Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

lemmer

1983 Porsche Flood Car -- $5,000 opening bid??!!! What is he NUTS???!!!

That is what I thought too, but he got a bid already.

michaellno

Project car? No ... just a parts car

Since we've been talking about MB's....

One for Shifty...

Don't know anything about the market values of these; is this a good price?

Another Benz....

Price seems a bit steep; half the value is probably wrapped up in the stereo

If Andre is looking to replace the Silverado, this might be a good candidate

fintail

Prettier than average SLC but they are just about worthless anymore, practically nothing more than the big sedans. A Mercedes disco-mobile. The 108 is just so-so, I think they all survived.

xwesx

"Blue on the outside, rough on the inside."

LoL. No mystery what happened to the last owner judging by that hole in the seat! Andre should jump on this one; what good is an '85 1/2 ton anyway?! :P

Mr_Shiftright

Oh that bid MUST be phoney...I can't imagine anyone being that dumb and surviving long enough to own a computer.

That car is worth maybe $500 if it's been underwater. You've got an engine core (the cases), maye a used crankshaft and some sheet metal....that's it. This is SALT water remember (or brackish).

Mr_Shiftright

Hmmmm....that Porsche 928 is exactly like my car! Value? If it's beautiful, maybe $4,500--$6,000 tops. You can buy much newer 928s with the better transmission and 4 cams for $9999.

70 Cougar -- if the car is really nice, yeah, it's worth $8,000 because of the 351 engine. But if it's in any way raggedy-[non-permissible content removed], the lower retail value he posted is more like it. $8K is an "excellent" grade.

72 Impala -- hmmm...wrong engine, that's bad, so it's more like a street rod type car....if it were a very sharp stock 454, that could bring his price but as is, I'd have to say $7,500 is all the money, maybe $8,500 for the sounds, wheels, etc. Any more than that, and you're buried.

280SEL -- kind of a nothing car...parts missing, ratty interior...well, maybe $1,500 is fair enough

54 Chevy -- could easily be worth the money if it runs well and you don't mind going about 45 mph in a 3/4 ton washing machine. Best thing to do with this is put a regular pickup bed on it and slap some seat covers and rubber mats in 'er, and you'd come out with a small profit I think.

450SLC -- if it's a sharp car, price is quite fair, a slight bargain. I'm surprised, this dealer is right on with this price and way off with the Porsche 928....he should reallly raise the price on the 450SLC to $6,500 and knock it off the 928 and he'd sell both cars faster.

jrosasmc

I saw your earlier comment about the 560SL you examined- it costs $1800 just to turn off that little SRS light?

Mr_Shiftright

Well they had to replace some expensive stuff in the airbag system. My point was that if you buy one of these old cars and someone pulls a light bulb out on you or it's bright sunlight and you don't see the bulb (I didn't see it until I pulled into the garage), you can get bit in the butt very quickly with an old Benz.

ghulet

....much nicer than most, but I can't imagine, even with the slightly 'rare' body style, that it's going to be too easy to sell a thirty-odd year-old guzzly V8 Benz (is there any worse year for cars than 1974?) right now. I mean, the only thing it really has going for it is looks, and there are better cars for that, though maybe not for $4k. Don't the 450s run into the five figures for engine rebuilds, too?

ghulet

...has anyone seen values on 300CEs lately? Kind of a nice blend of SEC style (though an even smaller back seat) with 300E reliability. The later CE-24s are pretty quick, too (though are the 24v as reliable as the earlier versions?).

Mr_Shiftright

450s are kinda dogs to drive. I'm not sure what their appeal is other than low price and a drop top on the SL. Real money pits. Avoid at all costs and go earlier or later in the SLs.

jaserb

"(is there any worse year for cars than 1974?)"

