Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

fintail

Didn't the 412 have some kind of bad directional stability issue?

I'd think original 49-51 Mercury coupes are about as common as original 32-34 Fords these days

I like how it looks stock, myself...but then again, I think most 32-34 Fords look best stock as well.

qbrozen

I'm with you. I like to LOOK stock.

I just don't want it to BE stock. At least not as far as handling and braking are concerned.

andre1969

y'know, it's been so long since I've seen one that WASN'T black, or lowered, or both, or customized in some other way, that I almost forgot about how they looked stock!

It's in beautiful shape, and real purty to look at, but I guess it's just not something that would catch my eye, lure me in, and make me want to OWN one!

Style-wise, I think it's ahead of something like a '51 DeSoto or Chrysler, which were kind of upright and clunky. But I think something like a '51 Olds or Buick is more attractive. But I guess there aren't too many people who are really nostalgic for something of this era. I could see somebody wanting an old '49-51 Merc to customize, but this one's way too pretty to do that to.

stevedebi

"Why the heck didn't they make a 530 wagon?"

Here in SOCAL I've seen a Bimmer 5 series "Touring", which is basically a wagon. Not sure of the year, but it looked newer (2-3 years old).

stevedebi

RE: 412. I drove a 411 for a couple of years in Germany. The thing I found most interesting was that it had a heater that ran on gasoline. You could set the clock to warm up the car (by burning gas) so that the windows would be clear when you got to the car in the winter.

I winter time we put 25 kilos of animal feed over each front wheel - no problems with traction!

texases

You're right, there are 6cyl 5 series wagons, but I think those are 525i models with the smaller 2.5l(or, confusingly, lower output 3.0 l) engines. Something that heavy needs the full 3.0i treatment.

lemko

Reminds me of the one that got away - a black 1950 Buick Roadmaster sedan I saw at a local car show when I was a junior in college. The guy only wanted $600 and it ran well and was rust-free. Oh, the paint was shot, the interior was musty and stained, and all the chrome pitted, but what do you expect for $600? Alas, even this paltry amount was too much for a poor student.

One of my professors had a really nice two-tone green 1952 Buick Super Riviera two-door hardtop.

qbrozen

yup, as texas said, those are 525 OR they also made 540 wagons. But skipped right over the 530.

british_rover

I saw a bad [non-permissible content removed] 540 wagon yesterday with M wheels and a little lip spoiler on it. It might have also been lowered slightly but that could have just been the larger wheels.

Silver with medium tint on the windows.

Mr_Shiftright

A modded BMW wagon? Sounds like a married man yearning to be free... :shades:

qbrozen

brentwoodbill was just saying on the RWTIV board that he helped someone convert their 540 wagon to a 6-speed. Sounds like a fun grocery getter.

qbrozen

I just checked autotrader in my area. All '00-'02 5-series are $17k+ with 70k+ miles. Not exactly the bargain I was hoping for.

I did find a couple of '95 530i with between 65k-70k miles for $5k-$6k.

I forget the consensus here. Should those 3 liter V8s be avoided?

texases

"Should those 3 liter V8s be avoided?"

Not sure, but I think they had the same Nikasil problem as the early 4l V8s, so I'd avoid them - they also don't have much power to offer over the 3l 6-cyl, and nowhere near the parts.

fintail

"Imagine the fun that'll be!!"

stevedebi

"You're right, there are 6cyl 5 series wagons, but I think those are 525i models with the smaller 2.5l(or, confusingly, lower output 3.0 l) engines. Something that heavy needs the full 3.0i treatment."

Every time I hear of or see a BMW 3.0 liter model, I think of a woman I worked with in Germany. She had a 1976 BMW CS 3.0 liter. I got to drive it once and was it NICE. On the twisty back roads I got the feeling that the vehicle simply would NOT leave the road. Quite amazing.

On the other hand, I had my VW 411 in for some muffler work, and the mechanic was working on a 3.0 CS. Evidently they had to remove the engine or some such nonsense in order to replace the dual exhaust system.

