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Run-flat, self-sealing, PAX tires for Minivans

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Comments

  • cccompsoncccompson Posts: 2,388
    There won't any change to either '07 model that will solve your problem.

    Since the tires for either vehicle cost more than the norm, there isn't much of a cost issue here at all.

    With either vehicle the ideal solution would be to purchase an extra set of wheels with snow tires and switch over in the winter.

    Given your situation, if it were me (and I now own a Touring), I would buy the Toyota. All other things being equal, AWD is going to offer an advantage. And, perhaps most importantly, you'll keep your husband happy!
  • it were me, i would not drive in conditions which were beyond me or my vehicle. i would not be depending on AWD to keep me and my family "safe" or even keep us "safer".

    I completely agree. However, having spent lots of time in MT in the winter, you get caught out in inclement weather without any warning, especially the higher up you go in elevation. We have driven my current vehicle there, a Jeep G.C., and ended up almost over the side of a mountain. My husband was driving up the mountainside, hit a patch of ice in the shade, and off spinning we went. The temp was above freezing in the valley by quite a bit, but obviously, in the shade up on a mountainside, that doesn't matter. Again, nothing would have prevented that but more careful driving on his part.

    I also agree that we shouldn't buy until we are there. That's the plan actually, but I need to make a decision before we take another trip up there in order to get the van I want delivered to the dealership I want. The people we have spoken with up there suggest a Suburu over anything else. Can't remember which model...maybe the Outback..not sure. Anyway, too small and not as practical for our purposes in hauling kids around. I think our second vehicle will definitely be one of those. All of the time we have spent in MT has been in the winter. We've been in a 4X4 Ford SUV, and my Jeep, which is not 4WD. I wasn't impressed with either one, lol. It's unfortunate, but no one in Montana that we have spoken with has a minivan. Telling?

    Oh and the comment you made about people going off the road into ditches, surreal...quite right. I remember when I was in college, I was sitting at a stoplight on a particularly nasty day. The other light changed so my lane could turn, and no one coming to the red light could get stopped. I didn't venture out into the intersection as the other traffic was still sliding through! I watched, completely still, as it all happened in slow motion, a car and truck ballet on the icy highway..each vehicle in turn sliding right into their respective ditches. I think in total there were about seven cars that went off. Where I'm from, you go out in just about any weather practically since well, you have to...you have to get to work, to school, to wherever. Winter weather waits for no one, lol.

    I'm going to do as one of the other posters suggested and look into the Hyundai and Kia minivans. I think I've decided FWD is my goal now. Really takes the pressure off me!!

    Thank you so much for your great post!
  • Incredibly helpful, thank you. I'm going to take your advice and check into the other minivans you mentioned. Having mulled it over to oblivion, and getting the input, refreshing my memory from our previous trips there, I think I'm better at ease with going with FWD.

    If my husband wants AWD or 4WD, maybe he'll want to go get his monster truck for himself, lol.

    I wonder though if anyone has made that deal with a dearlership for the regular tires on the AWD Sienna. It still puts me in a position of not getting exactly what I want since I have no desire whatsoever to either mount the tire outside the vehicle, or use the cargo space for storage. We'll need all of that, and the outside mount is something I really want to stay away from as well....so...
  • With either vehicle the ideal solution would be to purchase an extra set of wheels with snow tires and switch over in the winter.

    Given your situation, if it were me (and I now own a Touring), I would buy the Toyota. All other things being equal, AWD is going to offer an advantage. And, perhaps most importantly, you'll keep your husband happy!


    LOL, my husband would appreciate that comment!

    As for the advantages of AWD, are you speaking only of the advantage in traction? Since I'm no expert, I don't know if there are any other advantages...can you elaborate, if needed??

