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Run-flat, self-sealing, PAX tires for Minivans

steverstever Posts: 52,462
edited February 2014 in General
Run-flat tires on the family hauler:

Good idea - no getting stranded on the freeway with the kiddos.

Bad idea - hard to find replacements on vacation trips (and more expensive than regular tires).

Your ideas?

Steve, Host


  • samnoesamnoe Posts: 731
    I don't have experience about others, but I have my Windstar with self sealing tires, which is better for some reasons. It seals itself completely and you can continue driving forever, unlike the other which gives you just 125 or 150 miles and then you need to replace the tire completely, which takes time and money (except for the Ody in the first 2 years it's free).

    My tires was very good, but not lasted long. I have just replaced my 2 front tires at 30,000 miles, since there was almost no thread and is not ready for the winter (and everyday driving too).

    And I think most Ford dealers do stock them, so if any problem, you can have it right away. And unlike PAX system, you can put any other compatible tire on the wheels.

    The downside is - comparing to the run-flats or PAX - that the self sealing will help you for a small puncture only, a nail, for example, or a small piece of glass, etc. but if it's a bigger hole, it will not protect you. That's where PAX and run flats advantages are, imo.
  • ceo1ceo1 Posts: 23
    The only reason that Toyota has run-flat on Sienna AWD is because there is no room for spare. It is not a upgrade or improvement. The "stranded with kids" argument is a red herring. For the cost and hassle of the run-flat, I am perfectly willing to spend the time to put on the spare.
  • vchengvcheng Posts: 1,284
  • Now that I got used to Nokian WR's on my '01 Sienna, there is no way I'd switch to PAX or the Toyota run-flats. The winter ability I suspect will be compromised with those tires. If I end up buying one of these vans, I'll probably get a non run-flat model and switch to Nokians.
  • The problem with the PAX tires on the Honda Odyssey is that they fit 17.5" wheels, which is a size that nobody has ever made before or since. This means that if the tires turn out to be problematic and you want to switch to regular tires, you will have to change the wheels, too. Anybody who owned a midsize Ford from 1979 or 1980 probably remembers the metric-tire debacle, which had the same result. Unorthodox wheel sizes on mainstream vehicles are a BAD idea.

    -Andrew L
  • gkkimgkkim Posts: 17
    Got this van because the wife had trouble changing tires to go to work the last time around. At least with the van she can "limp" to work.

    If you had one flat, a donut spare may help get you 50 miles or so at 25-35 mph? The pax will hopefully (if you're on a major freeway) get you some where within the 125 mile radius at 50-55 mph. Much safer than driving slow or trying to change the driver side tire on a freeway.

    ... And what if you had two flats running hard over a large rock/pothole? Happened to me once at 2:00 AM returning home from a fishing trip. Had to wait around for the tow truck! Dunno yet, but wondering if one can run on two flat pax as well.... Hmmm.... Anyone try that yet?

    Support is sparse now. Hoping Michelin and Honda pick it up and start putting these wheels on other models. Maybe too much of a chance to just slap it on the Accord.
  • heywood1heywood1 Posts: 850
    Wait until you get to you Honda dealer with your two flats, and they only have one PAX 'Hat Box.'
  • What brand of self sealing tire do you have? I had Uniroyal and Bridgestone before on my two old 95 Maximas. Bridgestone was a better tire overall compared with Uniroyal. I never had flat tire even with several nails on both brands. However, they discontinued making both types of tires. I want to replace the tires of my '02 Maxima. What brand is still available?
  • The worst: Nonstandard PAX system with no spare
    bad: Runflats with No spare
    ok: Regular Tires (self sealing or otherwise) with donut spare
    best: Regular tires with full size spare

    My Opinion of course.
  • gkkimgkkim Posts: 17
    Sure - with two regular flats, i was still waiting on the roadside for a tow-truck until 6:00 AM.

    Even with only one hatbox at one Honda dealership, I would still be able to drive to the next Honda dealership - hopefully driving a total of less than 125 miles at 50 - 55 mph
  • stickguystickguy Posts: 32,979
    You can actually drive more than 50 miles on a dunut, and they are rated for 50 mph at least.

    keep in mind that the ratings are very conservstive (really worst case) to avoid problems (and liability). I've seen people doing 80 on a donut (dopes), and people who seem to have made them their permanent tire. Not sure how long they will last, but a lot longer than 50 miles.

    Biggest problem with donuts, to me, is that most are wildly underinflated. They are supposed to carry 60psi, and I bet if you did a random check, 75+% would be way under that. Many people don't bother to check their regular tires, think they dig out the donut and fill that one up?

