I probably would, too but if I HAD to have a Fiat 124, it would be an FI model. Actually value of an '82, clean as can be, 53K miles? Perhaps $5,500--$6,000. I think they are more attractive than whale-tail Alfas. But gimme a 1990 on up Alfa Spider without the rubber butt and I'll give you the camshafts to make it run right...
How about getting newer still with a Pininfarina Azzura? When Fiat bailled out of the US, Pininfarina kept selling the Azzura and Bertone the X1/9. Pininfarina in Cali (that was my first link post, I dunno if its going to work)">
Some of the "anniversary" GM models are worth a bit more than their normal counterparts but I can't recall anything that has been dubbed with the fatal "collector edition" label ever being worth two cents more than its normal counterparts. I could be wrong but nothing comes to mind.
The reason is obvious...supply (usually a LOT) vs. demand (usually not much).
I mean, that Town Car looks nice for the price for what it is, but the 'Collector's Edition' part should be the least of anyone's cause for concern or interest in this car. After all, '70s Lincolns had a million different 'editions', so another label is especially meaningless in this case.
...I don't know why I have a soft-spot for these McGarrett mobiles, but this one is interesting, if only because it's a high end model, a strange color, and on how many mid-priced cars in 1968 (or even high-end) could one purchase dual power seats? I've never even seen a '68 Caddy with those, though they're not that uncommon on Marks and Imperials of the era.
My 93 LeSabre is a "90th Anniversary Edition". What an odd anniversary to commemorate. They must have had doubts about making it to 100. When can I expect it to start going up in value??? ;-)
would Oldsmobile have had in 1982? Their 85th? My '82 Cutlass had some commemorative literature in the paperwork that was in the glovebox, and I think the owner's manual even made mention of it. My Cutlass was just a base model, but I think the Brougham might have had a special hood ornament and other badging.
I also remember Oldsmobile making a big deal out of their 90th anniversary. Evidently, George Burns turned 90 the same year Olds did, and they used him in some advertising.
My Grandma's '85 LeSabre Limited was a "Collector's Edition". I think technically, all Limiteds that year were. I doubt too many people are collecting them, although they were good cars, and had a nice, clean, upscale look to them. But it was still just a car, and not a museum piece. Still, at the time, the end of the line for the "traditional" full-sized Buick. That type of car was really coming back into demand around 1984-85, but because of CAFE regs, and designs GM had set into motion when everybody thought gasoline would be $3.00 per gallon and in short supply forever, it was the type of car GM was phasing out. As I recall, the LeSabre was the #18 selling car in the US in 1985, and the vast majority of them were Collector's Editions, so it served its purpose. Remember, the auto makers weren't building these things with the thought that we'd give a damn about them 20-30 years later. All they cared is that the new car buying public wanted them.
So, if nothing else, the "Collector's Edition" stuff gave them a little more to hype up at the time for new car buyers. Incidentally, when the '96 Roadmaster went out of production, they ran a "Collector's Edition" series. They still had a bunch of hood ornaments left over from the '85 LeSabre, in storage all those years, that they used up for it. Oh, and the Collector's Edition LeSabre did come with a nice package of literature, bound in a simulated leather case, which showcased the LeSabre over the years. Reading it, you'd almost think that 1985 was the end of the LeSabre nameplate itself, and not just the end of the B-body coupe and sedan.
Those Collector's Edition Continentals back in the late 70's did make sense at the time, as there were still a lot of people that wanted a true mastodon like that, and swore they'd never buy a downsized car. However, the auto makers just couldn't build those huge beasts anymore. Lincoln especially definitely got their money's worth out of them, when they were new.
From what I've heard, another special edition from the 70's that equated to a ton of profit was the 1978 Diamond Jubilee Mark V. Supposedly they stickered for around $20,000, in an era where a base Mark V was around $12K. The Diamond Jubilee may not be worth all the much more today (although don't tell that to my buddy who's infatuated with them), but at the time, it was pure marketing genius.
It's worth an extra $2,000 or so over a base coupe (whoopee).
Actually Mark III, IV & Vs are holding fairly steady value and have bottomed out in depreciation...but they are a hard, hard sell, especially if you don't live near Florida or Las Vegas. Easily worth double of a Mark VI. My appraisal would be that the best V in the world is worth maybe $8,000, and a Jubilee $10K. But we are talking stunning cars here. Any glitches, damage, high miles, deduct massively.
