Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

jaserb

I like those RX7 wheels - the '82 near me has those. That's a way better deal all around - looks nice.

Maybe the slant 6 Z is just missing a motor mount on one side :P

-Jason

lemmer

Nice wheels, but try to find high performance tires in size 175/70/13 these days.

andre1969

They're not too hard to find, just head to the lawn and garden section at Sears! :P

lemmer

I tried that, Mr. Wiseguy, only S and T rated tires available. The tire rack has a couple H rated tires. I guess that would get the job done at $32 a pop.

xwesx

Oh, I love that Pinto! That reminds me of mine (other than the port hole window)..... Darn, now I want to get it up here and start working on it!

xwesx

A friend of mine had that exact Lincoln in high school.... except his was a faded, reminiscent greenish-yellow color!

lemmer

911

stickguy

Hey, I like it, although it's not the best color. If it is as nice as presented (I smell a bit of hyperbole), I would happily pay between the current bid and the BIN price. But, it would be real nice to have maniitenance records.

Still, for 6-7K, with a complete inspection, it's worth a flyer IMO.

Mr_Shiftright

Yeah, you gotta do a cylinder leakdown test on this car. The oil leak problem + mention of an ornery cold starting idle reminds me of head gasket possibilities, which are typical for an old Porsche engine where the engine studs get old and start to pull out of the case.

maybe so, maybe not, but given that you have to pull the engine cases apart to fix this problem, well, then you are into a major rebuild, well, then you are in $10,000 bucks.

A leakdown test and a flashlight under there would work wonders for my self-confidence.

Also the seller sounds kind of angry. His language and demeanor are not appropriate.

xwesx

Yes, the last paragraph makes me think, "Whoa! Well, thanks for the insults, but you can keep the car."

ghulet

.....for your comments. This looks really nice in and out for its age, and only 85k miles, sad that it's asking price is probably blue book:

http://chicago.craigslist.org/car/102617916.html

No mention of miles here, pictures are kinda hazy, not much on the mechanicals. Also, I don't like that it's black on black or that it's an automatic, but for $2500 (probably get him down to $2k, it's cold and rainy today in Chicago), you could hardly go wrong. I wouldn't mind having this on the first nice spring day, if I had somewhere to store it:

http://chicago.craigslist.org/car/102490073.html

lemmer

I didn't even read that stuff. I just thought it was the usual disclaimers. Under completed auctions, he has this same car two more times. He added the hostility after the first auction when it sold for $8450. The second time someone did "buy it now" for $8450. No word on what happened that time, but the whole thing makes me a little suspicious.

lemmer

I am all for buying both of those, especially the Bimmer - wish it was a manual.

oregonboy

That Porsche is at Triad Motors, a little gravel car lot on the corner, not more that a 1/4 mile from where I'm sitting. I stopped there to look at a couple of Accords when my daughter was looking for a used car, but the were asking 30% over Edmunds TMV.

james

Mr_Shiftright

Bimmer might be a good buy...one thing to watch out for is the power top. I would work it up and down about ten times and see if it jams ($10 says it does). It was a known defect and hard to fix, as the leverage bar they sell you also bends. Go figure. Have one made out of titanium or something. Also a very cramped car inside. Men over 5-9 need not apply. Good cars overall.

XJ6-- road to hell at any price if you ask me. These cars will eat you for breakfast.
If you must Jaguar, go fairly new and bail out at 80,000 tops. Many have tried to win, few succeed.

lemmer

What are you doing typing? Run on over to Triad and check out that car for us.

fintail

It's a big mean looking slug, but it's a fairly cheap way to get something old and so very American

Mr_Shiftright

Hmmm....interesting we have no pictures of the front of the interior....shabby door panels and paint....price is maybe $1,000 too high but if it runs well, no great harm done. If no power steering, this car is a real drag to drive.

fintail

Yeah that paint turned me off. Cheapo stuff.

When I was much younger, I lived in a town with a car lot called "Friendly Auto Sales". They always had oddball stuff, and weren't the worst lot anyway. They always had several old police cars on their back lot, all shoddily repainted an identical shade of blue to that Buick. I have always called it "Friendly Auto Sales Blue". A friend of my parents bought one of those old heaps as a beater for their teenage daughter. It was an 83 Malibu, and this was in 89 or 90. It had nothing but problems.

