Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

Mr_Shiftright

If the steering rack is blown you're already in the hole unless you do the job yourself. But yeah, you have to see it and drive it. There's never "just one thing" wrong with a Milano however. And if it's an automatic, you are doomed, completely doomed. Figure 30,000 miles per rebuild on those.

jaserb

ABS tells me it's probably a platinum. The platinum transaxle had LSD and a lower axle ratio. It'll be used as a parts car for someone's Verde, which is the only Milano worth anything at all.

-Jason

ghulet

Mr_Shiftright

I'd buy a Verde but not one that needed much work. Part of the problem is getting anybody to work on them anymore, and I'm done with pulling out transaxles on my back....really done.

jrosasmc

I know the Alfa Spider transmissions are notorious for the 1-2 synchro grind, but if they do fail are they rebuildable in any way?

Mr_Shiftright

Sure you can rebuild an Alfa standard trans, no problem...of course, the synchros will be bad again in a year, but oh well. Some people know how to install the Porsche synchros, and that cures the problem.

jaserb

The only real "fix" I've heard of is to have the gears lightened. Tain't cheap. Or you can do the synchros, then shift nice and easy and double clutch downshifts to save wear and tear. Of course, that technique also works to live with bad synchros, so you might as well just get used to it.

-Jason

ghulet

Was it Terry or Shiftright that called this kind of thing 'excercising your Fifth Amendment rights'?

http://chicago.craigslist.org/car/118292983.html

then the seller got lots of grief, so he posted something stating that 'Sunbirds are RARE' (I'm not kidding, check craigslist's Chicago ads).

jlawrence01

That reminds me of the NASTY note that I got from a guy recently when I told him that it was ridiculous to put a $4k+ engine in an OLD Escort!!

Some people have true delusions of grandeur ...

lemmer

It is always funny to advertise your junker as "WILL NOT LAST."

Maybe they do it for legal reasons, in case it craps out the transmission on the way home.

andre1969

I might give the dude $1000 for that Sunbird, depending on how good it looks in person. If it has the 3.1 V-6, they actually weren't bad for the time for performance at that price point. Probably about on par with a Duster with the Mistu 3.0 or the elusive V-6 Tempo. They were a lot of bang for the buck. Probably a lot of bang too when the head gasket went out on them! I knew two people who blew head gaskets on 2.8's, and have heard it's a common problem. I'm guessing the 3.1 wasn't much different? I think the engine was crude enough though, that a blown head gasket wouldn't destroy it like they often do these days.

qbrozen

i've also read of lightening the synchros. Something about drilling holes in it. yikes!

i often double-clutch my Spider from first to 2nd. But, if its warmed up properly, you take it easy, and hit the right RPMs, it will work smoothly without double-clutching. I've often told people "i'm not teaching you to drive stick on my Alfa because it won't help you drive a stick in any other car!"

shifty - its a 5-speed. Believe me, if it was an auto, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

Platinum vs. Verde - am i remembering incorrectly? I thought the Platinum came with the 3 liter?? The Silver and Gold were the 2.5? Or am I making all that up?

andre1969

this 1994 Caprice police car looks tempting for $1700. And it's right around the corner from me. But upon further reading, it's not the LT-1 package, but something called an L-99, which I think is just the basic 4.3 V-8. Basically a pursuit-class car and not an interceptor. I wonder if this is one of those cars that my county got back in the day, along with those 3.1 Luminas and Grand Prixes, that the crooks could outrun all day long?

lemmer

It says it is really fast, but I am not convinced. It does look kind of cool.

Mr_Shiftright

I think you're right...the platinum and the verde are 3.0 liters. Later on they made the V-6 with twin cams (4 cams actually) for the 164.

jrosasmc

Those Alfa V-6s can run for high mileages without a rebuild or valve job, I presume.

Mr_Shiftright

Not with me behind the wheel :P

jaserb

Only the Verde has the 3.0, as it was the hot rod of the bunch. The Silver, Gold, and Platinum were all 2.5s with increasing levels of "stuff".

-Jason

steine13

Just buy it.

Thanks to all you enablers. You know who you are.

I did. We had a little friendly chat, and I'll wait for dry, salt-free roads to pick it up, but I ponied up $650 today and acquired this little gem. I'll have to pay sales tax and $15 for a title, but my registration & plate are still good from last year.

I'll have it inspected for safety -- don't want ball joints or tie rods to come off, see -- and then drive it for awhile and see what it really needs. If it isn't as amusing as it ought to be, I'll throw it on ebay before the tags expire in July.

So far so good.
On the other hand, I haven't -- technically -- told the missus about it yet. Oh well, she'll find out soon enough.

-Mathias

lemmer

Good deal.

