Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

fintail

I think this is the cheapest detached house in my zipcode - a spacious 1100 sq ft charmer on a sprawling estate-like 8100 sq ft lot. All yours for three quarters of a million dollars. Oops, already pending.

stickguy said:

must be some sort of Hovel available for 1.2 million or so.

fintail

It seems like just a few years ago one could find a nice 456 for maybe 50K-ish - but they all vanished (read: prices went up). I have to wonder how long this market can last.

Mr_Shiftright said:

If you want an "affordable" kind of Ferrari around $75K, like a Testarossa or 550 Maranello, you're going to have to accept high mileage----and really, these cars are "done" at 60,000 miles.

isellhondas

CHP used 1955 Centurys two door sedans with three speed manuals. Even Broderick Crawford drove one!

stickguy

interesting house. Looks like the before pictures in an episode of property brothers.

I should have moved to seattle back in the late 80s when I was considering it. was cheap then!

Mr_Shiftright

"Okay you punks --outta da car!: LOL!

isellhondas said:

CHP used 1955 Centurys two door sedans with three speed manuals. Even Broderick Crawford drove one!

hpmctorque

andre1969 said:

hpmctorque said:

I think the Super shared the Roadbastard's body, but featured the smaller engine that was also used in the Special. This would have made the Super the least super, in terms of performance. Of course, only those that counted the portholes knew or cared, since the Super played the role of the big, bad Buick well, especially if it was painted black. Besides, driving such a land barge slowly was more proper and dignified than squealing the tires.

You had me curious, so I looked it up. For 1954 (according to Consumer Guide at least, the engine choices were:
Special: 264 CID V8 with 143/150 hp (manual/automatic?)
Century: 322 CID V8 with 195/200 hp
Super: 322 CID V8 with 177/182 hp
Roadmaster/Skylark: 322 CID with 200 hp (guessing an automatic was standard in these cars?)

I wonder if the 177/182 hp 322 used a 2-bbl carb and the 195/200 used a 4-bbl?

For 1955 they went to a 264 with 188 hp for the Special, and a 322 with 236 hp for everything else.

Thanks for fact checking. Maybe I was thinking of the displacements of the older straight-8 Buick models, or perhaps my recall on the displacements was just wrong (I'm too lazy to look up the older Buick specs now).

berri

All this talk about Buick Century and Special's gets me to missing Broderick Crawford and the old Highway Patrol TV show.

fintail

I bet around 1988 that house was no more than 150K. You could get something pretty nice for around 200K then. It seems housing here outpaced income growth by maybe a factor of 3-4. Kind of like some old cars.

stickguy said:

interesting house. Looks like the before pictures in an episode of property brothers.

I should have moved to seattle back in the late 80s when I was considering it. was cheap then!

fintail

Had the old dear out for a drive in the sun today:



Cold morning, car was dormant for 2 weeks. First turn of the key was several seconds of slow idle, then no idle. Second turn was fine, ran like it had just been driven yesterday. It ran fine the rest of the way, had no problem outpacing dopey slowpoke local traffic, and the horn has a really nice tone

stickguy

Fin, one big difference (before your time, you whippersnapper) was interest rates. Back then, you could easily be paying 10% vs. the 3% today. Makes a big difference on a mortgage. Combine that with 2 wage earners, and some well paying industries, and that is what you get.

That house, if you have some equity or cash and can put down 20%, leaves you with a 600K mortgage. At 3%, that is $2,520/mo. Add in ~$500 for property taxes, and you are looking at $3k/month. Of which about 24K is fed tax deductible so real cost is say $2,500.

probably not more, if not less, than renting in that area. And if you get in before the bubble bursts, maybe some appreciation!

fintail

I've seen the stuff about 15% mortgages in the early 80s. But when the house was 125K, salary was 35K (or more, dual wage families were common here then too), it's still better than today when the same house is 850K, but the salary is 150K combined, and many other cost of living inputs are much higher. The generation before my peers here hit a lottery - like people who bought a 300SL roadster for 250K 20 years ago, or a 190SL for 30K. Those of my peers who do own detached houses usually both received parental help, and bought in more distant areas (where prices are lower and appreciation is a bit less).

