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Comments
Steve, Host
Well, I'm sure Karl is located somewhere way out in the sticks where the local backwoods Honda/Michelin dealers don't have the PAX tires in stock or know how to work on them. I'm sure if he were in a major metropolitan area (like maybe the greater LA basin) he wouldn't have any problems at all finding service.
Maybe you know where Karl was, but I have no idea where this occurred. Maybe we can find out.
And it shouldn't matter anyway. Why should only those who live in--or lucky enough to break down in--huge metro areas deserve to have their PAX serviced without a problem?
Honda & Michelin need to make sure there is strong and knowledgeable PAX support nationwide (including the red states) if they want more people to embrace this technology.
I'm sure we'll hear more about it in the next Long-Term Test.
Steve, Host
Point being, if he had that much trouble in the greater LA basin, what kind of service can those in say, Nebraska or Mississippi expect?
LA is a big mass of little villages and a downtown that rolls the sidewalks up at 6 pm, so maybe it would be easier to fix a PAX in Biloxi or Omaha?
Steve, Host
I'll be a sunofagun.....sarcasm DOES work here. Guess I'll have to practice more....
There's a lot more Michelin dealers in LA, but individually they may not be as big as the two near Biloxi or the dozen plus in Omaha.
Steve, Host
Anyone have any flats lately?
Steve, Host
Can you show me what Honda's official policy is regarding replacement of the tires in the event of a flat? I thought from reading here that the replacement would be free while under warranty, but the Honda dealer I talked to recently said they don't cover it. He said that the tire is warranted by Michelin, and they would replace it if there was a DEFECT and not a flat. Is that true? If it is covered, I'd like to be able to have something to show them.
Also, what is the typical cost to replace them if I get a flat? Someone previously broke down the pricing for the tire itself, the sensor, and the wheel, but what is normally replaced?
Thanks!
It sounds like Michelin is going to extremes in an attempt to make people comfortable with these and that's a good thing!
Specifically I wonder the comparison on road noise, smoothness, and handling/cornering. Haven't test driven the Touring yet....only the EXL.
Thanks
On smooth payment my Touring rides great. Handling/cornering is excellent. On broken pavement, the ride can get rough, an attribute I believe to be an Odyssey characteristic in general. There is much noise transmitted when on concrete payment and very little on asphalt. The vehicle is much quieter overall than our '99 Odyssey.
I think everything that can be said pro and con has been discussed ad nauseum, don't you?
I doubt your continuing gloom and doom predictions will come to pass but time will tell.
See if you can find your boss's WSJ from Thursday. PAX isn't mentioned in the article, but it's worth reading--especially for anyone in your industry, Isell.
I did let my WSJ subscription expire a couple of years ago. No time to read three newspapers a day. Two is enough.
Two papers are enough-- just give up the USA Today and re-subscribe to the Journal.
if i had known that my brand new sienna came from the factory with run flats, i would have sent it back. i tried to replace the 17" tires (special order because no one stocks that size, OF COURSE) with regular all season tires but they could not even work on the car without the SPECIAL equipment needed to replace and/or repair run flats! regular replacement tires cost me a $135.99 each at a discount tire shop. i was told by toyota that run flats have about 20K worth of mileage on them. am i expected to replace all 4 tires annually at $300+ a pop? uh, i don't think so. still fighting with toyota on this.
If you're really price sensitive and willing to go with conventionals, you can buy the 17" Bridgestone Turanza EL42's on the TireRack website for $68 each.
My tire went flat on the way to work this morning. The dealer is right on my way, and the warning message was displayed that I had low tire pressure and then that it was running on the PAX. I drove about 2 miles further to get to the dealer and left it with them, while I went on to work in their loaner car. They called to tell me the tire was under warranty and would be replaced, but said the technology is not yet available to replace the tire only, and that they would have to replace the wheel and tire assembly together. However, he said that the supplier would not take my old wheel because it has some scratches on it. (I'm not sure I agree with this because I haven't noticed any scratches). Since the supplier won't take my old wheel, they want to charge me $700 for a new wheel!!! The service guy told me I could file it on my insurance - like that means I don't have to pay for it? - don't they realize people have deductibles?
I don't feel it is my problem that Honda does not yet have the equipment available in all of Tennessee to replace only the tire!?!. I'm really aggravated! I'll update after my husband comes back and let you know the resolution. If I knew then what I know now, I would never have bought an Odyssey in the first year of a new design. I had it in the shop about 30 days out of the first 120 days (4 different times) to get rattles fixed in the passenger sliding door.
