me of fire damage. Who knows what all is wrong with that thing. I have a bad feeling about that one

michaellno

If you're afraid of that Volvo, then I am positively terrified of that Ferrari.

"Tachometer doesn't work"

"No A/C"

"No radio"

"No original wheels"

and the biggie ----

"No records"

To which I would respond

"NO WAY"

andre1969

as to what kind of mileage that Wildcat would get. How much hp was the 430 putting out by then? I've been able to break 17 mpg on the highway with my '67 Catalina convertible, with a 400-4bbl. I dunno how much hp it has, as it's not stock, but I think the standard 400-2bbl put out 290 hp. So I'd guess maybe 325-330? If that Wildcat has a big motor and a tall rear end, it might get decent highway mileage. Well, decent in that context, at least!

Around town though, I see more like 9-11 mpg. And worse, lately, since it hasn't been driven much. I'm trying to change that, in spite of the gas prices.

lemmer

Oh Yeah?

I just found a scarier Italian

Maybe scarier, but Hemmings Sports & Exotic recommends these in their latest issue. They also corrected my pronunciation. They say it is said "Bee-Turbo."

If Shifty sees these, he just might puke up his lunch.

stickguy

I agree, the Ferrari gives me the chills. The Volvo could be usable if it was cheap enough, but I wouldn't spend much on it. I think the paint puts it into the drive it until it breaks and dump it catagory.

Actually, Shifty might like the Ferrari. It could fit his theory of buying real cheap, and just drive it until something breaks, then junk it. At least that gives you cost certainty, if not time certainty!

hey, spend 4k on it. If you get a year, great. If you get a week, oops. Kind of like playing rushian rullette with your wallet.

Just don't expect to fix everything.

stickguy

a rusty, ratty 1970s Maser, with an AT no less? Where do I sign up!

I will take the Ferrari for the same money if I have to choose

stickguy

an "easy and cheap" resto of a rusted out Bee turbo that has been sitting for 8 years? Does his crack pipe get included if you make reserve?

Wonder if the one bid ($999.99) is legit, poor soul.

lemmer

And if you blow the engine, you can just put it back on eBay as an "EZ Fix" and get way more than it is worth.

Mr_Shiftright

I don't want a GT4-----NOBODY wants a GT4.

A GT4 is the most worthless, despised, undesirable Ferrari ever made. $15,000 for a nice one would be about right. They are the hairy deformed hunchbacks of the Ferrari world.

FREE is too much for one of those.

stickguy

I would take it for free! I as actually thinking of 3-4K as is, just to bomb aruond in and hope you get lucky. Maybe you could part out the drivetrain after that?

Will a Chevy 350 fit in one of these? (ducking for cover...)

Besides, I need back seats for my 2 kids.

ANd yes, I would buy that car for that a couple grand, just so I cold say I own a Ferrari (not that I want to be a poser or anything). I'm sure it stil sounds good!

eriously, I do remember you having a theory that if you can buy something fun cheap enough, use it until it breaks and throw it away. Sounds like a good candidate.

fintail

How about a demo car or a rally car?

Mr_Shiftright

Well look--it's UGLY, it eats money like a whale eats krill and you can't sell it to anybody. If that's not a winning combination for a car, I don't know what is.

Putting a Chevy in doesn't solve anything really---then you have a car that NEITHER a Ferrari lover or a Chevy owner wants!!!

lemmer

Ok, I guess we will fold the Ferraris, but I take it you like the Maseratis? Just kidding.

andre1969

about holding or folding, but I kinda like that '71 Maserati. OTOH, that little Biturbo convertible thingie looks like a candidate for the crusher. And even if it were in nice shape, it would still make a Renault Alliance convertible look pretty!

lemmer

Maybe you could put in a "V12" like the one in this Lambo.

Look at the engine pictures carefully. They are pretty funny.

Mr_Shiftright

You know, you didn't even have to warn me on this one. I looked at the picture and INSTANTLY the whole catastrophe jumped out at me....the car looks SO WRONG....

RE: Bi-Turbo -- there is a tragic thing about this car. It cannot be fixed to run right. That's right, it is impossible. Not the best genius with all the money in the world could make this car right (unless they yanked out the engine and threw it over a fence of course). This is one of a few truly "unfixable" cars, at least not fixable for any discernible or credible length of time. The Triumph TR7 is another, the Saab 99E another (cousins of a sort). Some "bad" cars can be fixed and remain more or less stock, like the Triumph Stag and the Jaguar XJ6, but a Maser Bi-Turbo, well lots of luck and may god have mercy on your soul. This is the worst car in the entire world and probably that includes other solar systems as well. I'm not sure what the "2nd worst car in the world is" -- probably the TR7 and maybe the Triumph GT6. Even a Chevy Vega you can sleeve the engine.