The market here is largely driven by offshore money. I don't know when it will run out - I doubt the de facto no questions asked policy will change anytime soon.

stever

We got our house in Anchorage at 13.5% in 1984, paid more than appraisal and were underwater for ~7 years when the oil market crashed (sound familiar?). Broke even when we decided to move after living in it for 15 years (including 3 refi's). Loved every minute of that house.

fintail

Could be worse. It's all location. A house I lived in as a kid sold in the early 90s for maybe 80K. It can't be worth more than 110K today - that's how it is outside of the cities here. The current owners have put a lot into it, too - they removed an internal chimney.

Some cars have performed as poorly, older cars where the demographic who loves them is going to the great car show in the sky.

berri

Buying a home is a good way to diversify your investments and can end up providing you a paid off home when you retire. But be careful. There are a lot of expenses over time owning a house that can add up. The interest tax write-off can also be misleading. You write off the equivalent of your incremental tax bracket of the interest, but are still shelling out cash for the majority of the interest. It is a nice subsidy, but that also makes it potentially vulnerable to tax law reform down the road. It can also be expensive to sell a home, particularly if you don't have much equity built up or your employer is not picking up the selling expenses. Mortgages are compound interest so you are shelling out more in interest than paying off principal for quite awhile. People often forget all of these kind of things when they calculate how much they "made off" their home. Investors who buy properties to lease don't want to lose principal on their purchases, but they are generally more focused on cash flows and depreciation than home appreciation. There are more than a few wealthy people who rent and focus their cash on the stock and bond market. That should provide you a clue. First and foremost, a house is a place to live, not a primary investment vehicle.

stickguy

there are many areas where it can actually be cheaper to buy then rent. Seems odd, but happens. I can see renting more once the kids are gone and you are closer to retirement, and more likely to move. But when you have little kids and want to settle in to a neighborhood to raise them, buying is often the only way to do it. Though where you are on the socio-economic spectrum makes a difference too.

fintail

It was that way where my friend lived in GA - buying was cheaper than rent. Add in the ridiculous subsidies, and it became a no-brainer. In WA, get outside of the Seattle area, and buying is often a better way to go, too.

stickguy

I will have to buy my next house, when I finally downsize (house and tax bill) my way out of NJ. Because we want a lot of specific things, and the landlord might not like it when I started knocking walls down.

which of course is another huge advantage to owning. Getting what you want!

uplanderguy

Speaking of homes, our daughters got us tickets for a specific tour of Frank Lloyd Wright's 'Fallingwater' home on the 29th of Dec. as a Christmas gift. It was a 2 hr. 40 min. drive from our house, but it had long been on my bucket list. Truly amazing. We have enjoyed a couple presidents' home tours (Harding but especially, R.B. Hayes) which are both within a couple hours' drive from our house, this past year. But Fallingwater is really something. I bet there were fifty cars in the parking lot when we were there, and simultaneous tours going on, unlike the presidents' homes we've visited.

http://www.fallingwater.org/

My financial guy said he thought it was in disrepair when they visited a couple years back, but to me, what one saw was 'patina'...it, and all its furnishings, are being preserved as original. We did see some paper towels and a bucket stopping a water leak or two, but the tour guide said that house leaked when it was new. I guess Wright was all about 'wow' factor, but some of his engineering basics left something to be desired.

andre, I don't think this is probably real, real far from where you live--17 miles south of the Donegal exit of the PA Turnpike. I was surprised at how 'Appalachia' it looked from the turnpike to the little burg where the house is (their P.O. box there is "Box R", LOL), but again, the house and property are stunning.

To my eyes, an Avanti would have looked great out front, or a Continental Mark II, but in the era it was built, an original Continental would probably be more like it.

