Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

benjaminh

I like the dash design of these cars...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1956-LINCOLN-CONTINENTAL-MARK-II-ONLY-31K-MILES_W- 0QQitemZ160150978126QQihZ006QQcategoryZ6304QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem-

Mr_Shiftright

Well by normal standards the bids are just about maxed out here at $35,000. Of course, we should allow for the fact that this car SEEMS to be exceptional in quality, originality and the quality of the restoration. Many of these cars are tarted up rats, so this one might be a gem and worth more than the bids.

Still, I think one would not want to get too much further ahead of the market, even for a quality product as this car seems to be. I'd think you were pushing your luck beyond $40,000 or so. You have to hold onto it for some time to make your money back if you go over that. These cars are, after all, not as good as they look.

Could be the bidding will grind to a halt in the high $30s....let us know.

fintail

What is the photo edit that blurs the backround like in those pics? I think it is kind of cool, makes it look like a model car.

fintail

Nicest one of these I have seen in a long time

Olds looks ok, Chevy looks like an unreclaimable heap, prices are nonsense

All of that resto work, but nothing done to the seats?

texases

The BMW 3.0CS - seems like he's asking original $$ for a pretty non-original car. 'CSL chrome wheel arches'? That's a plus? I remember seeing those on lots of tarted-up MBs, the one with the gold model insignias. And you'd think putting the money into the seats would be more than returned now, when he's trying to sell it as a 'concours' type of car.

jlflemmons

While a beautiful example, at least in the pictures, I still remember the stories about parking these sleds on uneven ground and not being able to open the doors due to body flex. They do make for a sweet cruiser, though.

Mr_Shiftright

Uh-oh....40s Olds with "floor rust" usually means the dogs on the ladder frame (where the body bolts on) are rusted as well. Buyer beware on that one.

im_brentwood

That CS is not worth it.

Power REAR windows? New one for me.
Seats are, as you said, not a plus.

Plus it's a carbd CS.. it's not a CSi, it's got a 4-speed which is nice, but it has no AC and the BMW community often frowns upon M-Car stuff added to non-M cars.

benjaminh

with rare manual transmission...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1968-Mercury-Cougar-XR7-302-4V-Manual-Trans_W0QQi- temZ280147188114QQihZ018QQcategoryZ6339QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

benjaminh

It seems to be in great shape, but the price (50k, reserve not met) seems high. So far there are no bids. Still, I kind of like this car...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1971-JAGUAR-XKE-ROADSTER-12K-ORIG-MILE-SURVIVOR-2- -TOPS_W0QQitemZ110164955683QQihZ001QQcategoryZ6277QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZV- iewItem

benjaminh

The nicest Contour you'll ever find....

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2002-Jaguar-X-Type-5-Speed-Spotless-Florida-Low-M- iles_W0QQitemZ280147217051QQihZ018QQcategoryZ43915QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZV- iewItem

benjaminh

5 speed manual (you can tell I like manuals)

Cheap luxury car that's fun to drive?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Acura-Legend-L_W0QQitemZ140152923265QQihZ004QQcat- egoryZ5336QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

urnews

Sincerely ugly paint color.

gsemike

I'm seriously looking at this for a cheap family hauler:

97 Pathfinder

It seems at this price point I'm generally looking at 100k mile cars. My goal is a few reliable years without making payments. I need to find out what he's been towing but what do you think?

michaellno

I have to admit that I really like it .. sounds like it has been well taken care of. Good miles for the age.

Just seems like $5600 is a lot for a 10 year old vehicle that will get you 15-17 MPG.

im_brentwood

Hmmm.. that's an odd one..

See, if it is documented to be a genuine 12k mile car that's all original, I dunno.. it's gotta be worth north of 50k.

OTOH, it's a Brown S2, I can't think of an open E-Type that I would want less... to me the S2s are ungainly looking and.. well.. it's brown.

