Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

gsemike

What the heck is this?

Now this is a project Leave your convertible sitting in the back yard all summer long and then throw this ad out there on labor day weekend

Probably would appeal to someone I'd bet it's wretched to drive

Would have been better left stock Sweet car but outrageous price being that the mods are definitely love it or hate it

Yikes!! It's a parts car and it's not 2 grand. At least he doesn't say 'easy fix'

Not too many of these left in orignal condition No idea what it's worth without a pic. It could be $3500, it could be $500. Stick is unusual

Body will probably need alot of work Someone that knows bodywork could probably come out ahead on this. The wheels tell me that the last resto was some time ago

It has a salvage title because it got side swiped

For the price of $800.00 (Neg) you cant go wrong....
I think that you could

Don't see these around here ever It's probably OK for the money or close to it

If this is your thing, yopu could probably do worse

qbrozen

hmmmm... any idea of a good site I can read up on these different models? I tried searching, but even when I found pics of what someone called a "1989 C4," it said Carrera on the decklid.

im_brentwood

6speedonline.com

rennlist.com

They should say "Carrera 4" on the decklids, that or "Understeers like a camry"

Mr_Shiftright

Yeah what he said. He posted some good sites.

There's a problem with the 1989 Carrera 4 in that it really is a different car than the 1989 Carrera 2. It's not just an AWD version of the other one. So it's more akin to a 1990 C4, with all the subsequent maladies.

Used Porsches seem to be of two types:

1. The under-maintained car but basically decent car that needs a quick $5,000 bucks but the owner is asking a price as if he already put the $5K in...but hasn't.

OR

2. The well-maintained or over-maintained car that is priced so that the owner can reclaim every dollar he ever spent on it.

I'm inclined to try and chisel down the over-priced car rather than low-ball the badly maintained one. It's so easy to get bitten in the butt by a neglected Porsche.

It's like this:

The car runs great but the clutch pedal is stiff. "Needs a cable says the seller". Makes sense.

Well, come to find out you have a clutch problem. So you need a clutch. Well wait a minute. The reason you have this clutch problem is a badly engineered type of clutch. You should have it converted to the improved type...why put in the same trouble-prone mechanism?

So a clutch cable becomes $2,500 in the blink of an eye. And gee, since we HAVE the engine out, how about those cam cover oil leaks? $350....and what about a major service to the whole car? $900. And you wanna fix that targa top leak? $400.

But aha, the "high priced" car would have had all that done already.

british_rover

Are the last of the air cooled 911s from the mid to late 90s substantially better then those late 80s cars?

im_brentwood

That was a beautiful post! I get the same garbage from my customers... guy who was looking for an E30 M3.

"Hey, I know of this guy down by New Brunswick who has a 91 M3 with 95k on it that he wants only $12,500 for"

"Oh yeah, the Black one with Style 5 wheels, right?"

"Yeah, you know the car?"

"Yeah I do, you don't want it. Been hit harder than a Babe Ruth baseball"

"But is it any good?"

"No. Guy had it in here, it needs everything, told him $5,000 to put it right, he declined everything and kept driving it."

"Oh, what about that one you knew about down the shore?"

"That's Mark's car. He is firm at $16k but aside from worn leather on the driver's seat which costs $500 to make perfect, it needs NOTHING at all, the car is perfect mechanically, air blows out at 40 degrees, brand new rubber, pads, discs, timing chain done, valves and throttles set, it's perfect".

"But I don't want to spend more than $12-13k and I want a car with under 100k miles"

"Then don't buy an E30 M3, all you're going to get for that money in one is a money pit"

"What about yours, don't you want to sell it?"

"Yeah I do, it's got 28k original miles and looks like a new car aside from 3 stone chips the size of a pin head. $29,500 it's yours"

"Oh"

fintail

Euro 5-speed cloth interior W116 in good colors...probably as interesting as these old barges get

Shame it's not a Quattro

fintail

And another oddball W116, this model was the last non-FI MB sold in NA, I believe. It also has the primitive automatic climate control

Mr_Shiftright

The Audi GT might be worth putting some money into. They fetch a fair price, even without Quattro.

Euro Benz -- good luck selling ANY Euro Benz in America. Americans sniff them pretty good before buying and if they do, they lowball--a good thing.

76 280S -- might be okay, but with those high miles and non FI, it's really just a $1,500 car at best.

benjaminh

on ebay in very nice shape:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1968-Cadillac-Eldorado-472-v8-390-HP-Black-Nice_W- 0QQitemZ130149235818QQihZ003QQcategoryZ6147QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem-

Mr_Shiftright

People will pay for quality. Bids are about market correct--the car could go to $10K.

