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Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

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  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited November 2014
    I got stranded several times riding shotgun in the late 60s in a friend's Cutlass Supreme (likely was a first generation but it might have been a '67 or '68).

    Seems like the fuel system was always going haywire on it.

    My first car that wasn't a family "loaner" was a 1974 Jeep CJ-5.
  • ab348ab348 Member Posts: 20,330
    gbatt said:

    LOL... Yes, I always read your posts with interest as well... We had a 350 4BBL in it. It was a pretty good runner for the early 80's. Most soccer mom's minivans would be able to slaughter it in the 1/4 mile now

    Yeah, mine is a 350 4bbl also and though it sounds great, it really isn't that quick. The 2.78 rear end cripples it.
    Ironically, I am encouraging my wife to consider the Cadillac ATS when its time to replace her car... How has your experience been with yours? Ummm... to keep it in the spirit of the thread, does it perform better than your Cutlass? ;)
    I've had the ATS for a month now and I love it. It just drives so well. I've gotten a surprising number of comments on it too. It really is a 2+2 and I am hoping that the smallish trunk won't prove to be an issue over time. That seems to be the main drawback. If you get into the buying process take the time to understand the various models, options, and equipment levels. It is very complex and not everything makes sense.

    2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6

  • gsemikegsemike Member Posts: 2,419
    I'm bad at picking a car apart based on an ad. This looks really nice to me. Besides that it's a restomod, does this look good?

    http://longisland.craigslist.org/cto/4759029473.html
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    edited November 2014
    Looks pretty good---front stripe is wrong I think, straps under gas tank funky, might not be a real RS (does have the 12 bolt rear, though).

    For a coupe that is not factory correct, it seems a bit pricey to me. The decision would have to be made by carefully inspecting the underside to see if all the bushings have been done, condition of ball joints, control arms floor pan, etc. If it's all fresh and clean and painted, I'd say $25K to $27.5K is the selling point. '69 is everyone's favorite year for a Camaro.

    Given this is a Long Island car, we'd have to fine-tooth it for rust issues.

    Also pay attention to weatherstripping, under dash, interior and exterior trim condition.

    With resto-mods, you often see superficial cosmetic restoration on top of big block crate engines and speed equipment.

    So yeah it might be worth it, but there's not enough information to justify this strong price.

    For comparison, a real SS/RS coupe big block in pristine shape could be in the high $40s.
  • ab348ab348 Member Posts: 20,330
    Superficially it looks pretty good, with nice colors to boot. Shifty hits all the salient points to look for. I personally find under the hood to be fairly repulsive with the aftermarket stuff in oversupply, but that may be just me. No way would I give $31K for it although Chevy prices are nutso.

    2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6

  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 53,464
    well, it does look sharp. But I am partial to a small block pony.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    That car would be really nice with a fuel-injected 350 motor--it would run 10X better and be much easier to maintain and drive. Ever drive a carburetted, cammed-up big block with HD clutch in traffic on a hot day? Real fun.

  • gsemikegsemike Member Posts: 2,419

    That car would be really nice with a fuel-injected 350 motor--it would run 10X better and be much easier to maintain and drive. Ever drive a carburetted, cammed-up big block with HD clutch in traffic on a hot day? Real fun.

    Something about this market here but those three words Bog Block Chevy are worth gold

    I did notice he doesn't come out and say whether it's a real RS or not

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    SS is a bigger deal than RS. We could probably tell if we could see the firewall tag.
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Member Posts: 4,600
    edited November 2014
    I always liked the styling of the '84 Fiero. Too bad its out-of-date, unrefined 4-cylinder engine was out of sync with the car's looks. I guess the whole Fiero episode defines the old GM.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/30/automobiles/fixes-came-too-late.html?ribbon-ad-idx=4&rref=automobiles&module=Ribbon&version=origin&region=Header&action=click&contentCollection=Automobiles&pgtype=article
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    What was weird about the Fiero was that for a small car, it felt like a truck to drive. Last years with V6 & 5 speed were the best, of course.
  • gsemikegsemike Member Posts: 2,419
    Long Island $2,000 challenge

    My niece is transferring to a local college. Since her parents are a little disappointed, her target budget is 2 grand

    http://longisland.craigslist.org/cto/4741243492.html What 19 year old girl wouldn't want this?

