Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

explorerx4

@qbrozen,
Did you drive a little fast last time dad was in your car?

xwesx

explorerx4 said:

@qbrozen,
Did you drive a little fast last time dad was in your car?

Bwhahahahahah!

He likely did if it was a drive in the Caddy..... !

fintail

I agree. It's one that a person needs to advertise in "The Star", take to local MBCA meets, maybe put on BAT if it comes to that - a regional auction with little advertising was not the way to go. I'm actually surprised it fared as well as it did, especially in 09 when the economy was still weak.

Mr_Shiftright said:

And would probably bring a mere $6K today! Well that one's nice, might bring more because of year and condition, but it's a very bad car to take to an auction. They simply do not do well there for whatever reason.

stickguy

If you want a cheaper coupe that has more "get up and go", W-D just did a 1983 V8. Should cure the acceleration issues.

Only paid $2,500 for it to start. Didn't even need all that much (other than the what they did to turn it into an AMG clone). Though it was running on 6 cylinders when they got it, and I was not paying close enough attention to remember what the reason was.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt6260330/?ref_=ttep_ep11

fintail

Those can be a gamble - if the engine is shot, that's it. Cosmetics are also a challenge to get right for reasonable money - brand enthusiasts will want a factory standard. If I wanted a C126, I would look for a mint original - no more than 15K should be able to find a lovely car with no real needs. Maybe I am a chicken, but I would probably be scared to buy a $2500 car, as I don't have the 500 man-hours the car might need to get back into shape. Maybe Edd would work for me for free? (I haven't seen the episode yet)

The AMG stuff looks very cool, but in the market, it really adds value if applied to the car when new, with supporting documents. The real money is for cars with mechanical work, especially the 6.0 AMG engine.

stickguy

I only was half paying attention. I seem to recall that interior and exterior were actually nice and clean. It just did not seem to be running on all cylinders, but Edd fixed that. They did pull off and replace the heads too. I just missed what the engine issue was, but it was obviously not fatal!

fintail

They got lucky then, but I guess Mike knows enough to find decent cosmetics. A quality paint job might exceed the value of many surviving cars, and the interior has to be difficult to replace correctly, too. Was this a new one where they actually tabulate the labor?

qbrozen

stickguy said:

I only was half paying attention. I seem to recall that interior and exterior were actually nice and clean. It just did not seem to be running on all cylinders, but Edd fixed that. They did pull off and replace the heads too. I just missed what the engine issue was, but it was obviously not fatal!

New injectors and a tuneup fixed it.

the big nasty job was removing the dash to replace the pesky blend doors vacuum pods.

qbrozen

xwesx said:

@qbrozen, Did you drive a little fast last time dad was in your car?

Bwhahahahahah! He likely did if it was a drive in the Caddy..... !

I always drive fast. Hell, I was damn near needing new tires on the Fit in less than 20k miles

stickguy

qbrozen said:

stickguy said:

I only was half paying attention. I seem to recall that interior and exterior were actually nice and clean. It just did not seem to be running on all cylinders, but Edd fixed that. They did pull off and replace the heads too. I just missed what the engine issue was, but it was obviously not fatal!

New injectors and a tuneup fixed it.

the big nasty job was removing the dash to replace the pesky blend doors vacuum pods.

that coupe needed the dash pulled too? I know they had to do that last season on a 560SL they did.

Fin, yes, this was a current season. I think it was 79 man hours? Plus sending out for a paint job.

tjc78

I really like that show.  I usually watch them on the DVR in the basement while on the elliptical.  Wife hates it.  

Recently I caught an old one where they did a Blue early Miata.   Those days Edd rattle canned some body work, which is how many shade tree guys need to do it.   Those guys also looked a lot different then.  

ab348

In the really early ones Edd looked much younger (d'oh - it was close to 15 years ago!) and had a "New Wave" haircut, short on the back and sides but still with the long flowing locks on top. Not much gray hair for him then.

The show has come into some criticism lately from longtime fans who do not like the move to a US shop, the reduced amount of DIY stuff shown being done by Edd and the general level of production values and scripting. They no longer celebrate a few hundred in profit, instead shooting for many thousands.

