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Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

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  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Well you are talking about an enormous amount of work here, so you'd better be pretty serious about racing. I don't think I'd build it as a street car, because you'll just end up with a FrankenPorsche, made up of bits of this car and bits of that car. It won't fit right and won't look right.

    So it would have to be a vintage racer and you'd have to be pretty serious about racing to get into this.

    You can buy decent 912s for $6,500 and you'll have at least that in your project when you're done, even with free labor.

    You know if it were an Alfa from the 60s or a Jag or even an MGA, I'd say go for it as a street car, but a 912 is very iffy. Besides, you can't hardly make a 912 motor go very fast...well you can scare yourself but you can't build real power into them.

    Buy a 911 and be happy is my advice. Or a 914 where you can do really well in autocross or SCCA and send a 912 into the locker room. :P
  • lemmerlemmer Member Posts: 2,689
    How about a used 911 engine in the 912? On second thought, forget that. I don't want your blood pressure to skyrocket.

    The problem with the vintage racing is that I would have to buy a trailer and probably a better tow vehicle than the family minivan (even though Barber Motorsports Track is only seven miles straight down the road from my house).

    I'll pose this question instead. Assuming some free labor and cheap parts, what can I do for a relatively inexpensive Porsche project where I can stay in the black if I decide to sell it? Or does it pretty much always just make sense to buy something pretty nice and problem free to start with?

    By the way, my FIL won't say how much money he has in his 912. He bought a decent driver off of ebay for around $6,000. Without doing any additional paintwork and doing a lot of the labor himself, I would be surprised if he isn't north of $30,000. He thinks it is worth at least $20,000. It is a well-prepared car, but I am not so sure. How much is a decent '66 911 vintage racer?
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Yeah, he might get $20,000 if it's set up right and is fast enough. If it's a back of the packer, maybe not so much as that.

    I don't wish to be discouraging, but really you can't come out on a "porsche project", not never not no-how.

    You're right---just buy the best car you can afford when it comes to Porsches--it's always the cheapest way to go with them.

    If you want to tinker with something, buy a 2.0 liter 914, but with a good engine. Parts are plentiful and many are accessed right out of the VW parts bin...not the transmission or front end though----those are 911 pieces so pricey-pricey.
  • lemmerlemmer Member Posts: 2,689
    The problem is who do you race in a 912? At Porsche club events, it is usually NA 944s and occasionally a 914 or very rarely a 356. The 944s blow him away. The 914s vary based on their level of prep. At vintage races, little Loti and such are vastly faster. In SCCA, he is lumped in with 4-cyl M3s and such that lap him like he was on a bicycle. So, most of his competition is much faster with the occasional oddball that is even far slower than him. Either way, a lot of the time there is nobody to go "toe to toe" with.

    I will stop beating this dead horse now, and move on.

    OK, here is an MG race car project

    MG street car, driver/light project
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Oh, you can't tangle with a Lotus in SCCA if that's your class. At least with a 914 you can build a grenade engine and afford to blow up two of those for every 912 engine. 944s racing against 912s? Oh gee...just the brakes and handling puts the 944 at a big advantage, even if power were equal.

    MBG GT -- a bit heavy for the track but they are sturdy and well built little cars.

    MGB GT DRIVER -- not a bad car for the money. Not sure what he means by wire wheels needing "truing". If that means broken spokes then we are talking some money to get them re-laced. Too bad about the Weber carbs---they suck gas and you gain maybe 2 HP for all the fuss and 1/2 the fuel mileage. No thanks. Mallory is a good idea. Too bad no overdrive, these cars REALLY need it. I can't imagine what is sounds like in there at 104 mph-----B-17 over Germany probably.
  • lemmerlemmer Member Posts: 2,689
    He was going to "convert" that car to a GTO. I am sure he had no nefarious intentions, but there is a lot of that going on.

    I can't imagine that car is good for much other than parts.
  • lemmerlemmer Member Posts: 2,689
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 53,357
    a 7K parts car with a bad motor? In Montana?

    At that price, pull it out into the pasture and put hay into it for the cows.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,419
    That Maserati really is the worst thing posted in awhile. It's 7 grand, reserve not met. For what is almost certainly a $400 parts car that will never be worth anything even if in showroom condition.