    http://longisland.craigslist.org/cto/4780527218.html Have definitely seen worse looking than this for the money. I think that the transmissions are the weak link

    http://longisland.craigslist.org/cto/4780606023.html Never thought that these were candidates to make it 200k

    http://longisland.craigslist.org/cto/4777073003.html Used to be ubiquitous around here. Not much anymore

    http://longisland.craigslist.org/cto/4780529250.html This was near lux when new. Have mostly disappeared. I would be that it was a V6

    http://longisland.craigslist.org/cto/4743821312.html Indestructible and looks clean

    http://longisland.craigslist.org/cto/4780558143.html 220k. She will notice the moonroof more than the mileage

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    1948 Lincoln---the little bits off it should be worth that amount of $$$

    Hey, this is tough----definitely NOT the Sebring.

    I'd go for the lowest mileage Japanese car in the bunch. The Buick and GM are kinda large to park and maneuver. Early 90s was not a high point for American iron.

  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Member Posts: 4,600
    edited November 2014

    What was weird about the Fiero was that for a small car, it felt like a truck to drive. Last years with V6 & 5 speed were the best, of course.

    True, the 1988 was the best Fiero, but the 1984 sold in far greater numbers (134,000 vs. 26, 400). The biggest reason for this is that it was new and different, and an unexpected pleasant surprise. GM that had lost a lot of credibility among car lovers by the 1980s, but it still had a big fan base. To my eyes the first model year was also the best looking Fiero. Others may have agreed with me, judging from the sales. Subsequent models had a less appealing front end styling. Again, my opinion. In fairness to the improved 1988, by then public perception of the Fiero trumped the fact that the car hadn't lived up to its promise.

    The Fiero's main competitor was the Toyota M-2-2, also mid-engine. The MT-2 was better engineered and, undoubtedly, more reliable (although the Fiero was reasonably reliable), but I think the Fiero beat the MR-2 in the looks department.

    Chevy displayed a couple of small, sporty concept cars at some of the major 2012 auto shows, to gauge public reaction. Click on

    http://www.thedetroitbureau.com/2012/01/chevrolet-targeting-millennials-with-pair-of-auto-show-concepts/

    I was hoping one of those would be go unto production, especially the RWD Code 130R, but with the styling of the Tru 140S. Apparently I was in the minority. Did either of these concept cars appeal to any other participants in this discussion? Anyone?

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Yeah, the MR-2 is not a very attractive car in any generation, but much more fun to drive than a 4 cylinder Fiero.
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Member Posts: 4,600

    Yeah, the MR-2 is not a very attractive car in any generation, but much more fun to drive than a 4 cylinder Fiero.

    Yeah, I was being kind to the second generation MR-2. Although it was a styling improvement over the first generation, I didn't care for its appearance very much. It struck me as a miniature exotic wannabe.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    It was "okay". The little roadster is pretty homely compared to a Miata.
  • ab348ab348 Member Posts: 20,330
    I owned an '85 MR2 from new and you have to look at the styling in the context of the times. It wasn't bad though admittedly not a classic styling job. Nice interior. Great little car to drive - like piloting a go-kart.

    2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Very fun to drive--not terribly fast but very "willing".
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,469
    edited November 2014
    This project car was out on the road on this cold day:

    image

    Was a little cranky to start - maybe because of the new FI component and because the car was idle for months. But once started, it ran like nothing happened, drove fine. Got lots of looks and a few waves.
  • jwilliams2jwilliams2 Member Posts: 910
    Great looking car...
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 17,697
    Agreed, jwilliams! And, glad to see that you were able to get it out and about this year (given all the issues earlier), Fin.
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
  • omarmanomarman Member Posts: 2,702
    fintail said:

    This project car was out on the road on this cold day:

    image

    .

    Looks great! Ready for another Rainier Run next summer.
    A time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,469
    Thanks guys. The old dear was definitely in fine "15 footer" form yesterday, and the paint seems to do well in the sunlight this time of year.

    Makes me think of what might be up for next year. Aside from unforeseen issues, I am really thinking of having the (white) steering wheel refinished.
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 17,697
    I vote for replacing the plastic covers on your marker/signal lights! :D I replaced the backup light covers on my C20, and it was shocking how that small detail really spruced up the rig. Almost sad, really. LOL
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Member Posts: 4,600
    fintail said:

    Thanks guys. The old dear was definitely in fine "15 footer" form yesterday, and the paint seems to do well in the sunlight this time of year.