All that said, it is still my favorite show on Velocity.

fintail

I prefer the British-located ones too, for the cars seldom or never seen here. Of course, for those not in NA, it's the other way around. I remember when they rattle-canned a fender on a blue MB W123, and had a hard time getting it to be remotely close to a correct color.

79 man hours at a minimum of $75/hour, and a decent paint job around here probably starts at $7500. That ought to buy a nice SEC.

texases

I do like that they've started giving the hours Edd puts in. Add that cost, and they barely break even (if that) much of the time. But great to watch.

gsemike

texases said:

I do like that they've started giving the hours Edd puts in. Add that cost, and they barely break even (if that) much of the time. But great to watch.

I like the show, but they always never seem to make that much for the work they put in. It's always a couple of grand. At other other end, Gas Monkey drops a car and makes 40 grand. Giving the behind the scenes look must hurt them sometimes when it comes to negotiating for real.

ab348

I don't believe anything I see on Gas Monkey.

Mr_Shiftright

I'm pretty deep into the classic car biz and from all the dealers and workshops I see---it's nothing like TV.

If you're talking about cars under $50K, it is extremely difficult to make any money on restoration; however, if you are a consignor, and have a showroom, and don't have to dig into the cars very much, you can make a pretty good profit. But you have to hustle, go to the auctions, cold-call on ads, be a great salesperson and an excellent marketer. Even then, overhead is pretty high.

As for show quality restorations, you simply cannot do them in the time frame you see on TV--what you CAN do in that time frame is "down and dirty".

texases

Those shows that turn out cars in a week or three are a laugh. One show that seems fairly realistic is Fantomworks. Cars seem to take 6 months - 12 months, and the costs are huge, and they typically report labor hours and sometimes costs. Amazing what some folks will spend on their not-so-special but near-and-dear cars. $100k for some.

Mr_Shiftright

I just looked at an early Ferrari that took 6 years and $450,000.

fintail

Is Fantom works the one in Canada?

I wonder what the MB Classic Center (Irvine or Germany) would charge for a nut and bolt fintail restoration.

texases

The FantomWorks shop's in Norfolk, VA.

ab348

texases said:

Those shows that turn out cars in a week or three are a laugh. One show that seems fairly realistic is Fantomworks. Cars seem to take 6 months - 12 months, and the costs are huge, and they typically report labor hours and sometimes costs. Amazing what some folks will spend on their not-so-special but near-and-dear cars. $100k for some.

Yeah, some of the bills on FantomWorks are staggering. But then again they seem to do a lot of stuff the hard way and rack up the hours.

I used to like that show a lot more than I do now, after I've seen most of them. It follows the standard reality show formula of repeating scenes over after every commercial break, and the later shows have more manufactured drama in them than I like - a lot of it is just so obviously staged. They seem to take the route of making certain parts of the job seem much more difficult than they really are in order to create tension, which I don't care for.

OTOH it seems they have more than their fair share of clients who ask for very silly things to be done and money is no object to them. .

Mr_Shiftright

Well that might be 1500 to 2000 man hours, soooooo......

fintail

VA makes sense, lots of money floating around there.

Wasn't there a show about a restoration shop in Canada, maybe ON? I vaguely remember that, and they'd have odd cars there too.

gsemike

I think Graveyard Cars can be pretty good too. Sometimes the resto can be a few years.  That guys mopar body of knowledge is astonishing 

explorerx4

@fintail,
The show about the shop in Canada is Restoration Garage.
Have seen some promos for new episodes lately.

fortee9er

Gas Monkey jumped the shark a long time ago. It became more of a sit-com than a car show.

Mr_Shiftright

What I think is fascinating is these shops that actually MAKE entire cars from old blueprints. So if you want a copy of the 1960 LeMans winning Testa Rossa, they say "Yeah, we can do that". And, by god, it looks just like the real thing, down to the last nut and bolt. You could fool anyone who didn't look at the VIN plate.

