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Run-flat, self-sealing, PAX tires for Minivans

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Comments

  • rorrrorr Posts: 3,630
    I think bigmouth was wondering if replacing BOTH the rim and tire with something more conventional (so he can run snow tires) would void the car warrantee, screw up the TPMS/VSA, or both. I don't think he was asking about the warantee on the PAX tires.
  • ncguy1ncguy1 Posts: 9
    I guess I mistook "Can I mount snow tires on their own wheels?" to mean can I mount snow tires on the standard Touring wheels.

     

    Maybe the other info in my post is of value, bigmouth.
  • Are the Blizzaks that you bought run-flat tires?
  • luckylouluckylou Posts: 308
    We purchased the 2005 Touring Ody ,because of the Pax Michelin and the piece of mind , my wife don't having to change a tire in the middle of nowhere , in an emergency.

    Of course it was my fault when I had a blow out on my TLC right rear tire while doing 50 mph had a long nail leaking slowly , could not see the nail it was on the inside of the tire ,thank goodness still under warranty at the time got a new tire and a new rim . We wonder , if we had Pax this could not have happened.

       Lou
  • joeb24joeb24 Posts: 111
    Yes, the Bridgestone Blizzak winter tires are run flat tires. TireRack gave me very good service in obtaining these tires. I also called several Bridgestone-Firestone dealers inquiring about these tires, and, surprisingly, a couple of dealers did not know these tires exist!
  • Just thought I'd chime in with my two cents. I recently bought an '05 Ody Touring model for the wife. She's loving the new van, but occasionally gets a bit distracted by all the new bells and whistles. ;-)

     

    She was driving it near our house recently when she got distracted and managed to run up the curb when the road veered left and she went straight. She managed to puncture the sidewall of the tire and it went flat immediately. The tire pressure warning message was clear and gave her the information she needed to know she messed up the tire. Since she was close to home, she drove it home for me to take a look at. (Plus, I was curious how the van would drive on the tire now.)

     

    I drove it to the nearest Honda dealership, about 5 miles away. It really handled well. No big difference in driving it straight. If you took your hands off the wheel, it slowly veered to the right, but not nearly as bad as I expected. It drove fine around curves where the road bends a bit (I averaged around 40 MPH on the road, but felt confident I could have matched traffic if I wanted. Speed limit was 40, most going around 50)

     

    Turning at the intersections was fine as well. I turned slower than normal, but didn't crawl through the turn. All in all, it was fine. Small amount of vibration at slow speeds, none noticeable at normal speeds.

     

    The dealership was great. They replaced the tire and rim at no charge. I just had to fill out a small form for Michelin, and I was on my way with a new tire and rim in about 30 minutes.

     

    I really wasn't sure about the benefits/cost analysis for PAX tires when we bought the Ody, and quite frankly if I could have gotten the Touring without them, I probably would have. But now that I have experienced them, I feel much more at peace knowing my wife or daughter won't get stranded if this happens again.

     

    Sorry so long winded, but I hope my experience helps.

     

    --Rob
  • heywood1heywood1 Posts: 850
    Sorry, but I'm unclear why PAX damage done in an accident that was your wife's fault was repaired/replaced at no charge. Seems a bit different than, for example, driving over a nail you didn't even know was there...
  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonPosts: 20,225
    But, hey! the story has a happy ending and we have a HAPPY PAX owner!
  • I guess in trying to strike the balance between brevity and clarity, I lost clarity. I was interested in what happens if I put snow tires on regular wheels. But, your info was also good, ncguy1. Thanks for the help.
  • gkkimgkkim Posts: 17
    Rob, Thanks for sharing your story. I must admit that I cut a curb too close a couple of days ago, but was fortunate enough for nothing huge to happen. Michelin would probably be happy to take a good look at that broken sidewall.

     

    This is a link that I saw a couple of days ago by Road and Track:

    http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?section_id=20&article- _id=1691
  • steverstever Posts: 52,462
    Good article even if it does punch holes in my PAX = Peace (of mind) naming theory.

     

    Steve, Host
  • heywood1heywood1 Posts: 850
    Steve,

     

    Thanks for spelling 'peace' correctly.
  • luckylouluckylou Posts: 308
    I detect a drop of acid in that remark. A misspell on this web site wow . OUCH .......

     Lou
  • Read the warranty that comes with the tires.

    The PAX tires are covered by a PAX System Assurance Plan. Which states in part "No tire, regardless of its quality is indestructible, and even a PAX system tire may be rendered unserviceable by road hazard injury. If this happens, Michelin will replace your tire under the terms and conditions described in HOW REPLACEMENT CHARGES ARE CALCULATED. This PAX System Assurance Plan is not a warranty or protection against all road hazard injuries. It is an added value to the consumer that provides for replacement of tires that come out of service as a result of conditions not covered by the limited warranty."

     

    Basically, the tires are covered for the first 24 months or 50% of tread. I think (and I'm mealy speculating here) that Michelin wanted to take good care of the early adopters to this technology. Think about it. How many times does this really happen outside of an accident, which I take to mean one that damages more than the tire and rim? The actual cost to Michelin is small compared to the good will it will create (as it did in my case and I'm spreading the word to those who have concerns about the tires).