How'd you convince him that $700 was just way too many beans for a decent running Civic?

british_rover

Grr that Civic SI is just the car I want for a beater rally/rallycross car. If you do decide to dump it in July let me know if you are somewhat close I might pick it up for an extensive project car.

lemmer

Survivor 240Z in period orange.

Does anyone need a Lincoln drag racer?

ghulet

Why in the world would you want to start out with a two-ton Lincoln if you wanted to create a drag racer? Seems like a waste, from more than one perspective.

What do you do with this?:

http://chicago.craigslist.org/car/118602372.html

andre1969

I kinda like that Lincoln drag racer. I think sometimes the irony of something that big that can still move is cool. Like back around 1988-89 when Buick experimented with putting a turbo in the big RWD Estate wagon. The end result was a family truckster that would dust just about anything in 0-60...just don't take it through the slalom! Too bad it never got beyond the test mule stage.

Shame about that '83 Benz hardtop. I LOVE that style, but these forums have put enough fear into my mind about the maintenance on one. :surprise:

andre1969

what would be the going price for something like this? I kinda like it, although it looks a bit naked without the little fins on the rump!

fintail

That W126 coupe is a parts car unless you LOVE the car and can do an engine swap by yourself with a good engine you got for almost nothing. Those cars can and do rust, and a few rust spots are likely hiding worse.

That W108 280SE looks pretty decent, if it has no rust. Those things can rust away too, especially around the lights, in the lower quarters, and floors/trunk. If it's rust-free I might try to knock down the price a little for the work it needs, but anyway it could be a good driver with little harm done. That's the successor to my fintail, those are good reliable cars if maintained, and they drive pretty well for their time.

Mr_Shiftright

380SEC -- wrecking yard. Way too expensive to open up that engine. Rebuild will be $12,000--$16,000, car is worth maybe $5,000 in good running condition.

Just go buy a nice one.

british_rover

I have kind of wanted to build a car like that but make it more of a sports/pro tourer not just a straight line car. My idea was to take a Ford Thunderbird of about the same era and put in a Mustang Cobra drivetrain, Supercharged 5.4 liter V8, 6speed tranny and IRS.

fintail

These seemed like sturdy cars (for the day) and look at that interior

Mr_Shiftright

horrifying inside and out IMO. As old comedian W.C. Fields might have said "she's a plumber's idea of Cleopatra".

lilengineerboy

The 240z is on my short list of cars I would like to restore. That one doesn't need it. When Nissan did the factory restorations of 240s a couple of years ago, I think they were running between 20 and 25k. I'm interested to see how much that one goes for in the end.
The 240sx, on the other hand, is on the short list of cars I would like to resto-mod (although its a little young to warrant restoration, even if it is 15 years old). Take the truck motor in there and boost it, or use it for a boat anchor and get an SR20DET.

andre1969

actually, I think it's pretty tasteful as far as interiors go. I like the way the dash has a bit of a driver's orientation with the shape of the gauges and such. And it's nice to have a dash with a round speedo instead of a horizontal job where the middle numbers are all scrunched together. And REAL gauges!

Nice color combo too, with the Nightwatch exterior and dark blue velour interior. I think these interiors look classy in velour, but leather in the wrong color looks a bit too bordello. I'd change the wheels, too. Chrysler had some good looking sport wheels for their RWD cars back then. Usually you saw them on Miradas and Cordobas, but they're a direct swap to the NYer and anything else RWD on the 4.5" bolt pattern.

And they are heavy, solid cars. From the specs I've seen, the '83-89 NYer/5th Ave weighed around 3750 lb. For comparison, the big 79-81 NYers weren't much more, at 3850. Routine handling isn't so hot, because they were set up to feel like a big luxury car. For some reason though, emergency handling on them was, according to CR when they tested one, very good. These cars did have a wide track though, and usually came with fairly large tires and rims, as domestic cars go. 7" rims, in an era when many cars this size often ran on 5.5-6" rims.

Mr_Shiftright

I'm sorry Andre, I do not wish to pound on your beloved by any means, but the interior looks like a bordello to me and the design is sheer chaos to my eyes. I think the fact that no automaker has ever harkened back to any of it sort of implies that this type of design did not really thrill the hearts of millions.

Since the topic is about restoring things, I don't find this type of car worthy of restoration for the reasons stated. But I'm not saying you're not allowed to LIKE it of course! :P

fintail

Maybe not something to restore per se...but maintain and save for a sunny day. For people who like such vehicles, of course.

ghulet

...those mid-large '80s Mopars did ride very nicely, of course, they handled as you would expect. I remember thinking they were fairly roomy at the time, considering their then-not-so-big size.

Mr_Shiftright

I think everyone who apologizes for them should drive one for a month and then report back (with honesty) :P

HEY!

