Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

Mr_Shiftright

Michaell said:

A cardiologist friend of my dad's had a 450SLC. Always thought it was a nice car, if a bit ungainly in proportion.

The German Buick Reatta but with nicer seats.

qbrozen

omarman said:

Latest Torino search on clumbus CL

I always look and smile at the S&H Torinos (Torini, Torinites?) but I can never put a value on them. Because I never wanted one. I just like to look.

This 72 Gran Torino looked good at first. It's not a sportsroof I know. And it's not running. And no pics underneath but under the hood it looks bad, rusty, yuck. Seller wants it out of his driveway for $2500/offer. Seller needs to want it gone a little harder and go much softer on the price.

And then this 1970 Cobra from dayton area popped up. What a strange beast! Those options! That tach! No high back buckets but plenty of bench seat 70s style! Without the buckets you are stuck with the column shift automatic. No VIN listed but appears to be legit J code ram air through the hood option with a 429cj. But doesn't show any signs of having drag pack. Too bad though. Without drag pack and scj upgrade then it's really not a $50k car. Still a great cruiser/hobby car.

edited to add: That rim blow wheel! Somebody had fun ordering that car.

Always surprises me that people want a boatload of money and can't even take a decent pic.

ab348

I remember seeing a lot of '70 Torinos with that striped cloth. I think it was also used in Mavericks of that era. I like it less now than I did then. Bench seat/column shift wasn't that uncommon in muscle cars. A friend has a '68 4-4-2 with a 3.91 rear gear that has that setup. Thing runs out of breath early but will leave black marks on the pavement all day long.

sda

omarman said:

Latest Torino search on clumbus CL

I always look and smile at the S&H Torinos (Torini, Torinites?) but I can never put a value on them. Because I never wanted one. I just like to look.

This 72 Gran Torino looked good at first. It's not a sportsroof I know. And it's not running. And no pics underneath but under the hood it looks bad, rusty, yuck. Seller wants it out of his driveway for $2500/offer. Seller needs to want it gone a little harder and go much softer on the price.

And then this 1970 Cobra from dayton area popped up. What a strange beast! Those options! That tach! No high back buckets but plenty of bench seat 70s style! Without the buckets you are stuck with the column shift automatic. No VIN listed but appears to be legit J code ram air through the hood option with a 429cj. But doesn't show any signs of having drag pack. Too bad though. Without drag pack and scj upgrade then it's really not a $50k car. Still a great cruiser/hobby car.

edited to add: That rim blow wheel! Somebody had fun ordering that car.

I cringe when I see the seller states that a car has leather and it is not, its vinyl!

isellhondas

I love it when people advertise cars as having "all" leather! If they knew how little leather those seats actually have! I will say they seem to do a great job matching up the leather with the vinyl!

uplanderguy

I just looked at the ad for that '72 Gran Torino and that town is five miles from where I live!

You're right, honda, most cars with leather seating have it only on the seat inserts/facing...and no '72 Torino ever had one bit of leather in its interior from Ford!

Right after, "Ran when parked", "A/C needs recharged", and "all original", "leather interior" is probably the biggest B.S. in most cars for sale ads, LOL.

sda

It always gets me when the seller states the car is in excellent condition, all kinds of parts have been replaced, new tires, brakes, completely serviced..oh yeah, I don't use the ac so I can't tell you if it works, or ac needs charged. Right $$$ Why didn't you do it and make the car that more attractive to buyers?

fintail

I am sure the widow with the SLC wasn't really taken advantage of. As I don't have time or space, I wouldn't really want a needy one even if it was free. Lots of work and not a lot of upside.

MB ads are the worst for "leather" claims. Tex fools everyone.

I also like "all original" - with new paint, new chrome, new interior, new glass, and incorrect tires.

sda

fintail said:

I am sure the widow with the SLC wasn't really taken advantage of. As I don't have time or space, I wouldn't really want a needy one even if it was free. Lots of work and not a lot of upside.

MB ads are the worst for "leather" claims. Tex fools everyone.

I also like "all original" - with new paint, new chrome, new interior, new glass, and incorrect tires.

"all original", indeed

qbrozen

sda said:

It always gets me when the seller states the car is in excellent condition, all kinds of parts have been replaced, new tires, brakes, completely serviced..oh yeah, I don't use the ac so I can't tell you if it works, or ac needs charged. Right $$$ Why didn't you do it and make the car that more attractive to buyers?

