Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

andre1969

Yeah, in the early 60's I suspect the 4-door was probably the biggest seller in the Corvair lineup at least, partly because they didn't offer a hardtop until the 1965 model, and 2-door sedans really weren't all that popular.

But, in a lot of higher-line, larger cars, I think often the 2-door hardtop was the most popular body style. Part of that reason though, might have been because 4-door production would get diluted because of both a hardtop sedan and pillared sedan being offered.

And then, of course, by the 1970's the Personal Luxury coupe reigned supreme...

Mr_Shiftright

Actually I was wrong. There were more coupes than 4-door Corvairs for their entire production run EXCEPT the 1st year, 1960. The 2D "Monza" coupe was the star of the Corvair line, in terms of best-seller.

The last corvair 4-door was 1967, so they didn't even make 'em in 68 and 69.

Among the rarest Corvairs was the Rampside. In 1964 only 851 made!

lemmer

How about that for a friend? Dude traded in his E55 without even calling me first. Now the dealer wants $19K (fixed pricing) versus our talk about $15K.

http://www.tomwilliamslexus.com/MiscPage_16

No pics or anything up yet.

His wife says he did me a huge favor, said maintenance was astronomically expensive. But she drives an Acura MDX.

explorerx4

with flying colors. I guess that refurbished computer is doing the job.
Only needs 1 more test, after that it will be beyond the 25 year limit.

Mr_Shiftright

Okay the auction on that '62 Corvair had 1 bid to $2000 and did not meet the $4600 asking price.

Apparently others think the same about the car as some of us do.

qbrozen

yeah, I see that. hmmm... wonder if he'll still have it when i get the benz up and running good.

texases

I guess I'm not surprised. That Corvair look like 'a real neat car for somebody ELSE to buy'...

qbrozen

Is it fast enough to outrun the ugly?

Michaell

Huh, I kinda like it.

A resto-mod faux-woody wagon.

Talk about a sleeper! Pull up next to a Porsche and leave it in the dust.

Of course, the first corner that showed up, you'd be toast.....

andre1969

It ain't gonna handle like a Porshe, but those M-bodies were fairly decent handlers, for that type of car. My '89 Gran Fury handled pretty well. But then, it was an ex copcar, so it was upgraded (which I'd presume that Diplomat wagon is). Oh, and my old Plymouth didn't have the weight of a big-block over the front axle!

That thing's actually pretty sweet. I wonder if the seats in it are stock? You could get leather in a Diplomat or LeBaron back then, but I've never seen a wagon with leather seats. I've seen a few coupes with leather, and I think a sedan or two.

texases

Total amount of money spent on that Diplomat = $$$
Total amount that'll be bid = 1/4 X $$$

Quirky idea, looks well done, but once you've driven it a time or two, wouldn't you rather have that 440 in a fun car?

ab348

I do too. Looks like a very professional job.

Michaell

but once you've driven it a time or two, wouldn't you rather have that 440 in a fun car?

"Fun"? A different body style won't make the car handle any better. Perhaps a lighter body might be worth a few tenths on the drag strip.

I like the idea of the big engine in a wagon. Remember the "Boss Wagon" series from Car & Driver? I thoroughly enjoyed each of those projects over the years.

There were six "Boss Wagons" over the years:

1. 1966 Plymouth Fury III
2. 1968 Oldsmobile Visa Cruiser 455
3. 1977 Volvo 265 GT
4. 1981 Mercedes Benz 300TD-T
5. 1993 Ford Taurus SHO Wagon
6. 2008 MazdaSpeed 5

(admission - I didn't start reading C&D until 1976, so I never read about the first two in the list)

stkntraffic

I loved the Mazda5 Boss Wagon. I seem to recall their wrap-up article was pretty lame though. The car wasn't quite running yet, and then they never mentioned it again. I always wondered what happened- did they fix it or junk it.

andre1969

"Fun"? A different body style won't make the car handle any better. Perhaps a lighter body might be worth a few tenths on the drag strip.

Heck, I wouldn't mind having that setup in one of my '79 New Yorkers! It might actually work better in one of those too, as they're based on the old '71-79 B-body, so it can easily accommodate a big block. They're heavier, beefier cars as well, so they would probably require less shoring up to take that drivetrain.

explorerx4

That car is just on the other side of really crazy and I like it.
The exhaust is a little scary, the left pipe exits pretty near the fuel filler cap.
I think I like the original disc wheel covers in the magazine pictures better than the rims on there now. They look good and added to the sleeper image.
I'm guessing the windshield wipers were removed for the pictures.

Mr_Shiftright

I don't think you'll beat a new-ish Porsche in that car, even in a drag race. A 440/6-pak in that body is not going to be all that fast--perhaps a 6 second car. A new Porsche will slap it silly. But you know, it's a "legend" and all that...

qbrozen

psstt... excuse me, but you mistyped when you entered the starting bid.

Could you now post pics of the "excellent" car. And get that bomb out of the trunk before someone gets hurt!

Mr_Shiftright

66 Nova 4D -- well, lotsa luck selling a 4-door 6 cylinder automatic, non-stock, rust bucket with non working heater, a balky floor shifter cut into it, and wheezy electrics for that price.

