Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

texases

Re the Malibu - that guy needs odometer reading lessons, doesn't he? And as for the Suburban, 12mpg would be great - that's what my '95 with a 350 gets. Probably more like 10 for a 2500 with a 454 :sick:

210delray

US safety regs mandated the 85-mph speedometer starting with the 1980 models, and the "55" numeral had to be highlighted. Reagan yanked the regulation after the '82 model year, so manufacturers went back to their own devices. As I recall, most if not all of the imports, including US-built Hondas, reverted to 100-120 mph speedometers in the '83 model year, but the domestics kept the 85-mph speedos for a long time afterward for the bulk of their products. I don't remember if they still bothered to highlight the "55."

My '90 Sable still had an 85-mph speedo. Now of course, things have gotten absurd, with mundane cars having 140 mph (or more) speedos, when the cars' top speeds are lower AND all the useable numbers are crunched into about half of the dials.

fintail

My mom had a 93 Taurus that had an 85mph speedo. I want to say that '55' was circled in red or something, too, as the 55 law didn't finally die until like 1993-95 didn't it?. The speedo in the 85 Tempo we had back in the day only went to 80, IIRC. As a new driver, I would peg the needle on that poor little thing whenever I could get away with it.

I think Honda Accords for years have had 160mph speedos. A friend of mine had a 92 that I think went to 140 or 160. Amusing.

steven922

I'm no benz expert, but something about this says "run"

http://southbend.craigslist.org/car/633285494.html

steven922

The pictures of the car in 1950's are great when it was new, but isn't it odd there is no picture of what it looks like now?

http://southbend.craigslist.org/car/633393385.html

fintail

Looks like it just came out of a barn. Odd that it has all the AMG trim but has US bumpers, so I don't know it it is actually grey market as most period AMG cars were, and grey market cars rarely lost their (nicer) Euro bumpers. I'd say it wasn't converted until the mid 80s anyway, with the blackout trim. Take off a zero and someone might want it.

stevedebi

" A friend of mine had a 92 that I think went to 140 or 160. Amusing."

When I was REALLY young (circa 1970), the next door neighbor had a new dodge roadrunner. I asked him how fast it went and he said "I don't know; the speedometer only goes to 150...".

That was the model with the big rear spoiler, IIRC.

stevedebi

"The pictures of the car in 1950's are great when it was new, but isn't it odd there is no picture of what it looks like now?"

I think the 4th pic is the current one.

Mr_Shiftright

The 2D version of that car is SO MUCH prettier. The 4D is a clunker IMO.

78 Benz 450SLC. yeah, more like "please drag it away for free". You can buy these clean, shiny, detailed, full tank of gas, all ready to roll for $5,000 all day long.

fintail

I wonder what a Superbird would do...

My E55 goes to 160, but is governed at 155. I think it will do around 180-185 when delimited.

andre1969

The 2D version of that car is SO MUCH prettier. The 4D is a clunker IMO.

Do you mean the low-slung President Speedster / Hawk style coupe, or the more upright, clunky 2-door sedan? I think by 1953-54 standards, those more upright 2- and 4-door sedans looked good, but once the '55 Chevy, Ford, and Plymouth hit the scene, they looked really old, really fast. And by the time '57 rolled around and just about everybody short of Chevy, Pontiac, and the few remaining independents were all new, the Studes looked positively ancient.

They did offer a hardtop model in '58 called the Starlight, which had a nice, modern, Chrysler/DeSoto style roofline, but the body it was attached to was still pretty clunky, especially with the swollen, slapped-on quad headlights.

It's interesting though how much more gracefully the low-slung coupe aged. It still looked good by 1964 standards. I don't think there are too many other 1953-vintage designs that could have been updated that well.

andre1969

I wonder what a Superbird would do...

Just doing a quick Google search, I found this blurb, which quotes a top speed of 140 mph, and 0-60 in 6.1 seconds for a 426 Hemi, 4-speed Superbird. It says that the race versions would top 200 mph.

Mr_Shiftright

Is that before or after it went airborne?

55 Studebaker--yeah, I meant the 2D President hardtop coupe, not the Speedster, which is a bit too garish.

What's with Studebaker names? President, Dictator, Commander....did they make a Tyrant or a Despot?

fintail

Big one and little one

stevedebi

"Is that before or after it went airborne? "

No, 200+ MPH is correct. Keeping it on the ground was the whole reason for that huge wing spoiler on the back, which was a production item. I was living in North Carolina at the time, and those folks are SERIOUS about their NASCAR.