I just read one last night where in the "cons" column, the seller wrote "horn doesn't work." This was on a classic car with probably a good $20k invested in it.

andre1969

Well, as of roughly 7:30 pm last night, I am no longer the owner of a 1985 Silverado. So, that gets the fleet down to 7. The current roommate of one of my former roommates needed a vehicle. I tried to talk him out of it, because it needs a LOT of work, and this kid is at kind of a rough patch in life, so I figured selling something this needy would be kicking him when he's down.

BUT, he wanted it really bad, so I gave in. I was thinking about getting rid of it this year, anyway, so this actually saves me some hassle of trying to sell it, with a worst-case scenario of giving up and calling the junkyard to come get it.

Anyway, it's still going to be around for a little bit, while he gets it roadworthy enough to move. Fortunately, he only lives two doors down! Ironically, my grandparents sold a truck to the people who used to live in that same house, back in 1982. It was an '81 Dodge D50 Ram. It pulled a sudden acceleration stunt at the gas station one day, and that spooked Grandmom enough that she made Granddad get rid of it. I guess it ended up being a good truck though, because I think the neighbors had it into the early 1990's.

I took a few pics of the Silverado this morning, after I inflated one of the tires that had almost gone flat. I just hope this kid knows what he's getting into, because he's got a lot of work cut out for him!

sda

andre1969 said:

Well, as of roughly 7:30 pm last night, I am no longer the owner of a 1985 Silverado. So, that gets the fleet down to 7. The current roommate of one of my former roommates needed a vehicle. I tried to talk him out of it, because it needs a LOT of work, and this kid is at kind of a rough patch in life, so I figured selling something this needy would be kicking him when he's down.

BUT, he wanted it really bad, so I gave in. I was thinking about getting rid of it this year, anyway, so this actually saves me some hassle of trying to sell it, with a worst-case scenario of giving up and calling the junkyard to come get it.

Anyway, it's still going to be around for a little bit, while he gets it roadworthy enough to move. Fortunately, he only lives two doors down! Ironically, my grandparents sold a truck to the people who used to live in that same house, back in 1982. It was an '81 Dodge D50 Ram. It pulled a sudden acceleration stunt at the gas station one day, and that spooked Grandmom enough that she made Granddad get rid of it. I guess it ended up being a good truck though, because I think the neighbors had it into the early 1990's.

I took a few pics of the Silverado this morning, after I inflated one of the tires that had almost gone flat. I just hope this kid knows what he's getting into, because he's got a lot of work cut out for him!

I'm sure you're a little sad to see it go. The truck reminds me a lot of the first new vehicle dad bought when we moved to VA in '76. It was a long bed '76 GMC Sierra 15, two tone, solid red body and white top. It had the 350 4bbl, full time all wheel drive, auto, ps, pb, am radio, gauge package, full wheel covers. IIRC it had Uniroyal L78-15 all season, but look like snow tread bias ply tires. It was a hard riding, fun truck that rarely got above 10mpg.

uplanderguy

Seriously, I bet that was a very sharp truck when new. Looks like it was nicely equipped.

xwesx

andre1969 said:

Well, as of roughly 7:30 pm last night, I am no longer the owner of a 1985 Silverado. So, that gets the fleet down to 7. The current roommate of one of my former roommates needed a vehicle. I tried to talk him out of it, because it needs a LOT of work, and this kid is at kind of a rough patch in life, so I figured selling something this needy would be kicking him when he's down.

BUT, he wanted it really bad, so I gave in. I was thinking about getting rid of it this year, anyway, so this actually saves me some hassle of trying to sell it, with a worst-case scenario of giving up and calling the junkyard to come get it.

Anyway, it's still going to be around for a little bit, while he gets it roadworthy enough to move. Fortunately, he only lives two doors down! Ironically, my grandparents sold a truck to the people who used to live in that same house, back in 1982. It was an '81 Dodge D50 Ram. It pulled a sudden acceleration stunt at the gas station one day, and that spooked Grandmom enough that she made Granddad get rid of it. I guess it ended up being a good truck though, because I think the neighbors had it into the early 1990's.

I took a few pics of the Silverado this morning, after I inflated one of the tires that had almost gone flat. I just hope this kid knows what he's getting into, because he's got a lot of work cut out for him!

