Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

garv214

Wow, that just put hair on my chest just looking at the picture... boy my wife will be surprised when I come home tonight...

Mr_Shiftright

Once she drives it around, she'll learn to love it...TRUST me! :P

hpmctorque

Does it have automatic, leather and power everything?

explorerx4

Could be marketed as portable shade. And it has that nice leather seat under it.

texases

Closing in on a million miles. But with 3 engine rebuilds it is another example of how 250k is a good average to use on maximum engine life in a well cared-for car.

andre1969

Interesting beast, but what year is it, really? I'm not really up on my Dodge trucks, but did some googling. For 1955, I'm seeing pics of 1-piece windshield trucks, although some have a wraparound with a dogleg A-pillar (interesting, since they didn't do the dogleg on cars, which made them easier to enter/exit than their Ford/GM competition) and some without. So I'd guess it's actually a 1954 or earlier?

Mr_Shiftright

It's a 1956, says the advert.

Mr_Shiftright

3 engine rebuilds + one trans overhaul is probably about $40,000----still, if that's all the MAJOR work done, pretty good deal for 980,000 miles.

These are not "Volkswagen engines" -- they are built to a much higher standard with better metallurgy, strong castings, and precise clearances.

these are pretty simple cars--not much to go wrong--so when you couple that with Porsche build quality, it certainly seems possible. Probably tires, brakes and some suspension bushings now and then will take care of most everything you are likely to face, aside from vandalism, rust or accidents.

Oh, weatherstripping maybe, which perishes with age.

omarman

From the pics posted this Daytona Shelby VNT has few needs, mostly a sagging headliner and inop A/C as pointed out by seller. Could be fun to drive and even though *rare* that price looks steep.

Searching CL within a price range of $9K and $11K turns up a lot of other interesting choices. So is there a collector club fan base buying/selling Daytona Shelby survivors for money like that?

texases

If the ad's legit, that might be one of the best Daytonas in the world. But I still would pass, only a fan of that particular model would likely be very interested. And I wonder how the rest of the engine and drivetrain would hold up to all the turbo/head mods. I'd find something else for my ~$10k.

Mr_Shiftright

I saw one sell on eBay for $13,500---but it had 12,000 miles on it and was absolutely brand new out of the box perfect.

They are rare but mostly because they all blew up.

fintail

Locals:

I just like the pic

Must be worth more than this in scrap...if only patina was gold

Don't see these much anymore (seems familiar though)

Nor these

I got me a car, it's as big as a whale

Grandma's baby

Long extinct almost anywhere else

Hemi

Early hardtop

Sporty

Not many survived

Can't recall the last time I saw one (might not be around much longer)

Looks pretty decent

Very tempting

Mr_Shiftright

'85 Rolls Silver Spirit---perhaps the ad is true that this car represents the luxury that Cadillac BMW and Mercedes aspired to, but it doesn't represent the reliability that they aspired to, and mosty achieved. $15K is pricey for this car, try $12,000 and take it!

Hudson Hornet--probably worth that $350 in little bits and pieces, definitely. It'll be a joy getting it out of there, though.

'66 Chrysler convertible---I love this line: "Easy restoration; Needs minor body, bumper chrome, paint, front seat re-cover, and new top" -- yeah, about double what you're paying for the car, and you still haven't "restored" it. No bargain here. Just go buy a nice one for $15,000.

62 Chevy Impala---that's a good buy if it's fairly nice. There's some profit left in the car if it's as advertised. Flip it for $15K after a day's detailing.

Mr_Shiftright

50 Chrysler Newport --- also a good buy, as rough as it is. Spend a few days cleaning it up and flip it for $5,000. I'd buy it in a minute.

'65 Wildcat Wagon --kinda rare, only approx 8500 made in 2 seat and 3 seat config. About retail pricing but if it responded to detailing, a few new parts, and a paint buffer, it might bring $7500 to the right buyer. I'd hammer on the price, though.

'63 Dodge Wagon ---he's about $1000 to $1500 too high. The Buick wagon is a better buy, even at the higher price. This is an ugly thing and nobody wants them.

69 Benz 250 --don't know where he got his book values from, but this is a $1500 car all day long.

87 Mercedes 300E -- fair enough at $3000.

texases

Let's see, do I buy the old Benz for $3500, or the nearly 20-year-younger one for $3,000...hmmmmmm...easy choice even it the old one is $1,500, to me.

