Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

Mr_Shiftright

Awesome! But......pink? Maybe this is a prototype for "Mad Maxine"?

lemko

If one did a similar modification to the women's version of a the 1955-56 Dodge Custom Royal as was done to that 1959 DeSoto, could we call it a Dodge La Femme Fatale?

Mr_Shiftright

La Feminist for sure. We've come a long way from Mary Kay.

bhill2

@Mr_Shiftright said:
La Feminist for sure. We've come a long way from Mary Kay.

IIRC at least one of those La Femmes had a D500 engine in it. I would have liked to meet the lady who drove that one.

fintail

Funny, the La Femme demographic is still targeted today, just more subtly (CUV/small SUV primarily).

Mr_Shiftright

But it's much more subtle. I mean, who would dare make a pink umbrella an option on a car these days? I saw a La Femme some years ago in a wrecking yard, but alas, no umbrella. It had the script on the fenders, though--I bet some La Femme restorer would pay handsomely for that.

fintail

Subtle to those not paying attention to cars - today butch is the new femme. You must have seen that car many years ago. A concours La Femme would bring good money in one of those drunk-boomers-at-war televised auctions, I bet.

Mr_Shiftright

This one was pretty rough so I rather doubt it would be worth restoring. What's top dollar, maybe $40K? You can;t totally restore a 50s car for that.

fintail

Someone would want it, maybe make a freaky rod out of it.. And yeah, talk about unobtanium parts.

fintail

Fintail is in the shop for yearly service and quirk adjustment. Mechanic is certain the generator is failing, it's now out for rebuild. He said he checked everything including replacing belt, but it won't charge at idle speeds. Shouldn't be a huge bill. 15 years ago when it failed, it was only around $250 rebuilt and installed. Even if it was a bit more today, I'd be OK with it. Also turn signal issues - likely culprit is the switch on the column, which is insanely expensive NOS - but I know a guy with a parts car, who I will contact soon. Installation shouldn't be a big deal.

bhill2

@fintail said:
Fintail is in the shop for yearly service and quirk adjustment. Mechanic is certain the generator is failing, it's now out for rebuild. He said he checked everything including replacing belt, but it won't charge at idle speeds.

My memory is that no generator was much good at charging at idle speed. I thought that was one of the reasons that automakers went to alternators.

fintail

It's to the point where idle makes the light come on, however. The car also has an aftermarket meter, which registers clearly into discharge when running slow (but normal once the car is moving). I don't remember it doing that before a few months ago.

@bhill2 said:

bhill2

@fintail said:
It's to the point where idle makes the light come on, however. The car also has an aftermarket meter, which registers clearly into discharge when running slow (but normal once the car is moving). I don't remember it doing that before a few months ago.

Of course, that is the tell. If the behavior changes it indicates a developing problem.

fintail

I don't recall the light coming on more than very dimly (it varies in brightness) before. I think it is just wear - the generator was last rebuilt 15 years ago, I suppose it could begin to wear by now.

When it failed before, the light was just on all the time - easy to tell.

@bhill2 said:

qbrozen

Wasn't looking so bad till that last pic. OUCH.

stickguy

Run. Fast. Away.

qbrozen

well, yeah, that's pretty much terminal.

hpmctorque

@Mr_Shiftright said:
But it's much more subtle. I mean, who would dare make a pink umbrella an option on a car these days? I saw a La Femme some years ago in a wrecking yard, but alas, no umbrella. It had the script on the fenders, though--I bet some La Femme restorer would pay handsomely for that.>

It's easy to criticize the Dodge La Femme now that we know that this model didn't catch on, but I applaud it as having been a creative and bold marketing effort. Of course, no automaker would try such a thing today, but in the 1960s, when men generally decided what brand(s) and model(s) should grace the family's garage or driveway, La Femme was an attempt to exploit a niche. Okay, it failed, for the same or different reasons why it wouldn't gain traction in the post womens' lib era, but who knew then?

There are many examples of macho models, from the dawn of the automobile until now, that have been very successful. So, since such a proactive attempt to appeal to potential feminine automotive preferences hadn't been tried, I say it made sense to test it. I think the cost to the Dodge Division to create and produce the La FlameFemme was relatively minor compared with the profit potential if it had succeeded.

Can you imagine the imitations, in terms of names, colors and trim if La Femme had been wildly successful? How about a two-tone orchid, with contrasting color hood, top and trunk Pontiac Le Feminile, or a Mercury Madamme, in pink and medium grey, with a white top? Oh, the possibilities!

ab348

There are models that seem to attract a female demographic even if they are not explicitly marketed at them. I think of the older VW Rabbit/Golf Cabrio and the current VW Beetle, especially in convertible form. You even see them with accessory eyelashes!