That day comes for all of them! I'm sure I'll feel the same way about most of the vehicles in my fleet when it comes time to part ways.

It was a good move on your part, though, as you really don't have a use for it anymore.

explorerx4

Back in the day, when pickup truck rear bumpers could give or take bump.

Michaell

@andre1969 - if you were clear with him about the truck's needs, you should have a clear conscience.

You still driving the Park Avenue? I know you've talked about replacing it for, what, 3-4 years now?

andre1969

You still driving the Park Avenue? I know you've talked about replacing it for, what, 3-4 years now?

Nah, unfortunately the Park Avenue is terminal, as well. It'll probably be the next to go. It has electrical issues and tends to kill the battery, so towards the end of its run I was driving around with one of those portable jump-start things. It also needs suspension work, brake work, rear shocks, and has other issues. The fuel lines are rusting, and I think the brake lines rusted through because one day it finally lost its brakes...fortunately while in the yard! I dropped the insurance on it and turned in the tags back in October.

The 2012 Ram has been my daily driver, and it's up to around 37,000 miles. I had toyed with the idea of trading it right around the 5 year mark, so I could get into something under warranty again, but that's coming up. September 23 of this year will be 5 years, so I guess I'll have to sing or get off the pot! It's amazing how fast the time goes by.

One advantage I've learned, of a regular-cab pickup, is that if you go out with a group of friends, you're never asked to be the driver!

andre1969

uplanderguy said:

I just looked at the ad for that '72 Gran Torino and that town is five miles from where I live!

You're right, honda, most cars with leather seating have it only on the seat inserts/facing...and no '72 Torino ever had one bit of leather in its interior from Ford!

That got me thinking...I wonder what the first domestic midsized car was to offer leather? Once vinyl became touted as a "wonder material" back in the 50's, it seemed like leather was relegated to the upper echelons, something like a Cadillac, Lincoln, or Imperial. But, in the 70's, buyers started to demand more luxurious smaller cars.

I know the Cordoba and Charger S/E offered leather for 1975. I don't know if you could get leather in the Ford Torino Elite, but by the time the T-bird came out for '77, it definitely had a leather option. I'm not sure when GM's midsized cars started offering leather, but my guess is that it first showed up in a Cutlass Supreme or Grand Prix.

These were still personal luxury coupes, though, and upscale from your mass-market intermediates. I'd imagine it took a long time before leather came to the likes of something in the Torino class. I don't think the LTD-II ever offered leather, probably not the '81-82 Granada, either. Maybe the '83-86 "small LTD"? Or, perhaps it wasn't until the Taurus?

On that subject, did the Celebrity ever offer a leather interior? I'm thinking no, although I'd imagine the Century and Ciera did, possibly the 6000 as well.

Chrysler may have been an early adopter at bringing leather to the masses. After the Cordoba and Charger S/E, for 1977 the Diplomat and LeBaron brought leather into the compact class. Well, "compact" for the era, at least! And then with the K-car variants, they were stuffing leather in them starting with the 1982 LeBaron and Dodge 400, I believe.

andre1969

sda said:

I'm sure you're a little sad to see it go. The truck reminds me a lot of the first new vehicle dad bought when we moved to VA in '76. It was a long bed '76 GMC Sierra 15, two tone, solid red body and white top. It had the 350 4bbl, full time all wheel drive, auto, ps, pb, am radio, gauge package, full wheel covers. IIRC it had Uniroyal L78-15 all season, but look like snow tread bias ply tires. It was a hard riding, fun truck that rarely got above 10mpg.

This truck actually replaced a '76 GMC! My grandparents had a '76 GMC 3/4 ton crew cab, a 2-tone that was sort of a copperish and white. It had the 350-4bbl as well, and I recall it would get about 10 mpg whether it was completely empty, or whether it had a slide in camper on back, or anything in between.

Granddad bought the '85 in the summer of that year. He tried putting the truck camper in back and did a test run around the block, but didn't like the way it handled, so they held onto the GMC another year so they could use it for camping. I have a pic somewhere that I scanned in, years ago, of Granddad posing with the '85, with the camper in back. I'll dig around and see if I can find it.

**Edit: Found it...here's a pic from the summer of '85. What a difference ~32 years makes, huh?

Michaell

andre1969 said:

You still driving the Park Avenue? I know you've talked about replacing it for, what, 3-4 years now?

