Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

Mr_Shiftright

Price on the 57 Windsor is just about market correct for a strong #3 car. Not a high dollar automobile, the 57 Windsor series, even hardtops or converts would sell well under a '65 Mustang equivalent example for instance. Fun ride for the money but you won't get rich.

lemmer

Obviously these people are not following our brilliant advice on project car purchases:

Laser 917

flood 911

944 with blown engine

Biturbo scap metal

TA VIN and parts not sold at $6500?

Based on these auctions, there has to be a way to buy total junk for a couple of hundred dollars and turn it into a couple of thousand. Of course there has to be some shill bidders and deadbeats mixed in here somewhere.

Mr_Shiftright

Well you have to market these project cars cleverly....the trick is to give the "promise" or the hope of success without either saying too much to get yourself indicted for fraud but also not being too discouraging.

None of these bidders will EVER EVER come out alive on these purchases. They are all very naive buyers. The flooded 911 bidders are the most stupid of all. They need to read the price guides.

lemko

Shoot, I'm almost tempted to fly out there myself. That Windsor looks like it would be a fun daily driver for the summer. The Chryslers seemed to be better assembled than their Dodge and Plymouth counterparts.

lemmer

Mustang "Nachos Bell" Grande

Stag with Ranger engine

really original Nova

You don't see too many Rancheros

72 Cutlass

These TCs are rare, thankfully

stickguy

looks like a solid base, but not a care that is valuable as is, so a nice candidate for a nice build up/clone/whatever. A viable project if the price stays reasonable.

Can't really see why this one would be more valuable as a survivor, but what do I know.

stickguy

That Stag, I don't even know what to say, but the engine swap might even increase it's value! Too bad they didn't go with a manual tranny. But, I wouldn't touch it.

the Nova, same as the Mustang (good bones for a hot rod project), except the 4 doors let that option go.

If you like this type of beast, get the Ranchero cheap (engine knock? Not good), and drop in a nice crate big block and have something unique.

The Cutlass looks like a good bomber for a high school kid, but I wouldn't want it as a project, since I think it will have a lot more problems as you start to dig into it, and rust never sleeps.

fintail

It's an oddball and is a real project, but wagons are popular right now

Mr_Shiftright

The old Dodge wagon would make a great retro-rod. I'd buy it if it wasn't too rusty. You have to watch where they A pillar is secured to the floor/frame area. If that is all crusty under there and you have to lift the body---ugh!

Love that old thing...all it needs is is a 383 and overdrive trans and we are in business.

lemmer

TR7 with 300ZX turbo engine

Mr_Shiftright

Why go through all that trouble and then paint the car BROWN?

stickguy

Smart? It's brilliant! the perfect project to buy, after it's done, for about $.10 on the dollar of build cost.

What's not to love? It takes the worst feature of the car (well, other than the styling) and replaces it with one of the best engines ever made. Also way overpowering the chassis, which should be loads of fun.

Heck, I would buy it (at least for the price it is at, or up to ~1k) just for the novelty, even though it is a nasty color.

I actually do like TR7 convertibles, so that's a plus.

I read the questions, and it sounds like the engine might be hinky (not a real Nissan turbo set up), so it is likely to grenade at any time, but fun in the meantime.

I wouldn't use it as a hi mile daily driver, but for a weekend toy (1-2K a year), it's viable.

Now, if I was doing it, I would have stuck in a Mazda rotary. At least it would have fit better, and their might even be a kit for it.

stickguy

check out the guys other oddballs on Ebay. A '79 capri drag car (slicks in the front seat, fast but spongy brakes, a good combo), and a '69 Chevy burban 3 door ambulance. That one has possibilities as a street rod.

lemmer

I didn't know what he meant by "drag slicks in the car" but he meant exactly what he said. He also could have said "possibly important parts located in a Folgers can in the back."

lemmer

Me thinks it isn't a 1991 engine, but an older version.

jaserb

There's a really decent looking one for sale down the street from where I work. Silver, looks to be a well cared for original. Decent paint, worn but intact interior. All in all it cleans up pretty nicely. Asking price is only $1200, which seems way cheap to me. Could be a lot of fun for not much $$$. I guess it's not really a project car, since I'd just drive it as is.

-Jason

Mr_Shiftright

No, old RX-7s are very cheap, practically worthless in book value if they have any needs inside or out. A mint one might be worth $2,500--$3,000, ready for Pebble Beach. $1,200 sounds market correct for a clean driver.

Reason? People are afraid of them (for good reason), not many shops work on them (for good reason).

jrosasmc

Does one have to be certified in rotary-engine work (read: ASE master tech)?

Mr_Shiftright

I don't know about that, but rotary engines are precision made and a backyard guy with a dirty work bench and the desire to cut corners isn't going to cut it.