So these are more than "replicas" really, because they will often use an actual Ferrari motor and other parts, and build an exact copy of the frame and body. Or a Maserati or a Cobra or whatever....

Whatever you can pay, that is.... for

qbrozen

stickguy said:

stickguy said:

I only was half paying attention. I seem to recall that interior and exterior were actually nice and clean. It just did not seem to be running on all cylinders, but Edd fixed that. They did pull off and replace the heads too. I just missed what the engine issue was, but it was obviously not fatal!

New injectors and a tuneup fixed it.

the big nasty job was removing the dash to replace the pesky blend doors vacuum pods.

that coupe needed the dash pulled too? I know they had to do that last season on a 560SL they did. Fin, yes, this was a current season. I think it was 79 man hours? Plus sending out for a paint job.

Oh sorry. I thought the 560sl was what you were referring to. I have not seen a benz this year. For some reason, my dvr wont record them and on demand only picked up the first 4 episodes. Last one on there is the electric maserati.

fintail

Thanks. I usually don't get into such shows, but that one wasn't so bad, maybe because a lot of the cars were restorations vs tacky customs. If I want the latter, I can go down the nostalgia route and watch "Pimp My Ride" on Youtube

That makes me think of the couple of shows where a beloved idle old car is "stolen", then customized and returned to the owner. A friend of mine threatened to do that to the fintail, and I would receive it back in orange with ZZ Top stripes and a blown 454 under the hood. I wouldn't be pleased

explorerx4 said:

@fintail,
The show about the shop in Canada is Restoration Garage.
Have seen some promos for new episodes lately.

fintail

A few weeks ago I bought a cheap dashcam to run in the fintail, and when plugged in, the car rejected it like a transplanted organ from another species (or maybe it rejected the car). So I got a windshield mount for the phone, with the idea that I would use the phone as a dashcam. The results are imperfect. The big issue is the windshield mount obstructs some vision, maybe due to the steepish angle of the windshield. The mount is excellent if one wants to use it for nav display, but this doesn't work perfectly for video. It also vibrates/shakes more than I like.

A few short videos from inside a fintail:

First, I didn't notice I had it muted. I drove for at least half an hour before I spotted this.

https://youtu.be/rQPwM9NWgbc

Breakthrough, I un-muted it, just as a song that suits the car was coming on the radio. The sound capture of the phone is also odd - it picks up on the radio much louder than it sounds in the car, and doesn't let much engine noise come through. There's also a faint squeaky rattle from the bobblehead located just below the camera, and you can see it reflected on the windshield. I like driving through this part of town, with often light traffic, and mid-century houses. This is the "affordable" side of town, with houses usually from around 500-800K:

https://youtu.be/OvR8lI7U-VA

Other half of this video, listening to a local AM station that plays old music (not just the usual oldies):

https://youtu.be/PXAjSXyQkmg

This method of camming is adequate I suppose, but I'd like better. Maybe try a GoPro next, as prices keep coming down. I want something with internal power, as I don't want it to run off the car.

sda

fintail said:

A few weeks ago I bought a cheap dashcam to run in the fintail, and when plugged in, the car rejected it like a transplanted organ from another species (or maybe it rejected the car). So I got a windshield mount for the phone, with the idea that I would use the phone as a dashcam. The results are imperfect. The big issue is the windshield mount obstructs some vision, maybe due to the steepish angle of the windshield. The mount is excellent if one wants to use it for nav display, but this doesn't work perfectly for video. It also vibrates/shakes more than I like.

A few short videos from inside a fintail:

First, I didn't notice I had it muted. I drove for at least half an hour before I spotted this.

https://youtu.be/rQPwM9NWgbc

Breakthrough, I un-muted it, just as a song that suits the car was coming on the radio. The sound capture of the phone is also odd - it picks up on the radio much louder than it sounds in the car, and doesn't let much engine noise come through. There's also a faint squeaky rattle from the bobblehead located just below the camera, and you can see it reflected on the windshield. I like driving through this part of town, with often light traffic, and mid-century houses. This is the "affordable" side of town, with houses usually from around 500-800K:

https://youtu.be/OvR8lI7U-VA

Other half of this video, listening to a local AM station that plays old music (not just the usual oldies):

https://youtu.be/PXAjSXyQkmg

This method of camming is adequate I suppose, but I'd like better. Maybe try a GoPro next, as prices keep coming down. I want something with internal power, as I don't want it to run off the car.