Hey, now. '74 was actually OK - the really onerous bumper and emissions requirements were still a year or two away. I think the MGB did switch to rubber bumpers that year, but the Alfas and Datsun Z cars still had nice chrome bumpers. Emissions hadn't quite killed off the big block muscle cars yet - you could still get an SD 455 Firebird or a 454 Corvette. '74 is actually considered a very good year for Alfas - it's the last year for the Bertone GTV and the chrome bumper Spiders. The fuel injection system on the Alfas was clean enough that they didn't need a cat or smog pump or anything. Out of the box the '73 and '74 Alfas are the quickest mainstream cars Alfa ever sold here in the US.

So while by and large things were going downhill in '74 there were still some bright spots. I don't think you can say the same about, say, '78. Maybe the release of the Mustang II was enough to overshadow all that, though...

-Jason

jrosasmc

The MGB and Midget both went to the rubber bumpers and smog-choked engines in 1975. And speaking of Alfas I was once told by a reputable Alfa master technician that one must avoid the 80-81 models because the Spica systems were so terrible that year.

Mr_Shiftright

Nonsense...spica is a good system if you know how to set it up.....it's like SU carbs, only fearful to the unknowing.

I think 75-77 were the worst years ever for most cars.

pumpkinfish

There is a guy selling a 1971 Opel GT for about $4k. What do you guys think about these cars? It gets a lot of looks, but no serious buyers. Is he overpriced? Car appears sound, but I haven't investigated more than a casual glance and peek at the interior.

fintail

CEs are going down just as all older MB are , as they are considered to be just used cars now. AFAIK the 24 valve cars are just as solid as the older models too. Excellent ones shouldn't hit 10K, with only the convertibles breaking that number. A pretty good deal if you can find a cared for example.

ghulet

....for $4k, it had better be in better-than-nice condition. Kind of a cute car at the time (referred to as the 'mini-vette' by some), but I don't imagine getting parts or service right now is much fun or too easy, they're not particularly quick, and they tend to rust. I think I could find something I like better for $4k (like that 450SLC), but that's just me. You definitely would own a car you don't see ever day.

Mr_Shiftright

It had better be the best one in the world for that price, otherwise discount mightily.

The Open GT comes in two flavors. Mint condition for $4,000 and worthless otherwise.

Problem is one of supply and demand. Nobody really cares about this car.

michaellno

Price seems a bit high; is it worth restoring?

And this is at the other end of the spectrum, so to speak

jaserb

Actually, he's right about the '80 and '81 cars. By that time the regulations had been tightened enough that the Spica mechanical injection system had reached the end of its useful lifespan. To pass the regulations in '80 and '81 Alfa used a "monofarfalle" intake that had only a single butterfly valve instead of individual valves for each cylinder and generally choked the engine to within an inch of its life. Ruined the reliability, gas mileage, drivability, etc. These cars you can make a very good case for scrapping the Spica and going to Webers, or at least an earlier Spica system. It's kind of similar to the '73-'74 Z cars - the only way to fix the carbs is to chuck them and install proper SUs from a '70-72 model.

In '82 Alfa switched to Bosch elecronic FI, which was much more reliable and emissions friendly, even if it did lack the performance and tunability of the Spica system.

-Jason

martian

I drove one of these years ago, and it was pretty much a dog-slow and poor handling. However, it had a fiberglass body..so a few must have survived. is there any market for thse cars today? or was it one of those mistakes that every car maker occassionally makes?

stickguy

I always liked these for some reason. But, I believe parts supply is a bear, so if you are going to be chaisng the world for an obscure part, it better be for a more valuable car than this one.

Also, I believe they were more flash than sizzle (a sheep in wolves clothing).

stickguy

at less than 2K, at least you can't overpay by much.

I think this is the classic project car (if you happen to want one in nice shape). Beat up enough that you will get buried financially (or time wise) restoring it (that is, put in more than it is worth). But, it is in just good enough condition (eems complete) that you can talk yourself into taking it on (just a little body work some paint,...).

