Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

andre1969

If I were filthy rich enough, I think I'd even consider cars I like from the worst of the dark periods, if they were nice enough examples. For instance, find a 1982 Fleetwood that's in really nice shape in a gorgeous color, but has a crap 4.1 aluminum or an Olds Diesel? Well, if you're filthy rich enough, just buy it, enjoy it until the engine gives you a fit, and then replace the engine with something decent!

tjc78

but has a crap 4.1 aluminum or an Olds Diesel?

Ok ,the 4.1 maybe (if you can keep it cool) but the Olds diesel? It doesn't get much worse IMO.

I'd personally fill up the "warehouse" with Mark IIIs, IVs, and Vs, along with some late 70s Continentals and 85 - 89 Town Cars.

lokki

I can understand collecting GM cars, even from the dark ages, but, but a Cordoba?
The nicest thing I can say about them is that the front end looked very GM.

even down to the hood ornament.

Of course there IS that rich corinthian leather!



Still, I have no room to tease you.... I'm jealous of your Catalina, and if I had the money, I'd have a garage full of old, almost running Alfas, or worse one of these:





http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1969-1600-datsun-roadster-RESTOMOD-KA24DE-DOHC-5s- - - - peed_W0QQitemZ370190673990QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUS_Cars_Trucks?hash=item37019067399- - - - 0&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245&_trkparms=72%3A317%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318

Of course, the ones I could afford would look more like this....



Worst of all there's one close to me for sale!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1965-Datsun-1600-Roadster-SPL311_W0QQitemZ2903121- - - - 31037QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUS_Cars_Trucks?hash=item290312131037&_trksid=p4506.c0.m2- - - - 45&_trkparms=72%3A317%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318
What say ye gentlemen? Reasonable?

andre1969

Well, that's not really the generation of Cordoba that turns me on, although I do like them. The one I like is the '80-83, like this...


Preferably without the fake convertible top, but this is probably one of the few cars I would tolerate it with. I actually came close to buying one back in 2004. A local guy had one for sale. It was deep red with a white interior. Originally a slant six car, but it had a warmed-up 318 from a '75 Dart, and a smallblock Torqueflite 727 tranny and an 8 3/4 rear end from a 1970 Charger he managed to fit up under there. I think it had either a 3.23 or 3.55:1 ratio. The car sounded beautiful when it ran, but had no brakes (he offered to tow it for me), and when I looked underneath, there was some pretty bad rust. I was able to force myself to say no...and probably a good thing, since I found my '76 LeMans less than a year later, and probably wouldn't have bought it had I gotten that Cordoba.

If I was going for something a little older, I really like the 1978-79 Dodge Magnum. Same thing as the Cordoba, but much more attractive to my eye.

lokki

Well, I have to admit that that's a much nicer looking car, and I REALLY like this one



And Gee ! It's for sale on eBay RIGHT NOW :surprise: , and it's in Virginia.... :P

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1980-chrysler-cordoba-300_W0QQitemZ190302115528QQ- - cmdZViewItemQQptZUS_Cars_Trucks?hash=item190302115528&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245&_trk- - parms=72%3A317%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318">1980 Cordoba 300 318 V8

oregonboy

Lokki, it's posts like your previous one that make me wish that Edmunds had a "Best Of" of "Greatest Hits" section. Read-only, with the posts nominated by the members and selected by the hosts.

I'll bet you aced your creative-writing classes. :shades:

andre1969

I'd personally fill up the "warehouse" with Mark IIIs, IVs, and Vs, along with some late 70s Continentals and 85 - 89 Town Cars.

That sounds like a decent bunch to save. I also like the Mark VII. The Mark VI though, and the regular '80-84 Lincolns don't do much for me, though...they're okay, but just TOO boxy.

Another big Ford product I think would be kinda neat would be a '73-74 LTD or Grand Marquis 4-door hardtop. They're very rare, and hard to distinguish at a quick glance from the pillared sedans, which were a slim-pillar with frameless windows, but I guess there might still be a few out there...

lokki

Oregonboy -

It's just easy to write, because it's true - .. but thanks .... Yeah, I'm sort of a "Hired Pen" at my company when we have an ugly or difficult letter to write...

andre1969

Hmm, that one is kinda tempting. I might have to keep my eye on it! I wonder how much hp that 318 has been built up to? That year the 318 in these things only had 120 hp! :sick: There was a "performance" model that had a 185 hp 360-4bbl. I have a book that shows a 0-60 time of 10 seconds. Oddly, the 1979 Cordoba 300, which had a 195 hp 360-4bbl, was good for 9.5 seconds. The 80 was a much lighter car, so I'm surprised it was slower, even though it was a little weaker. Maybe they put taller gearing in the '80 and that held it back?

fintail

If I was to have one of those, I'd want a Mirada CMX

fintail

I think all of us car guys have dreams of filling up buildings with the cars we adore, even if few others feel likewise. If I was super wealthy and could do such a thing, apart from the normal expensive cars, I would have a huge collection of fintails and 126s, I'd probably try to get one of each model, and then go down another level to option variations, colors, maybe other platforms. I think I would start a collection of 80s era tuned MB too.

lokki

Any Mirada seems to be impossibly rare these days, let alone a CMX. I'd tried to find a listing for one (vanilla Mirada) in the Dallas Craigslist and then in eBay, and failed...

