Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

michaellno

BTW, how are we supposed to post pics nowadays? Anybody remember the html code for it?

If you don't use the "reply" button, the formatting buttons are there. Edmunds is still trying to figure out why they don't exist when you reply.

fintail

Just use the standard manual img src codes, but be sure to put " around the URL.

You do a good job at modifying your license plate numbers.

fintail

Nice W108 brings decent money - not a fortune, and it would be much cheaper to buy this car than to resurrect a neglected mess, but 6cyl cars don't usually bring this much. Nice to see.

explorerx4

open 2 sessions, then copy the html from session 2 into session 1.
You can probably do the whole thing and just paste it once into session 1.

andre1969

Thanks, got it to work! As for modifying those license plates, I just use Photoshop elements, and clone one of the numbers. On my '85 Silverado it's easy, because its license plate actually starts with "666"!

fintail

I've always just matched a background color and painted the plate, in an old program I've kept around called Paint Shop Pro.

Good plate number too. I've never had anything cool like that. The plate on the fintail, which is an old plate with three letters-three numbers, has letters which spell a word and a friend of mine always laughs at it.

qbrozen

like so:
[a href="enter link here"]
follow that with some text such as "click here," and follow that with [/a]

Now, in place of the square brackets above, use angle brackets (also known as the less than and greater than symbols).

lemko

I heard a story where a woman complained to the DMV about the license plate she was issued: SOW-325. The number was very close to the woman's actual weight!

Mr_Shiftright

Don't much like that model MB---very fussy car. It's no fintail.

fintail

Maybe it wasn't a coincidence. Speaking of that, I can remember at least partial license plate combinations on some family cars going back to the Tempo. Sane, I am not.

My state now has ABC1234 style plates, so there's a possibility of a short word and fun digits. I wouldn't mind a 1313 combination, or an 8888 to make superstitious Asians jealous

fintail

It is virtually identical to the later V8 models and to the untrained eye, even a 6.3. I was surprised at the bids - a 220SE fintail in similar condition would struggle to hit that (of course in Germany, it's worth twice as much).

Mr_Shiftright

They're real gas hogs, and if the ignition points are a teensy-weensy bit off, or if the valves are just a tiny bit too snug, or if you don't rev it up to redline driving around town, they miss and sputter and...starting when hot?...good luck with that.

fintail

So, it's just like a fuel injected fintail?

My car has had similar issues at one time or another in its life. Well, mileage is OK - maybe 16-17 or so in town, but can hit low 20s cruising at 60mph. It needs to be revved, it has sputtering issues now and then, was at one time hard to start when hot (seems better lately) - but I will say it is maybe the easiest cold starting car I've ever had. It can sit for a month or more and fire up on the first turn of the key like it was last driven a day ago.

tjc78

"was at one time hard to start when hot (seems better lately)"

Probably running at the right temp now that you had all that cooling system work done.

My 79 Continental was always a little dicey to start when hot. I did a lot of work on that myself and probably had the timing retarded a bit.

fintail

It does much better on the highway now, back to normal. Probably been 10 years since it really ran at a normal temperature at speed. The hot starting issues seemed to be mostly before the car received electronic ignition. Now all I do is adjust the idle speed, which seems to somehow be connected to timing or fuel mixture, one little move can make a huge difference.

bhill2

Fin, your comment about your old beast needing to be revved brought up a question in my mind. How does your transmission handle this? In normal driving does it rev fairly high before upshifting and/or downshift at even light application of the throttle?

fintail

Old MB automatics are quirky - they don't have a torque converter, and they can be really clunky, especially downshifts when slowing down. It usually upshifts way too early (4th by ~30mph when accelerating normally), so I shift it myself to squeeze out some more acceleration. This puts more wear on the shift linkage, which failed a few years ago (at least while in a forward gear). Accelerating harder might make it shift a little later, but not much. The transmission wants the car to be mellow, but the engine wants to go.

Mr_Shiftright

Old Benz automatics are best shifted manually, at high RPM.

fintail

That's what I do. I don't often make the engine scream, but even delaying shifts by a few seconds - almost always the shift from 3-4, makes a world of difference. I also like to manually shift down from 4th in suburban traffic.

Mr_Shiftright

So if you guys were buying an older vehicle that needed AC re-charge, would you search around for some R12 and pay the scary price per lb. or would you bite the bullet and convert to R134a?

pros and cons:

R12 route might be cheaper in the short term but what it THAT leaks out in a year?

conversion to R134s, to do it RIGHT, is probably a $600 proposition. That's a big hit on a used car right off the top.

texases

I'd bite the bullet, if I'm buying some pre-'96 car I guess I'll be paying for quite a bit of maintenance/repairs/etc. Given the potential for multiple a/c leaks, I'd hate to have R-12 hissing away...

andre1969

Really, the R134a conversion is that cheap?! I could've sworn I've heard mechanics around here say it's a good $1000 or more!