If it had a 4 speed and less rust, maybe it would make a nice hot rod project, or clone that drag race special they made off of these (the name of which escapes me at the moment).

fintail

No pic, but sounds like an Andre-mobile

No upside, but looks like a pasable driver

Mr_Shiftright

Galaxie XL --- the 390 engine is an "add" for value, but still it's not a car worth very much in the end. It would have to be a convertible to be worth restoring. It looks like the car needs everything, and there's really nothing special about it. If it had a real big block code, well maybe then.

'56 Packard -- better than a '55, price is okay I think, you have a little room there, maybe $4,000 to spend before you are upside down.

Alfa Spider -- oh, that's right....but you can just change out the manifold I think, or as you say, add Webers. Generally speaking Spica cars run stronger than the Bosch injection cars---they seem to rev better, especially the 1750cc engines.

lemmer

Is this Suzuki a passenger vehicle or an ATV? I think it might make a nice golf cart.

super rough Austin Healey

1969 porsche lazer 917 - you would have to pay me to take this

Mr_Shiftright

Oh, yum, let me at that ChevroPorsche.... I especially like the removable doors (very handy) and the rusted, greasy 350 block. Nice touch!

A-H Sprite -- yikes, some cars really get tortured. What can you say? It's certainly not worth restoring because it's only a late model lowly Sprite. $6,500 for Pebble Beach quality, so you got nowhere to go here at all. Couple pieces here and there. $50 bucks is plenty.

Suzuki's cute -- the pair of them are worth $1,295, price bid, but not too much more. Also if you read closely, sounds like they don't have actual titles. That's not good.

stickguy

I like the Suzuki, but 360CC? no wonder it's slow! Upgrading the engine sounds like a good idea if you plan to actually drive it.

Actually, since the green one looks sound, could be a nice project. Easy to work on, but wonder how esy it is to get parts (there must be what, 20 total parts onthe car?)

lemmer

In Georgia, and Alabama too for that matter, you can't get a title issued on older vehicles. The only way you can have a title is if an old owner has held onto one over the years, and even then you can't get is transferred to your name.

I guess it wouldn't bug me too much on a $1300 car.

Many of the rich housewives in my neighborhood drive golf carts. Some of them have the street licensed electric ones that you buy at Chrysler dealers. Many of the kids have little go carts, gas-powered scooters, or minibikes. I tell you I could be king of the sidewalks with that little Suzuki. They are 1378 lbs 126 inches long. A new EZ Go golf cart is 1014 lbs, 133 inches for the family sized one. This idea is starting to sound really good.

fintail

Mr. Mint Fiero lowered his price

I know these are too common and can be a chore to work on, but it seems like a nice example for cheap

lemmer

If I had any inclination to own something like them, I would buy both of those cars.

I know the Fiero gets a bad rap, but I don't dislike them. As long as you don't push them at all they feel slightly fun and sporty tooling around town.

stickguy

looks like a driver, not a project car. But, for something like this that has no real value (no matter how nice it is), that's the only way to buy one. If you get a fixer-upper, you will be buried in no time.

I think the Fieros had issues early on, but classic GM, when they finally got it right, they killed it. A late car, preferably a GT type, could be a fun toy for fairly low $$

lemmer

Porsche Truck

andre1969

they don't have any pics posted of that '77 NYer. Lilac with a red interior sounds like it oughtta be quite a sight!

Mr_Shiftright

Oh I WANT that Porsche 928 pickup, bigtime. Damn, if I had $5K extra I'd bid on it.....however, I'd go to LV first and check on this "minor" oil leak of one quart per week. That doesn't sound good. The other stuff is easy to fix. I could travel around the country hauling back parts from all the 928 beaters for sale on craigslists in all 50 states.

FIERO -- $3,500 is fine as long as you realize that no matter how much you put into it, no matter how nice you make it, no matter what the Fiero Club tells you....when you go to sell it you'll get $3,500 for it.