The dealership manager was gone, but my husband talked to the service manager. The service manager showed my husband the scratch on the wheel. It was purely cosmetic - a place in the finish near the tire rim was scratched about 2 inches long and 1/4 inch wide. The tire went flat due to a piece of sheetmetal I apparently picked up on the interstate.
The service manager told my husband this was their first PAX replacement and that in their training they were told that the tire distributor "The Tire Rack" would not take back any wheels with any kind of damage, including scratches. How many wheels out there are perfect after they have been driven several thousand miles? (I only had 6,200 miles on mine.)
After my husband had been at the dealership over a half hour, I knew things weren't going well and started searching this forum. I found a Michelin number posted here: 1-877-PAX-TIRE. I called that number, and the person I talked to said that the tire was warranted for 2 years road hazard warranty and that Honda should replace the tire & wheel assembly for free. I asked him to call the dealer and tell them that. While I was on hold, he called my service rep who told him the wheel was damaged and that Honda would not take it back. He came back and told me that Michelin could not do anything since the wheel was damaged. (At that point in time I did not know the damage was purely cosmetic.) I repeated to him that I did not think I should have to pay for a wheel since only the tire needed to be replaced. He suggested I call other Honda dealers in the area to see if any of them had the equipment to replace only the tire. I did that with no luck, then called Michelin back again to tell them the results. This time I got a different person. He talked to their Consumer Relations Manager who told him that I should not have to pay for the wheel regardless of damage, and that all the wheel and tire assemblies go back to Michelin and are not re-used - therefore IT DOESN'T MATTER WHETHER IT IS DAMAGED OR NOT!!! I asked him to call my dealer and tell them that. He called me back and said he talked with a service rep and that they were not going to charge me. So I finally have my van back with new tire & wheel assembly for no cost - except all the frustration and time spent.
After picking up my vehicle, I called Michelin back so they could update their file and so I could complain about Tire Rack's no scratch policy. They told me Tire Rack is working for Honda, but I told them this policy will hurt their reputation and their sales of this new tire design. I may also talk to my dealership manager and explain to him how this hurts their sales of Touring models.
Good Luck to any other people with PAX flats! I recommend you keep the Michelin phone number handy and call them a second time if you get an unfavorable response.
Honda seems to have really dropped the ball on training their dealers and, as I one who owns a Touring, it is not reassuring.
I'd say that Honda and Michelin need to share more information with eachother, but then I'd be repeating myself....
Recently I went shopping for a temporary spare tire (non-run flat). I read a lot on the forum and just thought that this may be a good idea for long trips. The tire store did not carry the 225/60R17 but sold me on the 215/60R17.
I am not a tire expert but for those of you out there who knows about tires, is it okay for me to use the 215 as a "temporary" tire until I can drive my disable van to the nearest repair shop? The store manager said it was ok to use.
Thank you very much in advance.
Rob
And yes, according to my husband, the new wheel and tire came in the famous "hat box". But according to my dealer, they have to send back to Tire Rack an undamaged wheel in the hat box in order to get a new hat box with another new wheel/ tire assembly.
The somewhat smoother ride seems to be the ONLY benefit of PAX over conventional run-flats, and (for me) wouldn't be worth all the aggro others here have experienced regarding replacement.
The tread life rating on tires is--at best--a guess, and it isn't the only measure of how good a tire is. The OEM Michelin's on my Volvo would have probably lasted 50,000 miles, but they were so horrible in wet conditions, that I probably would have died in a crash before they wore out. And the longer operating range (100 miles vs. 50 miles) isn't much of a practical difference.
I'll agree. In the case of the poster with problems the situation was bungled. As the usage of these become more widespread I would sure hope these stories cease. That was enough to certainly scare someone off. Hopefully that place can get their act together!
I'm following this topic closely because I own a vehicle that is going to need new (conventional) run-flats sooner than later, and I hope the replacement options get better.
The AWD capability of my Sienna required that the vehicle be equipped with RFT's, as there was no room for a spare. Why Honda chose to laden every top-line Touring with PAX--when there was room for a spare--is a mystery to me. Honda doesn't like to admit mistakes (and it sounds like you're a team player in that regard), but they should have made this interesting--but unproven--technology an option.
I read your solution the first time, and 'got the picture.' It sounds reasonable in certain situations. There may be instances where the damaged tire won't hold air long enough to get you anywhere.
I don't know what-- if any-- safety or speed limitations there are with those cans of fix-a-flat. I know they pack a lot of pressure, and on a hot day you may have a little bomb tucked neatly under the back seat.