Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

ab348

I wonder if some of those on Long Island are Hurricane Sandy cars, thus the salvage titles/inability to register in NY State.

qbrozen

I'm not liking any of these. Some toward the end were deleted, so I can't see those.

As for the S80, if that's a T6, it is to be avoided at any price because when the trans goes, and it will, it will cost more than the car is worth.

lemmer

A $130,000 Mercedes AMG Coupe is only $13K with 130,000 miles. That is some insane depreciation, but i assume operating costs would be a tad high. I also noticed the bigger AMG cars weigh so much more than the C class cars, that the crazy supercharged HP doesnt give a huge advantage over the normally aspirated V8.

http://www.worldclassmotors.com/detail-2003-mercedes~benz-cl~class-cl55_2dr_cpe_- - 5_5l_amg-used-10926657.html

texases

Confusingly, the CL is based on the S, not the C, I think, so that's where the weight comes from. Sort of equivalent to the old 'SLC' I believe.

lemmer

Yeah, I don't think I am old enough to drive a 4,200 lb coupe. Seems like a retired guy at a country club kind of car. But jeez, that much HP has to be intoxicating.

Mr_Shiftright

I keep thinking that if I owned that car I'd be dropping .25cents into the coin box just for the gas, every time 1 mile ticked off on the odometer.

fintail

What can go wrong? Airmatic and ABC failures, for one - combine em and you'll be out half the price of the car, if you are lucky. Maybe with all those miles, the achilles heel areas have been addressed. Admittedly, the failure rate on pre-03 models is higher - but 03 is also the first year for that engine and some updates, which can be worrisome. And yeah, it isn't much faster than a C55, but it is a lot bigger, heavier, and fancier.

Cheapest C215 CL55 I have seen - but for a few grand more you can get one with half the miles.

fintail

Pretty close. If you are lucky to score PUG for $4/gallon, that would make 16mpg - you won't get that in a city crawl in one of those.

Mr_Shiftright

Hey, don't get me wrong...if Uncle Albert passes away and leaves me one, I'd take it. And I'd bring it faithfully to Hans and Dieter every spring and fall for a thorough servicing and diagnostic. It would make a nice second car.

But the minute the HVAC system goes kerflooey, it's going to find a new home. Not gonna shovel money into the pit--been there, done that. It never ends once it starts.

andre1969

Heck, 25 cents per mile for something like that sounds like a bargain! My 2012 Ram has been averaging around 26.8 cents per mile in the ~4300 miles I've had it. Average so far is 14.5 mpg. My 2000 Park Ave has been averaging 21.9 cents per mile for 2013 so far. And my '85 Silverado? Oink oink! 40.3 cents per mile, so far in 2013.

My short trip driving tends to kill the economy on anything though. Even on my old 2000 Intrepid, my average for local driving dropped from around 20-21 mpg to 17-18, when I moved from about 13 miles from work to only 3.5. And now I'm only 2.5 from work! I imagine I'd even kill the economy on something like a Prius, because it would probably have to keep relying on the gasoline engine to recharge the batteries.

fintail

From what I know, HVAC isn't a big issue on those cars - it is the complex suspension and body control systems that can be a headache.

I suppose if everything has been updated and fixed, it wouldn't be too painful to own - just lots of gas and maintenance to deal with.

fintail

That CL probably goes to around 10-12 in city traffic. My old E55, similar engine without the supercharger, would pull around 14 in the afternoon grind.

Short trip driving is even more noticeable with the diesel, which can do 40 in highway cruising thanks to being a 7 speed, but in the rush hour crawl is relegated to the low 20s.

Mr_Shiftright

Yep, everything is multiplexed I presume---the electronics could drive you crazy. The expense is in the diagnostic time, and it's not like you can just "drive without it".

oldfarmer50

But it may be more appropriate here. RWD, independent suspension, 280hp. Might be a nice little sleeper. If it runs right.

http://tampa.craigslist.org/hil/cto/3996775086.html

What does a moderately good paint job go for these days?

lemmer

So...what is the best combination of HP and simplicity/reliability (relative, of course) in a Mercedes? C55?

I just have this nagging feeling that everyone should own a Mercedes once in life, and the E320s and the like just don't get me excited.

omarman

"What does a moderately good paint job go for these days?"