Mr_Shiftright

Well some old cars are just old cars and that's what they will always be.

fintail

I know good ones are only worth about 10K, but this looks decent in the pics anyway

Mr_Shiftright

I dunno....early 50s 4-door are pretty dead in the marketplace and likely to remain so. It had better be pretty together for $5K.

bumpy

Andre can replace his Silverado with this.

fintail

Another clean old tank

Freakshow...I suppose they could be fun if you got them for free. Parts cars anyway

andre1969

if the dude knocked down the price to about $300 and threw the Century into the deal, I might be tempted! :P

When my garage is finished, I've thought about trying to squeeze three cars in side-by-side, but after seeing that pic, maybe that's not such a bright idea. My garage is most likely wider inside than that one, but so are the cars I'd be trying to squeeze in!

fintail

Oh I wish I lived someplace where I could have something like that. My garage rent for the fintail is pretty low for the area, but if I had more space I wouldn't have had to sell the 126.

Then again, maybe it's good I live here, as if I had land and room, I'd be hoarding away cars, especially ones I want to save from the crusher.

lemmer

I vote "no" on this Monte Carlo SS. I would think you could get a nearly perfect one for $4K or $5K

1960 Truck Limo is back, check the recent angry feedback

jrosasmc

I think that Monte Carlo needs to be put out of its misery by getting junked fast.

Mr_Shiftright

I thought it was pretty funny that he assured us the Monte wasn't a "clone". Whoa, you mean this is the REAL THING?!!! Wow...as Ben Stein would say.

fintail

A friend of mine bought a very clean 60K mile 2 owner 85 SS for 6200 about 5 years ago.

jaserb

My step mom drove her 1987 SS out to 200k+ miles and it's now sitting in a field, rotting. When I mentioned that to a co-worker he got really excited and wanted me to take some pics of it, so the next time I was out at their place I did. It really needs everything - no major dents or damage, but the interior was faded, carpets were torn, engine "ran when parked" - basically what you'd expect from a 200k mile domestic. I showed them to my coworker thinking it would be good for a laugh, but he seemed really torn - like he really wanted to bring that thing back to life!

If it was a '69 Camaro SS it would have made an OK project car, but an '87 Monte? Let it return to its mother earth.

-Jason

lemmer

Once someone pays real money for a clone of an 80s Monte Carlo SS, the muscle car craze will have officially reached its peak.

Mr_Shiftright

What's next? Accurate restoration of clones? Clones of cars they never made?

Which reminds me.....once I guy called me up and wanted to know what a so & so Mercedes was worth.

I told him they never MADE such a car....

And he said "Yeah, I know, but if they DID, what would it be worth today?"

lemmer

I think they already do "pretend" clones.

I can't think of one in particular, but I have seen on ebay where cars are described as being an exact copy of a car never made, perhaps a 1979 VW Rabbit GTI or a 1998 Chevrolet Camaro IROC-Z.

lemmer

How much for a C4 Vette that just needs a little reconditioning?

Mr_Shiftright

Gee, high miles automatic C4---there's not much going for it. I think $8,000 should be all the retail money in the world for it. Fair market? Probably around $7,000 is all anyone should pay for it given its needs. If I myself were hot for it, I wouldn't bid more than $6,500.

C4s are basically just used cars now unless it's a ZR1 or something.

lemmer

I think these look a lot better than the similar Monte Carlo SS. I would have to pass because of the Maaco paint and red velour interior. I know Andre has commented on the 307, but I can't remember if it is any good.

lemmer

I think this is kind of cool. Is it pretty fast with a 390?

Are Torinos worth saving?

stickguy

the 442 looks OK, but overpriced and not really much of a project.

The Galaxie, OTOH, looks like a good porject candidate. The BIN might be a bit high, but the car looks/sounds clean and straight. If it is good metal (no rust), you could do a lot with it pretty easily. I actually like a few of those early '60s Fords, about the only large Detroit iron of that time period that I can stand.

andre1969

the 442 to the Monte SS as well. I think partly because they didn't make nearly as many...they actually cranked out upwards of 40,000 Monte SS'es a year for awhile there, and I think the Grand National got up to around 20-25,000 in its peak, but the 442/Hurst usually only saw a few thousand per year. The Cutlass already had an aerodynamic nose, so there was also no need to tack one on as they did with the Monte. And finally, Cutlasses tended to have nicer interiors than Montes.

The 307 is a good motor, but I think the 305 breathes better. The 305 in the SS and the 307 in the 442 were both rated at 180 hp, but I think the SS was a bit faster. As for durability, I think the 307 tended to get carbon buildup in the valves and combustion chambers as the miles piled up. I also knew a guy who had one that sludged, but he never took care of anything, sending many cars to an early grave. I've also heard that the Olds block was a stronger block than the Chevy block. Something about using more nickle in the iron? It was also actually a lighter block. It was designed from the get-go to handle a wide range of displacements, while Chevy actually trimmed too much off their original 265 block in 1955, and then had to use more of a band-aid approach to beefing it back up, which resulted in it being heavier than if it had been designed more sturdy to begin with. Also, by the 70's and 80's, the Chevy block tended to go through crankshafts prematurely.