Mr_Shiftright

RE: '69 MB 250---Especially with a Weber conversion kit--I bet the car is real finicky to drive, despite what the owner claims, nor do I entirely buy his gas mileage claims. The more I read the ad, the more I think this car is a rat.

fintail

My fintail, a slightly different animal than that 250, averages maybe 15-17 in town, 20-22 on the highway. FI probably help, though. My car is probably in not much better condition than that one, but I guess it is more desirable.

I love the color of that 300E, a 126 like that would be very pretty.

Mr_Shiftright

Weber carbs are not good everyday carbs---you can set them up for street, or WOT, but not both. I never much saw the wisdom of trading a few HP for a drop in tractability and fuel economy on a daily driver.

stkntraffic

There was a guy in my neighborhood a few years ago trying to sell a Roller of that vintage (think it was an '86). Had a lot less miles, somewhere around 60K, but he wanted $19 or $20. I looked at it but was worried about the cost of repairs. Don't know if he ever sold it. Sounds like it was probably overpriced.

Mr_Shiftright

repair costs on those 80s models are bone-crushing--staggering, really. No matter how cheaply you buy one, you'll lose in the end.

Mr_Shiftright

In today's "Are You Kidding Me" Classic Car Lot, we have:

You Mean It's Not A Woody?

stickguy

That wagon looks like it could be kind of neat. If you invested 75K in it that you never wanted to see again.

as a resto rod, that would be cool. A complete money pit, but get a mustang drivetrain, modern suspension/brakes, etc. and it could even be a usable piece.

hpmctorque

What you'd get for your $75,000 is exclusivity, because a well equipped (~$30,000?) '13 Ford Fusion or Escape would be even more "usable." Would the additional $45,000 be worth it for a one-of-a-kind resto rod. Not to me, for sure. But to one other person in the world, maybe. Maybe, because chances are that tired beater wagon will never be restored.

A better way to go, if you want a resto rod, is to buy one that someone has thrown $75,000 at for, say, $30,000. Heck, I might be tempted to spend that amount for a quality restoration over a more practical '13 Anonomous.

Of course, I'm just throwing numbers around to make a point, and have little idea of whether those numbers are realistic. Reality check, someone?

andre1969

Just out of curiosity, what would the nicest '78 Eldorado Biarritz be worth? The reason I ask is that Lemko and I saw a ratted out one at Carlisle on Saturday. I don't think there was a rust-free body panel on it, and the interior was pretty trashy. The only way I even knew it was a Biarritz is because there was one piece of trim left on it, the triangular piece near the opera window.

Surprisingly, the owner started it up and it sounded really nice. Much nicer than the condition would lead you to suspect. And he said it only had about 45,000 miles on it.

This car was in such sad shape that you couldn't give it to me. And yet, he wanted $3500 for it! I did a quick look on eBay, and it looks like for under $10K, you could get one of these in really nice condition.

Mr_Shiftright

Yeah, $10K for a clean driver is the going rate; perhaps, on the right day in an alternate universe that distributes free money, you could get $17,500 for a show car, and for the best one in the world, fresh out of the box with 0 miles, maybe $21,000.

Historical values, over the last 4 years, have actually gone down a bit.

lemko

If you got one for free, it would be too much. One would have to pay me a substantial sum to take it off their hands.

lemko

I heard a huge hidden marijuana field caught fire somewhere near Lake Elsinore, California. Must've been around the time this dude was placing his Craigslist ad.

Mr_Shiftright

here's one with a "firm price"...You'd have to have guts to plunk down $25K, even on a potentially valuable car like this. The road to total restoration is going to be long and hard.

http://losangeles.craigslist.org/wst/cto/3885036994.html

Also, there's been a downward trend in ultra-pricey station wagons--it's like people have looked around and said "Gee, for an $80K investment I could have bought some REALLY nice cars".

Even "woodies" have gone a bit flat.

texases

"here's one with a "firm price"...You'd have to have guts be nuts to plunk down $25K"

There, I fixed it.

fintail

Some interesting project cars here

PDF of inventory list(auction site down)

Mr_Shiftright

Cars like that are in some ways the worst possible scenario.

If you buy a 1958 car with 10 miles on it, you will undoubtedly pay a premium price for it.

Then what do you do? Trailer it from show to show under an inflatable bubble and sit in your lawn chair and say "yep, only 10 miles" over and over and over and over....

Or,

you can drive it, thereby devaluing the very thing you paid for--the ultra low miles.

hpmctorque

When I owned my Z, and belonged to the Z-Car Club, I met several people who had low mileage examples, and hardly ever drove them, so they'd remain low mileage. None of them were worth more than $20,000 (that's what the president of our chapter got for one of his two 240s), but most were worth less. I understood their reasoning, since they were really passionate about their hobby, but I would never buy a car that I didn't intend to drive.