Mr_Shiftright

An odd duck this E-Type. Were it red it would be already gone in a cloud of dust well north of $50K. But the hideous color is one problem and documenting the miles is another.

The plus side is that it is so HARD to find E-Types that haven't been all botched up, that as crazy as it sounds, for $50K you could strip the paint and put on a better color and still come out all right. Re-sale red or BRG.

Potential as fully (and I do mean fully) restored in different color? $80K. So at $50K you have $30K wiggle room to make the car into something.

As for the color change, I think most buyers would be grateful you did it. Jag buyers aren't as fussy as Camaro buyers, oddly enough.

But all original is a RARE find in an E-Type.

PATHFINDER: Pretty tough trucks

ACURA LEGEND: Nice old cars and still popular, but I don't know about the "luxury" part. It just feels mid-level Japanese to me.

akangl

with rare manual transmission...

My mom had one of these with a hurst shifter in it, I believe it was a 4 or 5 speed, not sure, would have to ask her. She'd give her left arm to have another one like it, her's was yellow with a black top. My dad took it and sold it one day......its a miracle he lived through that. :sick:

Mr_Shiftright

No 5 speeds available. American cars didn't get that for some time.

Actually a 3-speed manual trans is the worst possible option for that Cougar, and will hurt resale, not help it. A 4-speed would have added a thou or two to the value.

GOOD QUESTION! What's the first domestic 5-speed?

qbrozen

hmmmm.... i'm surprised nobody had comments on those two I posted. this crowd usually has lots to say about porsches.

Mr_Shiftright

Well I above all people hate to say (sob! choke!) this but 1980s Porsches are just old used cars at this point in time. There's a lot of them out there, mostly worn-out rats, so they tend to fall below most people's radar.

I would comment that the 1980s Porsche you want is the much-improved 1987--1989 models. The Carreras before that (back to 1984) have some serious clutch and transmission issues) and the C2 and C4 that came right after also had scary problems (I guess most of which have already been cured by the previous unfortunate owners).

So, for me, if it's not a 1987-89 Porsche, I kinda yawn...and yearn for the glory days of the early 70s cars, which were wonderful.

I sometimes recommend the 1978-83 SCs as THE good cheap sturdy entry-level Porsche, as long as you realize that these cars are not refined by modern standards, especially in noise levels, ventilation and shifting effort.

texases

Shifty warned about the targa - I've also heard the top's tough to store in the front trunk, if you don't get it just right, you'll have a dent in the hood. As for the AWD 911, I'd like it, except I'd get the 2wd version, maybe save a few $$, some weight, some complexity.

Mr_Shiftright

The targa seals are very expensive (and don't fix the problem anyway) and the windshield header seal is one you don't ever want to mess with. It installs in pieces...so you are cutting the seal that is supposed to keep out water? Hmmm.....

You can minimize water leaks by actually modifying the entire window frame internally to get the vent window to come up higher on the targa roof. But you'll always have a wet car either when parked or when driving.

urnews

Seems like a good deal.

fintail

Looks like a good inexpensive survivor

andre1969

There's something about the front-end of those early 70's big Oldsmobiles that's always bothered me a bit. Mainly the way the headlights have those little peaks in the middle.

That one appeals to me though, for some reason. Probably because it does look like it's nice and clean. And I always thought 4-door hardtops were cool. Had one once, a '69 Bonneville. And even though that car was a total piece of junk, I still wish I'd never gotten rid of it!

If that '71 were closer, I'd definitely consider it.

bumpy

What's the first domestic 5-speed?

Not counting captive imports? Probably the Escort or Omni.

qbrozen

so what do you think of that '89 911? Like texas, I'd probably like to avoid AWD. I just really like the looks of that one. How does that price stack up?

Not that I'm planning on buying one right now, anyway.

Mr_Shiftright

The 1989 C4 is really not the same car as the 1989 Carrera and is not a good choice at all. They suffered from clutch issues and cylinder head problems. Probably the worst 911 ever made, sad to say---it's a marvelous car to drive but not to own. It was introduced too soon in its development. On the later 91s (check VIN #s) these problems were finally resolved.