    Makes me think of what might be up for next year. Aside from unforeseen issues, I am really thinking of having the (white) steering wheel refinished.

    You're taking similar step by step, not too much in any year repair approach that I took with my '87 E30 and '88 300 ZX 2+2.. Like your Fintail, mine were always in good mechanical and cosmetic condition, but not perfect. As you've mentioned a few times, some patina is desirable.

    I finally sold my E30 because it would have required $2,700 of mechanical work (A/C, rear axle leak and more) to get it to where I wanted it, and that was about 150% of the value at the time. It had 127,000 on the odometer. Two dealers offered me $500 on a new car trade, after a nice discount on a new car, but I took a pass and bought the A4. I listed the E30 on Craigslist for $1,650 and sold it the next day to a private party. I knew I could have held out for something over $2,000, but I didn't want the hassle of a lot of strangers coming to test drive it.

    The Nissan had an unexpected catastrophic transmission failure at 194,500 miles. A main seal or bearing gave out and the transmission fluid gushed out. It was not repairable, and would have had to be replaced. An excellent independent garage that specializes in restoring Nissan Z cars estimated that it would have required about $7,000 to get mine to the condition I wanted. The steering also rack needed replacement, plus other worn parts and a crack in the windshield. In addition, the plastic on the electric mirrors was cracked and chipped.

    I was surprised about the transmission failure because it was a manual, but the shop owner said he's seen numerous similar failures on Zs over the years. He said the part that failed was a point of relative weakness on that model. His recommendation was that, since it wasn't driveable, I could put it on Craigslist. I sold it quickly and easily for $500, my asking price. The buyer already had a '87 300 ZX 2+2 with needs. He bought mine because the body was straight, without rust, and the interior was excellent. The parts my car needed were interchangeable with the good parts from his car. My car was the survivor.

    Looking back, maybe I should have kept the E30, which also had a straight, rust-free body and an excellent interior. Since several people on Edmunds advised against investing the money for repairs, I chose objective advice over emotional attachment.

    As for what may be up next, the element of surprise always lurks with old cars and high mileage ones. In a way that's part of the fun. Beating the odds is also part of the challenge. In addition, there's a nostalgia and bonding element. If my perception that your MB is lower mileage than my E30, you may be able to keep it on the road for a long time without spending too much at any one time, like what you've been doing.

  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,469
    edited December 2014
    Those lenses might not be easy - NOS ones exist, but are pricey. Junkyard examples will have patina. There are no repros. Funny thing, the lenses in the headlight bezels are just decoration - early US market cars had lights there, but they were soon moved inboard towards the grille (as on my car), maybe to increase visibility. Euro models had large composite headlight assembles, maybe the first larger scale production sedan to use such units.

    Yes, with this car, I take it one thing at a time. As an adequate restoration would cost 40K and not pay off, and it looks "good enough" as it is, I will just drive it and see how it ages. True mileage is technically unknown as I have a 13 year gap in records (1976-1989), but the brake pedal is worn down to the metal underneath, which makes me think it might have gone around the clock twice - MBs then only had 5 digit odometers, too. Right now, the car could technically use some valve work, but at maybe 3K or so, a quart of oil once a year is more attractive. I suppose some suspension components could be replaced. Body, paint, and chrome, are low priorities, as they are good enough for me - and the car looks so good from a small distance or on camera, that helps too. As the car might see 1500 miles in a busy year, it's not wearing out too fast. If I hit a lottery, I'll probably send it to the Classic Center to be new again, but until then, I'll just keep it roadworthy.
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 17,697
    fintail said:

    Those lenses might not be easy - NOS ones exist, but are pricey. Junkyard examples will have patina. There are no repros.


    Oh, wow! That surprises me, as something like that seems like an obvious part to have available indefinitely. Plastic on the outside of the car? Yep, that's gonna need replacing....

    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Member Posts: 4,600
    fintail said:

    Those lenses might not be easy - NOS ones exist, but are pricey. Junkyard examples will have patina. There are no repros. Funny thing, the lenses in the headlight bezels are just decoration - early US market cars had lights there, but they were soon moved inboard towards the grille (as on my car), maybe to increase visibility. Euro models had large composite headlight assembles, maybe the first larger scale production sedan to use such units.