Oldsmobile's 85th anniversary was indeed in 1982. The company was founded in 1897.
Speaking of Olds, I spotted an '87 Cutlass Supreme sedan for sale up the road from my neighborhood. It's advertised as a 2-owner car with 89k miles. Unfortunately the ad said it had the 3.8-liter V-6...a dreaded engine. Andre were there any major differences between the '87 motor and the one in your '82 Cutlass?
Ah, I see you remember the horror stories I told of my '82 Cutlass Supreme! :surprise: My understanding is that the 231 got an entirely new, stronger block for 1985. The main reason for this was because the turbo version was really jumping in horsepower, and the block needed to be beefed up. The more mundane versions benefitted from this stronger block, as well. I think the new block also eliminated all of the problems the older design had with lubrication.
Supposedly the old block had all sorts of right angles in the oil passages, which would cut down the oil pressure, especially as the engines became older and the passages became more clogged.
I'm not sure what else changed between '82 and '87 in the 231. The fuel injected versions got more powerful, going from 125 to 150 hp for 1986, and soon thereafter to 170 hp, but the 2-bbl carb, which was used in the Cutlass Supreme, had 110 hp right up through the end.
So an '87 Cutlass Supreme would probably be reliable enough, just slow. Still, if you really wanted something like this, I'd hold out for a V-8.
No idea what these are worth if perfect, but it looks like a decent foundation if you can do the work yourself. Although a hand made gas tank might bive one pause...
On second thought, might be better to buy it after someone else spends 20K restoring a car that is only worth 10K when it is done.
how hard it would be to find a "proper" gas tank for that Caddy? Perhaps any '67-68 B/C body tank would work? Station wagons might be a bit different, and there were some significant changes in '66 and '69, so those might not work. Still, I don't think a gas tank should be TOO hard to find. It would probably be harder to find one for something like my '79 NYer.
is when I needed new ball joints for my '67 Catalina, I had to get them specifically for a 1967-68 full-sized Pontiac. NOT a '66, NOT a '69, and NOT a Chevy, Buick, or Olds. That's one thing I missed about Mopars...they'd use one part and stick to it...for DECADES!!
I don't know if my '68 Dart and '57 DeSoto use the same ball joint (I'd actually hope not, considering the DeSoto has about 1000 lb on the Dart!), but I do remember them being the same price in the Kanter catalog!
Also, even though that '67 Caddy is a C-body and my Catalina is a B-body, the shape of the convertible top looks very similar to me. Now in 4-door models I know the C-body was larger inside, with a correspondingly longer roof...but perhaps on the 2-door styles, like the hardtop and convertible, the interiors were the same size, so they could use the same structural parts in them?
Old Cadillacs are VERY expensive and difficult to restore as compared to a Mustang. That's why most of the old Cadillacs, unless they are pristine survivors, will be junked....value isn't even close to cost of restoration unless they are 50s convertibles....and even then it's touch and go. There's no big aftermarket for Cadillac...you have to hunt down every little piece and there are a LOT of pieces.
Nah, unfortunately I missed it, but I would've gotten a kick out of seeing something like that! I wonder if now my '76 Grand LeMans would benefit from some sort of "halo" effect? :P
I wonder how one of these would perform with the 403? I've read road tests of the Can Am with the 400-4bbl and 200 hp (the 403/185 hp was used in California, high altitude areas, and other regions that were stricter on smog requirements), and it did 0-60 in around 8.6 seconds as I recall.
I guess when you consider the time, that's not bad for something that weighed over two tons and only had 200 hp and a 3-speed automatic!
Glad I'm not the only one who caught the Can-Am on the B-J auction. I have to say that, even for the 70's, there are a lot of other cars that I would be interested in owning before that Can-Am, and I bet I could do it for less the $20K!
Did you happen to catch the 70's Jag XJ-C coupe? I caught the end of it. I guess it had been modified/hot rodded, but I couldn't really tell what had been done with the little bit I caught. I'm one of the few probably who likes the XJ coupes, but I do not like the rubber bumpers (UGH). Looks so much better with the early models chrome bumpers.
the XJ had a 383 stuffed into it .. was owned by a semi-famous guy who used to build and race boats.
stickguy - last night was the first night for the new episodes; they go until Sunday.
and yes, my wife thinks I'm strange too. I told her that if our ship ever came in I was getting an idea of what kind of money I'd have to spend for a toy.