A search for a CMX found this article,

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?type=autos&f=/c/a/2009/02/15/MTR415O78- V.DTL

but none for sale that I could find....

And yes, I think all of us would like to have 4 or 5 pets in our garages.... I envy you and Andre, because you guys do.

tjc78

think would be kinda neat would be a '73-74 LTD or Grand Marquis 4-door hardtop.

Yeah I like most of the full size Fords of the era. Every once in a while a nice Marquis like your picture shows up on Ebay. Here is a nice LTD 2 Door hardtop.

andre1969

Neither the Cordoba nor the Mirada were hot sellers, but the Cordoba was always the more popular of the two. They sold about 54K Cordobas in 1980, and I think around 30K Miradas. And from there it was downhill fast.

They were also not very well-built cars. While the engines and transmissions were bulletproof, the bodies and interiors were not, and I'm sure the carburetors, Lean Burn systems, and emissions controls were pretty cranky. So I imagine a lot of them got junked fairly early on. Still, I'll occasionally see nice examples at Carlisle. Usually not for sale in the car corral, though. With these cars, it seems like when people get ahold of a nice one, they hang onto it.

In contrast though, Chrysler pretty much got the M-body cars...Diplomat, Gran Fury, LeBaron/5th Ave, more or less right from the start. I'm sure they had the same issues with carburetors and such, but the bodies and interiors seemed much more rugged and durable. And even the Aspen/Volare, upon which all these cars are based, weren't too bad from 1978 onward.

I was looking through some production statistics one day, and strangely, the rarest car I ever owned was one that's somewhat nondescript...a 1989 Plymouth Gran Fury. Only something like 5300 built. I had previously thought my Catalina would be the rarest, but Pontiac built about 10,000 Catalina convertibles in 1967. And I think even DeSoto built around 12,000 Firedome hardtop coupes in 1957. The '76 LeMans wasn't a very popular car either, but they ran off 14,757 Grand LeMans coupes that year.

andre1969

One thing I've always wondered...could you still get roll-down rear windows on the Marquis coupes towards the end of the run? They had that hardtop look right up through the end in 1978, whereas I think the LTD went to a pillared look starting in '75. I know I've seen earlier Marquis 2-doors with roll-down rear windows, but many of them later on were stationary. Maybe in later years they started making roll-down rear windows an option? Or more likely, they just did away with them all together.

boomchek

There's a huge aftermarket for the tuner crowd with Civics and Accords. Does that count?

lemko

Of course, I'm sure you would have the ultimate prize - a 600 Pullman limo:

fintail

If I had a 600 I think I would prefer an earlier SWB car, the LWB ones are just a bit much, and I've never been a limo kind of guy. The one in the pic is some special popemobile model, different from the normal droptop. The Adenauer landaulet in front of it is interesting.

Nice tires, that's exactly the style I want for my fintail. MB offered those through MY 1964 and into 1965 I think.

The "ultimate prize" still has to be a K series car or maybe a gullwing.

Mr_Shiftright

I think Civics with certain engines--but a lot of that stuff is not body/trim/upholstery, but rather automotive jewelry or go-fast parts. I don't think you could restore a Civic or Accord with the aftermarket catalogs.

One reason you see so few...say...Studebakers from the 30s and 40s is because there are no restoration parts for them, consequently little interest in them, consequently, not worth much. (with a few rare exceptions).

I think the Buick GN and GNX has an aftermarket developing but all those Miradas or Omnis or 80s Cadillacs--those are all doomed to extinction for lack of aftermarket resources IMO. Once you save the 'survivors" and once you strip all the parts cars to keep the survivors going, that's it. It's all drying up.

tjc78

could you still get roll-down rear windows on the Marquis coupes towards the end of the run?

Not sure on that one, probably did away with it as a cost cutting measure. The Marks and Cougars/Thunderbirds of the era did without them so they probably figured no one would miss them on the lower volume coupes.

fintail

I remember the CMX because the parents of a grade school friend had one, and it was seen as a "special" car and was rarely driven. It was white with t-tops.

