Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

Mr_Shiftright

I'm definitely seeing most 993 prices coming down.

isellhondas

Most first gen Celicas rusted into dust. Even in California.

One of the best cars I ever owned was a 1979 Celica Liftback that I bought new in Concord CA for 7400.00 it had every option except AT. In four years I drove it almost 100,00m miles and sold it for 4200.00.

It caused few problems except every 25,000 miles or so, the exhaust manifold would crack. At 90,000 miles Toyota replaced my entire exhaust system (?) under warranty.

That little car was bulletproof unlike the 1983 Celica GT I replaced it with. A good car but far less quality.

Mr_Shiftright

A very early (70s) Celica in pristine shape would be worth decent money, but still well under $10K. The 80s ones don't seem to be worth very much at all.

fintail

I think small bumper early Celicas in truly pristine condition can hit 10K now - and I think that will slowly but steadily increase. 80s ones are worth little, but a mint wedge Supra or maybe an All-Trac should be at least a decent special interest car someday.

Mr_Shiftright

Here's one for $12,995 asking, with 17,000 original miles on it---so I guess we could say this is the Mt. Everest of early Celica values at the moment:

https://classics.autotrader.com/classic-cars/1978/toyota/celica/100727984

Not sure he'll get that price but he should clear $10K.

See? If you had bought this car in 1978 and held onto it for 38 years, you'd have tripled your money!

fintail

That's a second gen car though. The most expensive one I have seen, anyway. If it was a Supra with that bodystyle, maybe.

ab348

Mr_Shiftright said:

Here's one for $12,995 asking, with 17,000 original miles on it---so I guess we could say this is the Mt. Everest of early Celica values at the moment:

https://classics.autotrader.com/classic-cars/1978/toyota/celica/100727984

Not sure he'll get that price but he should clear $10K.

See? If you had bought this car in 1978 and held onto it for 38 years, you'd have tripled your money!

I have no experience with those and have no idea what they are like to own or drive, but that design never did much for me. The front end in particular looked awkward.

That particular one has something very funky going on with the right rear interior trim panel.

stickguy

much more car in the mid 80s. The first generation were somewhat "delicate" models. I would grab a clean 1984 Celica for a decent price. Especially a GTS!

ab348

I remember when the 1984 Celica came out I didn't like the angular styling, but I warmed up to it. In fact when I was in the market in 1985 I went to the local Toyota dealer with the intention to buy a Celica. But they had a MR2 in the showroom and I sat in it and started to laugh because I just loved it right away.

I ended up going to a leasing company that was run by a friend of my Dad's to get the car. He found an identical one at a dealer a few hundred miles away that he could get for less than the one at the dealer I went to, which was a block away from his office. They only had that one car in stock, and being in their showroom I never got a chance to test-drive it, but I was so enraptured, I didn't care. I had read the reviews in the magazines and they all loved it. I would never do something that stupid today.

I signed the papers, he handed me the keys, and off I went. Here's how dumb (or in love) I was: the only manual transmissions I had ever driven were on a couple of farm vehicles we had on the property in the country we owned years earlier, before I even had a drivers license. I had to figure out how to shift it on the drive home. To the car's credit, it was pretty easy and I only stalled it once driving home. Never had much problem with shifting after that and became pretty proficient, even when starting on hills.

fintail

I always liked the "wedge" Supras. I see the nicest ones have at least modest value now, not expensive, but better than an ordinary car of the same age in the same condition.

stickguy

Would take this one if it was a stick. Though I would prefer a coupe or hatch. cheap enough though.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1985-Toyota-Celica-GTS-/252707138342?forcerrptr=true&hash=item3ad684eb26:g:XpoAAOSwmLlX5~uR&item=252707138342

texases

I'd much prefer the Supra, in black, with the wheel flares:

fintail

Here's a survivor early 1st gen coupe on local CL

tjc78

Love that Supra.

uplanderguy

Did they make that era Supra without the flares?

fintail

Celica fastbacks from 82-85 were like a Supra with no flares/spoiler and a different front clip (and of course a smaller engine).

texases

uplanderguy said:

Did they make that era Supra without the flares?

Yes, that was the 'base' Supra. I don't like it near as much:

Mr_Shiftright

I kinda like that black one, too.

fintail

Those base ones must be somewhat unusual, at least regionally - most I see today have the cladding.

Edit: These's a decent enough survivor base on local CL right now - although it seems familiar and I think has been listed for awhile.

Here's another, not as clean, "Supra L"

uplanderguy

I like the no-flares much better, personally. I don't remember seeing one before.

At the time, those flared ones reminded me of early-'60's GM passenger buses I used to see at O.D. Anderson, the tour bus place in my hometown.