Nah, unfortunately the Park Avenue is terminal, as well. It'll probably be the next to go. It has electrical issues and tends to kill the battery, so towards the end of its run I was driving around with one of those portable jump-start things. It also needs suspension work, brake work, rear shocks, and has other issues. The fuel lines are rusting, and I think the brake lines rusted through because one day it finally lost its brakes...fortunately while in the yard! I dropped the insurance on it and turned in the tags back in October.

The 2012 Ram has been my daily driver, and it's up to around 37,000 miles. I had toyed with the idea of trading it right around the 5 year mark, so I could get into something under warranty again, but that's coming up. September 23 of this year will be 5 years, so I guess I'll have to sing or get off the pot! It's amazing how fast the time goes by.

One advantage I've learned, of a regular-cab pickup, is that if you go out with a group of friends, you're never asked to be the driver!



I forgot you had the 2012 Ram - sounds like it's time to cut the PA loose, or donate it. Otherwise you'll end up with weeds growing around (and through) it.

sda

I wonder what the electrical issue is that drains the battery in the Park Avenue? My parent's '98 Aurora that they gave to my sister for her sons to drive shares the same platform is doing the same. Multiple garages were not able to diagnose the issue and seemed to just throw parts at it. My sister just sold it for $500 to wash her hands of it. It's a shame as it had a newer engine, ac overhaul, brakes, tires and less than 110k mi.

imidazol97

sda said:

I wonder what the electrical issue is that drains the battery in the Park Avenue? My parent's '98 Aurora that they gave to my sister for her sons to drive shares the same platform is doing the same. Multiple garages were not able to diagnose the issue and seemed to just throw parts at it. My sister just sold it for $500 to wash her hands of it. It's a shame as it had a newer engine, ac overhaul, brakes, tires and less than 110k mi.

My first guess is the starter. My shadetree neighbor has found a few of those on GM cars causing random battery drains. Mostly overnight surprise drains. And other nights nothing happens.

sda

imidazol97 said:

sda said:

I wonder what the electrical issue is that drains the battery in the Park Avenue? My parent's '98 Aurora that they gave to my sister for her sons to drive shares the same platform is doing the same. Multiple garages were not able to diagnose the issue and seemed to just throw parts at it. My sister just sold it for $500 to wash her hands of it. It's a shame as it had a newer engine, ac overhaul, brakes, tires and less than 110k mi.

My first guess is the starter. My shadetree neighbor has found a few of those on GM cars causing random battery drains. Mostly overnight surprise drains. And other nights nothing happens.

What a shame if that was the case, something simple. Yet on the Northstar, IIRC , the starter is located where it is laborious to replace.

explorerx4

@omarman,
Maybe you know this stuff, but here is a link that details the differences between a CJ and an SCJ.
http://www.torinocobra.com/cj_vs_scj.htm

texases

Good info. Man that SCJ option was CHEAP!

sda

andre1969 said:

uplanderguy said:

I just looked at the ad for that '72 Gran Torino and that town is five miles from where I live!

You're right, honda, most cars with leather seating have it only on the seat inserts/facing...and no '72 Torino ever had one bit of leather in its interior from Ford!

That got me thinking...I wonder what the first domestic midsized car was to offer leather? Once vinyl became touted as a "wonder material" back in the 50's, it seemed like leather was relegated to the upper echelons, something like a Cadillac, Lincoln, or Imperial. But, in the 70's, buyers started to demand more luxurious smaller cars.

I know the Cordoba and Charger S/E offered leather for 1975. I don't know if you could get leather in the Ford Torino Elite, but by the time the T-bird came out for '77, it definitely had a leather option. I'm not sure when GM's midsized cars started offering leather, but my guess is that it first showed up in a Cutlass Supreme or Grand Prix.

These were still personal luxury coupes, though, and upscale from your mass-market intermediates. I'd imagine it took a long time before leather came to the likes of something in the Torino class. I don't think the LTD-II ever offered leather, probably not the '81-82 Granada, either. Maybe the '83-86 "small LTD"? Or, perhaps it wasn't until the Taurus?

On that subject, did the Celebrity ever offer a leather interior? I'm thinking no, although I'd imagine the Century and Ciera did, possibly the 6000 as well.