    That 73 Firebird looks fixable.
  • lemmerlemmer Member Posts: 2,689
    I know the consensus on the much-maligned BMW 320i, but what about this (semi) bad boy? I wanted one as a teenager, but then again I really liked the 320i also.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    The 323i with transplanted engine looks like a fun car, but I don't think it's worth very much....maybe $2,500.

    Maserati Bi-Turbo: seller is certifiably crazy. Notice the "0" bids, so the entire world agrees with me on this one. Yep, about $400 parts car, so he and we are only $6,600 apart on price. Let's talk!! :P You can't keep head gaskets on that motor, no matter what you do. An unfixable engine basically. Time for a 4300 Vortec in there.
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 53,357
    the bird is a rat, but I like it conceptually. Although I do find reverse to be a handy gear to have. Again, if you want something to work on (aka a project), and it isn't rusty underneath (a big if with one of these) might be viable, but then again I am a sucker for a stick.

    The Buick looks like a nice clean car. That one could make a nice resto rod. Something different than what you usually see.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • lemmerlemmer Member Posts: 2,689
    But I will anyway.

    Could you buy this 944, put in a used engine, and come out ahead?

    I see 944 engines (of questionable origins) on ebay for less than $500.
  • lemmerlemmer Member Posts: 2,689
    I like the Firebird, but I wonder if you could get a nicer car for not a lot more dough.
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 53,357
    you know what they say, if you have to ask you already know the answer...

    Anyway, at the current bid ($750), maybe, but that assumes you can do work yourself, and you can find a good engine. I might be more worried about the sheer volume of electrical/body issues (door locks, window motors, etc.). Might eat up your budget just fixing them!

    If you have the mechanical ability to tackle it, might be worth a shot, but I think it really needs someone with tools and a mechanically excellent 944 that was rearended, so you can just combine parts.

    Ah, who am I kidding. You would be so far underwater you would need a periscope to see daylight.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    I had a silver 1975 Cadillac Sedan DeVille with a blue top and blue leather interior. The lister erroneously translates 500 cubic inches to 7.7 litres. It's actually 8.2. I think the 472 is 7.7 litres.
  • lemmerlemmer Member Posts: 2,689
    I had the same idea about combining a wrecked but mechanically solid 944 with the decent body. Then I figured that Shiftright would tell me me I would have a $3,000 driver for $3,000 if absolutely nothing goes wrong, or I would have a $5,500 car if I spent another $6,000 on paint, body, and interior.

    Maybe I should just buy a $500 XJ6 and put a $500 Chevy small block in it.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Nah, you can buy a nice '87 944 for $6,500 that already has an engine, paint, no dents, has good upholstery, cruise control, etc etc. --all the things that this car doesn't have. Why bother?
    And....this model of 944 is still depreciating anyway. You won't even keep up with inflation if you bought a mint one. If it were an '89 S2 model I might have said "maybe".

    The Porsche game is not for newbies; you need to do your homework on models, costs, etc. first or you'll really screw up.

    Wrecking yard for this car.

    Yeah, you could run an XJ6 with a Chevy small block, but then you are throwing out the best part of the XJ, which is the engine. I don't get the point of it personally. It's the cooling system, electrics and steering and suspension that causes all the problems, and those will still be in there to haunt you. Besides that, a Jagolet is sale-proof.

    Now a 944 S2, clean with a bad clutch and non-working A/C ---there you could come out right and have a fab car to drive as well.
  • au94au94 Member Posts: 171
    See, I like this Chevelle as is. Pretty fair price as well. Maybe a little high. But watch, someone will buy it and we'll see it out there again as an SS clone w/ an asking price in the 30's.
  • gsemikegsemike Member Posts: 2,413
    Definately a nice car but a little high priced for my tastes. I think that 1970-1 demand a higher price. That's just something that I think I've observed without really investigating. I guess that's due to the halo effect from the LS-6.
  • lemmerlemmer Member Posts: 2,689
    I like that Chevelle too. It seems a little high priced, but in the days of the $65,000 GTO what is so bad about $11K for a nice Chevelle?
  • lemmerlemmer Member Posts: 2,689
    I like the Jensen Healeys, but I am not shelling out that much money for a couple of wrecks. Once again, we have the "I haven't tried to start it" comment. Who buys a car and doesn't at least make some attempt at starting it.
  • martianmartian Member Posts: 220
    Whilst driving through town one day, i happened to see a house with three old sedans in the driveway:
    (1) 1958 EDSEL CORSAIR (horrible aqua/white), some rust, but basically OK
    (2) 1958 EDSEL 4 dr, orange/white, rusty bumpers, otherwise OK
    (3) 1961 STUDEBAKER lark sedan-faded red, surface rust
    My guess is that these cars are owned by some old curmudgeon, who thinks he is sitting on a gold mine. Are any of these cars even remotely worth restoring?
    Or should the old geezer just call the local junkyard and have them hauled away? i hear scrap steel is worth a lot these days 9it is going to china to build the next wave of cheap cars to be exported to us0.
  • jrosasmcjrosasmc Member Posts: 1,711
    Don't forget Land Cruisers will run forever and ever, just like old Volvos.
  • lemmerlemmer Member Posts: 2,689
    I remember reading somewhere, maybe R&T, that the engines weren't that durable - only good for an average of around 100K miles. I would have guessed that a big low stress engine like that would go forever.