Best RX-7 you could buy is one with a blown engine and otherwise beautiful for $100----then you put in a new or rebult crate engine from mazdatrix or one of those guys. This way you are starting off right with the engine and you can take care of it as Mazda required.

jrosasmc

Shifty, I remember you telling me all about the weaknesses about the rotary, the least of which are a thirst for oil and seals that wear quickly. (Also the need for regular oil changes)

But they can still last 150k+ miles if maintained, I presume?

fintail

Another good enough looking old land yacht for the money

lemmer

Does anyone what the appeal was in those huge two door cars in the 60s and 70s? I don't suppose they are very sporty to drive, and a lot of them don't look any better than their two door counterparts.

lemmer

I had an '84 RX-7. It ran perfectly for a year, then had complete and total failure at just under 90,000 probably from lack of proper care from the previous owner. What stunk is that there was no warning - no loss of power, no smoke, no nothing.

This was in 1992. I had no money to repair it so I put in the penny saver listed at $1000. By the end of the first day, my answering machine was full of messages and I already had $1000 in cash in my hand. It was a base model that had some body damage and an interior that was average at best.

First and second generation RX-7s were very reliable other than the engine, and the engine usually only failed early due to poor care by the owner. The third generation cars were a little different - a ton more power and an expected engine life of maybe 75,000 miles if you babied it.

michaellno

My sister owned one for about 10 years. It was an '84 or '85, GS trim, bought used in '87. She absolutely loved that car. Baby blue, blue interior, stick shift. She added a rear wing at some point.

On the rare occasions when I was able to drive it, I found it amazing that 100HP could be so much fun.

She sold it after having her first child in 1997 ... I think she got $2200 for it, and cried the day the guy came and picked it up.

andre1969

those full-sized Fords from around 1968-1970 or so just didn't look big enough to me. Compared to, say, a '70 Fury or a '70 Impala, they almost look mid-sized! They also just look kinda blah compared to the handsome 1965-67 models, and not as filled out as the '71-72 models, which had a bit of Pontiac-ish beak going on.

Still, for the money that '70 Galaxie looks to be a decent car. And I'd imagine with a 390 it wouldn't be a slouch.

lemmer

Luxury on the cheap. Needs only a couple of trim pieces to be right. How could you go wrong for $5K? (I am sure someone will tell me)

qbrozen

well... i think that might be overpriced. a little over a year ago i was looking for a well-used luxo car. came across one on ebay in my area that had, if i recall correctly, about 79k miles. And i want to say it was a 93 or 94. anyway, that car was in the $4500 range. Anyway, i did go to see it but would up buying a 100k mile Benz instead from the same guy.

lemmer

Nice Mercedes coupe - not really a project

nice but plain Ventura

lemmer

I am a sucker for cars that cost about a year's depreciation and interest on my current car

andre1969

is probably the mileage. Even though the car still looks nice, at that mileage it's just too much of a potential can of worms. FWIW, I did a KBB estimate on that car, and with 89,000 miles, the KBB default for that year, I came up with a dealer's retail of $10,500. With 155,000, it came up with around $8,500, and I'm sure both of those numbers are way off. Private party values came out to around $6100 with 155K, and $7700 with the default of 89K miles, both in "excellent" condition. I'm sure these numbers are a bit optimistic, as well.

stickguy

that BMW, whi9le I love the style, is a scary piece, especially since it would never make it in NJ (gutted cat?). Also hard to see ho wit is described as real clean with all those flaws! Still, for the price (reserve of 4k), if you are in a non testing state, might be worth a flyer.

The Ventura looks like new. WOnder how hard it would be to rod it? Nice V8, get rid of the hose tangle under the hood...

One thing I realize is I need to go to Alabama for my next car. It's like a time warp down there.

stickguy

reminds me of a guy I used to work with (late 80's) up in Phila. He liked muscle cars, and this was when they weren't that old, and not that expensive.

Anyway, every so often he would hook up a trailer to his parents wagon and take a roll of Benjamins and head dwon th NC/SC area, and scout around for one of those rust free southern cars. I remember him coming back with a CHevelle SS one time.

andre1969

I think it's funny nowadays, in light of fuel prices, how suddenly people are trying to stress how economical these small-engined cars are! For instance, this Ventura has a "Spirited and Economical 3.8 Liter" In addition, "the spirited V-6 provides more than adequate power for this mid-sized car. It's also a lot more economical than a V-8!"

Umm, I had one of these "Spirited" V-6es in an '82 Cutlass Supreme, a car that weighs around 200-300 less than that Ventura. However, my '82 probably had much taller gearing. Still, you'd probably be better off with a Chevy 305. Much better performance, and probably not much of a fuel economy hit.

At the swap meet at Carlisle this past weekend, an awful lot of the smaller-engined cars for sale seemed to have "economical" "great mileage" "25 mpg" etc posted in their windows. And the seller of a '77 Electra I was looking at commented on how the 403 is very economical. Umm, right. Maybe compared to a '76 with a 455! :P

fintail

That 300CE looks very nice, that should be a 24 valve car, too. I wonder why it's debadged.

