Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

uplanderguy

Champs are all over the place, price-wise. I can handle the wide bed when it's the long one, but even I have a problem with the wide bed that's a short bed, LOL.

The Champ was introduced in '60 with the old, double-sided Stude pickup bed with external fenders. For '61 they added the wide bed, which had been used by Dodge in '59 and '60. Studebaker added a new front panel and a tailgate with "Studebaker" stamped in it, and part of the deal was that Studebaker would provide all Dodge replacement beds of that style from that point on. I'd met the chief engineer of the Champ and he kidded that they "gave me $25 and told me to come up with a new bed", LOL.

I actually think the styling of the Dodge bed matched the styling of the Champ cab, better than the Dodge cab. Width is another story, though.

The Champ was America's lowest-priced pickup, was more upholstered inside than other trucks of the time, offered a full-width rear window as standard equipment, and introduced the options of sliding rear window and 5-speed trans to the U.S. pickup market. It was advertised as being able to haul more than other pickups too, but that's because it was rated the same but the truck itself weighed less.

I like the styling and the massive grille. I grew up on Chevys, but I think their concurrent pickups are nothing in the looks department, and other than the unibody Ford pickups, don't think theirs are anything great to look at either.

sda

The wheels on the T-bird are from later model Ford products but don't look out of place. Dad had those wheels on his '77 Grand Marquis.

stickguy

I like that Champ. probably a beast to drive. And that is the weirdest shift pattern I have ever seen.

uplanderguy

Only 2,509 '64 Champs of all styles and lengths were built. Last one was built on 12/27/63.

'64 Champs were considered the "8E" series, same as '63, so I believe there really weren't any differences from '63 to '64. The '60's were 5E, '61 6E, and '62, 7E.

uplanderguy

I like this Champ; long wide bed, and whitewalls (which I like on a Champ). Mr. Ed's truck:

http://s571.photobucket.com/user/BobPalma/media/mred2_zps35363445.jpg.html

ab348

I don't mind Omaha Orange and like white interiors, but I'm not crazy about what they did with the interior on this one.

uplanderguy

I didn't even see the interior pics before; I agree, ab348.

"Omaha Orange" is actually what Studebaker called it, so I'm impressed that's in the ad.

qbrozen

I also came across a 2-tone orange/white Champ, but its the long bed, and I find that odd looking.
https://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/dealer/studebaker/champ/1913978.html

uplanderguy

I'm not a fan of that one, either.

An Akron friend has a bone-stock red '64 Champ, long, wide bed, with a cap on it. Very nice truck.

It was built with the factory "Conestoga Camper" but that was sold separately from the truck by the original owner, who owned Mack's Auto Sales, Stude dealer in Akron. He bought the truck new as a leftover in South Bend after production there ended.

stickguy

I only like short bed pick ups.

Mr_Shiftright

You have to be careful of when a dealer says "driver quality"--that could be a code word for "rat". In any event, I see that someone painted OVER the rust and dents on that Champ pickup bed---never a good sign. Also trim is scratched up, door jambs sloppy.

I dunno...this truck is all wrong, yet it's a vintage pickup, so inherently interesting merely for being so basically functional.

I'd guess around $7K-$8K at public auction.

qbrozen

which one are you looking at, shifty? I looked at both on my phone, so not a good look at the pics.

Mr_Shiftright

The orange one. Look at the photo of the bed floor. That should tell you the quality of the restoration. To be fair, getting a clean straight bed is the hardest part of restoring an old pickup. Reminds me of when people would drive their cars south of the border for a budget restoration.

uplanderguy

I was at a swap meet at the old Newman and Altman parts place in South Bend, probably twenty years ago, and there was a NOS long-bed left side panel for a Champ, waiting to be picked up. Someone who worked there told me it was the last one they had.