Mr_Shiftright

yeah 3.0 CS coupes are rust buckets, a devil to work on, too, and not really worth that much unless you have the lightweight alloy racing model. I always found them to be a very nose-heavy car, not a sports car at all---more like a nice "GT" long-distance cruiser with good handling characteristics.

gsemike

For what it's worth my friend has a 99 528 witht eh sport package. It's made it to 123k with no real problems. He does the prevenative maintenance but is far from a fanatic. The interior shows signs that it's not brand new but it's still a sweet driving car.

Mr_Shiftright

My buddy has a '98 of the same car. Also been basically a very good car but the usual BMW glitches all along the way....electrical and cooling system bugaboos. Around 100K now.

Seems like BMWs like to act up right around 80K...I think it's a good time to either ditch 'em or put a few thou into them to get you through the long haul. I'd certainly overhaul the front end control arm bushings and swap out the radiator and water pump just as a matter of course. Otherwise, probably happy sailing even if you have to pull up your power windows by hand once in a while or break into your own car when it locks you out.

qbrozen

I'd rather have a 3 liter I6, but those are much newer (I'm not sure when that engine came about, but I believe it was around '00). The older, relatively inexpensive 3 liters are V8s.

im_brentwood

Actually I did the swap on it.

The parts came off of a wrecked, same year, 540i 6-speed sedan. It's a direct swap, I had to have myfriend at the dealer do some programming with the GT1 to get the CEL off and such, but it works perfectly.

It's a very expensive swap, you only do something like that if you HAVE to have a 6-speed 540 Wagon, it is just not ever going to be an expense that can ever be recouped.

I do all kinda funny swaps.. at the moment I have a 93 740i that really needs a trans. I am debating the following options...

1) Slap a 6-speed in it.
2) Fix the trans in it (I'm too busy/lazy but the parts are $400ish to do the whole job)
3) Get a used one that I know of for $400 (Which makes the most sense).
4) Buy a reman (Yeh, right.. a proper reman approaches the value of the car)

im_brentwood

Shifty,

Correct on the Mk1s... they were the "2.4 Litre Saloon" and the "3.4 Liter Saloon", I remembered that after I posted but knew you'd correct it

I have had a few (Remember back when I was into Jags?) old Jag Sedans.. the Mk2 3.8Ls with overdrive and wires have always been the money cars as you know, and yeah they look nice but I never understood why they seem to be exponentially more money than a 3.8S.. the S-Types are so much nicer to drive.

texases

Yep, the I6 530i is more $$$, started in 2001. If you're thinking about the '94-'95 3.0l V8, you might also look at a '92 or '93 535i. I'd also look at a '97 - '99 528i.

Mr_Shiftright

You know how it is...it's the supply and demand equation that drives the market. Many buyers find the "S" not as attractive....had there been no Mark II, then the "S" would probably be the money car.

I do think the S is a less harmonious design but given that people pay big bucks for a '59 Cadillac, one can't use harmony of design as an argument for value, now can one?

qbrozen

you mean you're not into jags anymore? When was your last Vanden Plas?

steine13

Learned Friends,

Reading this craigslist ad almost made me cry. I would like to share it with you, and wonder if anyone could tell me whether I should buy it.

http://lansing.craigslist.org/car/406077455.html

If nothing else, it should be an investment!

-Mathias

urnews

A very classy write-up.

Mr_Shiftright

Phew! That's a mighty powerful dose of lyrical cow manure!

Well at least the seller is literate, gotta say that. Too bad he didn't mention in that barrage of non-sequitors which model S it was.

I'd like to see him write an essay on "massive depreciation", as in how to lose $75,000 in 9 years.

On the positive side, the price is actually okay, market correct (if you dare).

Not a bad ride for the price of a used Hyundai!

fintail

Yes, that is a nice ad.

Price looks correct, if it is in really nice condition. These things have a few known issues (AC evaporators come to mind), so one has to be a little leery. They also can rust if neglected, as well. But, they are a lot less troublesome than the S class that replaced them. The W140 is the last of the old school S class.

