There wasn't a 64 Fairlane convertible, was there?
My dad had a 68 Fairlane (admittedly the 64 was much cooler looking) spec'd like the car that was mentioned - 289, 3 on the tree, zero options other than radio. Nothing. And it was white on white. Bought it out of an estate in the 90s for next to nothing, it was in really decent condition. He drove it often for a couple years, then the clutch started acting up, and he sold it. I swear I saw it a couple years later.
Y'know, I thought there was a Fairlane convertible starting for 1963, but I just looked it up in my old car book. No convertible Fairlane until 1966, which was the year that the Fairlane, Comet, and Falcon all became the same basic car.
1963 was the year that the Fairlane expanded a bit by getting a hardtop coupe. I just presumed it got a convertible as well, but nope.
I always thought the '63 Fairlane 500 hardtop was a sweet looking little car. That year they did a really good job of aping the bigger cars, IMO.
Something else I always thought was odd...for 1965, the big Fords got vertical headlights, while the Mercury were horizontal. Yet the '65 Comet got vertical headlights, while the Fairlane's were horizontal. I wonder why they didn't try to do more of a family tie-in with the smaller cars that year?
Regardless, I thought the '65 Comet was pretty attractive, almost a bit Pontiac-ish. But the '65 Fairlane didn't work as well, IMO.
I hate to confess to it, but I've had a bit of a thing for those Jags, as well.
I think that buying a Jag that vintage would require some careful inspection. The cost of fixing an engine problem or, dear God, a transmission problem can be fiendishly expensive. That being said, my wife and I own a 2001 XK, which has the same drivetrain, instruments, seats (front) and so on as the advertised ones. Ours also has similar mileage. We love it, and have a couple of times made the deliberate decision to keep it rather than getting a newer one (decision was, admittedly, partially financial). Anyway, if one of those cars is in good condition it would be one sweet ride.
2009 BMW 335i, 2003 Corvette cnv. (RIP 2001 Jaguar XK8 cnv and 1985 MB 380SE [the best of the lot])
Seeing that Fairlane brings back an old memory. My mom had one just like that when I was real little. The only reason I remember it was because it caught fire and she had to drag me out to safety.
I couldn't have been more than 3 or 4 years old. After that, she bought a 72 AMC Hornet which she drove for many years, until giving to me when I turned 16.
Those Fairlane HTs are nice looking, and the 66-67s can be equipped pretty nicely too.
When I was younger, a little old lady in town was the original owner of a cream yellow and black 65 Comet HT. She kept it in very nice shape, and I remember briefly talking to her about it when I was out with a friend in his 65 Ford, and we saw her in town. I wonder what became of it...that was probably around 1995, and she was pushing 80 then I'm sure.
No difference. It's like with the 1st generation Mustangs. There's no premium for the base V8 or automatic trans, and a deduct for the 6, a deduct for 3-speed manual. There's an add-on for the more powerful 289 w/ 4bbl and of course for a 4-speed manual transmission.
So the car you saw sort of whiffs 3X in a row--one strike for engine, one for 4 doors, and one for 3-speed stick.
In other words, the car has the "worst" of all possible combinations for that type.
And, my guess is that you're not going to find too many 271 hp 289's, and 4-speed's, in a 4-door Fairlane!
What kind of automatic transmission did the Fairlane use? Was it still a 2-speed, or were they offering a 3-speed by then? I know Ford was a bit behind Chrysler with making 3-speed automatics more widely available, but I think they did it before Chevy. I knew a guy who had a '62 Galaxie, with a 292, and it just had a 2-speed automatic.
2005, 103K miles, price was $18,990, special labor day sale price was $16,990. They came back a couple times, going down to $15,500. That was still way too much. It had a clean carfax, but the entire driver's side was repainted and the little rear corner window was tinted and a different brand than the other windows. So I suppose it had been crunched. And the AC was really slow to cool off.