Anyway, I remember seeing some races on TV in which the roadrunners went 200 MPH or so.

Mr_Shiftright

yeah I was referring to stock cars going airborne. NASCAR cars are specialty built machines. There's not enough HP to go 200 MPH on a stock car of that vintage, nor the suspension or tires.

I'd guess a street stock Superbird could do about 140 MPH, maybe 150 on a long, long stretch of flat road on a windless day. But it would be white knuckle-driving, that's for sure.

NASCAR cars are basically out of control at 200 MPH, which is how you win. You have to have the guts to be out of control.

Like the good ol boys say; "If you are in control, you ain't goin' fast enough"

I guess on those old monsters you'd need what----800HP to hit 200 MPH?

steven922

http://southbend.craigslist.org/car/635270643.html

210delray

Yeah, kind of ironic as the ad does allude to Andre: "this would be a great sunday cruiser or donor motor for that little dart you have sitting in the back 40."

How'd he know that?

andre1969

Yeah, that is pretty ironic! I always thought something like that would be cool to do with my Dart, but I'm sure it's far gone enough that a 440, even a mild one like that, would probably tear it apart!

I've never driven one of those monstrous '74-78 New Yorkers, but always liked the style. I wonder how unwieldy one would be compared to the '79 New Yorkers? I never can remember the overall length of these cars, but there have been a few times at Mopar shows where there would be one parked next to my 5th Ave, and comparing the two side by side, it doesn't look like the '79 shrunk by much. Not nearly as drastic as putting a '77 GM fullsize car up against a '76.

andre1969

there's actually two of them on Craigslist local to me. Here's a '77 coupe. I really don't care for this one, as I don't like the padded "reverse landau" roof with the little fixed opera window. You could still get a true hardtop coupe, right up through the final year in 1978, but it was pretty rare. Most of them were equipped with the opera windows, I guess to cash in on the personal luxury coupe craze of the time.

I like this '76 hardtop sedan better.

Oh, and this '79 New Yorker is still up for grabs.

steine13

Learned Friends,

It's easy for you to look at all that old iron people are posting and poke fun, but for us here on the frozen Tundra, rust isn't so much a problem as it's a way of life.

Junk yards in Michigan are very nearly pointless, unless you can find a fairly recent car that was very gently wrecked.

With the exception of RVs, motorcycles, and convertibles, old cars are just a mess.

Here'd be a typical "classic" from my neck of the woods.
http://lansing.craigslist.org/car/635976283.html

It's sad, really.
-Mathias

fintail

I think the decimal point is a couple places too far to the right

toomanyfumes

It's the same here in Wisconsin. I've had two vehicles (Toyota 4X4 pickup and VW Rabbit) that had the frame rust to where the car was unusable.

stickguy

http://southjersey.craigslist.org/car/636426192.html

andre1969

Even though the seller didn't quote an asking price, I get the feeling that he's realistic about what those two Peugeots are really worth, and really just wants to see them put to use and not wasted. I wonder if he'd be willing to just give them away, rather than see them get sent off to the junkyard. Or get in trouble with the town.

And speaking of which, it sounds like that town needs a hobby, or something to keep itself busy. I know abandoned/junk cars are considered an eyesore, but heck, on a large piece of property like that, they're really more like lawn ornaments! I mean, who the heck ratted the dude out? The 'possums and squirrels? Did a deer get pissed because they were spoiling its view of the forest?

Now I could understand if they were sitting in a parking lot, or on the front lawn in a finely manicured subdivision. But this sounds like the town is just sniffing for revenue (fines). Or maybe the guy just has a neighbor he quarrels with, and the guy ratted him out. Or maybe he just needs to hide his cars better. I should call him and give him some pointers. :P

fintail

My, what a big nose you have

A little optimistic

They all seem to end up like this

Not the best ROI for a 25 year term

Fancy Ford

oregonboy

This would be fun, but an $8k Miata would be more practical:
"Here's to you Mrs. Robinson"

Nobody wants this gas sucker, bet it drives nice:
VW Thunder Road

For the last of the original mustangs, this looks kind of nice. At least it's not the ridiculous "flat-back" body style.
Red 71 pony

This is funny... a "sporty" Camry:
5-spd Camry Coupe

And here is the Explorer equivalent, a 5-spd coupe SUV :surprise:
Sport

james

oregonboy

Hahahahaha, Fin, it looks like you were seaching "rare" too! :shades:

james

fintail

Yep, I'm lazy today.