    As far as not having any changes on the '07 models, how do you come by that info..I want to be fairly sure of that ;)

    Thanks, by the way for your response!
  • user777user777 Posts: 3,341
    do some research on the advantages of AWD over FWD, specially in the Sienna.

    btw, unless mistaken, AWD will get you going perhaps better than FWD, but likely only if you have equally good tires for snow between setups (not likely). as someone suggested you might consider replacing all four (if you purchased a Sienna) with snows. consider the additional costs involved.

    as far as i understand the situation, and admit i could be wrong, once you are going AWD isn't going to help you much if any over FWD.

    couple the facts that for the AWD minivan: there is no spare, there are a limited number of RF tire alternatives you could put on the vehicle, their inferior snow traction compared to snow tires, their propensity to wear very quickly, their expense and the fuel economy hit you will take, and that technology looks less and less and less attractive to me.
  • I have had extremely good luck with my Sienna 05 AWD and run flats in Minnesota weather on and off highways, actually most of the 40K was highways. Never ended up in the ditch (in this car!) three or fours slips stayed on the road. That is all good, but the price of replacing run flats is bad. They can last anywhere from less than 10k miles to 40k miles. They are not readily available and not everyone can touch them either. Comsidering regular tires with AWD may not be an option because they have no room for a spare when they make it AWD and they will not sell a car with regular tires and no spares. I have to ask my wife to read these, she told me that she will not push me for one or the other (in between Odessey and Sienna) since she wanted me to be happy. Our three years old and one year old love it because they can play and watch DVD while I clean, she loves the ability to go to back seats whenever necessary. Hope this was helpful.
  • Yes, it is helpful, but how many miles are on your runflats on your 05 so far??
  • My run flats lasted 37k miles, I reviewed new tires online to find only one person whose tires lasted 40k, most had to change before 20k miles. 1200 dollars for 20k miles means this much additional maintanance cost in less than 2 years. They may last you longer or maybe less, no guarantees. I did not enjoy this, rest I still love my Sienna. HK
  • mleonardomleonardo Posts: 45
    Then they should never have designed the car that way.
  • mleonardomleonardo Posts: 45
    As pissed off as I am about my sienna not having a spare. I have to say in all fairness that it handles extremely well up here in our snowy oregon winters. I have tried to break this van loose. I have been unable to do it. I do run studded snow tires on seperate wheels in the winter time. That combined with the AWD (which is far better than just front wheel drive and part time four wheel drive) the AWD sienna is a very good winter driving van.
  • What is your opinion...can they effectively design the Sienna with area for a standard spare? I don't know enough about auto design to have an opinion, but just wondering??
  • Thank you ;) I think I can only hope for that many miles on mine. I guess I've officially been swung over to the AWD team regardless of the tire situation. It will be a wait and see. If they are a pain, I will switch out to radials and deal with the spare problem. I still cringe to think of mounting one, but I won't have it in the cargo area to be sure.
  • Well, I'm won over to AWD. So you have the run flat snow tires for your Sienna, correct?? I apologize if you already told me.

    Thanks again by the way. Your posts as well as a few others have really given me some practical information. This is what I was looking for...Sienna owners who have driven the AWD version in winter weather conditions.
  • user777user777 Posts: 3,341
    ahh OK. by the same token, what about the majority of Sienna owners who have to drive each season using FWD technology?

    it's nice you came to a decision, but you're basing it on essentially one sample point of one person driving the vehicle your considering in the state you're moving to.

    it's interesting, for an information gatherer, that's sort of an unexpected result. ;)
  • mwalters1mwalters1 Posts: 10
    I don't care if you get AWD or FWD, just DON'T get run-flats or you will regret it. Run flats give you no choices in future tire replacement. Run flats don't ride as comfortably as regular tires. Run flats are expensive and tread wear is miserable. Many times you will be forced to change the entire rim as well as the tire (that'll be 600 dollars please). If you get a flat tire with run flats, you can expect to spend the rest of your day (if not overnight) dealing with it. Michelin says they will fly a replacement tire to you if no shops around have one (almost all of them don't). How silly is that? Pick up a nail in a regular tire, and any mom and pop garage on the planet can fix it in 5 minutes for 5 dollars. Pick up a nail in a run-flat and Michelin is scrambling the choppers. If anyone out there is considering the purchase of a Toyota Sienna AWD, or Honda Odyssey Touring, insist the dealer replace the run-flat wheels and tires with standard tires and rims (plus a spare). The Honda has a space for a temporary spare (don't forget a jack). I'm not sure about the Toyota, but all the other Sienna models carry a spare underneath. It is our duty as consumers to let these manufacturers know that the infrastructure to support run-flat technology is little to non-existent right now, therefore we must be given a choice in tires for our vehicles.
  • rorrrorr Posts: 3,630
    "If anyone out there is considering the purchase of a Toyota Sienna AWD, or Honda Odyssey Touring, insist the dealer replace the run-flat wheels and tires with standard tires and rims (plus a spare)."