I didn't want this car, particularly at anything near what they were willing to sell it for. But in addition to that, the test drive was kind of not what I expected. It felt fast, but not fun fast like a contemporary Vette or M3. I am not sure what to think.
An C55 AMG with over 100K miles is going to stay epoxied to the floor at that price. You'd be generous at $12K, you'd be smart at $10K.
CARFAX makes me crazy sometimes. Aside from missing things, which might be forgivable, sometimes they will ADD things after you've bought the car! Their response: "Oh, well, new data comes in all the time, not our problem".
If the stakes were a $100,000 purchase, I'd challenge that legally.
I wouldn't even spend 10K. Just spend more and get a nicer car. The imperfections in the cheaper car will always be in the back of your head, along with wondering what really happened to it. Carfax can be a joke, too - I wouldn't buy something like that without a good inspection by a trusted shop.
And about the driving experience, assuming the car didn't have any other maladies, an AMG is going to be more mellow than an M car or an American muscle car.
Yeah, the one tinted window that was obviously a junkyard replacement. The question this brings up would drive me nuts.
Funny thing, I mentioned that it had paintwork. The salesguy wandered off, mentioned it to the sales manager, and the sales manager went running out there and looked at it. If they missed that when they took it in, then...Wow.
Something else interesting happened. When I relayed this story to another car guy neighbor, he said he'd been fooling around with selling his 2004 E55. 91K, perfect service history, one fender got scraped in his parking lot at work and was repainted nicely. Almost new tires and brakes.
He says he thinks it is worth about $15K but he wasn't quoting me a price. I think it would be one of these things where when he finds the right car, maybe tomorrow, maybe in five months, he will call and ask if I want it. He did complain that little things go wrong here and there and the little things cost tons.
If that thing got Michelins and brake rotors, tires and brakes for that car would be expensive, maybe $2500 - at an independent. Not a car with low running costs. 15K is right on for a private party sale for a decent car with average miles.
Lots of bang for the buck though. The big worry is airmatic, and the earlier (03-04) cars seem to have more issues. The key would be to see what has already been replaced. If all the trouble spots have been addressed, there are far worse ways to spend the money. 469hp and 520 lb/ft are impressive. Not a fuel miser either - probably mid-upper teens overall, low 20s on the highway, low teens in town.
Before buying, I would go over the work done, get some pics, and show it off on the mbworld or benzworld W211 AMG forums, and get some opinions form owners.
What kind of automatic transmission did the Fairlane use? Was it still a 2-speed, or were they offering a 3-speed by then?
FWIW, in 1964 you could get both the 2-speed and the 3-speed. I don't know the availability by engine choice; I suspect that you could, for instance, only get the 2-speed with the base engine, but I'm not sure.
2009 BMW 335i, 2003 Corvette cnv. (RIP 2001 Jaguar XK8 cnv and 1985 MB 380SE [the best of the lot])
Made a bid on a pretty clean old truck --92 Ford Ranger. But there were these two "unknowns" and one thing I don't like about used cars is "unknowns".
For one, the AC didn't work. Well that's an R12 system, so a hassle to recharge and even after one spends that money, one doesn't know if there's was a big leak (there goes $200 out the window), or if the compressor is bad, or....that might necessitate conversion to R134s---and that could run up to $500-$600, if you do it right and want it really cold.
Then we have a dead gas gauge. Here's another tricky one. You have to drop the gas tank (heaven forbid ford could have put a little hatch in the bed of a pickup!) and replace the sender. But aha! If the sender wasn't the problem, then it's the gauge, and Ford gauges of that era are all integrated into one electronic/epoxied blob---so the entire instrument panel comes out to be replaced.
Bugs me. These two items are not something one can easily live without. We can get 100 degree heat and running out of gas is no fun, ever.
So a $2500 truck can easily become a $3500 truck, and then you add sales tax and California registration fees, and you're bustin' $4K.
I offered $1800 cash but no-go.