Last year on this board some posters suggested that 4K would be a ballpark figure for a decent re-spray and I think that would be without color change or substantial body repair. A quality paint job might take twice that and a show quality paint/body resto for a #1 show car could break $20k.

fintail

C55 aren't known to be troublesome, might have an electrical glitch here, but the maintained powertrain should be bulletproof. Same can be said for the older C43 and even E55, but beware of those if you live in a rusty climate, as turn of the century cars can get crusty in a few spots. I would recommend an AMG over a normal if seeking something fun - a 6cyl E is a nice but unexciting car.

lemko

Heck, I sold my 1975 Cadillac Sedan DeVille to a friend of my Dad's who promptly trashed it.

fintail

When I sell an old car, I would rather sell it to someone far away so I won't see or hear of it again...as I am sure their maintenance and care would annoy me.

tjc78

Yeah, the guy who bought my 89 Town Car had it ruined within two months. Amazing it had survived in pristine shape over 15 years and he killed it almost immediately.

qbrozen

There is such a thing as TOO honest

texases

Here's the info, it is GREAT!:
"CONS: the truck is leaking engine coolant which is causing the transmission to slip. A few error messages are on the dash: trans failure safemode; air suspension inactive; HDC inactive; check engine and ABS lights as well. I tried to get the issue repaired once not putting anymore money into this vehicle. Navigation computer doesn't load disk's neither does the cd changer. Driver side door handle is broken and there is a crack in the passenger side tail light. Engine runs good and strong barely broken in with only 73k miles. I bought this truck from a crocket saler so i'm not 100% sure of all the issues. I've owned the truck a little over 2 years. Its been in the shop more than half that time. I still have a loan out on the vehicle, i really just need it gone. taking a big loss on this one but you live and learn.
Over all this truck is very clean and still has a lot of life left once all the issues are addressed. Main issue would be the trans and coolant leak."

Kind of like the old joke - 'Dog missing, 3 legs, deaf, blind in one eye, answers to "Lucky"'

Mr_Shiftright

That sounds about par for a Range Rover.

fintail

Sounds like the typical 10 year old Range Rover.

explorerx4

About 10 years ago, someone with a NEW Range Rover had it puke Coolant all over my driveway.
I lent them my Expedition to get back home. They didn't want to give it back.

omarman

If only this thoroughbred 1973 C20 "Big Red" had a race track record comparable to that other Big Red from 1973.

stickguy

well, that would certainly scare the bejeebus out of the neighbors.

tjc78

The most over the top ad for a 97 Town Car you will ever see. You might think its a 200k classic. Oh and Astro roofs are for Caddys!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1997-Lincoln-Town-Car-Loaded-Astro-Roof-Touring-a- - nd-collector-hands-/151104705145?pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item232e8ad279#ht_18936w- - t_948

andre1969

That ad is over the top, but I'm finding myself liking that car! Wonder what his reserve is? What year did that restyle come out, 1995 or so? I remember going to my ex-wife's grandmother's funeral in late 1995, and riding in one of those, so it was definitely out by then, at least.

That deep red interior does look a bit garish in some of the pics, but I think the camera flash might be responsible for that. Also, kinda cute that the seller is comparing it to a BMW 7-series of that era and pointing out where it's "better". I'm sure anyone the two buyers are going to be about as opposite as it gets!

tjc78

You are correct that the facelift was 95 (head/tail lights and a major dash change).

It is a nice car, it would be even sweeter with beige or grey interior!

Knowing that seller I bet he has a 10K reserve on it. I could buy an 03 for that!

fintail

Nice car, too much red for me. 9/97 build date, must be one of the last of the old style built. I think the BMW comparison is funny too - the more complex and sometimes oddly engineered car is going to take more work to keep on the road at 16-17 years old? Shocking!

In my first job out of school, my manager had a nice 95-97 TC (so maybe 4-6 years old), a pretty silvery blue with grey interior. Owner was an older woman who retired a few years later, maybe still has it. No vinyl top or other junk on that one either.

I knew the ad copy seemed familiar, I've read his material before - Here's some other cars owned by the seller

tjc78

His collection is just awesome. There are quite a few generally unloved ones in there but its pretty cool that some of those 80s land yachts survived in that condition.

I really like his gov't fully loaded P71 Vic and the white Mark V collectors edition is sweet too.

andre1969

I think it's kinda sad that something that big and heavy only has a GVWR of around 5350 lb. I've noticed though, that often those bigger cars don't have the payload capacity that you might think.

Still, my '79 5th Ave has a GVWR of 5455 lb and my '76 LeMans coupe is 5622. And I know either of those has to weigh less than that Lincoln! Even my old '89 Gran Fury, which has its roots in compact cars (well, okay, a 1976 compact) had a GVWR of around 5100 lb.