It's either an S420 or an S500...S420s are pretty uncommon, so I would wager on the latter.

benjaminh

a rare 5-speed manual....

Looks like a lot of car for c.4-5k:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1988-BMW-735i-Rare-5-Speed-Best-Looking-735i-On-E- bay_W0QQitemZ280146330727QQihZ018QQcategoryZ6009QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZVie- wItem

gsemike

Beware any Brooklyn car. Those are hard miles, especially 168,000 of them

Mr_Shiftright

I've driven the stickshift 7 series cars...it's like shifting a baseball bat in a vat of glue. Not fun.

Oh, salvage title you say? No problem!

Oh, new paint you say but the clear coat is peeling? No problem!

Oh, new AC compressor but it needs to be charged? No problem!

Oh, you put in "new" seats but the driver's power motor is out? No problem!

Oh, "only" 168,000 miles. No problem!

Now why do you suppose he has 0 bids on 4 days and 2 kicked auctions already?

I'd buy it for $1,000 bucks. And probably lose money on it.

No, I wouldn't buy it for anything actually.

benjaminh

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Rare-1963-Studebaker-Lark-Daytona-Convertible_W0Q- QitemZ280146377998QQihZ018QQcategoryZ6466QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

That one that said "imagine the fun that will be!" made me laugh.

benjaminh

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1960-Austin-Healey-Bugeye-Sprite_W0QQitemZ2501584- 25287QQihZ015QQcategoryZ6023QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

I used to want one of those BMWs (not seriously, just in a fantasy world), but shifty just cured me of that fantasy. I'll stick with my 1988 Olds 98 for now. And when it's dead I might get a new 08 Accord exl with the 4 cylinder 5-speed manual. Almost as big as that 7 series, I think...

I think that bugeye is very good looking in an ugly duckling way.

Mr_Shiftright

Yikes, wrong engine, wrong wheels and a lotta work. Iffy.

benjaminh

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Rare-1962-Citroen-H-Antique-Delivery-Truck-Great-- Deal_W0QQitemZ270158489338QQihZ017QQcategoryZ6183QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZVi- ewItem

I've never seen one of these before.

texases

5 sp - not a plus on a big car like this (to me)
168k - still a lot, regardless
a/c - doesn't work, he could get it charged easily
seat - tilts to the left? what's up with that?
salvage title - I'd rather not have to believe a story...

edit - Didn't see Shifty's comments, obviously

Anyway, not my favorite looking one, later 7 much better.

benjaminh

Just 2,000,000

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ROLLS-ROYCES-RAREST-ONE-OFF-ALL-FUNDS-TO-NON-PROF- IT_W0QQitemZ140148644716QQihZ004QQcategoryZ6384QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZView- Item

I guess that's enough torture for tonight!

Mr_Shiftright

Gee, that Bug eye is all wrong but on the other hand is priced about one/half of a good one. Not sure you could correct all the errors for a mere $7,500 additional. Too bad about the 948 engine. That's what's supposed to be in there, but put in a later model 1275 cc, add a hotter cam and MGB carbs and WHEEE! you won't believe the fun you can have in this car!

Other "watch-outs!" are the transmission, which often needs synchros and bearings (not easy to find) and the front end king pins, which require very special machining to get right. Not a DIY job.

Fun per dollar ratio is HIGH, but this might not be the car to start with. Very responsive car and so little power that you'd have to try hard to hurt yourself. No modern car can put this kind of smile on your face IMO.

50 Rolls --- the price is preposterous. There's not a Rolls Royce on god's good earth worth anywhere near that kind of money. What's he think he has there, Lawrence of Arabia's pre-war Phantom?

Get real man!

benjaminh

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1969-69-Alfa-Romeo-Duetto-1750-Spider-Convertible- _W0QQitemZ180151304684QQihZ008QQcategoryZ84154QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewI- tem

More torture...so many hidden treasures out there.

That bugeye does look like a lot of fun.