Fortunately, I have detected no California-wide used truck shortage.
Shifty, I sympathize with you both on the AC issue and on the $1800 offer -- what do they think this truck is worth, anyway??
But the gas gauge? Please. Fill the tank, zero the trip odometer, fill again after xxx miles, done. Dropping the tank and/or monkeying with the instrument cluster is a fool's errand on a car this old.
You want 'perfect', buy a 2006 for $7k and call it good. You should see what older Rangers look like here in the rust belt...
The problem as I see it is, many trucks are used to make money, so they always have some value. For you the AC is a big problem, but others, not so much. Since fall is approaching, I'd be more concerned about the gas gauge, short term. If you find another one in the same price range with working AC, let this one go.
2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
Well sure, as a fallback position I'd just set the odometer. But you know as well as I do, that sooner or later we find ourselves pushing the limits of the known "range". Running out of gas on a California freeway is no joke, lemme tell ya'
But yes, tearing out the instrument panel is crazy.
I thought I'd at least give it a tremendously thorough effort to get the truck I want at the price I want, and only if that fails, then start compromising.
Well I already did compromise some---used Toyota trucks are ridiculously priced, so they're off the list.
Also I am NOT EVER buying a truck with 210,000 miles on it unless it is dirt dirt cheap.
I really don't want a "project" truck and I don't want a beater.
I'd rather replace tires than dig into mechanicals, and doing bodywork is out of the question.
Ironic in a way...most Benzes WITH AC in the 1970s acted as if they didn't have it. It was pretty mediocre back then, and could barely cool a Benz in 80 degree weather, and no way in Phoenix--just forget it.
Oh I like it. that's a pretty rare car. Full base euro spec. Not a luxury car at all, that's taxi grade right there. Manual everything, definitely a tex interior with inserts.
W123 250 was never sold in NA when new - one of the last MB engine series to not have fuel injection.
The Gremlins were cool cars. My grandmother bought one shortly after we bought our Hornet. We were always jealous because she had the Levi's denim seats.
Later on I had a teacher at the vo-tech that had a Gremlin with the 3-speed stick. He let me drive it all the time to pick up lunch. Man I loved that thing, plus he had the upgraded 258 straight 6.
It's unfortunate they were so junky. I was driving my Hornet one day when one of the exterior hatchback hinges broke. I had to stop the car, disassemble the hatch and put it in the back. That hatch alone probably weighed 150 lbs. I almost dropped it.
It's a lot of money for what it is, in my opinion. It would have to be near show for that price, and with some blemishes and no headliner, I doubt it will reach reserve price. I have no idea what's going on in the trunk either. There's something about this car that is very...I don't know exactly....
doesn't really do much for me. I don't care for the older corvairs, but do like the post-face lift models (65 and up?). That one does look respectable, but are they supposed to ride low in the back like that?
If nothing else, I could run over and see it (well, if I was not stranded at home all day without a car...) since that is in the next town over from me. My daughter's BF lives there. His day even owns a repair shop in town.
if Q wants an in person opinion, I could run over to see it. Just keep in mind I have no clue what I am doing with an old Corvair, but could be fun to check it out!
It's a lot of money for what it is, in my opinion. It would have to be near show for that price
Really? Huh. I mean, if no rust and runs/drives, I would think just about any car from the '60s would start at $3k. This one looks to have real nice paint and interior, too. Assuming its exactly as it looks in the pics, what would you peg the value at?
stick, I appreciate the offer, and if I was close to selling the Benz, I'd take you up on it. I dug into the MB this weekend. I finally cleared out the other bay of my garage of the crate materials from our new shower, and pulled the car in. It had a slow water leak ever since we bought it but it has recently gotten quite bad. I'll be damned if I can locate exactly where it is coming from. For a straight 6, they've got the front of that engine really buried. The water pump, steering pump, AC compressor, and overcomplicated belt tensioner form one ridiculous mass in front of the intake. The leak seems to be coming from in there somewhere, so I tried to start removing a few things to see if I could pinpoint it better. Well, there is no such thing as just removing a few things on that. The water pump is actually the last to come out after you remove the shroud, fan, 3 pulleys, tensioner assembly, and move the PS pump. And you still can't see anything. So I decided to replace the pump, hoses, and related gaskets and hope for the best. I mean, hell, what else could it be. Then, of course, there are those "while you have it apart" things like the tensioner, thermostat, and belt. So it is all apart and my $300 box of parts is in the mail.
