Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

tjc78

I wonder how much those old Ford 4-speed automatics cost to rebuild?

They gotta readily available at any junk yard. Actually, I would be willing to bet money that only the OD is bad on this car. On those older 5.0s there is a grommet that holds the upshift cable. It breaks all the time and if you drive the car like that you damage the OD. This happened to me on my first car, an 89 Grand Marquis. Same color as the 300 crown vic.... Its all I can do not to go look at that car. For $300 what do you want?

texases

BIG bucks

andre1969

Yeah, when he mentioned the tranny slipping around 35 mph, it made me think of a problem with the overdrive, or maybe the lockup on the torque converter?

If it's the overdrive on that Grand Marquis, could you get away with just driving it in 3rd gear? I guess that would hurt your highway fuel economy a bit, but I wonder if there would be other issues?

tjc78

could you get away with just driving it in 3rd gear?

I did on mine, ran it for at least 5000 miles before I traded it. I had over 100K and the engine was still perfect. Heck the service manager bought it, fixed the tranny and ran it up over 250K!

xwesx

That's fantastic. I kinda think it holds more value (to the right person) as a package. Perhaps you could sign a bill of sale designating the sale "as is" and specifying that use of the catamaran is at the owner's own risk?

texases

Yes, we'd have to have lot's of that 'as is, where is, don't call if you sink!' kind of language...

Mr_Shiftright

72 Vette---show car money for a clean driver with aftermarket parts in a 2009 market?

I don't think so, pard. If you got offered $22-25K, I'd sure take it.

explorerx4

anyone notice? "426 max wedge".

Mr_Shiftright

He's dreaming. It's a POLARA for goodness sake! And it doesn't have the right transmission. Supposed to be a 3-speed.

Compare and Contrast to:

THIS ONE

qbrozen

Looks nice

xwesx

It really does! I have not seen a Corolla wagon of that era in that nice of condition in over ten years. Too bad it is not an AWD wagon, but that is its only drawback.

explorerx4

a couple of things, there was some discussion a few days ago about a 426 that was not a 'hemi', so they do exist.
i posted that white polara sometime previously. it's in CT and i linked to it when it was on a more local site.

andre1969

Yeah, I'm sure a 426 wedge, while not a Hemi, is still worth a lot more than a 440. And more period-correct, as well. The 426 Wedge was built from 1963-65. The 440 didn't come out until 1966. As for horsepower, the 426 Wedge ranged from around 365, which I'm guessing was the more mundane 4-bbl carb, on up to 425 hp, which I think had dual quads and aluminum pistons. FWIW, 425 hp is what the rebirth of the Hemi, the 426, was rated at. It was supposedly under-rated, though, so a 425 hp 426 Hemi was still probably more powerful than a 425 hp 426 Wedge.

badcowboy

are you allowed to offer something for sale cause i got a oldtruck cab that I dont want but someone does and i dont want to see it go to scrap but that is its des.

Mr_Shiftright

No classifieds aren't allowed here. Maybe you could post it on the craigslist in your area.

texases

Everything you wanted to know about 'Max Wedge' engines:
Other good Mopar info, too

tjc78

After seeing a really nice of these the other day I went looking on Ebay. I am normally a Lincoln guy, but lately there is something about these later Fleetwood Brougham's that I really like. Here is one that some guy paid 36K new for and never drove it. Now he is selling it. :confuse: Great car, but he will never get close to what he paid. I don't think it will go for over 15K, but maybe I am wrong.

24 Mile 91 Fleetwood

gsemike

Definately a weird story with that one. It looks terrific by why store a car like that. It's funny how he thinks a head of state would be dying for it.

andre1969

Wow, that is a gorgeous car! I wouldn't mind having one of those with the 350 V-8. Even that older TBI unit was fairly gutsy. It only had 185 hp, but something like 300 ft-lb of torque. Probably the first big RWD Caddy to make it from 0-60 in under 10 seconds (okay, so barely, I think MT or C&D tested one and got 9.9 seconds).

I have a feeling the 5.7 Brougham was faster than the old '77-79 models with the 425. That engine would've had more hp and torque, but was held back by a 3-speed automatic and loafy rear-end. 2.28:1 IIRC, whereas the 1991 models used a 3.08:1 I think.