Chrysler may have been an early adopter at bringing leather to the masses. After the Cordoba and Charger S/E, for 1977 the Diplomat and LeBaron brought leather into the compact class. Well, "compact" for the era, at least! And then with the K-car variants, they were stuffing leather in them starting with the 1982 LeBaron and Dodge 400, I believe.

andre--you got me thinking, caution! I do believe Chrysler was ahead of most to offer leather in the midsize luxury coupes like the Córdoba. The Corinthian leather was very soft to the touch something I miss in contemporary leather. The '75 Mercury Grand Monarch Ghia offered leather, though it didn't sell in volume. What's interesting is the door panels, door pulls and over all look of the Grand Monarch Ghia interior is almost identical to what was offered in the Lincoln Versailles which came out in '77.

ab348

The current issue of Collectible Automobile has a really interesting article on the Versailles. The stylists said that their original renderings had a more distinctive roofline but that management at Ford wouldn't OK it due to cost. So it came out and was roundly criticized for being too much like a Monarch. Two years later Ford went with their original proposal but by then it was too late.

berri

Andre - you're a Mopar man. Let the hair grow out a bit, get some designer sunglasses (maybe Gucci) and neck jewelry, then trade that RAM on an Alfa

fintail

No doubt kind of bittersweet about the old truck, Andre. I am sure it has at least a little sentimental value, although this beats sending it straight to the junkyard.

I see mention of the Versailles. In 1988, a young relative received a pristine 1978 Versailles from her uncle (distant enough so her uncle isn't really a relative). I remember riding in it when she picked it up, and I thought it was a lovely car - fully loaded including moonroof, full leather, it seemed like a much more expensive car to my young eyes. I seem to recall it was two tone grey and silver with dark grey leather. I think it had an 8 track and maybe a CB, and I recall it had wheels with a somewhat recessed hub area, not wire wheel covers. I don't remember the details, but it must have been a one owner estate car, it seemed to be as-new. As maybe too typical for when such a car falls into the hands of a young person, it lasted about a year until it was ruined.

andre1969

sda said:

andre--you got me thinking, caution! I do believe Chrysler was ahead of most to offer leather in the midsize luxury coupes like the Córdoba. The Corinthian leather was very soft to the touch something I miss in contemporary leather. The '75 Mercury Grand Monarch Ghia offered leather, though it didn't sell in volume. What's interesting is the door panels, door pulls and over all look of the Grand Monarch Ghia interior is almost identical to what was offered in the Lincoln Versailles which came out in '77.

Wow, looks like Ford actually put some effort into the Grand Monarch Ghia...it even had 4-wheel disc brakes!

I can see why this car probably didn't sell too well, though. While Americans were developing a taste for more luxurious small cars, I'd imagine this one was pretty expensive, so a lot of buyers just opted for a lesser Monarch. Or a Granada. Even in the more basic versions, the interior had an upscale look to it. Nowadays I look at them as overstyled and a bit useless...small glovebox, sparse instrumentation, etc. But, for the era they brought a feeling of luxury that wasn't that common in a domestic compact.

sda

This is a picture I found and you can see how very Lincoln(ish) the interior is. 1976 Mercury Grand Monarch Ghia. Lincoln introduced the Versailles the following year. Doesn't look like Lincoln put too much effort into making the Versailles different as was mentioned in a previous post concerning the roof line and the hasty revision they made to try to increase sales volume.

https://i2.wp.com/hooniverse.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/Recently-Updated91-001.jpg?w=720

fintail

I've never seen a Grand Monarch before, maybe didn't know it was a thing. At least they tried to put something behind the pretentiousness with that interior.

fintail

Does anyone here ever browse "Goo-Net", the Japanese car marketplace?

http://www.goo-net-exchange.com/

Always a fun read:

I want this, those seats

Cheaper than here

Super rare, I think double digit production

Lots of American cars, 3 at random:

You never know what you'll find in Japan

Couldn't be more Japanese

Yep Japan

Seems legit

Irrational kind-of want

80s icon, US spec

And I won't even get into the JDM stuff.

Michaell

I know you can put a GM crate engine into just about anything; I guess the real question is - do you want to?

One for fintail to review and comment upon:

http://jalopnik.com/for-9-900-could-this-corvette-powered-1968-mercedes-b-1792128086

Mr_Shiftright

Those seats look distressingly like a Corvette C4's.

fintail

The engine doesn't offend me, it keeps the car on the road. I've seen a number of V8 conversions in old MBs.