The parts have moved twice since then, but I think I've seen some Champ bed parts in stock at the latest place; not sure if short or long.

uplanderguy

A couple of Champ weak areas are the cab rear corners, and also on stick shifts, Champs went to swing pedals in '63 and I've heard several times that the clutch linkage wasn't that great--as the trucks got old, sometimes the clutch pedal just goes to the floor because of a part that breaks.

gsemike

Long Island Classics

http://longisland.craigslist.org/cto/5966671339.html Pretty neat little time capsule for not much $$$. About the same size as a Fit

http://longisland.craigslist.org/cto/5954829186.html 57 BelAir post. That hood has to go

http://longisland.craigslist.org/cto/5986262071.html Very clean looking Mark V

http://longisland.craigslist.org/cto/5953130116.html 56 Buick 4 door

http://longisland.craigslist.org/cto/5958139017.html 55 GMC. They used massive nameplates even back then

http://longisland.craigslist.org/cto/5975784652.html MGB. Rust issues make me assume it is a parts car

http://longisland.craigslist.org/cto/5973012613.html World's largest coupe

http://longisland.craigslist.org/cto/5980015661.html Chevelle SS clone. Wonder how close it is to being ready for paint

ab348

Those postwar Lincolns all look really awkward to me. The rebodied next generation wasn't much better-looking.

I would prefer a '55 Chevy pickup to the GMC version shown, which always looked kind of grouchy to me The Chevys were just pretty up front.

Mr_Shiftright

RE: '78 Accord -- I dunno, says it's burning oil and smoking....could be a valve guide though.

57 Chevy Post --- the hood is silly and the car sits funny.

79 Lincoln Mark V -- price is fair enough

56 Buick---whatever happened to "truth in advertising"? Well, no big deal, price is too high but not by that much. Seller could have told us which trim line this is, but I know, typing is hard....

57 GMC --I'm not seein' $27,000 in those photos. I'm seein' $19.5K

76 MGB -- bad year, rust--take it to the vet for a peaceful ending.

47 Lincoln Continental --nobody wants these anymore. Price is fair enough but it's a long row to hoe back to glory.

66 Chevelle -- apparently, details on this car are a closely guarded secret. No idea what it's worth but workmanship does not look all that promising so far. Looks like something someone may have given up on.

fintail

If the Accord was really mint without the engine issue, it might be a nice rig - those were good cars in places without rust, I still see a first gen one here and there.

berri

Those early Accord's were decent cars for the time except for rusted fenders. Other than rust, owners seemed to like them and the Civic as well for that matter. IIRC Honda had put an extended warranty on them in response, but didn't own one and don't recall the details.

uplanderguy

There were also issues with CVCC engines of that period.

tjc78

Love that Mark V.  

gsemike

66 Chevelle -- apparently, details on this car are a closely guarded secret. No idea what it's worth but workmanship does not look all that promising so far. Looks like something someone may have given up on.

Those words 'big block Chevy' carry a lot of weight here, much more so than large displacement engines from Chevy's GM stablements. I wonder if the premium that a 454 warrants here doesn't apply around the whole country?

I agree about the workmanship. My thinking is could you do some small job and a basic paint job in a medium color and have a big block driver? Some pieces are there already

Mr_Shiftright

Depends on which 454 and how it's built. There are some 454 boat anchors out there, too, so some information on where he sourced the engine would have been helpful.

qbrozen

Mr_Shiftright said:

Depends on which 454 and how it's built. There are some 454 boat anchors out there, too, so some information on where he sourced the engine would have been helpful.

YES!

And this happens regardless of engine, I find. For example, the most popular swaps are chevy 350 and ford 5.0 (I think), and people will advertise that, but not where the heck it came from or what has been done to it. It could be a lousy 140hp 5.0 from an early Fox body Mustang or a 175hp Chevy 350 from a K5 Blazer.

That 454 could be a 230hp version from a late '80s pickup.

stickguy

Just watched wheeler dealers episode where they did a 73 Camaro 350. Which being a dog was the biggest problem with the car. A slow slug with IIRC 145 HP.

Mr_Shiftright

How could you verify that the motor is a "4 bolt main"? Drop the pan in his driveway? At best, if there's no engine suffix code stamped on the block, you can take off a valve cover and at least see what heads are on there. If they are funky bad-breathers, then you know something's up.

ab348

I saw the Wheeler Dealers Trading Up ep last night where Mike bought a '72 Corvette with a 350 and complained that it was down on power. Took it to a shop with a dyno, found it was putting out 145 HP at the rear wheels. The shop changed it to an electronic ignition to get rid of the points and hey presto, 195 HP at the wheels. That sounded fishy to me.

Having said that, I loved the car. Original paint, nice condition, War Bonnet Yellow. He paid $17K, sold it for $22.5K.

berri

I had a Ford 302 V8 on a 99 Explorer and it never did run all that well. Ford's reps answer to all the pinging issues - use premium even though the owners manual recommended regular. And you know what, the premium fuel didn't make much difference either. At least it only leaked fluids on the garage floor and didn't have gasket replacement problems like the 3.8 V6 I owned on a different Ford.