The house was finished in '39 at a cost of $155,000. The budget had been $35,000....LOL.

The Kaufmann family (department stores) owned it until 1963.

stever

I think all of Frank's buildings leak. I love flat roof houses and am currently living in one. But they are hard enough to maintain in the desert Southwest, much less up in, say, Buffalo. We toured the Martin House there and it's great, but leaky. Wright did a lot of nice stuff at Florida Southern College in Lakeland where my MIL snowbirded. Lots of leaks there too.

uplanderguy

I've read up a little on Wright in the few days since we were at Fallingwater. I will make it a point to see if there are Wright buildings in places we plan on visiting or being near.

I read that Mr. Kaufmann kiddingly referred to Fallingwater as 'Rising Mildew', LOL.

I read with astonishment that Wright's home, Taliesin (I think), in Wisconsin, was set on fire by a disgruntled domestic employee in 1914 who locked all the doors after setting the fire and murdered seven people, including Wright's wife and her children from a prior marriage, and some Wright employees, with an ax--while Wright was in Chicago. Ugh. Wright lived until 1959.

stever

He had a bit of a dark history. There's a church and some houses in a neighborhood in Chicago that's "close" to you. We skipped the houses that time, the church (Unitarian?) was interesting. Didn't even think about trying to see Taliesin West when we were in Scottsdale a couple of weeks ago. Not only do the roofs there leak, but so does the underground plumbing.

Keeping a historic albatross standing would be like someone giving you an old 12 cylinder XK-E. It's a piece of history but the maintenance costs are killer.

Mr_Shiftright

The Marin Civic Center (only municipal building ever designed by Wright) leaks like a sieve.

"My Buildings Leak For Themselves"

Connecting two lines on a blueprint isn't the same as connecting two beams in a building.

stever said:

I think all of Frank's buildings leak. I love flat roof houses and am currently living in one. But they are hard enough to maintain in the desert Southwest, much less up in, say, Buffalo. We toured the Martin House there and it's great, but leaky. Wright did a lot of nice stuff at Florida Southern College in Lakeland where my MIL snowbirded. Lots of leaks there too.

stickguy

All these old car links lately have convinced cars.com that I really want an old domestic. So this pops up. and yes, I know what year it is, but I still really like it! But man, what a terrible color. But look at all those pedals!

would be a great car to go through an episode of Overhaulin!

http://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/654336754/overview/?aff=criteo&BAC=criteolf91814

ab348

I don't know what you guys have against pale yellow cars. I like that '77 Corvette just as it is. Price doesn't seem too bad and you know they'll only go up in value.

stever

The haters are likely parents..... 'nough said.

Mr_Shiftright

Things to watch out for are VERY hard to find heater and AC parts and missing smog equipment (if you plan to drive in California).

stickguy

well, that isn't yellow. It is tan. Not the same thing. I like yellow.

will never drive in CA, so no worries there.

and AC would not be an issue, since it would be a fair weather car. Heck, probably won't need a heater either!

pretty sure in NJ it would be exempt. so stripping everything off to make it run better, sounds good to me!

Mr_Shiftright

door panels are unique to that year as well so scarce as well. Interior trim pieces get very brittle with age so...gently...gently.....very hard to source.

ab348

Mr_Shiftright said:

door panels are unique to that year as well so scarce as well. Interior trim pieces get very brittle with age so...gently...gently.....very hard to source.

Used to be that way with C1 and C2 Vettes. Not any more. I suspect these will be in repro-land soon.

uplanderguy

I used to hate C3 Corvettes. I'm always reminded that one of the enthusiast mags referred to them as "The Flying D_____". But in the past few years, if I see a stock one, I can appreciate them. For the time period, they were more interesting than a lot of domestic cars.

That color is a chamois-like color in person. I worked with a guy with a '77 25 years ago and rode in it, same color. What I remember is that those were the flattest, least-supportive seats for something called a 'bucket seat' I can remember...LOL.