That being said though, I had an '86 Monte with a 305 (non-SS, just the stock 150 hp unit) that was still running fine at 192K miles when it got t-boned, and my '85 Silverado has a 305 with around 115K miles that shows no signs of dying anytime soon. It has problems with the carb/choke, but the driveline still feels solid.

andre1969

my Dad had a '64 Galaxie XL with the 390 when he was a teen. He actually hated it, but that's because he was a major Chevy fan. He thought it was slow, but compared to some of the other cars he had, like a '63 Impala SS409 and a '65 Impala SS396, it was! In retrospect though, he said it was probably one of the best cars he'd ever had. It was in great shape, and probably fast enough. I think it was an automatic too, another reason he would've hated it at the time.

lemko

I wouldn't mind that '53 Caddy as something to drive around on nice days. Where is it? It better be in really nice shape for $5K. It's probably a low-line Series 62.

lemmer

Porsche 912

Suppose you could get a car like this for around $1,000 - fairly solid, little rust, rebuildable engine and transmission. You can get labor for free or almost for free, you have some extra parts around that you can have for free or almost for free, and you can get other parts at dealer cost. You know a very skilled retired body and paint guy who works out of his garage very inexpensively. Suppose you just want the car to be a decent driver? Is there any way you could keep your head above water?

lemmer

How is your Silverado otherwise? It only takes some rally wheels and big tires and a decent paint job to make those look really cool.

andre1969

It's mechanically sound for the most part, but needs a/c work, the radio doesn't work, headliner's falling down, and it has some rust, with the worst part of it being on the passenger side where the rocker panel meets the back of the cab. It's a 2-tone red and white and has the 15x8 rally wheels, so it could be a pretty sharp looking truck. I have no plans to ever restore it though...just enough to keep it mechanically sound so that I can hold off buying a newer truck for as long as possible.

Here's a pic of it when it was new, with my Granddad standing beside it and a truck camper on the back. He only put that camper on once and drove it around the block to see how it would handle it. It didn't do too well, although I have to confess that I've put heavier loads on it than that camper!

jrosasmc

That's a sharp-looking Silverado you have! Even though it's 20 years old can it still cruise at fast highway speeds (i.e. 65-75 mph)?

andre1969

thanks! Actually, the truck does pretty well on the highway, and seems to do better at higher speeds than it does with lower ones. I think part of the problem is with gearing...it has a tall 2.56:1 rear end. It also weighs about 4200 lb, and the 305 only puts out 165 hp (245 ft-lb of torque, IIRC) You really have to stomp on it to get it to move out from a traffic light, and merging onto a high-speed interstate can be umm, adventurous! I have no idea what the 0-60 time would be on it, but I'd guess in its current state, maybe something pathetic like 15 seconds? Even in perfect tune though, I couldn't imagine that it would do much better than 12-13. It's just that 12-13 seconds seemed a lot faster back in the 80's than it does today!

Mr_Shiftright

No. Engine and trans rebuild would exceed value of the car by about DOUBLE and you can't do it yourself. It may look like a VW engine but it isn't. Even a FREE 912 with a bad engine and trans is an upside down situation. Of course, you could put in a used engine and trans, and you might come up even if the car were free and in good cosmetic condition.

The seller of this car is delirious. It's worth basically nothing but parts....$300 car.

I saw a beautiful 912 sell for $10,000 a few weeks ago. It was all rebuilt, all cherry inside and out, a solid clean #2. It would cost at least $25,000 to make a shabby one look like that. And this is nothin' "fancy" either.

Engine $10,000
Paint & Body (no rust) $6,000
Trans $3,500
Interior $2,000
Suspension $2,0000
Tires $800
Misc $2,500

lemmer

OK, here is the deal. This is more than just a hypothetical situation. My father-in-law works here - Troysport, or really he plays there because they don't actually pay him. He has a 912 race car. He thinks it would be cool if I had a 912 race car or street car or whatever.

They have a solid 912 at the shop. I think it has no driveline. I have never seen it. My FIL conceivably would work on it at his leisure. I think he could probably find a decent used engine and I think he has an extra transmission he would sell me cheaply. If it was to be a road car, he has a whole decent interior that came out of his race car (I have no idea what the "shop" 912 looks like inside). My FIL has several extra sets of Fuchs with decent tires.

I know that having a vintage racer would cut way down on the cost of paint/body, interior and incidentals, but then a more serious engine and suspension would be required (i.e. - more new parts).

Does this real life scenario change your analysis to any large degree?

By the way, my FIL's car is at the bottom of this page. It is the yellow '66 912.

stickguy

in your case, it sounds like you could get a viable (cost effective) fun car out of this. Certainly can't beat the labor rate!