    Welcome to the thread.

    Actually, ONLY the run-flats on the Odyssey Touring require special rims. The run-flats on the Sienna AWD use the EXACT SAME 17" RIMS as the FWD Sienna. In other words, if one owns a Sienna AWD, they CAN run regular tires on the same rims if they so choose. (They still need to consider getting a spare tire and rim of course).
  • I agree I replaced thr run flats with regular tires on the same AWD 17 inch rims. Problem is with the cost and uncertainty of how long will they last. Despite the absence of a spare, AWD comes with a jack!HK
  • mleonardomleonardo Posts: 45
    I have the studded snow tires mounted on seperate steel wheels. At the time I bought the studded tires there were no 17" ones available. So i bought 16" wheels and studded tires with a larger profile so that the circumfrence was the same. The dealer advised me that this would not harm the van. I had no problems with these tires over the last winter. I plan to replace the run-flats with standard tires next time i need tires. The one good thing about having these lousy tires is that I only have them on the van when I can't use the snow tires in the spring and summer months.
  • jeffreyh2jeffreyh2 Posts: 50
    mwalters,

    I doubt that a dealer will be willing to replace run-flat tires with standard tires. For one thing, the vehicle suspension system has been 'tuned' for the run-flats (to a greater extent for the stiff sidewall type, but there are also difference for the PAX) that may introduce liability issues if they provide a tire type different from what the vehicle is designed for. Changing the tire type yourself may introduce warranty issues, and may or may not introduce handling or ride characteristics that are unpleasant or unsage.

    I agonized over the run-flat tire issues before deciding to buy a Honda Odyssey Touring model, which I will pick up later this week. In my area there is 1 tire dealer who has the equipment to de-mount the PAX tires and claims he can repair repairable damage, but he cannot obtain new tires so replacements must be bought from a dealer and brought to him for mounting. Paradoxically the 3 local dealers can supply only the complete wheel-tire assembly, the tires alone are not available to them.

    I will buy a conventional 'doughnut' spare as the Odyssey Touring does retain the spare-tire compartment and comes with a jack and lug wrench. This way I can still get to where I might need to go, albeit slowly, after using up the 125 miles provided by the run-flats.

    Regards, JEff
  • mwalters1mwalters1 Posts: 10
    I have done a lot of research into this topic and this is what I have learned.
    Honda and their dealerships will not replace the PAX system with standard wheels and tires even if you pay them to. I'm sure this would create a conflict of interest in their contract with Michelin. The only suspension difference between the EX-L and Touring models is the front stabilizer bar in the Touring is a little bigger. Honda dealers only carry the entire wheel assembly because the equipment for changing PAX system tires is too expensive and they are not in the business of selling or changing tires. In fact, according to my local Honda dealer, they don't even like to keep the PAX wheel assembly in stock because they have to buy it, and they don't make any money from it. According to an authorized PAX system tire dealer (which will remain nameless), the PAX system can be replaced with the wheels and tires from an EX-L with no consequences as long as you use the valve stems from the PAX wheels, otherwise your car's computerized dashboard systems display an "error" message and nothing else. Apparantley, he has changed out a lot of these systems for disgruntled Touring owners. If you intend to buy a doughnut spare to use with the run-flats, make sure you order one from Honda that is a replacement for the EX-L spare, and order a PAX system valve stem to use with it. You must do this because the Touring and EX-L have the same lug nut configuration and threads. Ordering this spare may be a trick as it doesn't come as a single assembly and my dealer couldn't figure out the cost much less how to order it. As far as the voiding the warranty goes, according to my Honda dealer, if you change out the wheels and tires the only part of the warranty you void is on the wheels and tires. Oddly enough, the cost of ordering 4 EX-L wheels and tires is about the same as just replacing the tires alone on the PAX system. Good luck.
  • jeffreyh2jeffreyh2 Posts: 50
    Thanks for the additional information. You confirm one aspect my reasoning for why a dealer would not be willing to replace the PAX tire system with conventional tires.