I only have one normal car and one pet...but I can imagine more...just gotta win that lottery I never buy tickets for :shades:

boomchek

Trade one beater for another :sick:

Cheap if you have the space

I wonder if it's worth fixing it as parts would make it cost as much as a decent used one

fintail

Figures a Biturbo guy would be shopping for something like a Silver Shadow.

I like the 4th pic on the E32 ad.

The wrecked E66 is comical...you can get nice early ones like that in the low 20s no problem now. You'll be at least to that level by the time you get that one fixed. Someone has a loan to pay off I bet.

steine13

"I wonder if it's worth fixing..."

Well, no.

Which is why it is on offer as a private sale from a guy who lives out in the sticks and has it sitting on a junker trailer.

It's six years old, going on seven... it's pretty much a parts car. Just not for body parts ;->
-Mathias

texases

You're condemned to hell, and you have to choose between the Biturbo and the Rolls/Bentley....hmmmmm

Mr_Shiftright

The exotic car all mashed up in that ad for the 2 BMW 735s is not a "Ferrari". It's a Lambo, owned by a member of the *very* exclusive organization composed of incompetent, rich drivers called "The Telephone Pole Hunters Club". Based primarily in L.A. and Florida, their work now extends throughout this big wide beautiful country of ours.

$10,000 for a Bentley? --maybe a beater Mark VI. At least the guy would be used to pain.

fintail

That seems like a pretty accurate description of the local Lambo owning group, too. Proof that money and competence can be an inverse relationship.

Mr_Shiftright

I always thought it ridiculous than anyone over 18 with a fat checkbook and zero experience can buy a 210 mph automobile and drive it away. You can't drive a motorcycle or a heavy truck without a special license and training.

fintail

Heck, a 16 year old with a fortunate daddy can give him that 210mph missile, and have even less experience. And if he messes up, his relations will probably allow him to get off lightly.

And an 85 year old who can't see 20 feet in front of him can go out and buy a 45 foot behemoth motorhome and drive it off with no special hassles. It's pretty insane. :lemon:

boomchek

lol agreed.

Yeah the 2 BMWs are a bit tempting if I had the garage space, especially sonce one is apprently running.

Still crazy how I remember I used to drool over these cars when I was 11, at my first auto show in Vancouver in 1989, and was wowed by their technolgoy then, and their sticker price. How time changes when they're just throwaway beaters now.

fintail

I think the same when I see beater old MB from the period, no surprise. Beater W140 and 210 aren't uncommon these days, and it amazes me how something I once would have been thrilled to simply ride in is now a heap beyond reasonable salvation.

The mint C140 I saw yesterday reminded me of Van. It was absolutely pristine, driven by an old Chinese guy, well under the speed limit, and erratically. I suspect that place will be a goldmine if 140s ever become desireable.

boomchek

I always liked the MB big body coupes. From the SECs of the 80s to the CLs of now, they all look very attractive to me.

Maybe from the coupe family the only one I didn't like that much was the old SLC. From what I understand it was an SL with a stretched wheelbase, added, back seats and a roof, but the styling never really appealed to me, especially the vents in the rear windows.

fintail

They are all hardtops too, that's worth something. The one I saw yesterday was a 98 or 99 I think, late wheels, CL500 badging, xenon lights. It was black, so a beast to maintain, but this one looked like it had maybe 1000 miles on it.

I do see some C215s looking ragged now too, with aftermarket wheels and pimped out junk added on. The ones to have are CL55/65...even slight future collectability there, especially in the V12s. I am really to the point now of preferring an AMG car to a normal one. There's no reason not to, now that prices are so close.

The SLC is really a disco-mobile to me, and yeah, it's a modified SL, not meant to be an S-class coupe. It's amusing as a period piece, but I would rather have an earlier or later big coupe.

lokki

68 Vette 427 Tri-Power -Worth the money?
http://dallas.craigslist.org/ndf/cto/1144129827.html

Andre - Rescue (Great?) Grandma's car from this College Student?
http://dallas.craigslist.org/dal/cto/1144135444.html

Is any Beetle, no matter how beautiful, worth $9K? There are so many better toys.
http://dallas.craigslist.org/dal/cto/1143501284.html

Four-doors just don't get no respect
http://dallas.craigslist.org/mdf/cto/1143145453.html

Which is it?
"it is one of the nicest all original 944's around"
front end is a one of a kind hand laid fiberglass grill
http://dallas.craigslist.org/mdf/cto/1142717212.html

What's a 2000 Lotus Esprit with 61,000 miles worth?
http://dallas.craigslist.org/dal/ctd/1142539170.html

Sleeping beauty awakened or just exhumed?
http://dallas.craigslist.org/ndf/cto/1142469579.html

LOOK! Under that SUV! :surprise:
http://dallas.craigslist.org/dal/ctd/1142385500.html
http://dallas.craigslist.org/dal/ctd/1142339200.html

Nice 61 T-Bird.... I want one
http://dallas.craigslist.org/ndf/cto/1141626387.html

I thought this would be worth more
http://dallas.craigslist.org/ndf/cto/1141587041.html

If only these were even vaguely reliable
http://dallas.craigslist.org/dal/cto/1141429825.html

Mr_Shiftright

the 65 E-Type (there is no such model as an "XKE") looks butchered beyond repair, or at least beyond worth of repairing---but....but....if he has the original engine and transmission and if....if....he cuts the price in half....then it might be worth tackling. To restore an E-Type is a long, hard....very hard....road. One of the most difficult of all postwar cars to restore.