I think my buddy's '04 Crown Vic LX was around 5600 lb in GVWR though, so I guess they started beefing them up a bit in later years. Of course, it can also depend on what suspension/tire/wheel packages you have, as well.

Mr_Shiftright

One thing I've learned from doing car appraisals and inspections over the years that many of these 80s land yachts, if they have any miles on them, drive like crap because they need suspension overalls and good tires and a general tightening up. All that weight, plus marginal OEM components, does not make for a happy ride.

Once you invest in that, the difference in handling and braking can be remarkable.

fintail

I agree. He is in it as a labor of love, not a real investment - as most of those cars would be very poor investments.

And not just his American cars, I can pretty much swoon over his SL74 (!) and S600, and the 750iL is pretty amazing looking too. Getting really hard to find pristine examples of the latter two.

tjc78

I think with him it's also a thrill to find the most original perfect cars he can find. Many of his are basically time warp cars that have never been driven.

Shifty, I'm sure you are correct 30 year old suspensions that were soft to begin with don't fare well from sitting.

andre1969

30 year old suspensions that were soft to begin with don't fare well from sitting.

And I'm sure all that "road hugging weight" didn't help, regardless of what Ford's advertising claimed!

I wonder though, if the pre-downsized 70's cars might have had sturdier suspensions than the downsized models? Those earlier behemoths weren't built with fuel economy in mind, so they may have actually been over-built in some respects. But when GM kicked off the downsizing wave in 1977, they tried to save weight anywhere they could. And where GM went, Ford and Chrysler followed.

fintail

Some of his past cars bring that home - many low miles preservation objects there. Amazing quantity and variety. Those 77-79 Fleetwoods with the non-parallel B-pillar have always caught my eye for some reason. When I was a kid, my dad knew a realtor who had one, yellow on yellow, similar to a car on that page but with leather. I remember riding in the back once, it was very comfortable.

andre1969

Wow, I'd better not show my one friend that 600 mile '78 Mark V Diamond Jubilee, or he'd likely take out a 3rd and 4th mortgage to try and score it!

Mr_Shiftright

There was a very low mileage one sold on eBay for $17,500.

andre1969

I think that's about what my friend paid for the '78 DJE that he currently has. I think it had about 13,000 miles on it, and he's got it up to around 14,000 or so now.

He paid a premium for the low miles, and is probably killing value a bit by driving it. But, he's enjoying it, at least. He wasn't so focused on preserving the car, instead taking the attitude that he was getting an "almost new" one, and has no intention of selling it. Unfortunately, he's learning that no matter how low mileage they are, they still break from time to time.

Still, I think it's been *too* troublesome for him.

fintail

I think there are a few cars on there for which Lemko would take out a mortgage or two as well.

ab348

It's odd, but when I think of "Town Car" this '97 style is what comes to mind first, followed by the '80's squared-off version. The '98-up design never seemed to register with me.

lemko

Oh, that red Town Car would make an AWESOME replacement for my Grand Marquis, but I wouldn't want to subject such a gorgeous car to the environment my Grand Marquis experiences on a daily basis.

fintail

That's the problem with preserved cars - you can't store them outside. No doubt a couple Philly winters would ruin it. Even with something like my fintail, I cringe at the thought of how it would look with a few years outside - being garaged is probably a reason for its survival.

Mr_Shiftright

Well you could store, repair and insure it for $3000 a year and then brag about how you "flipped it" for a $6000 profit after only two years!

andre1969

That's why I tend to shy away from cars that are "too" nice. I figure let it go to someone who's really going to appreciate it, whereas I'm going to use it. It's going to end up in the rain from time to time and might get a parking lot ding on it!

fintail

I suspect what I pay for rent is cheaper than the time and materials needed to keep an outside car from rotting away.

I follow Andre's thought, it keeps me from doing any restoration work on the old car. The way it is, I don't worry about driving it. It's an old car. Patina is trendy these days too.

ab348

Matt has really turned over a lot of his collection the last few years. It seems his tastes have changed. There used to be a lot of '50s/'60s Cadillacs, which he has now seemed to have sold. Now he has a lot of Covettes, which really don't interest me much. But he has always had a rather diverse collection, and while not all of them may be to my taste, I certainly admire the collection overall.

andre1969

I managed to get this old beast started during lunch, and it made it to work under its own power...



And even better, it got me home after work without (too much) incident, either!

BTW, how are we supposed to post pics nowadays? Anybody remember the html code for it?