If this one was in good shape it might be too, but it's a bit of a mess.

benjaminh

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1975-Ferrari-308GT4-42K-miles-nice-original-condi- tion_W0QQitemZ280146831903QQihZ018QQcategoryZ6212QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZVi- ewItem

Kind of rough shape, but still fun to drive? Didn't James Bond drive one of these (underwater?) in The Spy Who Loved Me, or is my memory all wet?

benjaminh

The great grandfather of my car, in nice shape....

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1967-Oldsmobile-425-V8-Ninety-Eight-Four-Door-Har- dtop_W0QQitemZ150153004898QQihZ005QQcategoryZ6407QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZVi- ewItem

benjaminh

"blown 468 Chevy engine"?

The digital dash and the gleaming chrome engine and underside are something to be seen...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1941-Willys-Blown-468-Finest-restoration-anywhere- _W0QQitemZ160151545736QQihZ006QQcategoryZ6470QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewIt- em

benjaminh

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/41-Willys-Roadster-Swoopster-BBC-4L60E-Dupont-Cal- endar_W0QQitemZ230163380096QQihZ013QQcategoryZ6470QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZV- iewItem

I'll stop now, I promise.

Mr_Shiftright

Alfa Duetto -- too far gone I think to restore. Not worth it. You can buy these cars all nice and shiny for not too much money.

Ferrari 308 GT4 -- the hardest Ferrari in the world to sell to anybody. Maybe $15,000 tops?? and it's like throwing your money into a blazing woodstove. No upside whatsoever. Miles are kinda high for a Ferrari. One good thing about the car is that it is California smog exempt, because it would never have passed here. Just look what happened to the last guy. Don't go there. Ugly car IMO.

im_brentwood

My last Jag was.. hmm.. close to 4 years ago now. My 99 XJR lost an engine due to a Nikasil issue just outside of warranty.

Jaguar largely told me to go pound sand. Jaguar can rot as far as I am concerned.

Now, i still love the X300s, they were the best cars, reliability-wise, that Jaguar EVER made, problem is, they are now 10 years old at least.. so they are getting up there in age.

Oh, don't get an E34 530i Wagon.. get a 525iT. The 525 has a MUCH more reliable drivetrain that requires a LOT less expense to keep running and to beat the band it's not much slower and they get great mileage.

jlflemmons

Anybody notice that the wheels are straight ahead, but the steering wheel is upside down?

british_rover

Now, i still love the X300s, they were the best cars, reliability-wise, that Jaguar EVER made, problem is, they are now 10 years old at least.. so they are getting up there in age.

Funny you are the third person now to tell me that very thing. The first person I wrote off as a fruit cause he is one of those, "new cars suck only cars built in the 90s and earlier are any good," kind of people. The second guy is a little less nutty but you aren't nutty at all so I guess it is true.

andre1969

Anybody notice that the wheels are straight ahead, but the steering wheel is upside down?

I probably wouldn't have noticed it unless you mentioned it! I guess it's easy to do with those types of steering wheels where the bottom half is symmetric with the top! Or I guess it's possible that the center hub with the logo is just on upside-down? Or can it only be put on one way?

Also kinda interesting how pristine that interior looks, except for the wheel, which is all cracked to hell. I guess that's common with those old steering wheels though. My '67 Catalina's wheel is cracked in two places at the column, and two places on the rim.

lemko

Ugh! The perfect ride for an up-and-coming Russian mobster from NE Philly! Personally, I'd rather have a 1988 S-Class. That generation was Mercedes pinnacle.

qbrozen

thanks for the tips.

As you may remember, I have a thing for jags. I have no idea why. I've never owned one. I've driven quite a few, though. I just love them. Always feel great and look great. SO, you're saying to get a '94-97. hmmmm... maybe. All of the negative comments you hear and read really affect one's perspective, ya know? I'd be worried about having one as a daily driver. But once my current lease is up, I'd really like to find a cheap luxo car to drive around in. I'm getting a bit tired of all these new car payments.