Only thing is, I'm not gonna pay top dollar for some pristine 24 mile example, because the first thing I'm going to want to do is DRIVE the car! I think I'd be afraid of this car!

Just out of curiosity though, I'm going to watch this auction, and see how high it goes.

fintail

It has to be the best one left. I could see the President of New Jersey or the Sultan of Lawn Guyland lusting after it :shades:

jlflemmons

5.7L 185HP? Is that the Olds 350? They still had it around in '91 but with limited applicaton. Very good motor if thats what it is.

I wonder why the guy makes no mention of changing the oil? Even if it hasn't been driven, not sure about having 18yo old sitting in the pan. I dunno, never thought about it, but would that be okay?

andre1969

No, that's a Chevy 350. I think the 350 went from a 4-bbl carb to TBI around 1986 or so, with hp jumping from 170 to 185. It was mainly used in pickup trucks and police cars, but then around 1989 Cadillac started offering it on the commercial chassis version of the Brougham, for builders of limousines, hearses, etc. Then around 1991 they started offering it as an option for all Broughams. In 1992 it became an option for the Caprice and Roadmaster. It was dropped for 1994, in favor of the 260 hp LT-1 350.

What were they using Olds 350's for in 1991? I was under the impression that the Olds 350's last year was 1980 in gasoline form, and 1985 as a Diesel.

Are you sure it's not the 307 you're thinking of? It was used in the Brougham, as well as the B-body wagons, up through 1990. I always thought it was interesting that they used a 305 in the Caprice sedan, but a 307 in the wagons. The 307 had less peak hp (140 versus 170) than the 305, but I think a little more torque, and at a lower rpm, so it was probably a little better suited for heavier cars.

Mr_Shiftright

I'm completely amazed at the bids actually. I would have guessed half that.

The problem with this car of course is what do you do with it? I suppose there is 10 seconds of novelty about a 1991 Cadillac with so few miles, but really, it's just a 1991 Cadillac and is in no way rare or desirable. It might as well be ANYTHING with 24 miles on it----a Monte Carlo, a Taurus----doesn't matter, because it's the weird story that counts.

And if you drive it, you lose the weirdness, and if you "show" it, your ten seconds of fame goes away pretty quickly as you sit all day on that lawn chair.

Well, to each his own. Me, I'd buy one like this for $7500 and put it into livery as a "something different" radio cab. Get some use out of it. Cheaper than a new Caddy after all.

andre1969

Another problem with that '91 Caddy is that it's still too new to get into many car shows, since a great deal of them require the car to be at least 25 years old. It would be able to go in something like the GM Nationals at Carlisle, and would look nice sitting alongside Lemko's '89 Brougham, and I'm sure it would go fine for Cadillac/LaSalle club type events. But, for Hershey, that show I always hit in Macungie PA, and another show in Rockville MD that I always try to make, it has to be at least 25 years old. But, 2016 isn't THAT far away.

Around these parts at least, those things are getting kinda rare. They really didn't make that many in the later years, maybe 25-30,000. And as they became used cars, they started to fall into the hands of wanna-be thugs and pimps and other hood-rats who ran them into the ground.

There's one of them that still lives about 1/4 mile from me...the owners of a local plant nursery bought a 1990-93 model when it was new, but nowadays I see their late teen/early 20's daughter zipping around in it, so I guess it won't be long for the world. It used to be in pretty nice shape, but it's starting to show its age.

So they're still out there, but trying to find a nice one, especially one with the 350, probably isn't an easy task.

Just out of curiosity, if I bought something like that, and say put 500 miles per year on it, would that kill its "low mileage" value very much?

texases

Isn't a 26 mile car different than a 2026 mile car as far as its 'curiosity factor' value? Just getting it to a show would hurt the value, unless you trailer it, which would be very odd for such a non-valuable car. I also wonder about his 'start it every six months with new gas' approach, wouldn't than get a fair amount of water in the oil?

Hope he finds an interested dictator... :P

fintail

Everything is wrong. Clunk it.

I can't even begin to list the problems I see.

boomchek

Our old family wagon that I learend to drive on was an 89 Caprice Classic wagon with the 307 motor. I always wondered too why they put the weaker engine in a wagon, since wagons generally are designed to haul more and should have more powerful motors.