I am not remembering that that was a one-year door panel. Possibly you mean the piano-black insert instead of fake woodgrain, I'm not sure. If that's it, that's probably not a real big deal.

Mr_Shiftright

I think '77 door panels are one year only but I was referring to original panels---you can buy repo stuff.

If you look HERE, you'll see that 1977 has its own separate listing for door panels.

The original luggage rack is another hard to find item.

77 isn't a rare year---production was 49.213, more than the 76 or the 78.

uplanderguy

Yes, that ad confirms that the only difference is the black insert instead of woodgrain. Push come to shove, that could be painted pretty easily I would think.

Mr_Shiftright

Depends on how anal one is about originality and all that....

texases

Neighbor was a Corvette restoration nut, kept the original headlight bulbs in a box, made sure the repaint had the faint ridge down the side, etc, etc...

andre1969

ab348 said:

I don't know what you guys have against pale yellow cars. I like that '77 Corvette just as it is. Price doesn't seem too bad and you know they'll only go up in value.

My only beef with pale yellow cars is that I've already had a number of cars in similar shades...a beige '69 Dart GT, a "cashmere" '79 Newport, a pale yellow '67 Newport, a 2-tone crème/beige 5th Ave, and a pale yellow '67 Catalina (I think it's called "Capri Cream"). I'm not crazy about the color on that Corvette, but don't hate it, either. But if I go for another old car, I'd want a different color, just for the sake of change.

ab348

I guess that Vette is pale beige. Looked like pale yellow on my screen. But in my defense, I'm partly color-challenged. The interior looked green in the pics to me, but the ad says it is brown, so what do I know...

berri

Monitor settings can also affect the coloring. Beige and pale yellow can be sort of close anyway.

ab348

berri said:

Monitor settings can also affect the coloring. Beige and pale yellow can be sort of close anyway.

I looked at it on both a laptop and an iPad. No settings on those that I have ever found to affect the color, though I suppose they are buried somewhere.

uplanderguy

Looking at that '77 Corvette again, it is rather unusual (to my eyes, anyway) to see a 4-speed in that late of a car--a nice feature. The woodgrain on the center section of the panel is aftermarket. I like that steering wheel....I am assuming that's an original wheel. For overall styling, I like the '78 and '79 with the wraparound rear window and 'hatch', but I'm thinking that in one of those years they went to the steering wheel that was used in Vega GT's, Monzas, Camaros, '72 Monte Carlo Customs and later, the lowest-line Cavaliers--four hard-plastic spokes which hid the uppermost gauges on Vegas, Monzas, and Camaros!

berri

Sometimes the settings are actually on the monitor as well.

qbrozen

$40k for a Mondial has to be over the top. I can't imagine that's a desirable car. Maybe I'm wrong.

I always liked the 550 myself.

Mr_Shiftright

Expensive car to keep, the Mondial. Figure $2,000 per year for service and on top of that a $3,000 to $5000 major service (at least) in the 3rd year. This would be for a car in pristine condition when you buy it. A rough rule of thumb for a vintage Ferrari is $2 a mile to drive it.

Something major, like engine failure, would, of course, total the car.

isellhondas

berri said:

All this talk about Buick Century and Special's gets me to missing Broderick Crawford and the old Highway Patrol TV show.

Just go to You Tube and type in Highway Patrol and you can watch many episodes. The series ran from 1955 to 1959. I will warn you that they can be addictive.

Broderick Crawford lived in or near the town I grew up in. I spotted him a couple of times. Once in a drug store and another time he walked out of a bar. He used to buy gas at the station where I worked part time but I never waited on him.

isellhondas

fintail said:

I bet around 1988 that house was no more than 150K. You could get something pretty nice for around 200K then. It seems housing here outpaced income growth by maybe a factor of 3-4. Kind of like some old cars.

stickguy said:

interesting house. Looks like the before pictures in an episode of property brothers.

I should have moved to seattle back in the late 80s when I was considering it. was cheap then!

Ahem.....looks like the "before" picture?