    All 3 of my local Honda dealers claim to have at least 4 PAX assemblies in stock, but as you say none of them have the tire-changing equipment and so do not have and cannot obtain the tires only.

    My local Honda dealer did give me a price for a doughnut assembly that is consistent with the separate prices for the wheel and tire, but I think I will search 'junk yards' first.

    My experience between now and when the PAX tires wear out will determine whether I replace them in kind or with conventional wheels and tires.

    Thanks again for your thoughts.

    JEff
  • rorrrorr Posts: 3,630
    Just out of curiousity; if you could locate a local Michelin dealer with the necessary tire-changing equipment, why not order PAX tires from tirerack.com, and have them shipped to the Michelin dealer for mounting on your existing PAX rims?

    I know this doesn't help in the event of a flat (when you're still stuck with going the Honda dealer route), but this would be an option to consider when it comes time to replace the tires due to wear.
  • mwalters1mwalters1 Posts: 10
    By the way Jeffrey, this isn't directed at you, just another thought. If it seems to be so time consuming, difficult and expensive to change, replace and repair PAX system tires locally, why on earth did Honda choose to put these on the "Touring" model? Touring implies long distance driving and vacation road trips. Imagine one has the entire family with the wife, three kids, grandma and the dog loaded up in the brand new Odyssey to drive three days to that Disney World vacation package you saved all year for, and you get a flat. Now imagine explaining to the kids why they're going to miss a day or two of Space Mountain while you wait for Michelin to "Care-Flight" out a new tire.
  • robsoorobsoo Posts: 7
    mtdream33,

    Can't speak for the Honda but don't buy the Sienna AWD.

    I currently owned a 2004 Sienna AWD LTD with RFT. Currently it has about 37K miles. To date, I had 2 flats and each tire costing a whopping $300 each.

    Today, I took my van to my mechanic and he said that all 4 tires needs to be replaced. This is insanity at the highest level! The van is kept in shape all the time and the mileage are mostly city. The air pressure is also checked on a regular basis.

    In retrospect, I wish I had knew more about the RFT problems. I would have NEVER bought this van with RFT.

    I very much regretted my decision.

    Five other close friends/relatives of mine have bought the Sienna since I bought mine and I have been able to convince all but one of them to avoid the RFT.

    Good luck in your purchase.

    Note: I do NOT work for any car industry and is just your regular consumer who is speaking out his mind.

    Rob in Chicago
  • cccompsoncccompson Posts: 2,388
    Actually, 37K on a city driven Sienna with run flats is VERY good wear. Highway driving is far easier, wear-wise.

    Best I've seen on a Sienna (owned by one of my staff) is 43K (and they are past the wear indicators).
  • jeffreyh2jeffreyh2 Posts: 50
    Because you won't find these tires on tirerack.com.

    Michelin apparently won't sell them to anyone who doesn't have the equipment and training to mount them.

    Just out of curiousity; if you could locate a local Michelin dealer with the necessary tire-changing equipment, why not order PAX tires from tirerack.com, and have them shipped to the Michelin dealer for mounting on your existing PAX rims?
  • rorrrorr Posts: 3,630
    "Because you won't find these tires on tirerack.com."

    Interesting.

    "Michelin apparently won't sell them to anyone who doesn't have the equipment and training to mount them."

    So, why doesn't the local Michelin dealer who DOES HAVE the proper PAX equipment order the tires?
  • mwalters1mwalters1 Posts: 10
    Think about it. If you are in business to make a profit, why would you stock a tire that is very expensive and you cannot sell to anyone but Odyssey Touring owners, most of whom are going to be ticked off at you when they find out the cost of replacement. Not only that, the special equipment to mount these tires costs thousands of dollars. Michelin isn't providing this equipment free of charge, these tire dealers have to buy it. No savvy businessman would ever lay out thousands of dollars on equipment, tires and wheels that they might sell just a handful of each year. One dealer I talked to said the special equipment costs around 25 thousand dollars and that's why no one wants to buy it.
  • rorrrorr Posts: 3,630
    "Not only that, the special equipment to mount these tires costs thousands of dollars. Michelin isn't providing this equipment free of charge, these tire dealers have to buy it."