Here's a good use for boring cars!====>

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1309610693318372088&q=Top+Gear

andre1969

Well, I drove an '89 Gran Fury ex police car for years, and I had no problems with the way it handled or performed or rode. I DID hate the way it ate those little lightweight starters on a regular basis, and the GM carb on it (these things switched from Carters to Rochesters for 1985) was cranky. And gas mileage was bad...around 10-13 around town with an appetite for premium, although it could break 20 on the highway (EPA estimate was a sad 13/15)

And my uncle had driven it a few times...he said he hated the way it rode. Of course, it's going to ride rougher than a civvy model though, and mine had extra heavy duty shocks on it.

I'd say my biggest complaint about it was the steering wheel location...while the sucker had great legroom, the steering wheel was a bit too close for comfort. The back seat was also thinly padded, although the front seat seemed to fit me fine. Excellent visibility, too, with its low beltline and tall roof. Even those thick looking C-pillars didn't hamper visibility much, although a 5th Ave would be much worse in this area, since the quarter windows in the doors were covered over, and the C-pillars were extended and blocked up.

And don't let Lemko get wind of this...he had an '85 5th Ave that he absolutely loved. Sold it to his brother, and it's still running strong. I'm sure he'd have a few nice things to say about it. :shades:

Mr_Shiftright

It's mostly the aesthetics that get to me...I'm sure it drives no better or worse than most 80s American stuff, so if you don't mind "floaty-boaty" and your passengers throwing up on curvy roads, hey, what's not to like? :P

But somehow, tufted velour upholstery doesn't say BORN TO DRIVE to me.......

lemmer

Pierre Cardin Javelin?

'72 LeMans

Cool looking Gremlin

Lots of room in this Kingswood.

Mr_Shiftright

Huh...the Javelin guy won't let someone bid unless you intend to buy the car---this kinda takes the fun out of eBay doesn't it? :P

stickguy

10K for an unrestored Javelin with needs? Now I have seen it all.

The Gremlin is neat. Reminds me of the '75(?) X I had in my freshman year of college, but that had a stick 9and probably wasn't in as good shape!)

I would like to try one out, just to see how much my memories match up with reality. I doubt I could take it now (seats, etc.). Boy, have we all gotten spoiled.

lemmer

Powderkeg Supra

bumpy

A Mark IV Supra TT traded for a Hummer? I hope it was an H1. Sweet Jesus...

Mr_Shiftright

700 HP? I don't think so. Half that sounds about right given the specs.

lilengineerboy

Actually, stock is about half that. An HKS turbo kit, the piggyback fuel system and some bigger injectors (and some tuning) and you are easily between 500 and 700. Supras can get close to 900 on pump gas. Amazingly robust blocks, those things have.
http://www.sportcompactcarweb.com/events/0403scc_supras/index.html 700 doesn't seem sooo out of reach.

Mr_Shiftright

Stock hp is 320 so lets say optimistically 35% increase with a hot turbo and say 10% for all the rest...that's about 450HP and that's about right I think for a stock motor. This presumes of course the car hasn't been beat to death.

the motors you are talking about are way beyond stock...maybe the outline of the block is there, sure, but that's not my idea of stock. You need tremendous strenthening once you approach 500 HP.

Given that this is a street car one remains highly skeptical of such claims.

lilengineerboy

I agree with the skepticism, and I think anytime a car is highly modified its valid, but the claims are not so outrageous. One of the things about turbo cars though is just turning up the boost gets pretty substantial gains (up to the point it blows the head gasket or burns a hole in a piston from getting fuel starved). Bigger turbos, fuel system and tuning I think would go a long way, but there is no evidence that car has been tuned.

Thats another thing, just because you buy the same parts that the magazine car has, doesn't mean you are making the same power unless the tuning is there.
I also think that these guys don't realize heavy modifications often lower the value of the car. This guy traded his car into a dealer, so that makes me think he just wanted to get out from under it, or it was never tuned properly.

These cars are the Japanese muscle cars of the 90s, more so that the 300zx, 3000gt and certainly the RX7. They were over engineered and leave a lot of room for improvement/modification. Exhaust, a downpipe, and boost controller will get you to 400 with stock turbos. It seems somewhere between 500 and 600 is the limit for the bottom end, with those 900hp guys having custom rods and pistons.

ghulet

I love ads like this (especially the 'worth more' part):

http://chicago.craigslist.org/car/119331657.html

Let's see about that. Always a winning formula: take an old car nobody cares about, put on an ugly paint job that cost, say, twice the retail value of the entire car, then slap on another thousand dollars worth of crap only you would like, then try to sell it for the sum of what you spent on it.

gsemike

Contours are actually great used cars. They were so unloved because of the supposedly Euro styling but they weren't bad cars and actually came with a pretty decent 24 valve V6. I see some nice examples of under 100k cars for like $1500 to 2k. You could definately do worse for a beater car. Now that monstrosity for $5500... that's another story.

Mr_Shiftright

Maybe sure but it's a "grenade motor"--like dragsters---they are rebuilt after every run!