(BTW, do any of you do the fantasy bidding? I don't, but just for grins, I guessed $64K for that '68 Belvedere GTX, which is exactly what it sold for!)
Speaking of BJ, my cousin had a '69 Camaro RS when he was 16 (this was in 1981) - 350 with a 3-speed auto, white with black stripes and black interior. At the time, it was just an old used car. Now, it would probably be worth many 10's of thousands of dollars at the auction.
69 Camaro -- well not "many" tens of thousands...an RS as a clean driver, maybe $22K, show car $35K, add a few thousand more for RS/SS 350/300HP. The Z28's the one to have in '69 or the SS 396.
partly because they ARE ugly! In fact, nowadays I'll often say a car has a "1961 DeSoto complex" when it has a double grille effect, like the Aztek, where the upper grille has nothing in common, stylistically, with the lower grille. Often cars that have a regular grille between the headlight, but then have a sub-grille/lower air intake get this afflication as well. It's actually very common on "Type-R" cars! :P
Years ago, I read somewhere (National DeSoto Club, I think) that the 1961 DeSoto actually had the best survival rate of any year DeSoto. In total numbers, the 1950, 1953 and 1955-56 are very common, but those were also good years for DeSoto when they were in production.
I guess there were just a lot of people who wanted the last DeSoto. Last time I checked a price guide, I think the '61 is worth a bit more than the '60. The '60 is a better car though, as it's WAY better looking, and has either a 295 hp 361 or 305 hp 383 (a 330 hp cross-ram was optional), while the 1961 had a toned-down 265 hp 361.
It's not worth that kind of money, no way not even close. It's maybe a $100K car if it all checks out perfectly. It's not that rare, they made around 4,500 LS6s that year. It's not like some of the Mopar Hemis where they made 10 or 12 of a certain car.
RENAULT -- "soon to be" a classic? LOL! Gee, he's been waiting 35 years already!
....I'll never understand how anyone can ponder spending $800k on a freakin' CHEVELLE, I don't care how 'rare' or what engine it has....it's a mass-produced, 1970s domestic.
How 'bout this? It's bidding is pretty healthy for what is basically a basket case, but how many '65 Starfire 4-speed convertibles can there be left in the world (total production something like 2200)? Seller says it has a 455, which is not factory correct--these came with a 425--and a Muncie transmission, but then goes on to say the engine was 'gone through in the '70s, basically leading one to believe that it's original. Also, the assertion that it's only 'one of 4 all power Starfires built' is wrong--maybe the seller meant 'one of 4 four-speed convertibles built (all Starfires had power steering, brakes and windows, for one, and most, if not all, had a power seat, so the 'all power' thing is just blather); in any case, this is an ill-informed seller, but the car at least is interesting and rare. It looks complete, straight, and appears the 4-speed is original, judging by the console with the shift pattern plate. Anyway:
I thought the LS6 convertible was one of those low production "holy grail" cars, but I honestly can't keep up with that stuff.
Call me silly, but I never could quite figure out why someone would pay 2-3X as much for a model with one version of an engine over another, when there wasn't that much difference in power or performance.
Of course, I'm not thinking like a collector, where sometimes rare is more important than what it does. I doubt I could tell a ram air III for a ram air IV without having the subtle differences pointed out, certainly not by driving it. LS5 and LS6, probably the same deal.
I thought the LS6 convertible was one of those low production "holy grail" cars, but I honestly can't keep up with that stuff.
Call me silly, but I never could quite figure out why someone would pay 2-3X as much for a model with one version of an engine over another, when there wasn't that much difference in power or performance.
Of course, I'm not thinking like a collector, where sometimes rare is more important than what it does. I doubt I could tell a ram air III for a ram air IV without having the subtle differences pointed out, certainly not by driving it. LS5 and LS6, probably the same deal.
I like when Peter the host goes over one of the cars they are restoring, and points out the subtle differences between the models (stuff like an extra screw on a RA IV model) that they obsess over.
That's how I learned that a 1970 GTO has 4 different shades of flat black paint on it, depending on the piece.
Comments
The reason is obvious...supply (usually a LOT) vs. demand (usually not much).
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1968-Mercury-Parklane-Brougham-very-restorable_W0- QQitemZ4604916633QQcategoryZ6882QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
I also remember Oldsmobile making a big deal out of their 90th anniversary. Evidently, George Burns turned 90 the same year Olds did, and they used him in some advertising.