RE: THE AGONY OF SHIFTRIGHT

Well, we finally got the new clutch in the Porsche 928. What a diff. It shifts like, as they say in New York, "like buddah". Seems that the throw out bearing disintegrated and wiped out the pressure plate. NOTE TO READERS: Do not drive too long with a noisy throw out bearing.

So we are now $1,000 poorer (double disk clutch, but you don't have to remove the transmission!). Next agony, the water pump. One of those "while you're in there" jobs. The timing belt is something like 7 feet long! This should be fun.

But you know, you take a Camry V-6 in California and go to a shop and have the water pump, timing belt, all hoses and all belts and various seals redone, and it's gonna be $900 bucks anyway. At $120 an hour labor, there is no escape out here for high repair bills--even a Japanese car cannot save you.

lemmer

Does the 928 shift better than a '99 Z28 now? Please tell me it does.

Mr_Shiftright

LOL! It shifts smoother but since it has very beefy gears it doesn't shift FASTER. But the Z28 shifter feels like it might break off in your hands at any moment. Got to admit, the Z trans itself is a good sturdy unit.

Another funny thing about that Z28---previous owner reports that the "check engine light" has been on for over 3 years and that nobody anywhere in the world has been able to shut it off-- a suggestion to drive a metal punch through the dash display was rejected.

Oh, ---I pressed the power window switch and it fell in the door---honest. That's okay, my Porsche power window glass did the same thing a few months ago.

This is OLD CAR BLUES -- after many miles of hard use, you have NO IDEA what weird things might happen----metal fatigue, and age-related stress on parts.

fintail

"The only reason I'm selling is because I can't afford the body work" is not a good sign

Catalina for Andre...a bit of a fixer upper

stickguy

hard to tell from the pics, but looks lke it could be a good project if you want to do the work yourself, but that depends on how bad the rust is where you can't see it, and how bad you want a '68 baracuda, which probably isn't worth that much anyway (maybe a clean 383, certainly a rare Hemi). Buy cheap, work yourself, don't dump in too much money, and have fun.

The Catalina? I would say why bother listing it, but the ads are free. Car not worth that much.

Also saw another survivor for Andre, at the bottom of the Chevbo listing (other Ebay listings): a 1974 Chrysler Newport, with 55K original miles. Looked good, but what a barge!

Actually, that place in Idaho seems to be project cars gone wild heaven. Also noticed a Nova wagon pro street oddity, and a '72 Cuda that I didn't look at.

lemmer

I see nothing but an upside on that Catalina. I mean it even "ran when parked."

stickguy

There are an amazing number of cars that ran perfectly, but the owner decided to park it in a field and not touch it for 10 years anyway!

Even if it did, might not matter much at this point 9since sitting unprepped outdoors for a long time isn't likely to help the engine much).

Mr_Shiftright

you mean "ran into a tree and THEN parked"? :P

Well now...you could probably buy this car REALLY NICE for $15,000. So we have to ask, if you threw $15K at this wreck what would you have? You'd have about 50% of a nice '67 Catalina.

Yeah, I love the "ran when parked comment". I can hear the owner now:

"Yep, I loved this car. Always wanted to restore it, but never quite had the time. So I decided to park it outside, leave the windows open and remove the spark plugs, and abandon it for 15 years. Sure gonna miss it, just hate to sell 'er".

andre1969

I have no idea what my '67 Catalina would be worth these days, but I only paid $3775 for it! Of course, that was way back in 1994... Still, $15,000 sunk into that wreck of a '67 probably wouldn't even get it as nice as mine!

I wonder what they did to it to get the grille like that? :surprise: I know that the beaky Pontiacs with the bumper/grille combination had a habit of distorting somewhat like that in a rear-end collision. My cousin's ex-wife rear-ended a car with their '69 Bonneville (the one I ultimately bought), and it pushed the beak in, and popped the outer parts of it outward. However, whatever they did to this '67 took talent! I don't think it was in a very hard accident, because otherwise I'd think the hood would be damaged. There's a metal part that sits above the bumper/grille and ahead of the hood, that holds the upper headlights, and I'd think that in an accident, it would push back into the hood and damage it.