VW BUG ---- G-R-E-A-T buy if the car is straight. Grab it and flip it for $2K profit EASY.....

fintail

Eh...I look at most unrestored old cars as projects...because sooner or later something will go horribly wrong, and you'll have a project on your hands.

Not the prettiest thing, and it's too expensive, but these are just about all gone now. Nice state of preservation and cool-ish steering wheel too

andre1969

instead of putting all that money into my '85 Silverado on the gas tank work, maybe I should've just bought this!

fintail

Could the ad say or show less?

Another low mileage old Caddy that's really worth no more than a higher mileage example

Future vintage racer maybe

Mr_Shiftright

Mach 1 -- actually the ad says it all "BEATER"

Ford Cortina -- not to be confused with a Lotus Cortina.

lemmer

Mercury with huge celebrity provenance

A pile of VW parts more or less, what is the car in the background, anyway?

bright MGA - cheap

andre1969

I'm not sure, Lemmer, but I think that car in the background is a VW 411, or something like that? I think I actually have a couple of miniatures of that car packed away somewhere, for an N-scale train set that I have from my childhood.

lemmer

I like the Cortina, especially for the price.

As for the Caddy, cars from the recently deceased creep me out. The guy in the next office over drives a Buick from an estate sale (two years ago), and he hasn't bothered taking off the front license plate featuring the dead guy's monogram.

stickguy

Well, the Mach 1 certainly qualifies as a project! But, I would have to see it up close. From the ad, I can only assume it is completely shot. Weird to have a better picture of the owner than the car!

At least (in today's muscle car crazy times), a clean mach 1 4 speed has some value. Maybe not as much as a 428CJ, but at least if you spend a bundle making it perfect, it won't be a $3,500 car anyway.

Now, I like the Cortina, even if it isn't the version with the curvy hips. The AT eliminates it for me though. If it was a stick, and as solid as presented, I would buy it for $500 just to have smoething fairly simple to play with (hench, making it my project). Clean it up, and make some upgrades to trun it into a perios "hot rod" car.

**Always keep in mind with me comments that I have strange taste in what I like in old cars.**

martian

I always liked these cars 9for some unknown reason). You see a few from time to time-and because they never sold in large numbers, I'm sure good ones are hard to find. Anyway-that weird electronic dash display (CRT based0 are they repairable? Reatta was a car that was ahead of its time-wonder if they might become a minor classic!

stickguy

the VW in the background is a 412 (I never can remember the difference between the 411 and 412 though). I took my driver's test on a 412 wagon (my grandmother's car). A truly evil machine. I never understood how a car with the engine in the rear could have soch heavy steering. That, and they liked to burst into flames just for spite.

That Comet is a laugher. Was that the car Ty owned in high school, while waiting for his big break?

The MgA looks decent, but given how cobbled together it is, very scary. Still, could be fun if it was done right.

lemmer

People collect them, but they aren't worth much of anything - kind of like a poor man's Allante' (in collectibility terms, anyway). If you like them, you should get a really nice one for cheap.

stevedebi

"A truly evil machine. I never understood how a car with the engine in the rear could have soch heavy steering. That, and they liked to burst into flames just for spite."

Maybe they flamed because of the heater. This model burned gasoline in a little furnace to heat the car, rather than using the engine heat. Of course, in a cold climate those air cooled models didn't generate a lot of engine heat.

On the positive side, models with a clock had an alarm that would turn on the gas furnace and interior fans, thus providing a warm car for those winter mornings when you got into the car.

jrosasmc

Are VW 411s/412s even collectible vehicles at all?

stickguy

Yeah, it was the heater that did the damage. Really dumb design.

And no, the few that are left are not collectible, unless you are a masochist.

xwesx

A friend of mine has an ex-military M37 in original form that has one of those gasoline-fired "personnel heaters." However, the M37 heater is mounted on the exterior of the vehicle, on top of the left fender. It has a 4" port that routes the heated air into the cab.... probably a bit safer in terms of fire!