Now, if, for sake of argument, I happened to win a rare Bugatti, say, at a lottery, then I'd probably drive it carefully one time. The chance of that happening are as close to zero as one can imagine, but I cite it to illustrate that I want to drive whatever I own without thinking about the mileage consequences.

qbrozen

But, in my view, that's no different than buying a new car. You pay a premium for that, too. But you drive the new car. In a very slightly similar way, I did the same thing with my current '98 Volvo. I bought it and paid a "premium" strictly for the fact it only had 37k miles... but so I COULD drive the hell out of it.

The one I fail to understand is paying a premium for an all-original, untouched, survivor car. Give me the restored and usable one, please!

fintail

That hoard of cars seems to be even more problematic - they don't appear to be carefully stored. Low mileage is nice, but if the interior is rotten, engine seized, chrome damaged etc, the "brand new" mystique fades away. Maybe they will clean up better than they look, too bad they weren't at least covered in a cleaner room for so many years.

Mr_Shiftright

Hoarders are rarely good stewards.

Mr_Shiftright

would be a great tutorial on "How Not To Sell a Car"

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/cto/3890378033.html

stickguy

I wouldn't care if it was a Ferrari for $500. I still wouldn't go into that neighborhood to buy it!

with no paperwork, could you even sell it to a scrapper?

Mr_Shiftright

Not to a scrap yard, but I think on a Bill of Sale you can sell it as a parts car. Good luck registering it though (and why would you?).

au1994

and if you decide to drive it every gasket, grommet, seal, brake line, hose, etc etc ad nauseum is going to have to be replaced. Cha-ching!

lemko

Yeah, I recall a certain ultra-low mileage 1957 Plymouth Belvedere in Tulsa, Oklahoma.

qbrozen

LOL

"Someone" broke a screwdriver off in the keyhole. Oh, and I have no keys for it. OH, right! I think I shrewdly figured out who "someone" is. Haha.

Mr_Shiftright

why? why?

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/cto/3889640626.html

andre1969

I wonder how much they'd take for it, without those ridiculous rims? I kinda like it otherwise. You don't see the coupe very often.

IIRC, Chevy dropped the Impala coupe for 1982, and even the Caprice coupe got dropped for 1983. The Caprice coupe made a comeback for 1984, but I don't think they sold more than 15K even in the best years, and I believe they really tapered off after 1985.

I know that rarity doesn't make 'em any more valuable, but I still wouldn't mind having one. With normal wheels.

texases

Anyone here ever ridden in something with those, what, 20 series tires? Any different than a forklift, ride-wise?

andre1969

I never have. When I was at the GM show in Carlisle last week though, I heard someone say that supposedly, if the rims and tires are wide enough, it makes up somewhat, for the ultra-low profile Dunno how much truth there is to that, though.

fintail

Seems with that width and suspension, they'd be really easy to roll.

fintail

My old beast was being quirky in the heat (low 90s, hot for WA) today - was idling a little too slow, and a few times there was a very unpleasant smell coming from somewhere - I wanted to think maybe exhaust, but maybe like burning brake linings or something. I had parked on a slight incline with the brake set, and when I drove off after releasing the brake, I noticed a moaning noise. More to be checked out when it goes in for the yearly checkup in a few weeks. Apart from oil change, I still think it needs a radiator reconditioning as it runs hot on the highway, an occasional odd squeak makes me think wheel bearings, and now this stuff. It never ends.

I had stopped for gas, and a guy beside me was curious about the car, I mentioned it was unrestored, which he thought was cool. That got me thinking about the costs of a restoration. I estimated 8K for body and paint, 8K for engine and transmission, 5K for interior, 5K for chrome/suspension/odds and ends - 26K. Maybe +/- 10% Still way more than it would be worth, but it seems less daunting somehow, the price of a typical Camcord.

I also found this cool old pic of a fintail at the old Lorinser facility (Lorinser is a well known MB tuner). Those tires look just like mine, width appears the same:

Mr_Shiftright

Lucky you don't drive a 60s Ferrari. Paint jobs for show quality are now around $50,000 in California.

fintail

Of course, my guesstimates (were they close?) were based on what I imagine from a decent local shop rather than MB Classic Center or something. No doubt it could be more.

The idea of a restored fintail is cool, but I don't make enough to justify that bad of an investment just yet. As long as it usually runs and drives well, it's fine.

texases

" 26K. Maybe +/- 10%"

26K. Maybe - 10% + 100%

That's more realistic, don't you think?