Calling it a "muscle car" is pretty unclear on the concept however.

texases

My favorite old Eldo - isn't this the same as the one they showed on a recent commercial?

benjaminh

With the 5-speed manual....

Buy it now price on ebay, $3000. In ok shape, but with some problems. Probably fun to drive...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1991-Audi-200-Turbo-Quattro-4DR-Sedan-Loaded_W0QQ- itemZ120157548685QQihZ002QQcategoryZ6055QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

benjaminh

This very nice Lincoln we looked at a while ago ended up going for 44k:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=160152462419&- ssPageName=STRK:MEDW:IT&ih=006

Mr_Shiftright

Feh. Audi 200. Nobody wants those things. Duller than you think.

64 Lincoln--well like I said, if it's a *true* #1 car, it was probably worth it. If it was a #2 car, they paid too much by about $10K. Maybe they thought they were bidding on a /63?

Well the only one who can answer the question is the buyer once the flatbed rolls up to his driveway. He'd better not see any dings, loose threads, wear spots or bumpy chrome.

benjaminh

This thing must have had an original list price of 35k or so. Why is the buy it now price only 9k? Is the resale value on Audi's that bad? I have an 02 Accord LX that I bought new for 15.7k. I'm not sure, but I don't think the resale value for it is much lower than 8k. Why would a car that costs twice as much only go for another grand now? My Accord only has 50k miles, and this one is in the 90s, but still...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2002-AUDI-A4-1-8L-TURBO-SPORT-PKG-BEAUTIFUL-CAR_W- - 0QQitemZ180156295040QQihZ008QQcategoryZ6003QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem- -

andre1969

That '68 Eldorado is a sharp looking car, although it looks to me like the bumper got hit and bent upward just a bit. I don't care for that silver pickup truck bumper looking trim inside, but if it can be easily reverted back to plood (or did they use real wood in these) then no big deal.

I think it's interesting how GM and Lincoln took different approaches to the personal luxury coupe back then. The Eldo, along with the Toro and Riv, all have a sleek, sporty, almost futuristic look to them. They're very stylish, but also toned-down. In contrast, the Mark III was more of a neoclassic throwback looking thing, with a heavy pimp factor thrown in.

In the end, I guess the Lincoln led the way to the future, as GM seemed to pimp up their cars for 1970. It wasn't so noticeable on the Eldo/Toro, but the Riv went from sleek and sporty to fat and pimpy almost overnight. And the redesigned 1971 models almost demanded that their owners buy a velvet suit to match.

lemko

I'd say the 1970 Riviera looks like a Skylark hardtop on steroids. The fender skirts and that oddball sidesweep vinyl trim does nothing for its looks. My all-time favorite Riv is the 1965 model with the hidden stacked lights. Those inboard exposed lamps on the 1963-64 look odd to me.

210delray

I actually prefer the '64 Lincoln the most out of the entire 1961-95 range (all are beautiful though). I like the fine-mesh eggcrate grille without the large chrome headlight "pods" used on the earlier models. I also like the matching eggcrate trim on the rear.

andre1969

Yeah, that oddball trim and fender skirts do mess up the style of that Riv. Something about the front-end though, with its exposed headlights and more upright grille, just bring its style downscale, too close to the Skylark.

Even without skirts though, the cars look fat. I wonder if they had to make the rear quarters a bit plumper so that the skirts would fit over the tires?

I never liked headlights that were too inboard, anyway. Such as the '63-64 Riv, but also the '70 Toro. I even notice it on '71-72 full-sized Pontiacs.

fintail

That's pretty much Edmunds TMV trade in, from what I can tell.

Audis do indeed depreciate that swiftly. A6s and A8s are just as bad if not worse.

upstatedoc

May have an opportunity to purchase an '81 which is supposedly in "pristine" condition. Does anyone have any info about these vehicles? Do they make parts for it? Should I just steer clear of it? It certainly is a one of a kind vehicle.

jlflemmons

Run. Away, not toward.

texases

Not much to recommend them except the body, but yes, parts are no problem, these folks DeLorean pretty much bought the parts from the factory, they can build you a new one from them if you like, and have $60k. :surprise:

edit - of course, it's a BIG problem if you're stuck out in the middle of nowhere - NAPA won't be much help! And good luck finding someone to work on it.

andre1969

I think they can be fun in sort of an "it rubs the lotion on its skin or else it gets the hose again" sort of way. :surprise:

benjaminh

It has the 6 speed manual transmission, and only 6k miles. It has the original sticker, which is 33k. This shows I was wrong about the price of that 02 A4. It was probably more like 28k msrp, and may have gone out the door at 26.