Price is far too high, though. The car leaves a lot to be desired in terms of cosmetics, and the Euro lights with US side markers irk me to no end. The rust also appears to not be insignificant, and these things can be hiding secrets when it comes to rot. The steering wheel also irks me. I can find a very nice original for around that much.

Michaell said:

I know you can put a GM crate engine into just about anything; I guess the real question is - do you want to?

One for fintail to review and comment upon:

http://jalopnik.com/for-9-900-could-this-corvette-powered-1968-mercedes-b-1792128086

Mr_Shiftright

Seems like a back yard hack job on a marginal car. Maybe worth half that.

fintail

I'd say 5K on more appropriate wheels with the dash put back together properly and a guarantee of roadworthiness. Someone might have sunk a chunk of change into it, but this isn't the kind of thing where you run in the black.

Mr_Shiftright

No mention of upgraded brakes either. I think this car should have been discussed first over beers late at night in someone's garage, and after everyone was thoroughly entertained, rejected as a really bad idea.

sda

I've always been puzzled why someone would put a Chevy engine in a Ford. It just doesn't seem right.

texases

Those Granadas need all the help they can get, I guess...

qbrozen

Paging shifty!

qbrozen

OK, shifty, I know you researched this extensively. What is the IMS deal again? Isn't it if it has already gone a certain number of miles, you might be safe? It looks like maybe '99 is a safer bet due to its dual-row bearing.(?)

This is very pretty

texases

Wonder what price it'll reach? Cheapest Cayman near me is $16k, similar miles. I'd guess by now the engine would have blown if there was a problem.

explorerx4

@fintail,
The Benz wagon looks great with those monoblock wheels.

Mr_Shiftright

qbrozen said:

Paging shifty!

Salvage title--generally the kiss of death for a Porsche, but I suppose at the current price it's worth a look. Right now it's being bid about $15,000 under fair market. Of course, you still have the IMS bearing to worry about.

You could always sell it for parts and make some of your money back.

The bad thing is that you never know when the IMS bearing is going to eat it. That's why frequent oil changes and cutting the oil filter in half is mandatory.

Best thing is just to bite the bullet and replace the IMS first thing, for $4,000 bucks or so.

Mr_Shiftright

qbrozen said:

OK, shifty, I know you researched this extensively. What is the IMS deal again? Isn't it if it has already gone a certain number of miles, you might be safe? It looks like maybe '99 is a safer bet due to its dual-row bearing.(?)

This is very pretty

The IMS bearing affects all model 996 & Boxsters up to about 2009. Most of the failures occur at low-lowish miles but the failure can strike at any time, in which case the car is totaled, as an engine rebuild would cost more than the entire car is worth.

The general rule is to buy one with an upgraded IMS bearing that has an actual plate attached to the door jamb stating who did it and when, and what type of replacement bearing was used.

If you can't do that and you want to take a chance, you can have the car thoroughly inspected by a specialist, who will saw the oil filter in half and look for metallic debris. If there is any, you just button it up and tell the owner the bad news, that destruction is just around the corner.

If there is no, or perhaps just microscopic itsy-bitsy debris, you can take a chance but you must...MUST,..change the oil every 3,000 miles religiously.

It's just a roll of the dice with these cars and my feeling is that with a thorough inspection and no other problems (they also leak from the rear main seal, from the head gaskets, and often have leaking water pumps and defective air/oil separators), then your odds aren't that bad.

Oh, the Cayman clutches WILL fail within 60K--70K, so that's a big ticket item to watch out for.

Of course, once the engine is out for the clutch, you can throw some more $$$ into it and get the IMS bearing replaced, since it's just staring at you at this point.

ab348

qbrozen said:

Paging shifty!

Man, someone sure loved black.

qbrozen

Dream crushed...again.

I read in one extensive writeup that the 98-99 years only have a 1% failure rate.

weird on the cayman, autocheck doesn't show it as salvage. Whoops.

Mr_Shiftright

I wouldn't buy a black Cayman or 996 as my cars have to live outdoors. I'm always on the hunt, though for just the right car----blue with tan interior, IMS bearing done, miles under 80K, price $16K--$18K, local car since I will have to drag it in for a fine-tooth inspection.