My Grandma's '85 LeSabre Limited was a "Collector's Edition". I think technically, all Limiteds that year were. I doubt too many people are collecting them, although they were good cars, and had a nice, clean, upscale look to them. But it was still just a car, and not a museum piece. Still, at the time, the end of the line for the "traditional" full-sized Buick. That type of car was really coming back into demand around 1984-85, but because of CAFE regs, and designs GM had set into motion when everybody thought gasoline would be $3.00 per gallon and in short supply forever, it was the type of car GM was phasing out. As I recall, the LeSabre was the #18 selling car in the US in 1985, and the vast majority of them were Collector's Editions, so it served its purpose. Remember, the auto makers weren't building these things with the thought that we'd give a damn about them 20-30 years later. All they cared is that the new car buying public wanted them.
So, if nothing else, the "Collector's Edition" stuff gave them a little more to hype up at the time for new car buyers. Incidentally, when the '96 Roadmaster went out of production, they ran a "Collector's Edition" series. They still had a bunch of hood ornaments left over from the '85 LeSabre, in storage all those years, that they used up for it. Oh, and the Collector's Edition LeSabre did come with a nice package of literature, bound in a simulated leather case, which showcased the LeSabre over the years. Reading it, you'd almost think that 1985 was the end of the LeSabre nameplate itself, and not just the end of the B-body coupe and sedan.
Those Collector's Edition Continentals back in the late 70's did make sense at the time, as there were still a lot of people that wanted a true mastodon like that, and swore they'd never buy a downsized car. However, the auto makers just couldn't build those huge beasts anymore. Lincoln especially definitely got their money's worth out of them, when they were new.
From what I've heard, another special edition from the 70's that equated to a ton of profit was the 1978 Diamond Jubilee Mark V. Supposedly they stickered for around $20,000, in an era where a base Mark V was around $12K. The Diamond Jubilee may not be worth all the much more today (although don't tell that to my buddy who's infatuated with them), but at the time, it was pure marketing genius.
Actually Mark III, IV & Vs are holding fairly steady value and have bottomed out in depreciation...but they are a hard, hard sell, especially if you don't live near Florida or Las Vegas. Easily worth double of a Mark VI. My appraisal would be that the best V in the world is worth maybe $8,000, and a Jubilee $10K. But we are talking stunning cars here. Any glitches, damage, high miles, deduct massively.
http://chicago.craigslist.org/car/125815114.html
Speaking of Olds, I spotted an '87 Cutlass Supreme sedan for sale up the road from my neighborhood. It's advertised as a 2-owner car with 89k miles. Unfortunately the ad said it had the 3.8-liter V-6...a dreaded engine. Andre were there any major differences between the '87 motor and the one in your '82 Cutlass?
hahahahahahahahahaha
If that's not a pimpmobile, I don't know what is. Embarassing, but almost fascinating in its badness.
Supposedly the old block had all sorts of right angles in the oil passages, which would cut down the oil pressure, especially as the engines became older and the passages became more clogged.
I'm not sure what else changed between '82 and '87 in the 231. The fuel injected versions got more powerful, going from 125 to 150 hp for 1986, and soon thereafter to 170 hp, but the 2-bbl carb, which was used in the Cutlass Supreme, had 110 hp right up through the end.
So an '87 Cutlass Supreme would probably be reliable enough, just slow. Still, if you really wanted something like this, I'd hold out for a V-8.
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On second thought, might be better to buy it after someone else spends 20K restoring a car that is only worth 10K when it is done.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
I don't know if my '68 Dart and '57 DeSoto use the same ball joint (I'd actually hope not, considering the DeSoto has about 1000 lb on the Dart!), but I do remember them being the same price in the Kanter catalog!
Also, even though that '67 Caddy is a C-body and my Catalina is a B-body, the shape of the convertible top looks very similar to me. Now in 4-door models I know the C-body was larger inside, with a correspondingly longer roof...but perhaps on the 2-door styles, like the hardtop and convertible, the interiors were the same size, so they could use the same structural parts in them?
Series II
A nice Limo too it looks good but not really a project car I guess.
Limo
Is this real?
Is the third link supposed to be something else?