    I know that.

    But according to an earlier post from jeffreyh2 (#524):

    "In my area there is 1 tire dealer who has the equipment to de-mount the PAX tires and claims he can repair repairable damage, but he cannot obtain new tires so replacements must be bought from a dealer and brought to him for mounting."

    Apparently, jeffreyh2 WAS ABLE to locate a Michelin dealer WITH the necessary equipment. So my question would be, if Michelin sold this dealer the necessary equipment, WHY wouldn't Michelin sell this dealer replacement PAX tires?

    Something doesn't pass the smell test on that.
  • mwalters1mwalters1 Posts: 10
    Nothing passes the "smell" test on these PAX system tires, and I believe this is rapidly turning into a huge embarrasment for both Honda and Michelin. Unfortunately for Honda, I think Odyssey Touring owners are going to look to Honda for relief rather than Michelin. If Honda was smart, they should immediately allow new Touring buyers the choice of a PAX system or not. Send a letter to current owners apologizing for their lack of disclosure and offering them a choice either to switch out their PAX system for regular wheels and tires at a nominal cost, or having the dealer install a spare tire with PAX system TPS free of charge. If Honda provides the rims, and Michelin provides the tires for this solution, maybe both companies can save face before the lawsuits start flying.
  • mtdream33mtdream33 Posts: 9
    Thanks Rob,

    I spoke with the service manager at one of our local Toyota dealerships and he said, as I think some others on here have, that if your runflats have excessive wear before the 36K mark, you can have all four replaced at no charge whatsoever-not that it helps you now, at 37K.

    He showed me the service bulletin. Among other things(and I'm paraphrasing here) it said "because Toyota cares about the safety of our customers"....and also something like "even though tread wear issues should be the jurisdiction of the tire manufacturer"...blah, blah, blah. You know, the blame game. But anyway, for others, it might be worth something.
  • jeffreyh2jeffreyh2 Posts: 50
    rorr,

    Good question, I haven't pursued the issue yet. I made one call to the tire dealer, which I found by looking on Michelin's web site, and they told me they can repair repairable PAX tires because they have the equipment, but they can't replace them unless I bring them a tire obtained from a dealer.

    Then I made one call to the Michelin PAX service line and asked why a dealer who had the equipment told me they couldn't get the tire. The Michelin guy told me he didn't know, the dealer ought to be able to get them if he'd been certified. I didn't mention specifically who the dealer was.

    One of these days I'll make some more calls to try to resolve the issue.

    JEff

    "So, why doesn't the local Michelin dealer who DOES HAVE the proper PAX equipment order the tires?"
  • rorrrorr Posts: 3,630
    It sounds like a good issue to explore. As mwalters pointed out, those dealers who wish to be certified have to invest a chunk of change in the PAX equipment. It would make NO sense for them to do this JUST to repair flats but not sell new PAX tires.

    If you mentioned the specific dealer to the folks on the Michelin PAX service line, perhaps they can tell you if that dealer is actually certified to service these tires?

    However, all of this just reinforces what I've thought ever since I heard about this new system: PAX might be the greatest thing since sliced bread, but making the tire/wheel system a proprietary system requiring specialized equipment and limited availability makes it a likely market failure.