    Consider what my post would sound like if I mentioned it cost me $530 to replace the tire and rim? (Hope the wife get's used to the car in another 20 months ;-)

    Michelin has posted the warranty info on their website. Here is the link to read the warranty info in full:

    http://www.michelinman.com/assets/pdfs/doc_paxwarranty.pdf

     

    --Rob
  • just4fun2just4fun2 Posts: 461
    You hit a curb hard enough to ruin the tire and they replace the tire and rim. Does anybody know if Honda x-ray's the rim for metal fatigue or they giving all new rims each time? What stresses have been put on that rim? Since you have no knowledge of the previous life of the rim you are given as a replacement, you could be putting your family in danger. Cruising down the highway and have a rim fail because of the actions of the previous owner would not be in your best interests.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonPosts: 20,225
    I think you are correct in your thinking. Michelin wants happy customers.

     

    Would you really have been unhappy if the warranty didn't cover that? I know I would have simply assumed since it was my wife's fault I would naturally pay for a new tire.

     

    I'm glad it worked out so well in your case.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonPosts: 20,225
    that could be true of any used car. How would anyone know if the previous owner hit a curb hard enough to blow out a tire?

     

    It would be highly unlikely a rim would fail at a later date if this were the case. Damage to the wheel would be apparant when the blown tire is dismounted.
  • just4fun2just4fun2 Posts: 461
    Yes, the same thing could happen if you buy a used car. Some people get used cars that have been cut in half, rebuilt and sold to unsuspecting buyer which puts them in harms way. However, when you buy a "new" Honda you won't have to concern yourself with that problem until you have to get that replacement rim/tire combination. Most cars will keep the original rims through the life of the car, with this Honda replacement system, the same rim could be handed out many times increasing the chances for failure.

     

    As far as seeing metal fatigue when they dismount the wheel would be impossible unless you have x-ray eyes. I believe that you would have to have the rim magnifluxed to find cracks not visible to the naked eye that could be dangerous.

     

    They recommend replacing your childs safety seat if you have been in an accident. It might look ok, but it might not be safe due to excessive stress during the crash.

     

    Not saying that is going to happen to every rim that hits a curb,it's just food for thought.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonPosts: 20,225
    Well, I suppose anything is always possible but the chances of a rim failing are pretty far fetched.

     

    One of the million things that "could" happen.
  • heywood1heywood1 Posts: 850
    Well, I must admit it's on my list of widely mis-spelled/mis-used words or phrases in the English language. I also hate it when people say:

     

    sherbert

    "I could care less!"

    prostrate surgery

    The media is.....
  • steverstever Posts: 52,462
    It wasn't a typo, since pax does translate as peace. The piece/peace of mind aside was a bit of word play.

     

    Does that little singular piece of datum clear things up? (gawd, I had that word).

     

    Steve, Host
  • luckylouluckylou Posts: 308
    Point taken.

     Lou
  • user777user777 Posts: 3,341
    the shop where it was taken could not remove the tire and replace it with another. wondering.

     

    didn't i read a post that said effectively this is what would be done, if replacement was required...

     

    ...but...read the information on the michelanman website and it will be clear than in cases of tire damage...it must be inspected, maybe to determine if the inner ring has been compromised?

     

    if you don't have the equipment to dismount the tire from the rim to inspect the innards of the tire, what else are you going to do but replace everything as a unit?

     

    hmmm.

     

    i would agree with the poster - the company also wants good experiences for early adopters...but also...perhaps they might want some real-world damaged tires to inspect...
  • scottybscottyb Posts: 83
    According to a number of posts, you may be able to install EX wheels and retain the TPMS.

     

    I may know someone that is interested in trading brand-new OEM EX wheels and tires for touring PAX wheels and tires.

     

    If you are interested, you can email me at the address in my profile.
  • brightness04brightness04 Posts: 3,151
    Reading that Road&Track article alone, you'd think none of the conventional runf-flats could support SUV weight, and only PAX can do it. In reality, there are mini vans fitted with run-flats on the road for years. 4 PAX tires weighing the same as 4.7 conventional tires, what a great 6% weight saving off 5 conventional tires! Except isn't that 14% more rolling/unsprung mass? whereas the weight saving in sprung mass is negaligible for a car that weighs 3000-4500lbs. Where's the comparison to 4 conventinal run-flats?

     

    Then, there's the Tweel. What a brilliant idea, except for road noise and ride quality issues . . . the same issues that made Dunlop's pneumatic tire patents such a great success over a hundred years ago!

     

    Further proof that journalists are paid to act dumb and gullible. Like Thomas Jefferson once said, the less newspapers you read, the better informed you are.
  • steverstever Posts: 52,462
    No buying and selling on the boards please.

     

    Steve, Host
  • I wasn't going to argue with the dealer if they were going to replace the tire under warranty. Would I expect it, not necessarily, but since there wasn't any other damage to the vehicle, they may have decided it was a road hazard. I wasn't writing my post so much to talk about them replacing it under warranty as much as how well the PAX tires performed under a real tire failure situation.

     

    Hope that helps.

    --Rob
  • The dealership carries a tire and rim assembly in stock. (I believe all dealerships are required to stock them.) Since the PAX tires require special equipment to replace the tire, perhaps they feel at this early stage it is more expedient to replace the tire and rim assembly together until more dealerships and tire stores have the proper equipment. The rim itself was in good shape and could have been used again. It had a scrape on the side, but not enough to cause a problem using it again. I suspect the tire and rim assembly will be sent to Michelin or Honda to be examined.

     

    Hope that helps clarify.

    --Rob
  • You make very valid points.

    --Rob
  • Michelin replaces with a new rim each time. No chance of metal fatigue.
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