Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

fintail

Doesn't look beyond redemption

andre1969

be the little unitized Cherokee based thing that first came out around '82, or the big, old BOF monster that's been around since the 60's...basically the SUV version of the '76 Jeep pickup my uncle had? I never took a picture specifically of that truck, but it's in the background of this old pic, taken around 1990.

IIRC, Jeep was using the name on both vehicles around that time. I couldn't care less about the little one, but I think those big old AMC-powered ones (I think they were using 360's by this time) were cool. I think they do have a bit of a cult following.

british_rover

The unibody cherokees were good too. I drove one all through HS and half of college before I flipped it into a stand of trees at 60 mph and walked away with only scratches and bruises. Had 140,000 miles on it and the insurance company still gave me almost 6k for it.

Mr_Shiftright

the 1946 Pontiac's redemptive qualities would depend a lot on the interior, which we can't see. If it's the typical ripped up, mouse-infested mohair with mold and water stains and stuffing sticking out, that's a lot of work to fix. Problem is, even all cleaned up and painted, they aren't worth much. I think it's an ohv engine though...that's better than a flathead, which are so anemic for modern roads.

au94

two words for what to do with the Pontiac: Lead Sled.

fintail

Yeah...the first thing I thought when I saw it was "Monster Garage"

lilengineerboy

Fintail,
That is similar to my dream project car:
The UR-Quattro
This started the AWD Turbo sports car in the US.

Mr_Shiftright

Yeah you could slam it, put in a Chevy crate motor, some cheap fancy wheels and seat covers and there you go...bad taste on a budget!

Problem with 1946 cars is that they are actually 1941 cars hauled out after World War II...and the problem with 1941 cars is that technically they are basically 1934 cars...so you are really dealing with a fairly primitive piece of machinery here...and this continued through 1948...American cars started getting modern around 1949, and took a great leap forward in 1955...then staggered into addiction and rehab in 1958, emerging clean, sober and healthy around 1963. :P

andre1969

looks like there were two engines available in 1946...a 93 hp 239 CID inline-6 and a 107 hp 249 CID inline-8. And keep in mind that's GROSS hp, not net!

Still, I guess it could keep up with modern traffic. I had a buddy who had a 1950 DeSoto Custom that had 112 hp from a 236 or so inline-6. Flathead, too. It wasn't much from, say, 0-60, but it actually didn't have much trouble merging onto a highway, and had no trouble cruising 65-75 even on the hills. Basically, it wouldn't hold up traffic unless you had people trying to drag race! I'm guessing they were geared much better back then to take advantage of what little power there was, though. Probably adequate around town and at moderate highway cruising, but probably a very low top speed?

Mr_Shiftright

Those 40s flathead sixes are soooooo gutless...but probably no worse than a Mercedes 240D or 300D I guess....

xwesx

The Wagoneer was just a trim level on the Cherokee by 1986. The Grand Wagoneer was the "old BOF monster that's been around since the 60's."

For me, that $100 wagoneer would be (if in relatively decent mechanical condition outside of the engine - could care less about body)a stripper 4x4 to take out hunting or playing. $2000 could put it out and about if it had good axles, transfer case, brakes, etc.

I'd pitch both of them in the crusher though if I had the choice of "today or never."

Mr_Shiftright

true...reputation wise, neither one is exactly a medal winner....

andre1969

I actually like that '86 Grand Wagoneer on eBay!

stickguy

not sure about the Jeep, but what a lousy set of pictures.

Real nice house in the background though (looks like a plantation manor house!) don't even want to think about the price differential between where it is and if it was in my area in NJ!

xwesx

By the looks of it, I would say that house is within a couple years of new. Funny how "retro" seeps into so many markets. But, as far as cost-effectiveness and heating efficiency go in housing, it is hard to beat a box!

You're right, those photos are horrid. I did not even look at them the first time around; I was just looking for a visual example for Andre!

fintail

I've never minded that style of Jeep either. That was a good functional design. I'd buy the mintest one I could find though, no use dealing with worn examples. There are often nutjobs in Hemmings offering immaculate ones for big money.

The house in the background is newer I am sure...a variation of a McMansion or maybe an uppity tract house. But at least no face brick only on the front.

fintail

Speaking of those Wagoneers, here's a nice one

Here's an older one that might not be too awful

lemko

... when I was a kid, I had some old Tonka trucks that looked just like the classic 1963 Jeep Wagoneers and pickups with the tall narrow vertical grill with the single headlights and round auxilliary grilles.

andre1969

might not be too troublesome. I'm not positive, but I don't think trucks got catalytic convertors until a few years after 1975. And for some reason, AMC in general was able to get a delay on putting convertors on their cars. I remember my friends' '76-77 Hornet station wagon didn't have a convertor, and came from the factory that way. One time the guy at the emissions station gave them static for it, and they had to get documentation from AMC, which thankfully was still around at the time! I dunno if Chrysler would've been able to help them out if it was after the takeover.