Why would anyone buy this car for even $1000?

98 BMW M3 -- That's high miles for an M3 of that era--they were not long-lived engines. Condition looks to be about a #3, so I'm thinking around $7000 is all the money here...maybe.

andre1969

The '66-67 is my favorite era of the Chevy II/Nova, but I think the only way I would take that car would be if it was free. And even then I might think twice.

Mr_Shiftright

I think it's a parts car at best. If there's no decent sheet metal left (sounds like it's all rotted) then there must be trim bits of value, engine, trans and differential, gauges perhaps, some glass. Being a base level car it probably doesn't have any desirable or hard to find options on it.

I'd guess it's worth $500 to $650 bucks.

qbrozen

Yup, I'd really like to think he hit that zero key too many times by mistake.

texases

But he's "Going to confirm whether or not this is a matching numbers car very soon."

That's got to be worth BIIIIG $$, right? :P

Mr_Shiftright

meaningless on a car of that type. Poor guy is lost in some fantasy land. Probably watched too many high dollar auctions on TV.

bhill2

But .. but.. doesn't it mean anything if it's the original 194 c.i. six?

Mr_Shiftright

nope, it doesn't mean anything because nobody cares about so-called "matching numbers" on a base level 6 cylinder 4-door car. In fact, if it had a non-original V8 in it, it would be worth MORE, not less.

Actually there may be 5 or 10 people who care, but they don't have any money, so......

fortee9er

I have been a member of this forum for sometime but I never learned how to insert links (to CL) in the message. Could some one point me to the instructions on how to do this.
Thank You

stickguy

do you want to post a link, or insert a picture? If you want to post a link just copy/paste it.

if you want to embed a picture, you need to use the buttons at the bottom of the message box (note that for now, you have to be doing a "new" message, not a reply). first copy the URL of the picture. Then in the message box, click "IMG", paste the url, then click IMG again. that should insert the HTML code needed, and if the GOds are in a good mood, your picture will appear.

you can't, however, paste a picture image directly. Has to be hosted elsewhere.

fortee9er

While trawling through the local (Houston) CL for interesting old cars I saw so many ridiculously priced cars (lawn ornaments) that I wondered if this is the new norm. I am submitting some that I considered worthy of discussion for your entertainment.
http://houston.craigslist.org/cto/4053280251.html
http://houston.craigslist.org/cto/4012637443.html
http://houston.craigslist.org/cto/4001098802.html
http://houston.craigslist.org/cto/4004513220.html
http://houston.craigslist.org/cto/4038342003.html
http://houston.craigslist.org/cto/4034572499.html
http://houston.craigslist.org/cto/4051991872.html
http://houston.craigslist.org/cto/4019022341.html
http://houston.craigslist.org/cto/4032024753.html
http://houston.craigslist.org/cto/4073806168.html
http://houston.craigslist.org/cto/4051937461.html
http://houston.craigslist.org/cto/4070419924.html
http://houston.craigslist.org/cto/4015347956.html
http://houston.craigslist.org/cto/3921815754.html

Mr_Shiftright

Well it's the "new norm" in the sense that labor rates and storage rates have gotten so high that this type of rolling wreck is simply not worth restoring, so these "projects' that people have been hanging onto have now run slam dunk into the unpleasant obstacle we call "reality".

Without lots of money and lots of skill, no one is going to bring these old barges back, and most of the ones you picked simply aren't worth doing.

Most of these are parts cars at best.

When folks watch too many TV auctions or automotive "reality" shows, they lose site of the fact that THOSE cars are not THEIR cars....and also that "reality shows" are heavily rigged to work out.

I guess some of these hulks will pass from one dreamer to the next, to be stored under a tree for another 10 years.

fintail

Too bad the 60 Plymouth is so far gone, those have to be really rare.

"original drive train was running at one time" ...love it

Maybe the sellers are expecting a run up in scrap metal prices.

lemko

Nah! That 1960 Plymouth is just waiting for some dorky teenager to buy it, then it'll mysteriously restore itself! ;P

fintail

It does have kind of a Christine quality to it in the pics.

What's with the vents on top of the dash, factory air?

andre1969

What's with the vents on top of the dash, factory air?

I just checked those pics and yep, it has air conditioning! Has the big "V2" a/c compressor under the hood. That's also a big block under the hood. Most likely the 295 hp 361-2bbl. Dunno if that adds much, if anything for value. I'd guess most of them just used the 318, which in those years came as a 2-bbl (230 hp) or 4-bbl (255-260 hp).

It's ugly, but still kinda cool IMO.

Also, I don't know if that a/c is factory or not. My '67 Newport, '68 Dart, and '69 Dart all used that V-2 compressor, but I don't know what year it first came out. I think its last year was around 1978. At least, the three '79 R-bodies I've had all used a more compact, modern looking compressor.

fintail

Interesting, I hadn't even examined the engine, the interior took me aback, especially the weird dashboard. A strange car, really so ugly, it's cool. I have to imagine you'd be the only one at a Mopar show.

lemko

You'd be surprised how many do show up at a Mopar show. I remember seeing quite a few at the Carlisle Chrysler show. I do agree they're so ugly they're cool! I'd say the 1959, 1960, and 1961 Plymouth all fall in that category.