    As was pointed out nearly 2-years ago in this Forum: Michelin has a history of doing this (proprietary tire/wheel systems) and NONE of these were ultimately successful (anyone remember the TRX tires?).
  • cccompsoncccompson Posts: 2,388
    Apparently Honda believes otherwise as the word is that PAX will be offered on some '07 Accords.
  • mwalters1mwalters1 Posts: 10
    Hopefully for future Accord buyers, "offered", not mandatory if you want power seats or a sunroof.
  • clesscless Posts: 1
    Does ANYONE know how to turn off the PAX run flat warning dash light on the HONDA TOURING van. I have switched out my tires and rims but the light in the dash wont go off. PLEASE, PLEASE,PLEASE help me!
  • mwalters1mwalters1 Posts: 10
    You have to use the valve stems from the PAX wheels. They contain the tire pressure sensors that send a radio signal back to your dash computer, which should fix your problem.
  • neogeo212neogeo212 Posts: 4
    Just took my 2005 ODYSSEY in for the 30,000 mile check. I,m told my tires need to be replaced, all 4 50,000 mile PAX system tires.I also need two front break pads.Total cost $1,600. It seems that on of my rims has a scratch on it so MICHELIN won't replace the rim. One rim is $575. My dealer tells me that i can change to regular tires, that's only $1300. I checked the MICHELIN web site to check on the tire warranty, because honda tells me that tire wear is MICHELIN'S responsibility not HONDA'S. Lastly the PAX system tire rates a 6 out 10 wear rating from MICHELIN. THANKS HONDA.
  • ody681ody681 Posts: 2
    I reently had a flat on our 05 touring and ended up driving about 150 miles on the flat over a wide range of urban & interstae roads. Overall while a bit noisy, the performance and handling were remarkably good. I'm curious what other folks' experience has been with flats on PAX????
  • diblock1diblock1 Posts: 1
    This past Sunday my family and I were getting on the freeway when all of a sudden there was a loud pop as if I had gone over something, my tire was flat and the car starting squirming. I pulled over onto the side of the freeway and my husband got out and checked, the lft rear PAX tire was completely split across the middle and flat. We couldnt even get back on the freeway to get off safely, we had to drive on the shoulder and get off to the closest gas station. No place was opened as it was 6pm on Sat. Since there is no spare for this car, we were SOL! A tow truck came and followed us to a tire shop that was still open about 3 miles driving no more than 10mph. They put a used tire on for us, just to get us home which was 30 miles. We took the car in to Honda today and the entire wheel has to be replaced as well as the rear shox that was damaged during our 3-5 mile drive to repair. We called Honda Corp. to see if they would reimburse us the cost of the used tire, and all they could say was theyve never heard of this happen and that we should have been able to drive the car for 150 miles more. Clearly we couldnt we were getting close to driving on the rim. We asked if they would supply a spare incase this happens again, and they wouldnt do that either. Now my car is in the shop waiting on the tire and the shox. This is obviously a problem with the tire that needs to be known. So much for your security. We would have been better of not paying the extra 8K for the Touring model for the "run flat" tires at least we would have a spare!
  • rorrrorr Posts: 3,630
    "They put a used tire on for us, just to get us home which was 30 miles."

    Interesting. I was under the impression that PAX rims wouldn't accept non-PAX tires. I guess the tire store also had some regular Honda rims in stock for you?
  • chirpchirp Posts: 194
    That doesn't sound good. Were you able to take any pictures of the tire and would you post one if you have it. I have never seen a tire split across the middle and I'm driving a Touring as well. Thanks.
  • mleeodymleeody Posts: 7
    Many of the comments I’ve read about PAX are based on theory and only in theory is the idea great. My family had a PAX tire episode that is eerily similar to yours. My wife and daughter were stranded along I-10 between Tallahassee and Pensacola in our new Odyssey Touring minivan. The inner sidewall of the left rear PAX tire literally came apart leaving the tread to be held only by the outer sidewall. The vehicle was not drivable and they waited there for three hours, late at night, along I-10, while the flatbed tow truck PAX sent tried to find them. My wife was thankful that all the people who stopped did so to help. Of course, all of them were in disbelief that Honda sold a new vehicle without a spare and drove off when they realized there was nothing they could do to help.

    It is because of this that I gathered the part numbers of the items I would need (from EX-L model) to put the spare back where it belongs. The jack and lug wrench are already there. Honda did not remove these when they removed the spare. Why? – Thankful still that I don’t need to buy these. My biggest problem so far is finding the tire itself (42751-GYR-034). All the other parts are readily available.