I enjoyed seeing your surrounding area and looking over the hood and seeing the MB hood ornament as you travel never gets old.

fintail

Thanks. Yeah, it's a special feeling driving behind the old style star, which is a bit larger than that on later models. You don't notice it after awhile, but it really sticks out in the videos.

sda said:

I enjoyed seeing your surrounding area and looking over the hood and seeing the MB hood ornament as you travel never gets old.

Mr_Shiftright

I always like driving my fintail---the star pointing up, that nice curvature of the hood. It was a really good car--I drove it everywhere. Of course it was owned by the head of the Mercedes Technical School, so whenever baby needed something, I'd just ask.

You can buy different lenses that attach to your smart phone and that might solve your problem. I have a fisheye and a macro. Pretty neat!

fintail

I need to find a head of a technical school to take in my car as a pet project It really does drive nicely though, it feels like a more modern car compared to other cars of the era that I have experienced.

I'll look into lenses, but I think the issue is the size and location of the mount vs the location of the lens, and how it all interacts with the windshield angle. It might take some homework and creativity.

isellhondas

fintail said:

A few weeks ago I bought a cheap dashcam to run in the fintail, and when plugged in, the car rejected it like a transplanted organ from another species (or maybe it rejected the car). So I got a windshield mount for the phone, with the idea that I would use the phone as a dashcam. The results are imperfect. The big issue is the windshield mount obstructs some vision, maybe due to the steepish angle of the windshield. The mount is excellent if one wants to use it for nav display, but this doesn't work perfectly for video. It also vibrates/shakes more than I like.

A few short videos from inside a fintail:

First, I didn't notice I had it muted. I drove for at least half an hour before I spotted this.

https://youtu.be/rQPwM9NWgbc

Breakthrough, I un-muted it, just as a song that suits the car was coming on the radio. The sound capture of the phone is also odd - it picks up on the radio much louder than it sounds in the car, and doesn't let much engine noise come through. There's also a faint squeaky rattle from the bobblehead located just below the camera, and you can see it reflected on the windshield. I like driving through this part of town, with often light traffic, and mid-century houses. This is the "affordable" side of town, with houses usually from around 500-800K:

https://youtu.be/OvR8lI7U-VA

Other half of this video, listening to a local AM station that plays old music (not just the usual oldies):

https://youtu.be/PXAjSXyQkmg

This method of camming is adequate I suppose, but I'd like better. Maybe try a GoPro next, as prices keep coming down. I want something with internal power, as I don't want it to run off the car.

The song playing was "Telstar" we all hated it at tie time and when it came on someone would always push one of the other radio buttons!

isellhondas

Now, the video has ended and I can't get rid of the music.....ah...it's gone!

Mr_Shiftright

fintail said:

I need to find a head of a technical school to take in my car as a pet project It really does drive nicely though, it feels like a more modern car compared to other cars of the era that I have experienced.

I'll look into lenses, but I think the issue is the size and location of the mount vs the location of the lens, and how it all interacts with the windshield angle. It might take some homework and creativity.

I had a similar problem with my car but I finally found a mount that screws into the base of the tachometer on the MINI, so it avoids the rear view mirror, and yet sits low enough to not block the driver's view.

Do you use any special APP to use the phone as a dashcam? Seems to me that just using the phone's video memory is going to fill it up pretty quickly. Or does yours dump right to a chip?

fintail

I like Telstar, very space age, I think it fits with the fintail, which was an advanced car in its day. It also might be the first electronic/synthesized song that was a mainstream hit, kind of genesis for the huge electronic music movement of today. But maybe if I heard it 20x per day in 1962, I'd tire of it.

isellhondas said:

Now, the video has ended and I can't get rid of the music.....ah...it's gone!

fintail

As you probably remember with your fintail, I don't have that kind of mounting option. For me, it is windshield or maybe rear view mirror (I suspect that would also transmit vibrations).