And with a 401 it might be pretty gutsy. I recall my uncle's '76 jeep pickup wasn't bad, even with just the 360.

As for that house in the background of the other, typical McMansion, I'm guessing. Probably thrown up quick and on the cheap, and the foundation will crack, those columns will pull away, vinyl siding will trap moisture, etc, and it'll end up with mold damage! :surprise:

Back in the 60's, Levitt and Sons (the company who pretty much invented the cookie cutter subdivision) built a community near here, and one model was called the "Manor House" or something like that. It was really just a 4-bedroom 2.5 bath colonial with a big roof overhang, and columns across the front. The columns didn't actually support the roof overhang, though. It was common for the columns to sink into the ground, pulling loose from the roof!

For some reason, they never could really fix the problem, at least not cheaply, so very few of that style home were actually built.

martian

As "the Man" you know quite a bit about the market for restoration cars. again, I pose to you the infamous "EDSEL". if you wander over to WWW.EDSEL.COM
you learn a lot of interesting facts..like fewer than 6000 of these cars are known to exist. Granted, there is nothing terribly attractive about these cars (once decribed as an "oldsmobile pushing a toilet"), but surely they are of historic interest. Suppose you bought and restored on..and kept it in a garage for the next 25 years-would it be worth anything at that point? I can well imagine that most of those poorly restored 6000-odd Edsels will be reduced to rust and scrap by that point-so can i make big bucks by restoring one of these monsters?

andre1969

Ford built something like 110,000 Edsels total for '58-60. IIRC, around 63K were built in '58, 45K in '59, and 3K in '60.

I'd imagine that if 6,000 are still around, which makes for a survival rate of something like 5.5%, that's actually a lot of cars, as far as these things go.

I think it's the '58's that are considered the most desireable, because they were the most far-out, with more grotesque styling, that Speed Racer pushbutton in the middle of the steering wheel for the tranny gears, and monstrous 361 and 410 CID V-8's. Consumer Reports tested a '58 Edsel, but I forget the series. From 0-60, it was the fastest car they had ever tested, up to that point.

The '59's were really toned down, in looks, size, and peformance. And the '60 is almost respectable looking, coming off seeming like a copy of a '59 Pontiac.

I'd also imagine that most of the Edsels these days that are worth saving are being garaged, preserved, and treasured by their owners. They're not being driven as just old used cars, being run into the ground. Now I'm sure there are plenty that are in marginal condition right now, just sitting around, that will ultimately be scrapped.

But IMO you'd probaby be best off just finding a nice one and holding onto it, than trying to restore one that needs a lot of work. If you're trying to do this for an investment though, you'd really be better off putting the money in I-bonds, or a money market account with Emigrant Bank or something. Most people don't make a big killing fooling around with old cars.

fintail

I think there have been 6000 Edsels on ebay in the past year

Too bad that first Wagoneer link is gone, it was a nice one.

This looks like it could be a nice enough beast with a couple hours of detailing

lemko

Holy smoke! I'm almost tempted to put in a bid! I had a 1979 Oldsmobile Ninety-Eight Regency with the big 403 V-8. This '84 most likely has a 307 V-8. Darn! Where were these cars when I bought my '88 Park Ave back in November?

Mr_Shiftright

The old rule of car collecting applies: "unloved when new, unloved when old".

Buy a 5% CD and you'll be much better off, and a CD isn't painful to look at either.

andre1969

how would the more desireable styles of an Edsel price out at these days? Like the hardtop coupes and convertibles? Would they be comparable to other late 50's cars, or more, or less? I know they're not going to be in the same league as a '58 Chevy Impala, or a Chrysler 300D, DeSoto Adventurer, or Pontiac Bonneville, but what about something less coveted, like a regular '58 DeSoto or Chrysler, Mercury, or Pontiac?

Don't '58 Oldsmobiles and Buicks have a bit of cult following, simply because they're so over-the-top?

Mr_Shiftright

58 Buicks/Olds/ Edsels -- there are people who collect the grotesque, absolutely--they're like Edsels, etc....a slim market with only the very best, rarest open cars getting anyone excited. Here again I'd think the vast majority of these cars, in good shape, deal in the under $12,000 range for coupes and sedans as low as $3,000....but with low miles, fully restored, pristine, gorgeous converts being an exception. They can bring decent money.

Prices for these cars would compare to a Desoto Adventurer--that's also a slim market car. But you're right, a '58 Chevy convertible would bring another 35% easy and a '58 300D even more. They are in a different class than the Desoto, at least in collector's eyes. A 300D can push $90,000....you'll not see such prices for a Desoto I don't think.

fintail

These cars are all out here on the west coast.