And yes, I detested all the flares and cladding on many '90's GM's of the period too.

explorerx4

I remember going 'Wow' the first time I saw a Black Supra like the one in the picture.
My wife has an 83 Celica GT. looked good but a pretty plain driver, even with a stick.
It wasn't a car that made you want to go through the gears.

tjc78

You've been warned. It's bad. http://m.ebay.com/itm/232195123341?_trkparms=pageci:09179256-d794-11e6-a1a9-74dbd18063e0|parentrq:8ae7911b1590a60641417bdaffc0c7c4|iid:7&_mwBanner=1

xwesx

tjc78 said:

You've been warned. It's bad. http://m.ebay.com/itm/232195123341?_trkparms=pageci:09179256-d794-11e6-a1a9-74dbd18063e0|parentrq:8ae7911b1590a60641417bdaffc0c7c4|iid:7&_mwBanner=1

*gags*

I surely hope that IS the only one in the world!

bhill2

Darn. I missed it. It was removed. Well maybe it's for the best.

Mr_Shiftright

opportunity of a lifetime....gone....just like that.

fintail

Looks like it got in a crash with a JC Whitney truck. I like the eagles.

omarman

fintail said:

Looks like it got in a crash with a JC Whitney truck. I like the eagles.

I like The Clash.

isellhondas

Anyone know if JC Whitney is still around? Did they ever sell some JUNK!

qbrozen

http://www.jcwhitney.com/

fintail

Just a couple minutes on CL:

Textbook definition of "period colors" - interior is doing that weird thing when the seat stuffing decomposes

Pretty, but actually a little dear still

Quite dear, but looks quite nice - take 25% or so off and save a fortune from fixing up a mess (as many are)

Zombie apocalypse vehicle, I think the model year is incorrect

Don't tempt me

These are done depreciating

fintail

I remember getting JC Whitney catalogs when I was a kid in the late 80s/early 90s. Even then I was amused by the sketchiness of so many of the items. Also, lots of Model A parts, which I found interesting - start with a frame and you could probably build an entire car from a modern catalog.

texases

Too bad that 250C has a carb. And that horsehair padding in the 450SL must smell great!

qbrozen

the unimog is really really cool. too bad it is in such rough shape.

fortee9er

I like them all except for the Unimog and the convertible. What do you do with a large military vehicle? Where do you park/store? Convertibles, at least mine, have the top raised most of the time due to heat, rain, flying debris ob freeways...etc. I'll take a hardtop with a large sunroof any day.

Mr_Shiftright

fintail said:

Just a couple minutes on CL:

Textbook definition of "period colors" - interior is doing that weird thing when the seat stuffing decomposes

Gee, buying a 450SL from a pawn shop. What could possibly go wrong?

Pretty, but actually a little dear still

Not sure showing a photo of a stack of repair bills big enough to choke an elephant is a good idea here. Also, you'd think if the car were precious enough to not show a price, they could have fixed that crater in the driver's side carpeting. They made a diesel version of this car, I think anyway, which would be far more interesting.

Quite dear, but looks quite nice - take 25% or so off and save a fortune from fixing up a mess (as many are)

Might actually be worth if it passes a very rigorous pre-purchase inspection. Repairs on these can be frightening, even to collectors of old Mercedes. For this money, I'd rather have a Jaguar 3.8 Mark II.

Zombie apocalypse vehicle, I think the model year is incorrect

Don't tempt me

Sit tight. Prices will continue to go down.

These are done depreciating

Maybe not, maybe not. I think they will follow early Boxster prices down to around $7500. Very small buyer pool here.

fintail

Any car from a pawn shop is a bit of a risk - you'd have to be insane in maybe a few ways to roll the dice on a 40 year old 14 mpg MB with the potential for a 10K+ engine rebuild.

I don't think there was a diesel variant of that coupe, all are W114 as far as I know. The FI ones seem to be pretty rare too, I only come across carb models on CL anyway.

I think I would rather have a 6.3 over a 3.8. Not to knock the 3.8 which is a huge classic, but the 6.3 is a legend to MB people. Jag will probably be easier to maintain, which is a funny thing to say. Maybe fun to take a 6.3 to a drag strip.

I think a truly mint C140 won't be cheaper than today - they will become like the 80s SECs - neglected ones are cheap and plentiful, but nice ones can be difficult. They won't be truly expensive, and as tuned variants barely exist, maybe not as much as the 80s cars, which I think are helped by the AMG models.

You can get 124 cabrios for $7500 now, but they won't be immaculate. I always assume a genuinely nice car with my claims

Mr_Shiftright said:

Not sure showing a photo of a stack of repair bills big enough to choke an elephant is a good idea here. Also, you'd think if the car were precious enough to not show a price, they could have fixed that crater in the driver's side carpeting. They made a diesel version of this car which I think would be far more interesting.


Maybe not, maybe not. I think they will follow early Boxster prices down to around $7500. Very small buyer pool here.

Mr_Shiftright

Oh, no diesel on that one? Then I must have seen a 300CD! I remember really liking it, but it was years ago.

Sure, any pristine grandma's car with low miles allows you to throw the price guides away, but you and I talk "different"--I'm always talking about "the market" and you like to zero in on particular cars---it's a bell curve kind of focus, nobody's right or wrong.

The values for "drivers" will drop but the values for "show" will stabilize. This makes sense, as "drivers" have needs and "show" cars (presumably) do not.

When you buy the "show" car, in a sense you are buying the owner's receipts at a discounted price, maybe .50 cents on the dollar.