2000 Lotus Esprit--- you might get $25K for it if you can find anyone crazy enough to buy it.

68 Corvette 427 -- price is market correct retail for a #3 car in "good" condition.

57 Chevy 4DHT -- ditto, price is market correct retail for a clean driver.

qbrozen

Here is the Lotus on Ebay.

BTW, the RX7 is reliable ... in the right hands. Unfortunately, there is no telling how it was treated up till now, making it a huge gamble.

Mr_Shiftright

Yeah the Lotus is priced a bit high. He might not even reach $25,000.

lemmer

Peter Egan makes it sound like fun. Just sit down in your garage with a Guiness in one hand and a wrench in the other, right?

boomchek

Since the RX-7 is stock,it probably has a better chance of lasting longer than a modified version that we see tons of.

210delray

Only after several bottles are consumed! (And it's not an E-Type you're working on.)

Mr_Shiftright

I think Peter met his match with his E-Type.

The Lotus would be fun as long as it doesn't burn your garage down. It's the only car club I know of that lists a "fire marshal" on the roster (no, I'm not kidding).

fintail

Someone's lookin for trouble

lokki

Pretty

But pretty reasonable or pretty dangerous?

http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/cto/1107039995.html

Mr_Shiftright

Could be a good deal depending on that 68 Porsche 911L. Actually more like 1600 made, but oh well. Yeah, it's "rare" but on in terms of production, not because it's particuarly different from any other 65-68 Porsche except in trim items. L just stands for "late model" and is considered a tuned-down version of the European 911S.

Still, very early Porsche 911s are desirable, presuming you can tolerate their rather primitive (as in basic) nature. This is a driver's car, with lots of noise, no ventilation.

fintail

I'd be most worried about its location - no mention of rust, and that's not exactly the paradise for rust-free 60s cars.

Mr_Shiftright

A 911E would be a much better choice.

gsemike

GTO needs paint

Daewood needs wash

Beetle needs nose

This guy has been trying to sell this forever

This Vette show really well in the pics

Price for this Trans Am seems reasonable

Chevelle has a long way to go

This Vette looks good too

Not what you see everyday

The man is proud of his battery

Older M3

fintail

That is cheapish for a Burt Reynolds Firebird.

If I saw that Blazer everyday, I'd gouge my eyes out.

Something very telling on that Daewoo...the paint on the emergency flasher button is worn off. Looks like it's been used a few times. That car shows how those things were really cheapo...that one tried to be the luxo model, but look at those molded plastic third world door panels. Ugh.

Mr_Shiftright

'69 GTO -- try $9000 -- "fair" condition at BEST. He wants clean driver money for it.

67 Chevelle---try $4000 -- seller is dreaming. Car is very rough.

69 Grand Prix --- should sell at about $3,500. Not too far off the mark here.

2006 Beetle -- crusher

72 Vette Conv. 66K orig miles --- he might get close to his price.

'97 BMW M3 --- fair enough but hard to sell these old Ms when they have too many mods. No sale in any state with emissions testing.

lokki

+1 on that Blazer as OMG ugly

Love that 1970 Vette, but I never liked the late 70's 'rubber tail' Vettes much... For its time, the plastic bumper cover was a clever solution.... much better looking than most 5mph bumpers from those days..... but still.. not my cup of vette.

The engines in those are sort of an annoyance too, I suspect with such low HP numbers. Probably better to dump the whole thing and put in a earlier or later high compression engine?

On the M3.... when I see cars like this one, I feel bad for them... pampered cars that fall into the hands of someone too young -with all the wrong priorities. The maintenance money went into the stereo system... and expensive fog lights got amateur wiring.

It makes you feel bad for the car -

"garaged for the life of the car up until about 8 months ago "
probably sums it up. If not,
"shift surround” either needs to be replaced, ($50.00), because I wanted to change to real carbon fiber but decided not to. When removing the wood trim, it ripped part of the center console "

tells the tale.

Such an elegant car, and now 'customized' - sort of like dressing up Coco Channel in a yellow polka-dot mini skirt and red sneakers