I've also been thinking that, if I want a classic cruiser, maybe I should just keep the Benz after all. It is a bit tight on headroom for me, though. I dunno. I'll get it back on the road and try it out for a while. Although I still have to figure out what it doesn't want to stay running without my foot on the gas.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
I'd say fair market value is $2500 to $3000 tops. I'll track it on eBay and see if it meets reserve. So far, it hasn't even been bid to 1/2 of asking price, but there's still 2 days left.
If it were a 1965 Corvair 2D HT, it would have sold already at asking.
Because in the sixties and seventies two door and convertibles were what everybody wanted the four doors got neglected which makes them more desirable today.
As for that Corvair, there's just something about the paint I don't like. Hard to put my finger on it, but in some angles it makes me think of a bad repaint that just happens to look flattering if the light hits it just right.
I also suspect the car is a real roach but it's just a guess.
Actually the seller has it totally backwards...far more 4 doors were made than 2D HTs or convertibles, and the reason they are now "rare" is because they were used up and discarded.
So the most prevalent body style is now the scarcest because nobody thought them worth preserving. Same with wagons---they were beat to death and junked.
Comments
My dad had a 68 Fairlane (admittedly the 64 was much cooler looking) spec'd like the car that was mentioned - 289, 3 on the tree, zero options other than radio. Nothing. And it was white on white. Bought it out of an estate in the 90s for next to nothing, it was in really decent condition. He drove it often for a couple years, then the clutch started acting up, and he sold it. I swear I saw it a couple years later.
1963 was the year that the Fairlane expanded a bit by getting a hardtop coupe. I just presumed it got a convertible as well, but nope.
I always thought the '63 Fairlane 500 hardtop was a sweet looking little car. That year they did a really good job of aping the bigger cars, IMO.
Something else I always thought was odd...for 1965, the big Fords got vertical headlights, while the Mercury were horizontal. Yet the '65 Comet got vertical headlights, while the Fairlane's were horizontal. I wonder why they didn't try to do more of a family tie-in with the smaller cars that year?
Regardless, I thought the '65 Comet was pretty attractive, almost a bit Pontiac-ish. But the '65 Fairlane didn't work as well, IMO.
I think that buying a Jag that vintage would require some careful inspection. The cost of fixing an engine problem or, dear God, a transmission problem can be fiendishly expensive. That being said, my wife and I own a 2001 XK, which has the same drivetrain, instruments, seats (front) and so on as the advertised ones. Ours also has similar mileage. We love it, and have a couple of times made the deliberate decision to keep it rather than getting a newer one (decision was, admittedly, partially financial). Anyway, if one of those cars is in good condition it would be one sweet ride.
2009 BMW 335i, 2003 Corvette cnv. (RIP 2001 Jaguar XK8 cnv and 1985 MB 380SE [the best of the lot])
I couldn't have been more than 3 or 4 years old. After that, she bought a 72 AMC Hornet which she drove for many years, until giving to me when I turned 16.
When I was younger, a little old lady in town was the original owner of a cream yellow and black 65 Comet HT. She kept it in very nice shape, and I remember briefly talking to her about it when I was out with a friend in his 65 Ford, and we saw her in town. I wonder what became of it...that was probably around 1995, and she was pushing 80 then I'm sure.
$6000 for the one you saw? Well he'll be singing happy birthday to that car once a year.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
So the car you saw sort of whiffs 3X in a row--one strike for engine, one for 4 doors, and one for 3-speed stick.