Someone once told us it's an Olds V8. My dad wasn't sure what he meant by that, wheather the factory screwed up and put a wrong motor in it, or whether the car was post accident with a different engine (we bought it when it was 2 years old).

Here's my dad with my sister when she was a baby beside the car. It had the rear facing 3rd row seats too, and the dual action tailgate (open sideways or flip down)which broke right away. :lemon:

See more Car Pictures at CarSpace.com

boomchek

OMG! Horrible horrible mods. :sick: :lemon:

That red steering wheel slip on half cover looks awful! And those red walmart floormats too!! And the wheels!

I like chrome wheels, but when you put some on a car, make it look tasteful at least. These don't enhance the looks of the car at all.

andre1969

I like those bbs style hubcaps on that wagon. Years ago, I looked at a 2-tone green 1985 Caprice coupe that had those same hubcaps, and thought it was pretty sharp looking overall.

As for the 307, for some reason, GM started putting it in the Parisienne Safari and Caprice wagons for 1986. That was also the year they started putting it in the Cadillac Brougham, where it replaced the little 4.1 aluminum V-8.

Maybe there was some kind of economy of scale, where they had to build so many 307's per year to make it worthwhile to keep them around, so they started putting them in other cars? The 1985 Delta, LeSabre, Toronado, and Riviera all relied heavily on the 307, while the 1986 models were downsized and V-6 only.

Now that I think about it, it was 1986 that they started offering the 307 in the Regal, too. For 1985, the Regal was V-6 all the way, unless you wanted a Diesel 350.

I wonder if the 307 would've benefited much from fuel injection in the way that the 305 did? It would be neat to see what modern technology could do to an Olds 350 or 403!

stickguy

to answer Andre's question, but it and drive it.

Assuming it goes fro about the current bid (13k?) it is about the price of a strippo Accent. So what are you risking?

Should be perfect for a guy like Lemko, that actually wants one of these to use on a (semi) regular basis.

So instead of buying a higher mile beat up one, at least get the one that looks brand new!

Of course, budget to change every belt, hoe and fluid I suppose..

fintail

There's a lot wrong with that car. The front bumper isn't correct, I don't think the headlights are correct, the seats and upholstery are wrong, the steering wheel hub is just bizarre and I suspect the entire wheel is incorrect, the wood on the dash seems to be two different colors, the sheetmetal in the engine bay is a different color than the car, the engine itself doesn't seem to be sitting level - and then we get to the wheelarch trim, the craptacular wheels (18" monoblocks look so much better), the fake side badging, spoiler, and the bogus performance claim. The seller should be locked up. I suspect it's a couple of cars merged into one - never a good thing.

boomchek

Those hubcaps were a pain to clean!

fintail

Your dad didn't like the angular 80s LTD because it looked old, but he bought the boxy Caprice? :P

Of course, he probably made the better choice.

jlflemmons

Yep, I was thinking of the 307. Found an interesting comment on Wiki re; the 307:
Like most Oldsmobile engines, this is widely regarded as a durable workhorse engine, hard to kill without applying undue abuse. Reasonable uses and reliable maintenance such as consistent oil changes and basic tune-ups may be expected to give a long engine life. It is strongly advised to check – and possibly replace – the timing chain at about 65,000 miles. Engine lifetimes, given proper upkeep, may be expected to far exceed 200,000 miles.

lemko

Holy smoke! That sounds like the same problem I had with my 1989 Mercury Grand Marquis LS when it lost it's transmission at 78K miles. I think I recall my mechanic describing it as such, but that was 11 years ago. The repair was $1,070 back then which sounds downright cheap compared to the cost to repair today's transmissions.

lemko

Forget them! The Premier of Philly is lusting after it more than anybody!!! Yeah, baby, yeah!!!! :shades:

lemko

Where was it back in March when I instead bought that Grand Marquis?

boomchek

This one had the new flush headlamps and overall it did look better than the old LTDs. Ultimately it was mom's choice anyways.

gsemike

Oh God, what did he do?

Title does not match vin. Good

Good beater? I think his claim on the potential mileage is accurate

Depreciation V8 and AWD, this had a sticker for well over 50

Fit for a Monarch

stickguy

Same dude that has the Buick with a bad title.