Funny about that W8 Passat...I've seen a few of those on Seattle CL in the past month or so...either that or the same car is making rounds.

I also saw another 5-speed Camry coupe...sporty...more like unsellable, as the 55 year old woman who would drive it would never want a stick

Mr_Shiftright

Seems like sellers are forgetting the second part of the "rare" equation:

"It must be rare AND someone has to care"

Whoa! Dig that sporty Camry. Now there's a beast that could get away from you if you're not careful! How did they get that much power to the ground?

83 Mustang--- nice car and all, but GEEZ for that money you could put a hefty down on a new Mustang convertible which is about 25 times better a car. It's still a "flexi-flyer" '83 Mustang. Try $7,500 and hug the ankles of the man who buys it.

Citroen SM -- shoot, you can buy these cars all restored for $15K--$20K. They are really FUN to drive but ay, ay, ay, what a hassle to fix one up. Price isn't unreasonable at $5K if it's really nice inside and out, but I don't see how a man could come out whole on the other end----risky at $5K, better at $3,000.

Peugeots -- My friend with the Subaru shop also fixed Peugeots for many years. He has about 10 504s and 505s in his back lot, for parts to keep the few remaining diehard vive la france Peugeot owners happy. The 505 is really a nice car to drive, very comfortable, pretty solid build, and they can be fairly reliable (within limits) but every time you go down in one, you stay down for two weeks. It's a hobby car. I think a price of about....FREE....for both of them is fair enough. Parts donor---be noble.

Alfa Spider: I love this line in the ad, a self-fulfilling prophecy:

"'m asking $8,000 firm for this car for a few reasons. One, I have no pressing reason to sell the car"

HMMMM..... So he wants a top dollar premium price for a car with ripped seats, split convertible top window, etc? AND a bad synchro (I hate to break it to him but Alfas do have 1st gear synchro...only HIS Alfa doesn't at the moment). Try $4,000 and worship the buyer with love and chocolates.

qbrozen

HMMMM..... So he wants a top dollar premium price for a car with ripped seats, split convertible top window, etc? AND a bad synchro (I hate to break it to him but Alfas do have 1st gear synchro...only HIS Alfa doesn't at the moment). Try $4,000 and worship the buyer with love and chocolates.

hahaha. I was about to write something similar. Although I wouldn't balk at a $6k asking price ... if it is everything he claims (zero rust being the important part). These have gone up in price quite a bit the past couple of years. $4k will get you one in need of a top, paint, and new interior. Which this one might need ... tough to tell in pics taken in a dark garage at night.

Mr_Shiftright

I wouldn't pay $6K for it. For $6K you should be able to score an 80s Spider (with that ugly spoiler) without that many issues---not a pristine car, but GEEZ, bad synchros in first are a PITA. The LATER Alfa Spiders have gone up in value, because they are more attractive and have hardtops and more amenities, like power steering. They are still slow, of course.

Yeah really, why sell a car you're too lazy to push into sunlight. Everything about that ad just annoys me (as if you all hadn't noticed). :mad:

oregonboy

What do you mean, lack of amenities, like power steering? Maybe you missed the part where the seller touted that as a positive:

"The car ticks every box on the classic sports car checklist. It is rear wheel drive, with a rev-happy engine, manual steering for maximum feedback..."

Oops, I forgot, you were already annoyed. :P

michaellno

After my sister graduated from HS in 1985, she ran off to Pennsylvania with her boyfriend and his family. This lasted a year before she came to her senses and my dad "rescued" her and returned to California.

She then went to work as a waitress in a restaurant and found an '83 RX-7 GS for sale at a local dealer. Pleaded, cajoled and basically whined her way into getting my folks to co-sign for her (hey, they co-signed for me on a car after I graduated college, so fair's fair!). My dad was dead set against the idea of a rotary engine - "it leaks oil!"; "it's hard to work on", etc., but he and my mom eventually relented.

My sister worked her a-- off to make the payments - $262/mo (why I remember that number is a mystery to me). She had a big wing installed by the dealer and painted body color - although I'm sure it did nothing for the performance, it did look pretty cool. Was baby blue with a gray interior.