The seller is selling without a reserve price. I wonder how high it will go. I seems that not that many are fond of Audis, but this one looks nice to me...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2006-AUDI-A4-2-0T-QUATTRO-RARE-6-SPEED-5K-NO-RESE- RVE_W0QQitemZ180156716213QQihZ008QQcategoryZ6003QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZVie- wItem

benjaminh

In great condition. I've never seen one of these? How long did they make em? Bet it gets great mpg.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1958-BMW-Isetta-300-one-door-one-cylinder-FUN_W0Q- QitemZ190149332670QQihZ009QQcategoryZ6056QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

benjaminh

Looks like a BMW Golf.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1971-BMW-Touring-2002-2000Tii_W0QQitemZ2001483152- 76QQihZ010QQcategoryZ42601QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

texases

Or a stubby Saab. Doesn't do much for me. Wonder what a regular 2002tii would go for in that kind of shape?

Mr_Shiftright

The 2002 hatch was a dud in sales, representing only 6% of total 2002 production. So I wouldn't expect it to be any more popular today.

The ad really doesn't specify if this is a true fuel injected car or not. These hatches were called the "touring" model.

But regardless, a "normal" 2002 Tii would break $15,000 in this condition.

DeLorean:-- well you'll get a LOT of attention if that's what you want. But you'll also get water leaks and very tepid performance. So it's a sheep in wolf's clothing, that's for sure, with little appreciation value. Delorean owners think their cars are worth $20,000++, but the market thinks they are worth $15K. Just like last year and the year before that.

benjaminh

What a deal...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/69-Citroen-Wagon-67-Citroen-Wagon_W0QQitemZ280150- 593463QQihZ018QQcategoryZ6183QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

benjaminh

Looks like a nice little car.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Show-Winning-1963-Morris-Cooper-Pristine-Conditio- n_W0QQitemZ320155498087QQihZ011QQcategoryZ107007QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZVie- wItem

benjaminh

very nice. 75k so far. Reserve not met...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Aston-Martin-DB-2-4-MK-I-Drophead-Coupe_W0QQitemZ- 290157805978QQihZ019QQcategoryZ5358QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

jlflemmons

"1969 Wagon: The best car ever built in my opinion."

This guy really needs to get out more.

benjaminh

Check out the "trafficators"

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1947-Austin-10-A40-California-Original-Rust-Free-- Runs_W0QQitemZ170146664880QQihZ007QQcategoryZ6126QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZVi- ewItem

benjaminh

Even counts how much the passenger owes in shillings and pence

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Meticulous-restoration-Pre-War-Austin-London-Taxi- _W0QQitemZ150157913037QQihZ005QQcategoryZ6126QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewIt- em

andre1969

I'm shocked at how cheap the shipping is on that car! Ad says it would cost about $1750 to ship it to the United States. That sounds cheap to me, when I had estimates for $500 and up just to get a '76 LeMans from Cincinnatti to the DC area!

I figured the heck with it, and just went out there and drove it back. But I guess that's not an option if it's across the pond!

That '36 Austin is a neat old thing, but somebody answer me this. I can understand why a lot of 50's European cars look like they're about 15-20 years out of date, what with Dubya-Dubya-Two-Da-Big-One and all the rebuilding that went on afterwards, but what was their excuse with some 30's cars? Dubya-Dubya-One?

fintail

About the styling lag in Europe, I think it was just a simple lack of funds. Cars were not truly mass market goods in Europe until postwar, and the yearly design changes which existed in the US even by 1930 were not really feasible. There were some European cars of the 30s which were more or less on par with modern American styling (and some maybe even ahead), but many seemed to lag a good 5-10 years. Also, I think styling was more engineering based in Europe at the time.

Funny how all the way from this time through the 60s most European cars lagged stylistically behind the latest trends...but today, they are almost always well ahead of the pack.

im_brentwood

Andre,

That's not that cheap.. probably a container price. Ro-Ro is under $1k.

Mr_Shiftright

There comes a time in every Citroen's life when a bullet to the head is really the most merciful thing one can do.