    Old Volvos only run forever with large cash infusions or the owner's ability to ignore lots of small problems. I know from experience.
  • jaserbjaserb Member Posts: 820
    The Adobe. The little car made from clay. Combining German engineering with Mexican know-how!

    -Jason
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 53,357
    German engineering and mexican know how? Sounds more like VW than Porsche!

    What a rat. That dude must have finally figured out how buried he is (and how much further he would be if he continued) and decided to cut/run. That car needs a huge amount of $$$ to complete correctly, and will never be worth the amount dumped in.

    I love the listed reasons for selling these half-completed projects. Too many toys, wife wants garage, job change, etc. I bet most of them are closer to "spend the entire college fund, no more money left to throw into the black hole.."

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,419
    That Porsche is awful. I loathe it when people "update" older Porsches like that, trying to hide the real car. It's like rebadging a Mercedes.

    And the Adobe thing is hilarious. Maybe it's their sport model. I wonder if it has custom contour seats and a beverage gripping dash.
  • oregonboyoregonboy Member Posts: 1,650
    I am particularly fond of the louvered front hood. The ventilation will keep one's luggage from overheating.

    james
  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    I would say no to the edsels but the Studebaker might be worth saving would have to see a picture though.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Gee, rusted 4-door Edsels and Studebakers....there's a fortune to be made!!!

    No, I could really only see these as parts cars for those precious little trim pieces you can't find anymore for your 2 door hardtop or ragtop Edsels or for your Lark convertible. They're probably worth a couple hundred bucks apiece, though...a little better than scrap metal.

    69 Chevelle -- the car has been bastardized so you can't expect original value pricing....however, as a modified street car it's probably worth $8,500 as it sits. The only 60s Chevelles worth serious money are the SS models.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Eh...he says "paint this car and double it's value" but really it's "paint this car for $5,000 and make it worth $2,000 more". Rust on the hood means a lot of work to treat and seal this and also at least cut the old paint down and see what's going on elsewhere.

    It's a 4-door not a 2 door hardtop. Big difference.

    Still, if you bargained hard on the price and went for a more cheapo paint job (maybe $2,000) and did some of the prep work yourself, you'd come out okay on it.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,419
    Yeah, I look at most craigslist cars as DIY projects. That Pontiac actually has rust on the roof...which might be worse than the hood, more area, and those touchy seams where the roof and pillars meet.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Collectors just don't seem to want to pay any kind of serious money for 4-door hardtops. It's not that popular a body style. They'd even take a 2-door post over them.
  • gsemikegsemike Member Posts: 2,413
    How bastadizes is it really? I saw more that was original than not. I agree that it's a little pricey, but alot of these other basket cases running around make this look showroom.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Doesn't look too bad. We'd have to know the engine/trans/diff numbers to see if the car is a Frankencar or not. Still priced too high for a plain Malibu 350 I think--but if I could see the car I might change my mind. The camera lies so well and I've seen so many nice photo cars turn into wavy-sleds with mildew trunks and overspray and cobbled up engine compartments that I'm fairly cautious on pricing.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    No question about this one: (it was a Honda Civic)
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 17,688
    Eh.... the trunk lid looks to be in pretty good shape! What about the speakers in the rear? :P
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,419
    I figure...pick up that Pontiac for 4K if it is as decent as it looks...give it 2K worth of amateur bodywork/paint, and you've got a good cruiser. That's what most old cars should be all about.
  • jrosasmcjrosasmc Member Posts: 1,711
    What year do you believe that poor Civic was?
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