None of my old cars have functioning a/c. In the DeSoto's case, it wasn't even equipped with a/c. I usually don't drive the old cars when it gets too hot, unless I'm going to the Carlisle GM show in late June, Mopar show around mid July, or the early August show out near Allentown PA. And in those situations, I just tough it out.

With having several cars to spread the driving around, I'd worry about putting a lot of money into the a/c, only to have it start leaking out from lack of use.

hpmctorque

I bought R-12 from a Ebay Motors ad for my '88 300 ZX in Spring of last year because the refrigerant was a little low. This was the first time that any refrigerant had been added to that car. The A/C still blew cold air, but I thought it would be best to top it off. The A/C worked very well all summer and into the Fall, but I sold the car in January because the manual transmission failed. At 194,500 miles the car had other needs too, so I sold it to a Z-car enthusiast who had a trusted mechanics that fixed and maintained the vehicles for his contracting business. The buyer of my car happened to have a '87 300ZX with manual that he planned to use as a parts car.

Long story short, if the A/C of the older car doesn't leak, or if the leak is repairable without too much expense, I'd refill with R-12. Recycled R-12 is
still available and legal. If the compressor is shot, or the system is otherwise expensive to repair, I'd convert to R-34a.

explorerx4

The A/C in my 1991 Mustang worked up until the middle of last summer, then wasn't working at the end.
I don't really use it other than to see if it worked, but I'd rather refill it with R12.

Mr_Shiftright

Got a friend who wants to lease a new car, and a quite expensive one, so he has to cough up maybe $4k-$5K in front money and fees--he's in a legitimate cash flow crunch, so he wants me to buy his 1997 Mercedes E320, 160K, "pristine" and fully maintained. It really is quite a car.

Problem is, I don't WANT a 1997 Mercedes E320 with 160,000 miles on it, but I do want to help him.

What do you all think is a fair offer?---'good for the buyer, good for the seller'. I am not a charitable organization, so I'm just going to try and flip the car. Just hose it off and sell it.

fintail

Pristine, detailed, with all records and no needs at all, 4-5K is all the money in the world for that car. So if you paid that, you couldn't flip it. A few grand tops, and that's it brakes and tires are as-new.

Mr_Shiftright

yeah, it's tip-top all the way 'round. I was thinking of giving him $3K and selling it for $4K. I'm counting on the spectacular condition to push me to full "blue book".

BIG wad of maintenance receipts, yep.

Yeah, that's what I thought: $4K is all the money.

fintail

Those early W210s aren't as horrible as they have been made out to be. Just gotta keep up with the needs, and they eventually hit a point where the quirks are worked out. That one is likely in such a state. Be sure to clean the headlight lenses if they are yellowed.

It'd be worth twice as much if diesel.

What colors? Let me guess, a gold/beige/tan/bronze kind of thing with similar interior.

Mr_Shiftright

yep, gold. Runs great though.

hpmctorque

Why not help him by selling it for him for a good price, whatever that may be, without assuming the risk and hassle of flipping it?

Also, maybe the most valuable help you can give him, since he's in a cash crunch, is to counsel him to lease a less expensive car.

Mr_Shiftright

Oh he has access to money, that's not really the issue. he's on something of an allowance.

hpmctorque

That 320E sounds like a car I'd love to own if I needed another car now. Is your friend the original owner?

fintail

It'd probably be a good runner for someone who can commit themselves to maintenance and be sure to keep a little stash of money in case of emergency repairs. The look rich for cheap crowd will be attracted to it, but hopefully a MB person will buy it and keep it up.

Mr_Shiftright

Yep, original owner.

gsemike

Pretty ratty for this money Should have really left that dash stock

Looks terrific but I don't thin that these are there yet

Same with this Are there guys out there that love these?

High style Save this for next summer in the Hamptons

Fun and stylish for not much dough I know that the metal bumpers are preferred

The seller is the only guy that thinks of these like this Ultimately, not a bad car, especially since it has 3 pedals but wow

Beautiful but is it worth this?

Rat rod limo

Mr_Shiftright

76 Stepside Hot Rod -- I think the owner knows himself that he's high on the price--when you see an ad where the person wants to "trade", that's usually a tip-off that they are "fishing" for buyers. But with that rust, those dents, and overall light grunge, I'd say about $4000 is all the money on this one.

1976 Vette --no way at $25K...possibly $19K...perhaps someday though, but with 180HP this car is literally going nowhere fast. if you're holding one waiting to cash in, you might consider an IRA instead.

76 Fiat -- I have no idea how to price this thing. Can it pull like an original Fiat 600 in the marketplace? I doubt it. A show quality Fiat 850 Spider might approach these numbers but that's a drop top, so.

450SL -- lotsa luck getting serious money for these cows. I helped a friend sell a 380SL, very nice condition, IN California, IN summer, and we had to beg for $6500. Gas hungry, clumsy, $$$ to fix. Sports Car Market gives it an investment grade of "D"---so buy 'em cheap if you like 'em. Perfect car for the "look rich for cheap" type of buyer, and hey, that's fine.