In other words, the car has the "worst" of all possible combinations for that type.
What kind of automatic transmission did the Fairlane use? Was it still a 2-speed, or were they offering a 3-speed by then? I know Ford was a bit behind Chrysler with making 3-speed automatics more widely available, but I think they did it before Chevy. I knew a guy who had a '62 Galaxie, with a 292, and it just had a 2-speed automatic.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
I didn't want this car, particularly at anything near what they were willing to sell it for. But in addition to that, the test drive was kind of not what I expected. It felt fast, but not fun fast like a contemporary Vette or M3. I am not sure what to think.
CARFAX makes me crazy sometimes. Aside from missing things, which might be forgivable, sometimes they will ADD things after you've bought the car! Their response: "Oh, well, new data comes in all the time, not our problem".
If the stakes were a $100,000 purchase, I'd challenge that legally.
And about the driving experience, assuming the car didn't have any other maladies, an AMG is going to be more mellow than an M car or an American muscle car.
Funny thing, I mentioned that it had paintwork. The salesguy wandered off, mentioned it to the sales manager, and the sales manager went running out there and looked at it. If they missed that when they took it in, then...Wow.
Something else interesting happened. When I relayed this story to another car guy neighbor, he said he'd been fooling around with selling his 2004 E55. 91K, perfect service history, one fender got scraped in his parking lot at work and was repainted nicely. Almost new tires and brakes.
He says he thinks it is worth about $15K but he wasn't quoting me a price. I think it would be one of these things where when he finds the right car, maybe tomorrow, maybe in five months, he will call and ask if I want it. He did complain that little things go wrong here and there and the little things cost tons.
I am intrigued.
Lots of bang for the buck though. The big worry is airmatic, and the earlier (03-04) cars seem to have more issues. The key would be to see what has already been replaced. If all the trouble spots have been addressed, there are far worse ways to spend the money. 469hp and 520 lb/ft are impressive. Not a fuel miser either - probably mid-upper teens overall, low 20s on the highway, low teens in town.
Before buying, I would go over the work done, get some pics, and show it off on the mbworld or benzworld W211 AMG forums, and get some opinions form owners.
FWIW, in 1964 you could get both the 2-speed and the 3-speed. I don't know the availability by engine choice; I suspect that you could, for instance, only get the 2-speed with the base engine, but I'm not sure.
2009 BMW 335i, 2003 Corvette cnv. (RIP 2001 Jaguar XK8 cnv and 1985 MB 380SE [the best of the lot])
The engine on it was great, but everything else was falling apart. Of course it was pushing 15 years old by then.
I learned a lot about how to work on cars, and I still miss her, but she would never have got me to the university every day, 80 mile round trip.
For one, the AC didn't work. Well that's an R12 system, so a hassle to recharge and even after one spends that money, one doesn't know if there's was a big leak (there goes $200 out the window), or if the compressor is bad, or....that might necessitate conversion to R134s---and that could run up to $500-$600, if you do it right and want it really cold.
Then we have a dead gas gauge. Here's another tricky one. You have to drop the gas tank (heaven forbid ford could have put a little hatch in the bed of a pickup!) and replace the sender. But aha! If the sender wasn't the problem, then it's the gauge, and Ford gauges of that era are all integrated into one electronic/epoxied blob---so the entire instrument panel comes out to be replaced.
Bugs me. These two items are not something one can easily live without. We can get 100 degree heat and running out of gas is no fun, ever.
So a $2500 truck can easily become a $3500 truck, and then you add sales tax and California registration fees, and you're bustin' $4K.
I offered $1800 cash but no-go.
Fortunately, I have detected no California-wide used truck shortage.
I sympathize with you both on the AC issue and on the $1800 offer -- what do they think this truck is worth, anyway??
But the gas gauge? Please.