A definite and non-debatable "NO!" from me on the '89 C4.

gsemike

I bought it. It has some dings but looks great from 20 feet and it appears to have been very well maintained. It drove beautifully up to 70 miles per hour and everything works. The tires, exhaust and struts are new within the past month as are the running boards. I'm not looking for even 10k miles a year so I think that it will serve me dutifully.

im_brentwood

Amen!

And they understeer horribly. OK, I understand that the 911s have a reputation for being tail-happy, but did they really need to give it the handling qualities of a FWD car?

I once had a 1990 C2, it was a decent car.. if memory serves, you want a 92+

british_rover

and heard to avoid all of the Targa Model 911s but I assume they eventually fixed the water leak problems.

When did that happen after the 993 bodystyle or did they ever get the targas right on the air cooled porsches?

Mr_Shiftright

I don't know the answer to that question. I'd have to look at the roof. You can spot the defect very easily. Just look where the top of the window frame meets the targa top.

fintail

Oddball

More 80s style

Mr_Shiftright

That Mustang looks like a real good deal!

Boy, Shelby would put his name on ANYTHING back then wouldn't he? Shameless Carroll, shameless!

benjaminh

That 85 mph speedometer on that Mustang is interesting. There was an era, I think, when nearly every car was required by law to have a speedometer that only went to 85. I think that lasted from about 1979 to about 1986, but I'm not sure. My 1988 Olds has that, but I think it may have been just out of habit or laziness at that point—I'm not sure it was required. It's not that hard to get to 85. When I was a kid it seemed like almost all standard spedometers went to 120. I was with someone who actually went to 110 once in a 1970 station wagon on an almost empty freeway.I was just a kid at the time and it seemed like fun, but knowing what I know now about how those station wagons handle, it gives me a bit of pause when I think about it. The speedometers today seem a bit silly. My 02 4 cylinder Accord goes to 140, and I'm pretty sure I'll never see north of 85. And the new 08 Accords go up to 160. Why? I somehow doubt even the 6 cylinder models can really go that fast, and of course it would never be safe.

Anyway, here's a car that Frank Lloyd Wright said was one of the most beautiful ever built. FLW liked fancy cars. He used to say thinks like, "as long as we have the luxuries the necessitites an pretty much take care of themselves." It was a recipe for living life on the financial edge, which is what he did for much of his life.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1941-Lincoln-Continental-Coupe-Frame-Up-Restore_W- 0QQitemZ290156367289QQihZ019QQcategoryZ6304QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem-

benjaminh

This one is in kind of rough shape....

But I have fond memories of riding around Newport Beach, Ca, as a kid with one of my mom's friends in one of these. You didn't have to go that fast to have fun—20 mph around a corner would sometimes do it.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1964-PORSCHE-356C-ORIGINAL-MATCHING-ENGINE-NUMBER- S_W0QQitemZ250159512357QQihZ015QQcategoryZ6428QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewI- tem

andre1969

I actually kinda like that Shelby Lancer. It's kind of a slap in the face to see the Shelby name on it, but hey, it WAS the 80's! I remember when the Lancer/LeBaron GTS came out for 1985, there was a writeup in one rag about it that said this was "what the Tempo/Topaz SHOULD have been!"

It's amazing how much mileage Chrysler got out of that K-car platform. In fact, some of its remnants are around to this day, such as the 2.4 in the PT Cruiser and its bolt pattern. I think the 2.4 used in newer stuff like the Avenger/Stratus and the Caliber is an all-new unit, a collaboration among Mitsubishi, Hyundai, and Chrysler, or something like that.

Mr_Shiftright

Hmmm...that car would require CLOSE examination of the body structure. One thing about the 356...if the rust has intruded into the suspension mounting points, or at the B pillar or A pillar as it joins the floor, you can just throw the car away, there is no making it right.