Wonder if the mercury runs like a chimp instead of an ape (from teh Buick ad).

What the heck, get the Monarch cheap and make a unique rat rod out of it! Not like yo uare ever going to see another one coming at you.

fintail

Ah yeah good point about the lights. I remember when cars in NA made the transition to flush lights....it made older cars look dated fast. I remember I was kind of miffed that my mother bought an 85 Tempo, when the next year's model had smoother front and rear lights. But she didn't care about that, she was going to run it into the ground anyway. Car was in the family for almost 15 years and 190K miles.

Our first flush light car, a Taurus of the same era, seemed like a spaceship in comparison.

boomchek

when a Hummer just won't cut it

I hate to think what's wrong with it and what it needs

Ford Andre

Old school

That spolier is ill fitting

Can I take it for a test drive before I buy it?

For Fintail

For Shifty

fintail

LOL at "Title does not match vin. Can help solve that if necessary."....aaah New York.

Lexus looks like a harmless beater, yeah.

The Caddy probably stickered at 60ish. It's pretty miled up though.

The Monarch...when I was in high school, one of my teachers drove one (an old car by then)...she called it her "little butterfly" and it must have had some issues as she claimed 15mpg was about all it could do.

gsemike

I didn't notice the Buick in the background of the shot of the Monarch. That dude's neighbors must love him

boomchek

Assuming it goes fro about the current bid (13k?) it is about the price of a strippo Accent. So what are you risking?

Should be perfect for a guy like Lemko, that actually wants one of these to use on a (semi) regular basis.

So instead of buying a higher mile beat up one, at least get the one that looks brand new!

I agree. I'd get that 24 mile caddy and actually use it as a daily driver during warm seasons.

Realistically maybe you'd rack up 20000 miles in 10 years, so in 2019, it would be a 28 year old car with 20k miles. It would still be an oddity.

fintail

That Unimog is cool!

When I see those Japanese imports, I have to be leery. It can't be easy to prove history.

The poor C126 needs to be put out of its misery. 24 years was a good run.

190SL should only cost twice its value to reassemble.

Fintail looks good from what I can see, but I want concrete proof of that mileage. 5 digit odometers can be tricky. What he thinks it could be worth is a joke, his price is decent if the car has no big needs, though.

boomchek

I have a feeling the STS is a rebuilt. The Monarch seems like a half decent ride for under a grand if that's what he wants for it.

The Lexus LS seems like a good buy too depending on the work it needs done.

Corvette looks like a kit car.

lokki

That Jag is a perfect example of why I'm kind of afraid to get the hobby car bug.
$100K spent so far and nothing done that you can point to except maybe the engine.
I have no idea what it'd cost to paint it, but after spending $100K so far, you're not going to take it to Earl Schieb....

Then, after it's been painted, how many hours of labor at $100 per hour to reassemble it, assuming that all the parts have already been purchased in that $100K?

So somebody is going to walk in for $35K and spend another $35K (?) to complete it?

I can't imagine that that car is going to be worth $75K when it's done, but maybe I'm wrong.....

Mr_Shiftright

The man is hopelessly buried. He'd be lucky to even get these numbers:

1. Cost so far $100K

2. Cost to completion (presuming chassis and powertrain are done .....maybe $50K

3. Value at time of sale....about $75,000 tops tops tops. More like $60K in this market.

The old story I fear: cost of restoration / 2 = selling price

Anyway, who wants a 150 coupe---you'll fry to death in there. Massive heat transfers from engine and transmission (but great in winter because the heater sucks---presuming it STARTS in winter, of course).

Pretty car, fun to drive on a cool autumn day, lots of power...heavy steering---hope it has the disk brakes and not the drums....

ACTUALLY, as a 1957 it could be vintage-raced in Europe---which means the restoration should be stopped and the car built for the track. Now THAT makes sense!

tjc78

That sounds like the same problem I had with my 1989 Mercury Grand Marquis LS

All the 5.0 Full size fords do it eventually. My 89 Town Car did it too. However, second time around I knew not to drive the car and saved the tranny.

What color was your 89 GM, mine was burgundy with the grey velour.