Fill the tank, zero the trip odometer, fill again after xxx miles, done.
Dropping the tank and/or monkeying with the instrument cluster is a fool's errand on a car this old.
You want 'perfect', buy a 2006 for $7k and call it good.
You should see what older Rangers look like here in the rust belt...
Harshly yours -Mathias
For you the AC is a big problem, but others, not so much.
Since fall is approaching, I'd be more concerned about the gas gauge, short term.
If you find another one in the same price range with working AC, let this one go.
But yes, tearing out the instrument panel is crazy.
I thought I'd at least give it a tremendously thorough effort to get the truck I want at the price I want, and only if that fails, then start compromising.
Well I already did compromise some---used Toyota trucks are ridiculously priced, so they're off the list.
Also I am NOT EVER buying a truck with 210,000 miles on it unless it is dirt dirt cheap.
I really don't want a "project" truck and I don't want a beater.
I'd rather replace tires than dig into mechanicals, and doing bodywork is out of the question.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
W123 250 was never sold in NA when new - one of the last MB engine series to not have fuel injection.
Later on I had a teacher at the vo-tech that had a Gremlin with the 3-speed stick. He let me drive it all the time to pick up lunch. Man I loved that thing, plus he had the upgraded 258 straight 6.
It's unfortunate they were so junky. I was driving my Hornet one day when one of the exterior hatchback hinges broke. I had to stop the car, disassemble the hatch and put it in the back. That hatch alone probably weighed 150 lbs. I almost dropped it.
I cant' remember if I showed it or not. Anyway, I believe it was listed before at $5400 BIN. Seems like a sweet looking ride for the money.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
If nothing else, I could run over and see it (well, if I was not stranded at home all day without a car...) since that is in the next town over from me. My daughter's BF lives there. His day even owns a repair shop in town.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Really? Huh. I mean, if no rust and runs/drives, I would think just about any car from the '60s would start at $3k. This one looks to have real nice paint and interior, too. Assuming its exactly as it looks in the pics, what would you peg the value at?
stick, I appreciate the offer, and if I was close to selling the Benz, I'd take you up on it. I dug into the MB this weekend. I finally cleared out the other bay of my garage of the crate materials from our new shower, and pulled the car in. It had a slow water leak ever since we bought it but it has recently gotten quite bad. I'll be damned if I can locate exactly where it is coming from. For a straight 6, they've got the front of that engine really buried. The water pump, steering pump, AC compressor, and overcomplicated belt tensioner form one ridiculous mass in front of the intake. The leak seems to be coming from in there somewhere, so I tried to start removing a few things to see if I could pinpoint it better. Well, there is no such thing as just removing a few things on that. The water pump is actually the last to come out after you remove the shroud, fan, 3 pulleys, tensioner assembly, and move the PS pump. And you still can't see anything. So I decided to replace the pump, hoses, and related gaskets and hope for the best. I mean, hell, what else could it be. Then, of course, there are those "while you have it apart" things like the tensioner, thermostat, and belt. So it is all apart and my $300 box of parts is in the mail.
I've also been thinking that, if I want a classic cruiser, maybe I should just keep the Benz after all. It is a bit tight on headroom for me, though. I dunno. I'll get it back on the road and try it out for a while. Although I still have to figure out what it doesn't want to stay running without my foot on the gas.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
If it were a 1965 Corvair 2D HT, it would have sold already at asking.
Because in the sixties and seventies two door and convertibles were what everybody wanted the four doors got neglected which makes them more desirable today.
As for that Corvair, there's just something about the paint I don't like. Hard to put my finger on it, but in some angles it makes me think of a bad repaint that just happens to look flattering if the light hits it just right.
Actually the seller has it totally backwards...far more 4 doors were made than 2D HTs or convertibles, and the reason they are now "rare" is because they were used up and discarded.
So the most prevalent body style is now the scarcest because nobody thought them worth preserving. Same with wagons---they were beat to death and junked.