356C is the one to have however with disk brakes. Might be worth saving if the rust isn't too bad.

Iffy. Monstrous undertaking regardless.

Figure $15K body and paint, $10K engine, $5K clutch and trans, $4K interior + glass chrome suspension tires wheels---we are in $50K no problem here and car's not worth that (yet).

benjaminh

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1971-porsche-914_W0QQitemZ150156889074QQihZ005QQc- ategoryZ6430QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Wow, that much to get a 356 back into shape. A bit of a shock. They were fun cars, but for that kind of money maybe something else would be more fun.

Back in the 70s those cars were cheap, and you could just drive them for fun, not as museum pieces.

Also had a friend when I was a kid with a 914 a bit like this one. He liked to flirt with the ladies by flashing the eyes of this car. He did it to my Mom in her 66 VW bug convertible once in a while. The car, along with his kids, was his pride and joy, and he had a lot of fun with it—which was good since he died of cancer when he was not yet 50. Makes me think I'd better look into my midlife crisis car just in case.

texases

That 914 looks like it would be fun, and not too much $$ to get it into a decent runner.

Mr_Shiftright

914--kinda scary. These are, of course, merely VW engines, and if the guy who modified it flycut the heads and installed flat-top pistons (which is what it sounds like he did), then what we have here is a hand grenade engine running way too high compression.

I think under any strain (hauling [non-permissible content removed] uphill on a warm day in 5th gear), it's going to chunk out a piston. This always seems to happen to hotted-up VW engines. They just don't have the strength, machining and most importantly, the metallurgy of a Porsche engine.

Also putting on 912 carbs is just another nuisance. Most people throw away the 912 carbs and put on Dell'ortos.

I'd say save yer money and get a nice 2.0 stock 914 for $7500 and be happy.

im_brentwood

That 356 is a RAT! I've restored em, driven em.. etc.. I have NEVER seen a 356 that rusty that wasn't 2-3 times as bad underneath. $13,000? He's dreaming.. $4k parts car.

Mr_Shiftright

Maybe I'd give him $13,000 if it were a Super 90 Roadster--LOL! Then I'd have another $83,000 to fix it up!

fintail

Couldn't be more common, but doesn't seem too bad

im_brentwood

You mean a Twin-Grille S90

Mr_Shiftright

Even a single grille---a twin grille would be more than $100K. These cars are so red hot right now you wouldn't believe.

im_brentwood

Tell me about it.. remember the Ivory A Coupe that I used to run around in?

Sold it like 4 years ago for $13k.. still kicking myself for that.

You'll think I am crazy, but I want a T5 Coupe with some Patina to use as a driver.. something i can put 5-10k on a year like I used to with my old SC.. I have a nice strong 912 motor to drop in and I'm all set, I have lived with B drums and I'm fine with that.

Problem is, a stupid T5 Normal coupe is $25k+++ for one with many needs from what I have seen... the days of the $10-15k driver are long gone

texases

Now you and Shifty have me wondering - what 911 would you get for a daily driver (non-turbo, non-targa, non-cabriolet, air cooled, 2WD, under $30k)?

Can these be worked on by a normal interested person, or is it more like a Ferarri?

Mr_Shiftright

I think a 1987-1989 Carrera would be just great.

You can do some of the work sure. No they are nothing like a Ferrari. They are very reliable cars you can drive every day like a Chevy Malibu.

But I don't think you could do a very good tune-up without special skills and tools. But you could do brake pads, air filters, oil changes (if you remember to put in the right amount--it's a dry sump engine and it carries a LOT of oil). And you could pop off door panels, change batteries, wiper blades, fuses, things like that. Pretty German and pretty straightforward.

But I wouldn't do monkeying with the engine, no, since that's a $12,000--$15,000 repair bill.

Best thing REQUIRED!!!-- is a cylinder leakdown test before you buy one.