Morris Minor: Cute little thing, and looks to be very well done, but with all that overheated prose I'm wondering if he's got silly reserve money on it. This is, after all, a 948 cc Morris Minor we are talking about here.

What's all the money here? Maybe $8,000?

im_brentwood

I thought that genuine Coopers brought strong money or am I wrong?

The question iswhether or not it is a genuine and documented Cooper, or just someone saying "Oh, I thought all those old Minis were Coopers..."

Kind of like how the Europeans will say that a Chrysler Saratoga 4-door is just like a 300........

im_brentwood

Since it came up elsewhere...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/BMW-733I-RARE-CONDITION-SPECIAL-COLOR-COMBO-COLD-- A-C_W0QQitemZ300147902606QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item300147902606

I want one.. 82 so it has some slight advances, but it has the cool original sharknose. I already have 3 E32s and 1 E38.. why not have an original 7 as well?

Oh I know why not.. common sense.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ONLY-50K-MILES-5-SPEED-EXCELLENT-COND-CA-CAR_W0QQ- itemZ130149138583QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item130149138583

Wow! 2 Decent ones! Must be a record... already at $6k.. sheesh.

benjaminh

Buy it now for $4500. I'm surprised it has room for a 3rd seat:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1973-Saab-95-Vintage-2dr-Wagon-With-Third-Row-Sea- - t_W0QQitemZ260157004374QQihZ016QQcategoryZ6438QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewI- - tem

benjaminh

A Saab sports car. Can it be saved? Is it worth saving? I've never seen one of these.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1974-Saab-Sonett-3-III-Great-Project-Car-NO-RESER- VE_W0QQitemZ200149504336QQihZ010QQcategoryZ6438QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZView- Item

benjaminh

It's a V-6 with a 5-speed manual. No reserve, and only up to $500 so far. On the upside down discussion list someone talked about getting a junky 1988 K-Car with 133k for $350. I'd much rather drive this car, even if it costs 5 times as much. But, it would be more expensive and harder to repair...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1994-SAAB-900-SE-V6-5-SPEED-LOW-MILES-NO-RESERVE_- W0QQitemZ280150064024QQihZ018QQcategoryZ6383QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewIte- m

qbrozen

what worries me here is that most of the guy's ad is a description from 6 years ago. That's a LOOONNNGG time in car years. And I'm willing to bet the pics are that old, too. Unless it hasn't been driven since 2001. Otherwise, it should have many stone chips on that underfloor paint. It does have alot of dings down there, though, which makes me curious, too. But, most importantly, I kinda doubt those pics are in the guys house, where he claims it is currently stored.

stickguy

I love his description. Lot's of high praise (runs great, etc.), then he just kind of off hand tosses in that the CEL is on!

Still, that mutt is right up my alley if it is cheap enough. If it was local, I might look at it for my son! If it went cheap enough, of course.

Mr_Shiftright

'94 Saab, V-6---money pit, bad car, bad engine. No way. $600 is plenty, you'll be in $5,000 in a year.

BMW 733i -- I've had two 80s era 7 series. They are great cars, but I'd sure advise to get a 735i (easier parts finding) and don't get a stickshift car. This is a HUGE car and has a very heavy gearshift. It's not the fun you think it is.

Saab Sonnett -- an eccentric and interesting car, but regrettably, it's not worth anything unless it's pristine, and even then, about 1/3 the value of an MGB. I'd say this one would be a valuable parts gin for a better car. So, purchase as a junker.

Morris MINI -- oops, I kinda read the ad wrong, but I'll stick to my guns on this. A 948cc base MINI is an $8K-10K car to my mind. It takes the FUN out of MINI, that's for sure. So what have you got left? More research required on this car. I agree, something about it doesn't seem right.

qbrozen

OK. I gotta figure this out cause its driving me crazy. So I'm going to have to double post it on the boards with the biggest car nuts I can think of: here and CCB.

Anyhooo... I caught a show on HD one night a little while back and I want to set my DVR to record any other episodes. It was a racing show between 3 regular joes and their street cars. One was a Ferrari Mondial, the other a Boxster (I think), and the last was an E55. They do a few solo laps to set up their handicap, then all race together. IIRC, the E55 won this one (because the Ferrari spun out). Does anyone know this show???

im_brentwood

Shifters are easy to fix... www.uucmotorwerks.com

The owner is a very good friend of mine, he makes some super cool stuff.. ya gotta feel the setup I have in the M5 if you ever get out this way.