But, who knows? Maybe the doors and glass might be salvageable, and the hood, trunk, taillights, and some interior trim? I wonder how rotten the rear quarter panels are? I also wonder how long ago it was "parked"?

fintail

Yeah, the Catalina is a sad $100 parts car...I just thought Andre would get a kick out of it

Locally I have seen more than one old broken down mess described as "ran at one time" - you don't say! It was a new car at one time, too.

lemko

...sometime back in the Carter Administration.

andre1969

ran when parked. I parked it on a spot in my grandmother's yard that I thought was out of the way, but then a few weeks later, my uncle decided he wanted to chop down a nearby mulberry tree. I went to start up the car, which had been running fine until then, and it refused to start. I ended up having to chain it to my NYer and pull it out of the way!

And naturally, I put it in another spot in the yard that I thought was out of the way...near two locust trees that, a couple months later, my uncle decided he wanted to have taken down. So I had to move it again!

But, it ran when I parked it! :P

martian

The car is in decnt shpe-but needs new fron caliper 9old ones frozen). A spot of exterior rust on rear quarter panels, paint is faded badly 9but still OK color). Interior: shabby-lots of spiderwebs and mouse droppings-rotted upholstery, but seat springs OK. The engine leaks oil, compression on cylinders 1 and 2 marginal (head gasket)?
I realize this an oddball, but i've always like the loks.
1st question: are parts available?
2nd: will this ever be worth more than a few hundered dollars?
3rd-are there so few around that the car will have some value in 10-20 years?

andre1969

that a '58 Golden Hawk in that condition would still be worth saving. It seems like Hawks have had a pretty good survival rate, and I see them occasionally at car shows and swap meets, so somebody's finding a way to restore them and get parts for them! I'd imagine it's the "regular" Studebakers, like the upright, clunky sedans and hardtops from that era, that would be next to impossible to find parts for.

I think the Hawks are a bit of a minor collectible. They'll probably never be in the same league as a '57 Chevy Bel Air convertible with fuel injection, but still a cut above a typical sedan from that timeframe.

fintail

Looks like a nice old land yacht for a grand

andre1969

I really like that one! Wonder how much the fuel bill would be to get it back here?

lemmer

I don't like it. To me it is the equivalent of a minivan of the '70s. Just looking at reminds me of being carsick and fighting with my big sister on long trips. Shudder.

michaellno

Wow .. I oughta buy that and give it to my daughter to drive.

Seems to be in pretty good condition.

How about these?

Price seems a bit steep, but he claims to be the original owner

A free Porsche! Oh, you mean I have to supply the engine, transmission, interior and wheels and tires?

Again, perhaps too much to ask for this

And. to top things off for today, we present this:

Why would anyone average 1500 miles a year in something like this?

fintail

Probably something like 2800 miles...can't imagine that thing getting more than 15mpg...at $3/gal that comes to $560 I guess

fintail

You could probably do worse than that Cimarron. Remove the cheesy tint and take it to GM shows as a special interest car.

That Impala is several times more than it should be.

andre1969

1963 Pontiac Hearse

Only problem is, it looks like it's just a station wagon with a raised roof, instead of one of those big, extra-long hearses.

lemmer

I like the Camaro for about $1200.

The guy should put the Porsche on ebay. Some fool would pay something for it.

The Impala is really making me want to puke. We had a brown '76 4-door. Huge engine, go slow - bad combination.

I posted a Cimmaron a couple of weeks ago that wasn't as nice. I think it sold for something like $835.

lemmer

If it doesn't scare old ladies and children, what it the point?

maybe if this was black with skulls on the hood

Here we go. A little better

There are tons on ebay. Go to ebay motors and search "hearses." They even have an old Packard.

andre1969

Lemko, this is just screaming out for you!

Salvageable old Buick

Beastly Delta

Classy Caprice

Suicide Door Lincoln

This actually seems cheap, and a bit tempting to me!

michaellno

Interesting that the Lincoln pix seems to have been taken in the winter!

stickguy

For Free, I would take it and drag it home, just to play with. It would give me an excuse to buty a welder and some tolls, just to use it as a cadaver to practice on.

That, and it would really, really bug my wife!

Love his price: free, but he's flexible. Guess that means he will entertain offers to pay someone to take it away?

stickguy

Andre, given your tastes, if that Lincoln is as nice as presented, it does sound like a good deal. An actually, viable project car!

Mr_Shiftright

Don't know about the "appreciating classic" comment though. If it's selling for $1,750 after 33 years, my Excel chart shows that it might be around the year 2085 before you make any serious money back on it. But of course we have to account for inflation, when a loaf of bread will cost $119.

stickguy

I was thinking it would be the investment he would retire on, just a decent car to have fun with for not too much money, that you are likely to not lose money on if you sell in a few years.