Mr_Shiftright

STUDY
These are the 10 new cars with the highest percentage of female ownership (2011models)

Volvo S40 - 57.9%
Nissan Rogue - 56.9%
Volkswagen Eos - 56.4%
Volkswagen New Beetle - 54.6
Toyota Matrix - 54.1%
Hyundai Tucson - 54%
Honda CR-V - 53.4%
Toyota RAV4 - 54%
Nissan Juke - 52.7% (tie)
Jeep Compass - 52.7% (tie)

stickguy

I'm number 1! I'm number one!

andre1969

I think the marketing idea behind the Dodge LaFemme was that back in those days, most people were just 1-car households (or a car and a truck if you were more rural). The man usually bought the car, but he usually let the wife pick the colors.

FWIW, the LaFemme was a $143 option package, and that was back in 1955-56. Using 1956 as a baseline, that would be like $1250 today! It was also based on the top-line Custom Royal 2-door hardtop, which was a pretty pricey car anyway, for a Dodge at least. Also, it was one of those "Spring Special" option packages that were pretty common in those days, so it never was intended to be high volume.

According to Wikipedia, about 2500 were made over that two year period. Three of them had the D-500 performance engine package. Also, according to Wikipedia, Dodge really didn't promote the LaFemme, for whatever reason. No radio, tv, or newsprint ads.

hpmctorque

@andre1969 said:

Dodge really didn't promote the LaFemme, for whatever reason. >

Ah, so maybe that's why they didn't sell many. If they had wanted to test whether this idea had potential, they should have let shoppers know it existed. Probably, few women even knew about the La Femme, so Dodge didn't give that trim level a fair test. So, we'll never know whether it had legs...the concept, that is.

andre1969

Well, the concept of appealing to women definitely had legs. For example, here's an ad for the 1959 DeSoto Firedome Seville, which was one of those "Spring Special" trims

The ad definitely looks like it's targeting women...if they were shooting for a male audience, that woman would be showing more skin...even in the 50's!

Like the LaFemme, the Seville was a trim package, rather than a separate model lineup, so I don't know if there are any records on how many DeSotos were ordered with it. The Seville was available in both the Firesweep and Firedome series, and I think only on the 2- and 4-door hardtops. I'd imagine it's pretty rare. I've only seen one that I can remember, in person, and that was back in 1995. I went to look at a '58 Firesweep 4-door sedan that a guy in Maryland, up north of Baltimore, wanted to sell. This guy horded '59 DeSotos, and one of the yard ornaments out in the back 40 was a Firedome Seville.

I always wondered if GM and Mopar ever got into it, over use of the Seville nameplate? Cadillac started using it in 1956, I believe, as a top trim level of the Eldorado. That same year, DeSoto used it as a stripper level for their Firedome series.

It wouldn't be the first time though, that the same name was used by competing companies. For instance, Plymouth used the name "Suburban" in association with its wagons, for decades.

gsemike

What a different world back then. Did you know that in the 50, the help wanted ads were split into Help Wanted - Men and Help Wanted - Women? The jobs for women listed weekly pay and the masculine jobs offered yearly salary? I guess that there was an assumption that men would stick around longer.

stever

Those kinds of ads are still around in lots of countries.

andre1969

Heck, even in the 80's, it was a different world! The 80's don't seem so long ago to me, but I got a reminder of it watching "The Dukes of Hazzard" the other day. It involved a trio of female car strippers working in Hazzard County, and at one point you see them manning an auto parts store, and Waylon Jennings does a voiceover that says something like "Not what you'd expect to see in an auto parts store, huh? You'd expect to see them at home making babies and biscuits!" And this would have been early 80's at least, because Daisy had her Jeep.

hpmctorque

@andre1969 said:

DeSoto used it as a stripper level for their Firedome series.>

Hmmm, I wonder what sub-niche demographic that might have been aimed at.

Mr_Shiftright

HAHA---I don't know if such a sales pitch today would be viewed as rather sexist---I suppose you could try to market a Goth or Vampire model, or a Steampunk perhaps?

andre1969

@hpmctorque said:
Hmmm, I wonder what sub-niche demographic that might have been aimed at.

>

Wait, not THAT kind of stripper!

The 1956 DeSoto Firedome Seville might have been an experiment to see how well the public would take to a cheaper DeSoto. That was the year Chrysler corp decided that they were going to start moving Chrysler downscale a bit, to let Imperial stand more on its own. So I think they got that into motion by starting to move DeSoto downscale a bit.

They would do it in a more major way, when the cheaper, Dodge-based DeSoto Firesweep came out for '57.