We bought it in 1986 for 126,000. A house two blocks away that is ten years older and a split level
went on the market for 799,000. It ended up selling in four days in a bidding war and it sold for over the asking price. I don't know how people can qualify for what has to be just massive loans.

fintail

It kind of is, a pic before the old house is torn down and a new faux chateau takes its place. Just don't ask where the money comes from.

Looks like you are one of the lucky ones in terms of timing

A friend of mine's family bought a new house in Kirkland, west of Market, for 125K in 1985. It has to be right about 1MM now. Lottery.

isellhondas said:

Ahem.....looks like the "before" picture?

We bought it in 1986 for 126,000. A house two blocks away that is ten years older and a split level
went on the market for 799,000. It ended up selling in four days in a bidding war and it sold for over the asking price. I don't know how people can qualify for what has to be just massive loans.

berri

Ever notice that if you watch an old half hour show from the 50's or 60's, there is generally 25-27 minutes of program. What is it today on TV, maybe 20 minutes if you're lucky? But then look how much longer baseball and football games drag on.

As for houses, the Chinese tend to pay cash. People like you that bought smart (and maybe also lucky) years ago can make some serious profit, as long as they don't have to put it right back in the same market at least. I'm not sure the new buyers will make out nearly as well...and sometimes over heated market buyers can lose their rear as well down the road. I think younger people are wise to get into a house, but they also need to make sure those tax write offs of interest and all the other real estate babble doesn't make them use lazy math in their calculations. Maybe these Chinese real estate bubbles on the west coast will be different, but go back a few decades and the Japanese one didn't end pretty when the bubble burst. But Seattle does seem to have a pretty healthy economy right now. Down the road, does Boeing move a lot of itself to South Carolina, tech get contracted out to lower cost countries, China forces its citizens to sell and repatriate the funds to the home country during a financial crisis? So you're right, sounds like banks are getting lazy and greedy again (why not, the losers got bailed out last time. Most by the FDIC, the big ones by Congress and the White House).

andre1969

I think a half hour of tv these days is 21 minutes, but who knows? Might be even less. One of the more recent tricks to squeeze in more commercials is to minimize the closing credits of a show, and broadcast them DURING the opening credits of the next show! Kind of a shame, because now modern audiences may never hear Eva Gabor say "This has been a Filmways Presentation, Dahh-ling" or Bob Newhart sarcastically say "Meee-oww!"

ab348

The Chasing Classic Cars eps I've been watching via my cableco On Demand run 23 minutes each.

The closing bumper I likeed best was the old Universal Studios one with the spinning Earth and the orchestral "Dah-da-da-da-Dah-da-da-da-DAH".

Speaking of moneyed folk, those Wayne Carini shows I watched really were an eye-opener. Of course when you deal with Ferrari and Porsche and R-R and rare classics you are not talking pocket change, but the people and locations they showed were just beyond belief. Not only seeing what goes on at Pebble Beach and Amelia Island concours, etc., but also the homes where some of these cars and their owners live. It really is a different world from that most of us are in. Seeing Luigi Chinetti Jr. turn down $22mil for his Triposto was a serious "gulp" moment.

xwesx

I perceive that the end is near for this plow truck project. It has continued for far longer than I imagined, but I think the end result is of good quality! I have everything back together again, but unfortunately ran into a little hiccup with the rear brakes. As I was bleeding them on Sunday, the brake line (which was admittedly rusty after 30 years in the "Anchorage Bowl") burst. I guess it didn't like to hold actual pressure after a several-year hiatus from the activity.

I finally wrenched that bugger off of there last night and had a new one fabricated this morning (over 4' of line including fittins for $20! Alaska Rubber and Rigging FTW). So, if the install and bleeding goes well tonight, the old pile should have its shoes on the ground for the first time in four weeks tonight! I'm excited.....

stever

Looks like you have 12 to 15 inches of snow on the ground? Guess your neighbors will welcome the plow truck being back in service.