    Yes, with this car, I take it one thing at a time. As an adequate restoration would cost 40K and not pay off, and it looks "good enough" as it is, I will just drive it and see how it ages. True mileage is technically unknown as I have a 13 year gap in records (1976-1989), but the brake pedal is worn down to the metal underneath, which makes me think it might have gone around the clock twice - MBs then only had 5 digit odometers, too. Right now, the car could technically use some valve work, but at maybe 3K or so, a quart of oil once a year is more attractive. I suppose some suspension components could be replaced. Body, paint, and chrome, are low priorities, as they are good enough for me - and the car looks so good from a small distance or on camera, that helps too. As the car might see 1500 miles in a busy year, it's not wearing out too fast. If I hit a lottery, I'll probably send it to the Classic Center to be new again, but until then, I'll just keep it roadworthy.

    At 1,500 miles/year or less, there's a good chance your Fintail will last for the rest of your driving days. Maybe you'll get tired of it at some point, or just want a change, but your comments suggest you're not near that point.

    I used my old cars for everyday transportation rather than occasionally. We've got three cars and two drivers now, the oldest car being the '99 TL. Each of our cars gets driven once a week, at a minimum.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,469
    edited December 2014
    No demand. Few cars are being restored, and there are enough NOS leftovers for those that are. No repro glass or body panels either, although repro bumpers exist now, I could probably find NOS plastic for all of the lenses on the car, but it would cost numerous hundreds of dollars - especially for the taillights.
    xwesx said:


    Oh, wow! That surprises me, as something like that seems like an obvious part to have available indefinitely. Plastic on the outside of the car? Yep, that's gonna need replacing....

  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,469
    That's one of the reasons I keep it - it's not going to wear out anytime soon. There could always be a random catastrophic mechanical failure, or it could get hit, but those risks are dealt with in any old car. I've had the car since I was 18 - almost 20 years now, so it is a sentimental object too.

    It was my everyday car from the time I bought it, through college, and even a short time after. But by then the age was obvious, and I wanted to keep the car as dry as possible. I try to take it out every other week or so, depending on weather and running status.


    At 1,500 miles/year or less, there's a good chance your Fintail will last for the rest of your driving days. Maybe you'll get tired of it at some point, or just want a change, but your comments suggest you're not near that point.

    I used my old cars for everyday transportation rather than occasionally. We've got three cars and two drivers now, the oldest car being the '99 TL. Each of our cars gets driven once a week, at a minimum.

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I like the way this ad sort of glosses over the rust issues:

    http://sfbay.craigslist.org/nby/cto/4775687853.html

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Math Quiz:

    Tommy buys a damaged car for $3500

    When all fixed up, this car will be worth $5500

    Question: How much money has Tommy lost?

    http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/cto/4786022293.html

  • texasestexases Member Posts: 11,126

    I like the way this ad sort of glosses over the rust issues:

    http://sfbay.craigslist.org/nby/cto/4775687853.html

    That's a 'small hole'. This is his idea of a 'big hole':

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Call me fussy, but if I can stick my hand through the rust, it's probably not a small hole.
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 53,464
    Odd bunch. At least the Benz guy is not asking stupid money (as it relates to diesel wagons!). and he did show the hole in a picture. pretty nasty though. Very ratty car.

    $3,500 for that Sonata? maybe $500 for someone that needs an engine (assuming that it is actually OK). Haul it off to the boneyard and start stripping it.

    The 2002, I kind of like it! Not the interior. And yeah, it sort of needs paint and an interior. But does not seem like a horrible price, if the mechanical work was done right, and it really does run as well as he claims. that "custom" panel attached to the dash, that makes my DIY handiwork look good!

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,469
    "Runs and DID drive"

    That's a new one. At least it is cheap, although maybe even sketchy as a parts car.

    I suspect the Sonata owner owes $3500 on it.

    I like the way this ad sort of glosses over the rust issues:

    http://sfbay.craigslist.org/nby/cto/4775687853.html

  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,035
    Well, my DeSoto is starting to look like a complete car again. I went by the shop during lunch to drop off another check. The body is back on the frame. I took a few pics...hard to get really good ones, as it was sort of crammed in a corner, but here they are...





    Oh, and check out what the mechanic now has up on the lift, in its place...






  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,469
    edited December 2014
    I laughed at the Chevette. Nice piece of styling brilliance to the left, and another future classic under it, too.

    I am jealous of that DeSoto, I'd love to do something like that to my fintail, but I just can't commit to the time and expense. It should be pretty stunning when it is detailed up and back on the road.
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 53,464
    Does look almost ready. Nice 2 tone fender treatment. I thought there was no paint work involved?