    2019 Acura TLX A-spec 4 cyl. (mine), and 2013 Acura RDX AWD (wife's)

  • "The problem with the PAX tires on the Honda Odyssey is that they fit 17.5" wheels, which is a size that nobody has ever made before or since. "

    Chevy used to make a 17.5" wheel in the 60's for PU Trucks. It was dumb then too.
  • There is no great combination of tire type for driving or personal safety. I like the runflats on my Sienna. I ripped 2 fist size holes in the sidewall of one. They performed perfectly. I had to slow down, but I have a van full of kids when it happened. Flats often enough happen in multiple tires. Being able to safely make it home or to a garage, is a big plus.

        I think the "Best" combination would be Runflats that self seal. Sidewall puncture are very common an self sealing tires don't seal sidewalls, and runflats don't seal at all.
  • heywood1heywood1 Posts: 850
    Actually, I think it's more like 18.1". Like Michelin's ill-fated TRX tires, I believe PAX measurement is metric.
  • rorrrorr Posts: 3,630
    Well, I don't have that much of a beef with run-flats in general. My problem with PAX is that if, for whatever reason, you decide you don't like the tire (ride, noise, wear, traction, whatever) you CAN'T change it. And when it comes time to replace your tires, your choice is limited to a Michelin PAX or......a Michelin PAX.

    "Thou Shalt Use PAX For Now And Forever More"

    Sorry Honda/Michelin. I refuse to buy into proprietary new technology whenever possible. Anybody run across a set of Michelin TRX tires at their local NTB lately?
  • Do you think that it's likely that Honda will get rid of requiring PAX on the touring in the near future (mid-year change, or for '06)? I really wish they would have made it an option to begin with.
  • chiawchiaw Posts: 92
    I think probably a lot of perspective owner would forgo PAX and opt for HID instead.

    Also, i still don't understand that if you decide to force PAX down customer's throat, why not redeisgn the spare tire area to allow wider 3rd row?
  • exb0exb0 Posts: 539
    What does PAX stand for?
  • indy93indy93 Posts: 97
    Canadian Touring do not come with PAX so why should ours! hypothetically speaking... poor man's PAX...can of self sealant! cheaper and just as effective... just kidding.
  • I am sure that Honda will make PAX optional.This PAX business really made the touring unpopular to some would be customers. I think it is better to make it optional like the Nav. I will trade it to HID anytime. I hope Honda is monitoring the forum, otherwise many customers will go to Toyota just because of this PAX fiasco.
  • steverstever Posts: 52,462
    "Pax" means "peace" in Latin, as in peace of mind if you have a flat, I guess. (Washington Post).

    Steve, Host
  • rorrrorr Posts: 3,630
    "Do you think that it's likely that Honda will get rid of requiring PAX on the touring in the near future (mid-year change, or for '06)?"

    It is possible that Michelin has a contract with Honda which would prevent them from opting out of using the PAX system for a few years. Michelin would have been smart to ensure that Honda couldn't 'back out' of using their new tire system after only 1 model year.
  • cccompsoncccompson Posts: 2,388
    Has anyone heard a rationale from Honda as to why the Canadian Touring models are not equipped with PAX?

    The only thought that comes to my mind is that, aside from certain parts of Ontario and Quebec, there may be too few places too far apart to reliably service them.
  • rorrrorr Posts: 3,630
    Perhaps it is because Michelin does not make a snow tire for the PAX system. And since the PAX system is proprietary (meaning nobody elses snow tires will fit), that would be a fairly heavy penalty for Canadian drivers.
  • susiejsusiej Posts: 12
    Is it possible to buy a car in Canada if you live in the States? I guess one issue would be the odometer would be metric . I would definitely consider the Touring model if PAX weren't standard. I think we will probably go with Sienna instead.
  • susiejsusiej Posts: 12
    There are plenty of us Americans who live in the snow belt as well! I think you are right though, that is the primary reason.
  • steverstever Posts: 52,462
    You can buy a van in Canada, but Honda USA won't honour the warranty (absent special circumstances).

    Steve, Host
  • susiejsusiej Posts: 12
    Excellent and important point!
  • ckirkckirk Posts: 18
    I also was curious and googled this at ct/feature36
    The PAX system isn't just a tire; it's a tire/wheel package that consists of four components: a tire, a wheel, an inner support ring, and a tire-inflation monitor. If the PAX-system tire loses air pressure--whether due to a small puncture or a huge hole in the sidewall--it doesn't go "flat"; it only drops about halfway down. At that point, the underside of the tread rests on an inner support ring that runs around the circumference of the wheel.
  • heywood1heywood1 Posts: 850
    If potential 'Touring' buyers are already contemplating the feasibility of purchasing a Canadian model just to avoid PAX, then my prediction that sales will suffer are vindicated. Honda, are you paying attention? You've boxed yourself into a corner. Buyers of the Touring model are doing so despite PAX--not because of it--so they can have adjustable pedals and a power lift gate.

    If Honda offered optional 18" wheels and power lift gate on EX-L's, Touring sales would dry up.
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