One thing I don't like about the Mercedes 6.3 is the spartan nature of the interior--rock-hard seats, everything stiff and heavy. I'd like to DRIVE the 6.3 for a few days, but I'd much prefer to LIVE IN the Jaguar 3.8 on a day to day basis.

fortee9er

Does anyone know why so many military vehicles are showing up on CL? I see listing for these "deuce and a half" in all parts of the country. The Houston CL has 13 listings for military trucks as of today. Is the Pentagon having a garage sale?

sda

texases said:

Too bad that 250C has a carb. And that horsehair padding in the 450SL must smell great!

When did MB stop using a carb? I thought they were all fuel injected from the early 60's to present. Shows what I know.

Mr_Shiftright

I think MB used Strombergs right up through the mid-70s, maybe even later.

fintail

I think the last carb MB sold in the US was the 280S, the base model W116 S-class, which I think might have been offered until around MY 1976. The carb W114 cars were offered until about this time too, at least 1974. No doubt emissions regulations stopped these, as carb MBs existed in Europe until the late 80s.

sda said:

texases said:

Too bad that 250C has a carb. And that horsehair padding in the 450SL must smell great!

When did MB stop using a carb? I thought they were all fuel injected from the early 60's to present. Shows what I know.

fintail

I think the first diesel MB coupe was the 123, which as you know isn't too rare, and has a cult behind it. MB has even had diesel convertibles in other markets for some time now.

I look at my theoretical value cars as "nice drivers". Cosmetically presentable, roadworthy, above average. You are right, as the overall market includes lesser cars. For something almost marketed as a collectible, there are more than a few neglected 124 cabrios out there, some of them far past redemption.

As I am used to MB interiors, the spartan (in comparison to the gentleman's lounge Jag) 6.3 would be fine with me. They are a bit like a fintail inside.

Mr_Shiftright said:

Oh, no diesel on that one? Then I must have seen a 300CD! I remember really liking it, but it was years ago.

One thing I don't like about the Mercedes 6.3 is the spartan nature of the interior--rock-hard seats, everything stiff and heavy. I'd like to DRIVE the 6.3 for a few days, but I'd much prefer to LIVE IN the Jaguar 3.8 on a day to day basis.

Mr_Shiftright

I certainly wouldn't count on any E320 cabrio become seriously collectible. It's something you'd buy strictly because you'd like to drive it....like say a 450SL, which, after 40+ years, still isn't worth much. Well maybe in 60 years ?

texases

Here's something from Wiki's article on the I-6 MB engine family in that 250C:
"The final incarnation of the M180 line of engines was the 2.5L M123, fitted with the notorious Solex four-barrel carburator in the W123 chassis 250 produced between 1975 to 1985."

Not sold here I imagine, but 1985 with a carb...

xwesx

fortee9er said:

Does anyone know why so many military vehicles are showing up on CL? I see listing for these "deuce and a half" in all parts of the country. The Houston CL has 13 listings for military trucks as of today. Is the Pentagon having a garage sale?

The 6x6 was the standard troop transport (as well as many other variants) for literally generations! I think they are all being replaced now by the new "V-hull" transports that are supposed to be resistant to IEDs. So, yes, many, many of them are being sold at auction now, and all over the world, too.

Just go to www.govplanet.com and type "6x6" in the search engine to see how many of them are up right now... and I think they refresh these auctions every week!

The same is true for humvees, too. Lots and lots of them being auctioned right now.

fintail

There were carb W201 until around 1989, maybe. Not for here, of course. We never had a carb W123 either.

texases said:

Here's something from Wiki's article on the I-6 MB engine family in that 250C:
"The final incarnation of the M180 line of engines was the 2.5L M123, fitted with the notorious Solex four-barrel carburator in the W123 chassis 250 produced between 1975 to 1985."

Not sold here I imagine, but 1985 with a carb...

fintail

Yep, you just won't lose your shirt (not counting maintenance). Like a 107 today, you could keep it as a sunny day car for 15 years, and would probably get your money back when you sold it, assuming you cared for it (and bought it at a decent price).

Mr_Shiftright said:

I certainly wouldn't count on any E320 cabrio become seriously collectible. It's something you'd buy strictly because you'd like to drive it....like say a 450SL, which, after 40+ years, still isn't worth much. Well maybe in 60 years ?

fortee9er

MB used carburetors and fuel injection concurrently. I am going to use the W108 as a frame of reference because I am familiar with it. The W108 models offered a 280S (carburetor), 280SE (fuel injected), and 280SEL (fuel injected, long wheelbase). The W108 chassis ended production in 1972 maybe 1973 not sure.

Mr_Shiftright

You could however, lose your shirt on a 6.3. In terms of restoration, an E320 might be in my league, but not a 6.3.

fintail

No doubt one could send a neglected 6.3 to a specialist shop and have a 100K+ bill when it is completed. Nobody is restoring 124s yet (or maybe never), so it will be easier - worst case scenario is an engine rebuild, and then it might be frankencar time.

Mr_Shiftright said:

You could however, lose your shirt on a 6.3. In terms of restoration, an E320 might be in my league, but not a 6.3.