76 MGB -- price is fair enough for this unfortunate victim of the MG board of directors. Contrary to popular belief, however, these are not "easy" to convert to a chrome bumper car. I have seen people modify these cars so they handle well and go fast, but it's not cheap to do that--easily 3X the value of the car.

1976 Camaro -- obviously he had modified it---he might get that price.

1977 Porsche Targa -- if the car were as perfect as it seems, he may well indeed get close to his asking price. Low original miles, pristine condition--hard to find in an old 911, because these cars are usually driven by their owners and they can rack up many hundreds of thousands of miles, no problem. My concern would be the rather vulnerable 1977 2.7L engine, always a source of worry.

gsemike

A local guy has a similar MGB but modded very tastefully. It's got a saddle roof and interior, modern wheels that fit well and the exhaust sounds sweet. It's a really nice car all around and when I see the owner pushing it, it scoots along really nicely.

On the 76 Camaro, I hate the wheels but otherwise like it. Put on a nice weldwheel and I'm there

Mr_Shiftright

I suspect he modified the engine. 64 HP and 92 ft/lbs of torque at 4600 rpm won't make anything much "scoot".

Poor MG. And to think some suits decided to kill that marque so that they could produce the....(wait for it) TR7 !

qbrozen

I was at a show today with maybe 25 cars. Figured I'd see a couple for sale and sure enough did. The one that caught my eye was a '64 Fairlane 500. It was all original and all there, but in pretty rough shape. No rot to speak of but the paint was very dull and faded, worn through in spots, and a little bit of surface rust here and there. That wouldn't be SO bad but the part that did trouble me was that each of those great taillights was pushed in ever so slighty. Must have been an oddball accident. That would be tough to fix. What was interesting was that it was a 289 3-on-the-tree 4-DOOR. Interior was livable but really needs new carpet. Would make for an interesting rat rod, but the 4 doors does take away from it.

So, I know what I was thinking pricewise, and I know what the seller was asking, but before I share that... what do you folks think?

Mr_Shiftright

$1500--$1750 if you were feeling generous. Three on tree is actually a deduct as well.

stickguy

hey, I was right for a change. I was going to guess 1.5K, 2K "the moon".

of course, I am one of the few odd balls that would want a stick. But not 4 doors.

I really don't see what you would do with this. And even I know that 4 wise, you can't get here from there. What would that be worth if it was all done up with a #1 resto - 10K?

Now, if it was a 2 door, and you wanted to move the shift to the floor and create a thunderbolt clone out of it, you could have a fun toy!

so how about, but it cheap, get a sawzall and a case of beer, and shorten it up just a tad. About the length of the back doors say? Weld it all back together, and there you go!

Mr_Shiftright

maybe $8000 all ready for Pebble Beach.

What happens to cars like this? Well, we all know the likely outcome:

1. Used as a donor car for a 2D or ragtop

2. Art project/Lemons enduro car

2. Bought by someone who will let it rot in their backyard

3. Donated to charity and scrapped to make teapots for tourists in Turkey (no really, we send a lot of old car metal there).

Naturally to my mind, #1 is the best we could hope for and #2 is okay.

andre1969

This is probably a long shot, but sometimes a car like that might fall into the hands of someone who wants something antique, but doesn't want to spend a lot of money. And for whatever reason it catches their eye.

Unfortunately, I guess as soon as something major breaks, it falls into the category of rotting in the back yard, or getting scrapped.

qbrozen

wow. maybe I was being super generous at thinking $3k. Half of that being strictly for the 289.

Well, no matter, he was asking $6500!

After I got back, for kicks, I did a search to see if I could find it advertised online. I didn't, but I did find this comparable one. Obviously, this one is in FAR better shape and for a lower asking price. AND a better color combo. This one also appears to be an automatic. I really really like this one, as a matter of fact.

tjc78

That one looks pretty nice (good color combo too). Classic example of how paying for nicer condition will probably put you ahead.

What's your vision here? Sleeper, or just an inexpensive cruiser/show car? I could see a massaged 351/4 bbl, nice throaty exhaust and period set of wheels. For around 10K you could do worse.

qbrozen

inexpensive cruiser. I've never actually owned AND driven a "classic" car (I've owned a couple when I was young that were never on the road).

tjc78

For that purpose you could probably buy and enjoy for a few years and get back what you paid. I'm sure it would be in the same or better condition.

qbrozen

i sometimes get tempted by what seem to be ridiculous bargains

Could it really be that bad?
How about even fewer miles?

I also feel like a have to get a Jag out of my system one of these days.

andre1969

I hate to confess to it, but I've had a bit of a thing for those Jags, as well. But I'm guessing there's a reason they're so cheap. What's the phrase...pretty poison, or something like that?

fintail

I think it can be that bad. Those things are becoming a rare sight on the road (not parked beside a garage or in a field) already.