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342

    I like the way this ad sort of glosses over the rust issues:

    http://sfbay.craigslist.org/nby/cto/4775687853.html

    Rust in Santa Rosa? Looks like it came from the Rust Belt!

    That cowl rust and blown rear end are more than enough to total the car.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342

    Math Quiz:

    Tommy buys a damaged car for $3500

    When all fixed up, this car will be worth $5500

    Question: How much money has Tommy lost?

    http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/cto/4786022293.html

    " Front end needs to be repair"

    Ya THINK?
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    andre1969 said:

    Well, my DeSoto is starting to look like a complete car again. I went by the shop during lunch to drop off another check. The body is back on the frame. I took a few pics...hard to get really good ones, as it was sort of crammed in a corner, but here they are...





    Oh, and check out what the mechanic now has up on the lift, in its place...






    Looking good Andre and almost done!

    I've seen 1957 Chryslers with quad headlights but never a De Soto.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,035
    stickguy said:

    Does look almost ready. Nice 2 tone fender treatment. I thought there was no paint work involved?

    Originally I wasn't going to have the mechanic do any paint/body work, but once he started pulling the car apart, I let myself get talked into have more and more stuff done, with the old "it's cheaper to do it all now, with the car all apart" mantra.

    However, I'm not going to have him repaint the whole car. Labor rates in this area are just getting too expensive. Plus, I gotta admit I'm going a bit broke. :'(

    When it comes time to get the car painted, I'll probably have it shipped out somewhere. I hear that even going to certain parts of PA, West VA, etc, labor rates drop off tremendously.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    fintail said:

    I laughed at the Chevette. Nice piece of styling brilliance to the left, and another future classic under it, too.

    I am jealous of that DeSoto, I'd love to do something like that to my fintail, but I just can't commit to the time and expense. It should be pretty stunning when it is detailed up and back on the road.

    Hey Fintail,

    If you would be interested in swapping your Mercedes for the NICEST 1998 BMW 328i
    convertible you've ever seen, I seriously might be interested.
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 53,464
    Rattle cans in the driveway Andre. Just make sure to drink lots of beer first.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 17,697
    andre1969 said:

    Originally I wasn't going to have the mechanic do any paint/body work, but once he started pulling the car apart, I let myself get talked into have more and more stuff done, with the old "it's cheaper to do it all now, with the car all apart" mantra.

    So, if it wouldn't embarrass you too much, would you remind me the original intent when you took the car to the shop so long ago?

    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,035



    Looking good Andre and almost done!

    I've seen 1957 Chryslers with quad headlights but never a De Soto.

    Thanks!

    Oddly, around here, I tend to see more quad headlight '57 DeSotos than I do single headlight models. Not that I see them on a regular basis, that is...

    That new driver's side fender on my car is off of a single headlight model, and my mechanic thinks that it might have been for a Chrysler, because he said the lower part of it, which is actually hidden behind the bumper/grille combo, was a bit different. So, he had to make some modifications to it. Also, it's not an easy swap to change out from single headlights to quads. I had thought the interchange would have just involved screws and bolts, but some of the stuff you have to swap is actually welded in place.

    I had always presumed that the '57-58 Chrysler/DeSoto fenders were identical, but apparently not so. I guess that's good to remember, on the off chance I ever have to go through this again!

    One reason quad headlight DeSotos might seem a bit rare is that the cheapest model, the Dodge-based Firesweep, only came with single headlights, and it accounted for about 1/3 of DeSoto's sales that year. The senior models, on the longer wheelbase shared with Chrysler, offered single or quad, depending on what state they were sold in. However, now that I think about it, while I've seen single headlight Firedomes and Fireflites, I don't think I've ever seen a single headlight Adventurer from '57.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,469
    edited December 2014
    Thanks, but no thanks ;)

    Looking to get out of it already? CEL stuck on? Bad time of year to sell one - hold off til April, and the buyers will come.

    If you want an old MB, no more than $7500 should be enough to buy a genuinely nice completely presentable and roadworthy W108 or W111, - a car nicer than mine, or maybe even less if you are lucky or want patina like I have.



    Hey Fintail,

    If you would be interested in swapping your Mercedes for the NICEST 1998 BMW 328i
    convertible you've ever seen, I seriously might be interested.

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