For the past couple weeks just about every day I have seen a nice looking light blue ca. 1975 Sedan Deville drive by my place...I think someone is using it as a driver.

fintail

Another oddball old Audi pops up

Mr_Shiftright

Audis are extremely expensive to fix. New clutch for a 200K mile, $900 Audi? Hmmmm....marginal, very marginal...I'd give it a "maybe". I'd have to see it.

fintail

Very basic Impala

The birdhouse is a nice touch

Mr_Shiftright

Gee a B-12" engine...must have vitamins in it.

Car's a wreck...worth $250 maybe for a few spare parts.

fintail

I am sure this would make perfect sense if you lived in Vegas

I would have drooled over this when I was 16

Another "golden anniversary" Pontiac

Mr_Shiftright

the '63 Impala SS is worth restoring perhaps....looks like he has a #4 car there, so $9,250 is a tad high but price is negotiable. Probably $6,500--$7,000 is buying it right. Rust is always a downer as you don't know where else it is lurking.

fintail

"Antique"? uhh no...and it appears someone was smoking something when they painted it. Those bumpers should look great in a couple years

Doesn't get much weirder than this

andre1969

the golden anniversary Pontiac? I can't get that link to come up.

stickguy

not sure if the paint will hold up, but to me, the MGB looks better that way than if it still had the black rubber bumpers. Of course, it would look even better if you took them off and dropped the suspension.

That Volvo is neat. Looks like a poor man's Unimog. And you certainly won't see yourself on a regular basis. Not sure I would want to find parts though.

qbrozen

Even if they didn't screw up the paintjob, a rubber-bumper MG ain't worth $8200. I've seen REALLY nice chrome bumper cars for way less.

fintail

Ooops, here's the 'golden anniversary' Pontiac

On the MGB indeed...it looks fine for now...but either take them off or find an earlier car.

stickguy

I wouldn't buy one in any case, but if I was in the market, I would certainly get an older one and upgrade it, rather than a crappy later one that I had to retrofit.

stickguy

I like it, Might take a flyer for that money, depending on the nature of the slight rust.

I am a sucker for a stick shift.

Also makes me think of Jim Rockford when i see one of these. I liked that show, but maybe it was for the cars.

qbrozen

Its funny (i can't remember if i've posted this before), but the guy I paid to paint my Alfa also painted all the rubber on the car (using his artistic license without my consent). Thankfully, my car is black, so its not a terrible atrocity that he did it ... and it all really needed replacing anyway. So I can sort of forgive what was done to this MGB, as it may not have been the owner's fault. Too bad its so painfully obvious on a white car, though.

british_rover

I like that very cool and kind fo unimogish.

Mr_Shiftright

You're right, '76 MGBs are god-awful cars. You can make a good car out of them but it wouldn't be cheap. They have neither good handling, decent acceleration or much reliability or any good looks left---all the good parts of the earlier Bs were just left out completely.

Value of that tarted up puppy? At very best, $5,500.

oregonboy

Here's a Civic with "Lots of potential" (or lots of something???) :P

http://seattle.craigslist.org/car/128850478.html

stickguy

Yup, I like my used cars "some assemply required"

If you are going to get that deep in a project like this, you need to bite the bullet, get the harness (I assume the wiring harness is different?) and whatever else it needs to get running, and at least put the dash back together.

Still think it would have been cheaper to just buy a decent Si, or do some engine upgrades on the standard Civic, but that's just me.

Can't see how this bastardized mess is going to be worth what it cost to do, unless it was all a backyard project, you had a base Civic with a sick engine, and found a wrecked Si for cheap.

And beer. Lots of beer.

british_rover

Why would you take a 91 civic and then swap in a 91 CRX SI motor I mean unless you got the CRX motor for free that is dumb. For about the same amount of trouble you could have swapped in any number of newer much better motors from later civics.

For a lot more money, time and trouble you could have made it a real beast and put in a JDM H22.

ghulet

http://chicago.craigslist.org/car/129876605.html

The price, on its face, sounds fair enough, but then again, I'm always leary of someone claiming an otherwise decent/great car might need 'this or that', but not having been able to figure out the exact problem. I mean, old LS400s aren't exotics, so this could be scary. Oh, what was the last time you saw an LS400 with a cloth interior?

fintail

IIRC some of the very very first LS cars had cloth.

There has to be something else wrong with it, if the owner is unwilling or unable to fix the smallish sounding problem he lists. If thats the only problem, that rig could be worth it for a backyard mechanic to fix for personal use maybe.

oregonboy

Interesting that he shows a photo of the back seat but not the driver's seat. Why could that be?

james

xwesx

Well, those electrical bugs can be hell to find, but I'd buy it if I could pop the hood and start the engine by jumping the starter. Otherwise, the problem runs deeper than the owner says and definitely more trouble than it is worth. Would $1500 be worth it for a decent parts car?