They had a pristine '77 Pontiac LeMans CanAm Sport Coupe that went for north of $20K! I think the car only had 4-5K on it. 403 with 185HP, IIRC.
The hosts were commenting on how few '70's era cars come up for sale at these auctions, as they were so emasculated by emission controls.
I wonder how one of these would perform with the 403? I've read road tests of the Can Am with the 400-4bbl and 200 hp (the 403/185 hp was used in California, high altitude areas, and other regions that were stricter on smog requirements), and it did 0-60 in around 8.6 seconds as I recall.
I guess when you consider the time, that's not bad for something that weighed over two tons and only had 200 hp and a 3-speed automatic!
And yes, my wife thinks I am strange.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Did you happen to catch the 70's Jag XJ-C coupe? I caught the end of it. I guess it had been modified/hot rodded, but I couldn't really tell what had been done with the little bit I caught. I'm one of the few probably who likes the XJ coupes, but I do not like the rubber bumpers (UGH). Looks so much better with the early models chrome bumpers.
stickguy - last night was the first night for the new episodes; they go until Sunday.
and yes, my wife thinks I'm strange too. I told her that if our ship ever came in I was getting an idea of what kind of money I'd have to spend for a toy.
(BTW, do any of you do the fantasy bidding? I don't, but just for grins, I guessed $64K for that '68 Belvedere GTX, which is exactly what it sold for!)
Speaking of BJ, my cousin had a '69 Camaro RS when he was 16 (this was in 1981) - 350 with a 3-speed auto, white with black stripes and black interior. At the time, it was just an old used car. Now, it would probably be worth many 10's of thousands of dollars at the auction.
Loved that Edsel wagon, too.
Well, it's cheap
A whale, but a nice whale
Crazy person
Years ago, I read somewhere (National DeSoto Club, I think) that the 1961 DeSoto actually had the best survival rate of any year DeSoto. In total numbers, the 1950, 1953 and 1955-56 are very common, but those were also good years for DeSoto when they were in production.
I guess there were just a lot of people who wanted the last DeSoto. Last time I checked a price guide, I think the '61 is worth a bit more than the '60. The '60 is a better car though, as it's WAY better looking, and has either a 295 hp 361 or 305 hp 383 (a 330 hp cross-ram was optional), while the 1961 had a toned-down 265 hp 361.
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Not sure why it would be more valuable for having spent years as a local drag race car (hey, I used to race my parents Horizon, does that count?)
Looks sharp, but I wonder if it is the original engine? did they keep it all those years when it was running a race motor?
But, it is the real deal. After all, the owner said so!
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
RENAULT -- "soon to be" a classic? LOL! Gee, he's been waiting 35 years already!
How 'bout this? It's bidding is pretty healthy for what is basically a basket case, but how many '65 Starfire 4-speed convertibles can there be left in the world (total production something like 2200)? Seller says it has a 455, which is not factory correct--these came with a 425--and a Muncie transmission, but then goes on to say the engine was 'gone through in the '70s, basically leading one to believe that it's original. Also, the assertion that it's only 'one of 4 all power Starfires built' is wrong--maybe the seller meant 'one of 4 four-speed convertibles built (all Starfires had power steering, brakes and windows, for one, and most, if not all, had a power seat, so the 'all power' thing is just blather); in any case, this is an ill-informed seller, but the car at least is interesting and rare. It looks complete, straight, and appears the 4-speed is original, judging by the console with the shift pattern plate. Anyway:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1965-oldsmobile-starfire-convertible_W0QQitemZ460- - - 5061215QQcategoryZ6391QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Call me silly, but I never could quite figure out why someone would pay 2-3X as much for a model with one version of an engine over another, when there wasn't that much difference in power or performance.
Of course, I'm not thinking like a collector, where sometimes rare is more important than what it does. I doubt I could tell a ram air III for a ram air IV without having the subtle differences pointed out, certainly not by driving it. LS5 and LS6, probably the same deal.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Call me silly, but I never could quite figure out why someone would pay 2-3X as much for a model with one version of an engine over another, when there wasn't that much difference in power or performance.
Of course, I'm not thinking like a collector, where sometimes rare is more important than what it does. I doubt I could tell a ram air III for a ram air IV without having the subtle differences pointed out, certainly not by driving it. LS5 and LS6, probably the same deal.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
That's how I learned that a 1970 GTO has 4 different shades of flat black paint on it, depending on the piece.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.