I wonder how bad inflation was in the 1950's? I was just thinking...the base price on a 1953 Firedome 4-door sedan was something like $2643. By 1959, it was up to around $3234. However, in 1953 the Firedome was the top priced sedan, but in 1955 the Fireflite came out as the top priced model. However, it was priced about where the previous Firedome had been, so rather than forging into new price territory, the Fireflite simply took over for where the Firedome had been, and the Firedome was moved downscale, and took over for the old PowerMaster (which itself replaced the old DeLuxe/Custom).

By 1959, a Fireflite 4-door sedan stickered for around $3700 base price, I think, and that's really more equatable, IMO, to where the Firedome had been in '53.

So, going from $2643 to ~$3700 in just 6 model years seems like an awfully big jump to me. Unless there was more standard stuff on them in '59? A Fireflite would've had a standard automatic, whereas a '53 DeSoto would have only had Fluid Drive, at best. I think stuff like power steering/brakes, radio, heater, and so on was still optional.

Mr_Shiftright

1951- to just the beginning of 1952 and 1957-58 were the highest inflation rates in the 50s

57-58 peaked at 3.7% but 1951 was brutal with a high of 9.4%

1953 was quite low, barely breaking 1% a few months.

andre1969

It's scary how fast inflation can creep up on you. Even in these current times of seemingly low inflation, it has its effect. For instance, 1999 doesn't seem all that long ago. I bought a brand new 2000 Intrepid in November of that year, for $22,389 out the door. However, since 1999, inflation has gone up 43.1%. That would put my Intrepid at $32,000 today!

And yet, the idea of paying $32K for a new car today makes me shudder a bit, whereas back in 1999, buying that Intrepid seemed like no big deal. And I'm sure $32K would get you a lot more car today, than what that Intrepid was.

hpmctorque

@andre1969 said:

Wait, not THAT kind...>

The challenge for Dodge is to charge up sales. It needs to add an Intrepid Stripper model to its line-up for 2016. Properly decontented, of course.

andre1969

And how appropriate...you posted that at 3:18

hpmctorque

@andre1969 said:
And how appropriate...you posted that at 3:18

That was just dumb luck; can't take credit for it.

hpmctorque

@andre1969 said:
And how appropriate...you posted that at 3:18

Of course, I'm sure you picked up on the PM part of the time stamp, for Polara Magnum.

andre1969

Woulda responded earlier, but I just got out of work at 3:60

stickguy

lucky. I don't get out until 4:40, but I usually pick up a six-pack.

isellhondas

I can hear Scott Mc Kenzie....

" If you're going to San Francisco"....

You might be interested in this!

http://seattle.craigslist.org/est/cto/4581214040.html

Or maybe not...

berri

San Francisco? All you got to do is drop down across the border into Oregon and you may well find a grey haired hippie in a ponytail behind the wheel But that song always reminds me of summer!

stickguy

at least it already has a tow bar installed, since it isn't moving under it's own power.

I think it is serving the best purpose it can already. Lawn decoration.

Mr_Shiftright

No motor
No title
and...

No Chance this particular example will ever see the road again.

it might have been The Summer of Love but this van sure didn't get any of it.

fintail

Speaking of inflation, got the quote on a fintail generator rebuild (you can't just walk into a Pep Boys and get a generator for a 220SE) - $300. When it failed 15 years ago, it was something like $225. Not too bad, I guess, as I live in an expensive area. And an hour of labor to remove and replace.

isellhondas

I took another look at that VW bus and I don't think it even qualifies as a parts car.

2500.00? I think the owner must still be stoned!

stickguy

it is yard art. That can get pricey!

qbrozen

This is cute. I like that blue over red Alfa he has in his garage.

I like everything except that interior color. ew. is that gold and green?

stickguy

Yuck on the t bird. Not my thing,

I like the lancia. Just not the idea of making it legal. Or finding parts. He does have some neat stuff in the garage.

qbrozen

Ok. What IS that blue alfa in his garage??

In trying to find out, I came across this sweet 164. I wonder what that's really worth these days.

Mr_Shiftright

RE: Lancia Fulvia...price is good, headaches abound regarding legality. You could register it in California though, in terms of being smog exempt. One has to be very careful with cars from Italy. They are very clever at covering up rust.

RE: Alfa 164Q---$5,500 is all the money IMO.

isellhondas

@qbrozen said:
This is cute. I like that blue over red Alfa he has in his garage.

I like everything except that interior color. ew. is that gold and green?

Wow, what an UGLY T-Bird. No A/C and that "tap" in the engine is probably the sound of a rod about to be thrown! No way!