    I called Honda’s problem hot line to see if they can help get the part since it appears to be on nation wide backorder in spite of the fact that probably hundreds of EX-Ls roll off the assembly line every day with the exact part I need. They assigned me a case number and in a few days contacted me with their official response. It blew me away when the Honda rep said not only would she not help me find a spare tire, but that if I did find one on my own and put it in the van that it would “negatively impact” my warranty! After getting off the phone with her, I was in disbelief. I called back to talk with her supervisor to verify my understanding that Honda may not fully honor the warranty because I carry a spare tire!? They would not let me talk with her supervisor when I asked and instead transferred my call back to the lady who original said she would not help. When I asked her directly to speak to her supervisor she told me that she did not have one. (wow I must have been speaking to the president of Honda!)

    If anybody knows how to purchase the tire part of the spare, please respond.

    If anybody has influence inside of Honda, contact me so I can give you my case number and this lady’s name. You might be interested in hearing how I was treated (if the calls are taped). But more importantly how she represented Honda during the call(s).
  • cccompsoncccompson Posts: 2,388
    No, Honda was saying that they may not honor the warranty if you USE a spare tire.

    Page 359 of the '05 Odyssey Owner's Manual states, "If you get a flat tire, never try to repair it by yourself, and never replace a flat tire with a compact spare tire." There it is - NEVER use a compact spare on a Touring.

    On page 358 the manual makes clear that PAX is a run flat tire when it has been "punctured." It sounds as though you (and the earlier poster) suffered structural collapse or hit some significant debris causing catastrophic failure rather than a puncture.

    That said, I do agree that your treatment by Honda customer service left more than a little to be desired.

    Also, also am curious as to the cause of your tire failure - has anyone been able to diagnose it?
  • mleeodymleeody Posts: 7
    I have pictures of the tire before Michelin took it, but they never gave their opinion nor contacted us for more information.

    My wife said there was nothing on the road, but I figured a nail or screw is not visible at highway speeds. She just noticed the dash warning of low tire pressure, reduced her speed and soon the van started thumping, shaking and rattling. She also noticed the smell of burning rubber and that was when she decided that PAX was not supposed to work like this. I’m glad she didn’t continue and so was the person from PAX.
  • heywood1heywood1 Posts: 850
    Where's Isell and his rose-colored spectacles?
  • mleeodymleeody Posts: 7
    After thinking about this some more... I wonder, since Honda says “NEVER” use a compact spare on a Touring, do the Tourings sold in Canada (non-PAX) not have a spare? Did they modify the transmission / drive train to accommodate the possible use of a spare if it does have one? Do they have a jack and lug wrench with their spare? Maybe there is trouble putting a Goodyear spare in Michelin equipped vehicle? These are all questions I don’t know the answer to, but I am awfully suspicious about that last one.
  • cccompsoncccompson Posts: 2,388
    My understanding is that all Tourings sold in Canada are equipped with regular tires and a spare.

    Not sure why Honda says to "never" use a compact spare on a PAX equipped vehicle. Also of note, they also say such a vehicle should only be flat-bed towed if the need arises.
  • oldbob1oldbob1 Posts: 5
    We have had two (2) PAX tires replaced. I purchased my 2005 Honda Odyssey touring model in April of 2005. One tire and a screw and another had a nail in it. I check my tire pressure each time I start the car and rotate the tires every 5000 miles.. In both cases I noticed a change of about 3 to 4 pounds lower in one tire. I called the Honda dealer and made an appointment for that day to have the tire looked at. They replaced both tires rims and all. Each tire was a sperate incident about 8 months apart. There was no hassle. The systems seems to work for me. However my milage is over 46,000. I am not getting any where in finding a tire only replacement to replace two worn tires. I am told that I have about 10,000 miles left on the two original tires. at about $850 per tire and rim (the only way to replace worn tires at this date). Honda nor Michelin will quote even ball park numbers for wear or when tires for PAX will be available
  • cccompsoncccompson Posts: 2,388
    You need to talk with some other folks as PAX tires are available for less than $200 apiece.

    If someone is trying to sell you a tire/wheel combo for $850 they are trying to rip you off.

    Am glad to hear that you've gotten that much mileage out of the set as some have reported short (20K) treadwear life.
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