It was, thank god, a stick, and on the rare occasions I was able to drive it, I would constantly bounce the engine off the rev-limiter (7000 RPM). I remember one Friday when my best friend and I took it for a little midnight run in the mountains. God, that car could handle! Even though it only had 100HP and little 14" tires and wheels, the position of the engine behind the front axle made for some amazing acrobatics.

My sister kept that car for close to 10 years ... when she lived in San Diego with her (new) boyfriend (now husband), she got a call from the Sheriff's Department in the middle of the night telling her it had been stolen. Turns out a couple of guys and one of their girlfriends took it from the parking lot of the apt. complex where my sister lived. Apparently, they were doing something that attracted the law, and when they were pulled over, the guys split, leaving the girl in the back (remember, only 2 seats) to get pinched. No damage - in fact, the thieves left their cassettes in the car, so my sister got to keep those.

She sold the car after she got married and they started planning a family. She got, I think, $2200 for it and cried when she turned over the keys and title.

I'm sure there are days where she wishes she had still kept it .. and even though it wasn't my car, I wish it were still in the family.

qbrozen

But, don't forget, an '86 Veloce fetched over $10k at auction last year. ;b
And that wasn't even a perfect car (is there such a thing as a perfect '86 spider?).

Maybe he thinks 1st has no synchro because you can't downshift to 1st unless you are at a near complete stop. But, hell, my '06 Accord is pretty much the same way.

steine13

I've driven a couple of Alfa spiders. They're fun, but sports cars they're not. Heavy and kinda pokey.

Not exactly "light on its feet" or "tossable" or whatever a proper small sports car should be.

-Mathias

steine13

That 2door 5speed Camry... I kinda like it... If it's anything like a 1st gen Solara, those are mighty nice cars, great road vehicles, bulletproof.
And good-looking, in the Solara case.

The 2dr Camrys I like 'cuz they remind me of the late-70s 2door Benzes; immediately recognizable but just out of proportion.

Like manual transmissions, shorty Chevy vans, and boiled cabbage, my personal tastes may not be representative of the market as a whole.

-Mathias

fintail

The first Solara wasn't a bad piece of design, very inoffensive...I could see my mom in one. The second one, man, did they know how to make a car hideous. Easily one of the worst front and rear light designs in the automotive world.

A manual 2-door Camry does have to be relatively rare. I don't recall ever seeing a manual Solara, or noticing one anyway.

fintail

Here's another W8 car

And another

And yet another....maybe they aren't so rare

A realistically priced diesel W123...no way

I've always had a thing for these

qbrozen

*choke*
*gag*
*gasp*

$20k for a Passat with 85k miles?! I don't care if its got a jet engine, it ain't worth that kinda jingle. Hell, can't you get a Phaeton with less miles for that kinda money these days?

fintail

I've seen 04 W8 Phaetons with mileage in the 40s carrying asking prices around 25K on local CL. A better deal no doubt.

oregonboy

Ah yes, but my example was an AWD, 6-spd manual car. That must be muchly, way-more unusual. :P

The diesel Merc looks like a relative bargain (for someone who is into that sort of thing).

james

fintail

It probably is pretty uncommon. That's a problem with modern cars, it is very difficult to find production numbers for odd models, and I don't know of any way to find trim or paint breakdowns as is possible for so many old cars.

qbrozen

well, i just looked it up in Galves. An '04 Passat sedan 4motion w8 has a trade-in value of a whopping $10,500 ... with no more than 62k miles. Our little 85k-mile gem posted above is worth all of $8500. Hmmm... so the seller only wants more than twice its value. How nice of him.

An '04 Phaeton with no more than 52k has a trade-in value right around $20k.

stevedebi

"Hmmm... so the seller only wants more than twice its value. How nice of him. "

Well, he's not offering a trade in, he is looking for retail or private seller value, which is (at least) a LITTLE higher.

qbrozen

LOL!
Yeah, about $1500 higher. Soooo... yeah, twice its value.

Mr_Shiftright

An old diesel Benz is rarely a bargain, especially with diesel fuel a whopping .50 cents a gallon more than regular. So you get to drive a slow car that is no more economical than a NY taxi cab, but that costs a fortune to fix.

Great.

fintail

Must be something wrong here

A newer slow diesel

Mr_Shiftright

Looks like you found two decent deals there.

I guess the Caddy is a real bucket of rusty bolts or something. It should be worth about $14K in good clean #3 condition. Maybe it's a typo and should be $13,900?

gsemike

It's a battleship and a muscle car in one

Let's start that depreciation off right