I have two free dashcam apps on my phone, the one I used yesterday is called "CamOnRoad". There are a number of free cam apps. I save to the Micro SD card - my phone has 32GB, I think, so I could store a lot, but external memory is cheap these days. Last year I got a 256GB micro SD that the hardwired dashcam in my modern car doesn't like, I need to move it to the phone.

Mr_Shiftright said:

I had a similar problem with my car but I finally found a mount that screws into the base of the tachometer on the MINI, so it avoids the rear view mirror, and yet sits low enough to not block the driver's view.

Do you use any special APP to use the phone as a dashcam? Seems to me that just using the phone's video memory is going to fill it up pretty quickly. Or does yours dump right to a chip?

fintail

For anyone interested, here's an image from the hardwired properly mounted cam in my modern car. This morning there were lenticular clouds around Mt. Rainier, a sign of light rain to come in a few hours:

https://youtu.be/JZJ26zhCFOA

A couple hours later, cloudy, and it rained within the next hour:

https://youtu.be/92OJnLmu6j4

berri

I liked Telstar too, maybe because of the times. Generally I'm not an instrumentals fan either. But I think good, creative arts should evoke feelings of like or not, rather than ambivalence.

fintail

I visited the auto auction this morning, first time I had stopped by in months. Not much of interest other than the usual assortment of well-used old metal, but a few things caught my eye.

First, they had a couple of early XJ40 Jags, like this (pics from the listing site, not me - the Volvo wasn't there):



These amuse me both as the interiors suddenly seem fall apart and gain a little mildew after a certain age, and because the body hardware was still exceptional on both cars - the doors opened and shut better than some new cars.

Then there was grandma's Grand Prix:



1988, digital dash, a pile of paperwork, spotless interior made out of gobs of hard plastic, sitting on a space saver spare. The rest the wheels had very 80s looking hubcaps that did a good job of simulating an alloy wheel. The car had obviously been cared for, and I suspect was a donation out of an estate. Not many of these around that aren't absolutely worn out and trashed.

And the one that pushed my buttons, kind of the reason I decided to look:



1973 450SE, dark blue on brown. This is a small bumper car wearing OEM Bosch Euro lights that have some value. The interior was fairly pristine, better than I see in many 2 year old cars, and almost none of the stuffing collapse seen in MBs of this era. It still had the likely original Becker Europa Stereo head unit. The outside didn't have a mark, zero rust, and the trim was not oxidized or rusty. It even had a car cover in the trunk. Someone cherished this car for a long time. I don't know if it had mechanical issue, but cosmetically, it would be lovely with just a polish and wax. I hope someone rescues it.

berri

I don't understand why Washington apparently has plates stay with the car. Most states do the opposite. Seems it would be cheaper that other way?

sda

fintail said:

For anyone interested, here's an image from the hardwired properly mounted cam in my modern car. This morning there were lenticular clouds around Mt. Rainier, a sign of light rain to come in a few hours:

https://youtu.be/JZJ26zhCFOA

A couple hours later, cloudy, and it rained within the next hour:

https://youtu.be/92OJnLmu6j4

Beautiful evergreens, certainly different from the pine and oak trees common in our area. Smooth, crisp video, but I enjoyed the video from Fintail better, looking over that
shapely hood and MB hood ornament, it just felt special.

fintail

Yep, plates here have stayed with the car forever, I don't know if that has ever changed.

And the fintail hood and ornament does give kind of a stately view. I'll probably take video again the next time I drive it,

isellhondas

I'm probablyhttp://seattle.craigslist.org/est/cto/5942076632.html the only one who thinks this is cool!


http://seattle.craigslist.org/est/cto/5942076632.html

uplanderguy

I definitely like that.

Designed by Brooks Stevens, who also designed 1962-64 Studebaker cars (besides Avanti), and did those Studebaker prototypes we were discussing on that other thread just yesterday.

texases

Neat jeep. I was surprised to see one driving near my house a while back. 

qbrozen

I definitely dig it. Just would never own it.