Mr_Shiftright

302s like to stretch their timing chains.

isellhondas

ab348 said:

I saw the Wheeler Dealers Trading Up ep last night where Mike bought a '72 Corvette with a 350 and complained that it was down on power. Took it to a shop with a dyno, found it was putting out 145 HP at the rear wheels. The shop changed it to an electronic ignition to get rid of the points and hey presto, 195 HP at the wheels. That sounded fishy to me.

Having said that, I loved the car. Original paint, nice condition, War Bonnet Yellow. He paid $17K, sold it for $22.5K.

There is no way replacing a points ignition system with electronic ignition is going to add 50 H.P.

We used to do the conversion in the "old days" and nobody could tell any difference in performance!

stickguy

probably other stuff going on too. could have been dead parts in there. I doubt it was an engine at 100% other than what they swapped in.

xwesx

I suspect they added a few stickers to the rear window at the same time. All told? Yeah, I can see 50 HP for all that!

Mr_Shiftright

I've seen a 50 HP gain after only 3 beers.

ab348

Maybe they installed a set of yellow spark plug wires.

tjc78

Mr_Shiftright said:

302s like to stretch their timing chains.

After 86 that was no longer an issue, from what I've read.

isellhondas

Paging Uplander....

This shouldn't take much to cherry out!

http://seattle.craigslist.org/est/cto/5988564167.html

Anyone?

fintail

Someone put a bit of work into that, have to give credit for thinking it out.

Regarding electronic ignition, my fintail is converted - I don't know if there's a performance gain, but it sure is easier to live with. The best small investment I've made.

qbrozen

isellhondas said:

Paging Uplander.... This shouldn't take much to cherry out! http://seattle.craigslist.org/est/cto/5988564167.html Anyone?

Posting deleted. 

qbrozen

This seller obviously has no idea what the term sleeper means: http://ebay.to/2kDKFqW

If you spent $18k on a used engine and some sheet metal panels, you are hopeless: http://ebay.to/2l7SxP7

stickguy

I would love a Duster in that color. Just put the 340 back in it. And a 4 speed. And normal tires in the back.

qbrozen

I like it, just not $23k worth of like.

qbrozen

Ughhhh....the automatic trans seriously makes me want to cry:
http://ebay.to/2ksF4l4

Mr_Shiftright

tjc78 said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

302s like to stretch their timing chains.

After 86 that was no longer an issue, from what I've read.

thanks good to know that.

Mr_Shiftright

qbrozen said:

This seller obviously has no idea what the term sleeper means: http://ebay.to/2kDKFqW

If you spent $18k on a used engine and some sheet metal panels, you are hopeless: http://ebay.to/2l7SxP7

Yeah that hood scoop is real stealth all right.

'66 Nova---I'm wary of "bitsa"cars----bits of this and bits of that. They never quite go together like an all-original car.

Mr_Shiftright

I'm entitled this batch: "Are You Serious?"

Rust, dents and a mighty 318 V-8:

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/cto/5989391831.html

Misplaced decimal point?:

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/pen/cto/5960525261.html

Good for making Chinese fenceposts?

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/scz/cto/5989488287.html

Another misplaced decimal:

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/cto/5968983670.html

fintail

It's rare that one can say the best car on a list is a 1974 Saab

berri

SAAB - after a few years of ownership rhymes with sob

qbrozen

How bout a roundup of Dodges?

1972 Dodge Dart 2 Door

http://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/dealer/dodge/dart/1890120.html

1974 Dodge Dart Coupe

http://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/dealer/dodge/dart/1895080.html

1973 Dodge Dart

http://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/dealer/dodge/dart/1911478.html

1972 Dodge Dart

http://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/dealer/dodge/dart/1884475.html

Or maybe an AMC?

1963 AMC Rambler

http://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/dealer/amc/rambler/1790883.html

1960 AMC Rambler American Nash

http://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/carsforsale/amc/unspecified/1907917.html

1973 AMC Javelin Coupe

http://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/dealer/amc/javelin/1912590.html

stickguy

I like a few of the Dodges. Though probably because I have fond memories (beer fuzzy of course) of my 74 Duster I had in HS.

and for some odd reason I like the 63 Rambler, but how the heck does that twin stick work?