Funny, I remember an old episode of "The Mod Squad" where there was a police auction. A bunch of people were trying to outbid each other for a particular blue and white eight year-old 1959 Plymouth Savoy sedan. One of the bidders, played by Jack Albertson, bid $90. It's been over 30 years since I saw it the episode, but I think there was money or jewels stashed in the car the police didn't know about.

andre1969

There was an episode of "Hazel", where Hazel wanted to buy a '59 Plymouth Sport Fury convertible, for something like $600-700, and Mr. B. was telling her it was an awful lot of money for a car that old. I forget which season that was, but it would've been the 1965 model year, at the latest, as they switched out most of the cast for the final season of "Hazel" and moved the set from the Gidget house (next door to Sam and Darren), and down the street to that big mansion that Darren's ex-girlfriend lived in (also the Baldwin sisters on "The Waltons"). And that final season was 1965-66, which would have been the '66 model year.

IIRC, it was a pretty nice Fury, too, equipped with power windows. But, that was probably a lot of money for a tailfinned freak that nobody really wanted by the mid-60's.

Oh, and while we do see a good turnout of '59-61 Plymouths at that Mopar show, I think the 4-door hardtops are still pretty rare.

qbrozen

Over $4k bid so far? This looks like a nightmare to me.

He did say the floor is rusted. So this seems to already be bid to more than its worth, too, no??

I don't even think this would make a good parts car. You've got maybe 1 headlight bezel, an emblem or 2, and maybe a decent looking speedometer. How about $100?

Mr_Shiftright

912 -- looks like a parts car to me. There's no way to come out restoring this car---the engine (oh my god, look at that poor thing) alone will cost you $10,000 easy--and no, it's not a VW engine and it's not "easy" to rebuild. Body work, paint, interior---even on the cheap you're looking at $35,000 to make this car presentable (and it won't win any trophies either). Just go buy one for half that. The only real virtue of this car is an esoteric one--it's a short wheelbase 912, and is preferred for vintage racing in Europe....not that you can win anything with it, but still, it's fun. This is a real Porsche, not a 914, so you're going to have to bear the EXACT same expense as if you were restoring a 911 targa. To the boneyard, so that others may live.

50 Ford -- looks like a decent driver--could go up to around $5K. I would want someone to put some eyeballs on that rust, however. Some pan perforation isn't bad to deal with, but if the rust has penetrated into where the A pillar meets the floor, oh baby, you got BIG problems. But if that checks out, looks like a pretty neat car for cheap.

65 Corvair -- parts? WHAT parts? There isn't a piece on that car that doesn't need restoration. $400 tops.

qbrozen

$5k? Really?
I think I'm usually a bit higher than you on things like this, but this time we've flopped.
You did notice it has too many doors, right?

hpmctorque

$100 so you could tow it to the crusher and get $40...if they'd take it? It seems to me that the hassle required to buy that clunker to sell a few parts would put a very low value on your time and effort. Tow truck, please!

fintail

I have to imagine they rusted pretty heartily, too. A loaded car with AC and the big engine would be best, especially as a HT.

The 61 is way out there for weirdness, I think when Exner started taking hallucinogens. Plymouths of the era were also often seen on Leave it to Beaver:

Mr_Shiftright

Why don't you put it on your watch list and let us know what it sells for? That '53 Willys I saw sold for $5300. But that was a 2D hardtop that's true.

But you know, people love to rod these old Fords, and it seems to run well (I watched the video) and it has the sun visor and a good stereo system and 12 v electrics, so yeah, it could bring $5K .

qbrozen

But what it is worth and what it sells for aren't always the same thing, if TV auctions have taught us anything.

Mr_Shiftright

True, it would have to sell at that price from buyer to buyer before a new value is established.

If that car really ran well and wasn't badly rusted, I could flip it here in California for $5K, no problem.

fintail

Euro prices always amuse me...of course, this is where fintails often fly past 25K Euro.

Mr_Shiftright

Best one existing in the United States would be lucky to break $20,000.

berri

Leave It To Beaver (I still like that show!) started out with a 57 Ford and then was Mopar the rest of the years. The first pix is a 61 alright. Actually from the side I don't think it's a bad looking car, especially the roofline and greenhouse. The back ends are a bit iffy, but the front - yuck! I believe the two cars in the 2nd pix are from 1960.

fintail

I kind of like the show too, it airs here occasionally. I watched it a bit in the 80s when it ran on Nickelodeon along with Dennis the Menace (which I like too, especially the earlier seasons with Joseph Kearns). Right on the years of the car, too. There's at least one episode where Ward's 61 4 door HT is featured heavily.

Speaking of Dennis the Menace and 60 Fords from earlier, that one was definitely Ford sponsored, and 59-62 Fords were shown a lot. Here's a nice Sunliner:

fintail

Indeed, and might be a slow seller. German guy is probably dreaming, but I bet he'll get more than 30K Euro for it anyway.