The black BMW is also kind of cool. That Jag though...I think that's about what something like that is worth. I'd take a 150K mile 10 year old MB over a similar Jag anytime.

fintail

This guy lowered his price...one of those cases where it's good I don't have a big garage...I'd check it out

Semi-unusual car with no keys

jaserb

It is a clean driver, with the nice alloys. One crease in the driver's door, otherwise OK. I really like the looks of the 1st gen RX7s, but after doing a bit of research it sounds like the one to have is a '84-84 GSL-SE with the 13B motor instead of the 12A. My cousin's husband has one. Oh, and the asking price was $1800, although with the cold weather coming I'm sure that's plenty flexible..

-Jason

qbrozen

come on, fintail, get to finding me cars like that in NJ.

then again.... DON'T! You'd get an angry phone call from my wife.

andre1969

but the house in this pic makes me think of 1164 Morning Glory Circle!

jrosasmc

What year is that RX-7 again?

My friend's father still owns and drives an '82 GS that he bought brand-new. It is his daily driver in the months when it's not snowing (here in VT that's from April until November). It has 110k miles on it and still looks new because he pampers it like crazy.

lemmer

If these cars are so rare and sought after, why is only asking $2500?

It seems like a good deal.

michaellno

what's the hp output on that 280 coupe?

It looks really nice, but i'm sure a couple of Colorado winters would make it look its age.

Mr_Shiftright

MB 280C --Storage for 13 years is not a good thing for a car, but for $2,500, and if it were around the corner from me, I'd go look at it.

JAGUAR XJ6 -- a ten year old Jaguar with 150,000++ miles on it? Why not save yourself the time and trouble and just stick your head into a wood chipper? Over-priced. It's a $3,500 car all day long because you can be sure it's going to start feeding on you right after you drive it away. It'll be a $6,000 car in a couple of months anyway.

RX-7: Yep, that's right. With good care, you can get 150K out of a rotary engine. But if you overheat it, JUST ONCE, even for just a minute, your engine is toast, and doomed to failure. Also, neber eber use synthetic oil in a rotary engine, as per dire warnings from mazdatrix.com, who oughta know.

fintail

Well, it is rarer than a 2002 Camry, and I am sure someone somewhere is seeking one...of course they are probably in Sapporo or Liverpool or something.

I don't know if the 280 is a C or CE. A carb car might put out maybe 130-140hp, maybe 150-160hp for the FI car. The FI engine is better in about every way.

lemmer

What is the Shifty verdict on that 6 series BMW in post 1290? Was that a good year for them.

By the way, I looked in "Excellence" regarding 968s. They say a '92 coupe in poor condition is worth over $10,000. That makes that '94 in decent condition look cheap at $9,999 - "Excellence" puts an average '94 at around $14,500, but this one in particular was kind of high mileage.

lemko

I came across a very attractive 1968 Cadillac Sedan DeVille this week parked outside a repair shop near my workplace. It is white without a vinyl top and a black brocade and leather interior. The car appears to be a very well-preserved unrestored original with 34K miles on it. The paint is nearly flawless and the chrome is equally nice. The guy wants $8,500 for it which I think is steep for a sedan regardless of how nice it is. Is $8,500 fair for this car, too much, or a bargain. What would a fair price be?

andre1969

just as a rough reference point, Grbeck and I saw a pretty nice '69 Sedan DeVille at Carlisle. They were asking $5,000, IIRC. I remember Grbeck saying that if you could talk them down to $3,000 that it would be a pretty good deal. This one was green with a green brocade/leather interior. I dunno how much the green would kill the value of it, compared to a white one. Personally, I love green, but for the most part I think cars get deducted for it. Unless you're talking about a Jag in period correct British Racing Green or something like that!

I'd imagine that $8500 would be kind of high, unless it's almost flawless.

stickguy

seems to have well preserved older cars too. I need to get out of the northeast (aka the rustbelt).

I actually like that '76 Nova SS. Nothing a new lock cylinder won't cure. For the money, if it is sound, you could make a nice project out of it. At least the parts are cheap.

Mr_Shiftright

"Excellence" is an excellent magazine but a lousy price guide. You can never trust what we call an "interested' party. A '92 968 in poor condition is $5,000 at the very most, so you can see how far they are off----100% inflation! As for their 1994 pricing, as we say in the business "only in your dreams". Of course, if it were an exceptional, highly modified, one owner, pristine, low miles time capsule, well....maybe $12,500. They must be reading too many of their clients' asking prices. I mean, they value my 1980 Porsche 928 at about twice what it's worth and twice what I paid for it. Not likely!

BMW 6 Series --- I like these cars a lot but the miles on the one being offered are very very high, and the car has been monkeyed with, and really, they aren't all that "collectible". The market for 6 series coupes has never been very strong. You should be able to buy a very sharp, ready to go, no problems 635 CSi for $6,000.

andre1969

I like that one, too....always did like that style, which, while dated today, sure seemed modern at the time! Especially when you put it up against the likes of the Granada, Maverick, Volare, Dart/Valiant, etc. Almost looks too clean and sleek and uncluttered to be a mid-70's car!

lemmer

That sounds like convertible money. I can't imagine it is worth that much. Unless of course it is worth that much to you. It is only the price of a slightly used Kia. How wrong could you go?