I am 99% certain the next LS will offer AWD. Lexus has already begun offering AWD on the GS and the IS will have it as an option as well. Also, here is a quote from Denny Clements (just retired Lexus GM) in a magazine article interview from one year ago:
"Clements said Lexus and parent Toyota Motor Corp. have set this stir-things-up agenda for the next few years:
A new distinct design specific to Lexus, to be seen first in the 2005 GS 430 and evolving from there.
A redesign of each car line by spring 2007.
All-wheel drive availability with the redesigns.
The addition of a flagship above the LS 430.
The creation of a factory performance division, akin to Mercedes-Benz's AMG."
The LS430 is the car that defines everything that Lexus stands for: Refinement, Luxury, Reliability.
The ES330 is the "ultra-lite" version.
The RX330 is the "family-lite" version.
The ES and RX pay the bills because those buyers want to be coddled in their cars and don't care how fun it is to drive. They want a refined, comfortable cabin, with technology and reliability.
I suspect Kevin & Ken have already said too much and would not post here again, imo. The information they provided was way too much than Lexus would permit on their ultra-secretive LS project, so we may as well get used to not hearing much *official* info any longer, at least I am resigned to that fact.
Which leaves us to continue our speculation... Isn't that more fun anyway ???
Were they really Lexus people? Think about it. What did they have to gain? They certainly had a lot to lose and if they were really Lexus personnel they probably violated company policy.
I agree that I was always slightly suspicious of them. If they were truly lexus people, then why would they risk placing their jobs in such risk. Edmunds is a well known location and certainly somewhere Lexus would be keeping an eye on in their secretive activities. And further, unless these two were extremely careful, it would not be hard for Toyota to trace down their true identities, using IP addresses and the like. Remember, these are secrets related to a multi-billion dollar development, and judging by Apple's activities regarding much smaller technology developments, Lexus would absolutely not stand for such a blatant breach of their trade secrets.
OK, we'll never know for sure - well, I guess when the LS is released we'll see if any of their predictions come true. Let's just stick to talking about the 07 LS for now.
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Probably a couple of Japanese auto enthusiasts having some fun. Anyone of importance in the development of a car like the LS will be in the den of secrecy secured by employment contracts or non-disclosure agreements. Above all they'd be banned from making comments in public forums or internet sites and most certainly to the press - and let's remember this is Toyota we are dealing with and they are as top secret as it gets in this industry. So why post on a public board viewed by a couple of dozen or so posters and maybe another couple of dozen readers - and with nothing to gain financially or emotionally. You've got to realize that building a new model like that is akin to acquiring a public company. Having led such an acquisition I know what that secrecy is like. The leader and a few others know what is going on and the rest are supposed to be in the dark. But that is impossible over the long run. Some of the people under me had no idea of what they were researching (at least not the end game) but a handful figured it out. So one Monday I met with the ones I suspected knew and told them they'd be gone in 24 hours if I suspected any leaks. Later I met with the larger group and said the same thing - albeit the departure would be for different reasons. As for the LS there are so many tidbits around that someone could carry on a charade. What was really telling is they knew nothing about the 8 speed tranny or the 12cyl supercar. On top of that you have not one, but a few and they are involved in different - supposedly secret projects. Moreover, Japanese employees toe the line about as well as or better than anyone in the world. You go there often enough, so you probably know that first hand and a lot better than me. I never bought their story, which is why I rarely commented on it - with them or the board.
I do see your point. Yes, I frequent Japan enough to know about the society (as much as a visitor can) that's why I am conflicted on this... Oh well... we'll see soon enough. I suppose the LF-S (LS prototype) is expected at next month's Tokyo Auto Show, no ? I expect Lexus will start showing the prototype sometime this year, to put paid to all of our speculation.
Probably a couple of Japanese auto enthusiasts having some fun.
That's a possibility. Yet I am still inclined to believe them. If they provide some more details and the predictions (and their earlier predictions) turn out to be correct, then we will know whether Ken and Kevin are who they say they are.
I thought I had read that it would be on debut at the Tokyo auto show late next month. By the way these are the guys that got the IS and LS confused, something that is also hard to do. I had forgotten about that.
OAC - atre there deputy titles in Japanesse companies?
When I looked over your link I also noted that Kelvin was part of his user name and that's also how he introduced himself. But after that it magically became Kevin. I'll bet the last names they chose are real names of Toyota personnel though.
Syswei - These guys also seem to monitor the Japanese boards which is where they may well be picking up the rumors of what will be on the car. They had a lot of generalizations and "might be's" in their posts. That doesn't sound to me like people in the know. People in the know are very matter of fact about things.
OK... Seriously, that's enough debate on this issue. Please return to discussing the LS rather than other members. Further posts along this line will simply be deleted.
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No, I havent seen that one before. Its lookin good. I would suggest to Lexus that they include an A8 in their tests, I think its better than both the 7 and the S.
Agree - although the next S will be the latest thing out of Germany pretty soon. That LS sketch is a beauty. I'd lessen the notchback a bit though - too BMWish -and I've always thought the notchback was an overdone design. A look like that makes sense if Lexus is going to a one-based design system - ala the Germans. It's really a bigger looking GS and IS and in that pix retains a real high-end lux look. I like the stance of the car as well but I'd think Lexus will use a larger grill on the LS. That is really a GS grill.
My car is due in for service. I'm going see if I can get some news from the dealer.
I don't see the car you are talking about in that link. All I saw was the 2006 IS, and a pair of LS430 test mules.... Nothing in the link even remotely resembles anything LS460.... Maybe its an LS460 with an LS430 body.... otherwise, nothing really special about the cars in the link.. Am I missing something ?
Me either. If this is a 460 next to a 430 then no one but super enthusiasts will be able to tell them apart. If this is true - what a disappoinment! Lexus truly needs to jazz up the 460 a little. My sense is that this is NOT a 460 - unless, like you, there is another picture hidden in there somewhere.
oac, that poorly photoshopped car that you called the 2006 IS is supposed to be the LS460!!! I have no idea why people go through the trouble to put a GS grille on an IS and then change the bottom lip of the bumper, elongate the wheelbase and then call it a "Future Look at the Next Generation LS"! Stupid, stupid, stupid! Basically, there's no news so far, so car connection decided to throw some fluff at us.
All kidding aside, the way you can tell is by the shaved fenders to allow for a bigger car underneath to fit the sheetmetal of the LS 430. Clearly, the new LS 460 is a much wider car because the wheelbase doesn't fit in the 430 shell. This is indeed the 460.
I can't wait until I see this car! I am more excited to see this car more than any other car. Well, it will be interesting to see how the next generation ES, SC, and uber-IS turn out...
When is it by the way? In October? As far as I know, the only Tokyo auto show in October is for commercial vehicles. Where will we see the new LS unveiled? I wanna see it!
One of the tidbits on the LS in one of the mags said the car would be unveiled at the Tokyo show later this year. This is the on-year for consumer vehicles - which run every other year (remember the LFS was unveiled at the 2003 show). The LS is a must for this years show given the world debut of Lexus and the debut of the next LS would occur prior to the next consumer show in October of 2007. No way does Lexus miss this show with the next LS. So perhaps 30 days from now we know the real deal with the car.
I'm sure the next gen Camry will be on display also. I fully expect the LS to be there but what I'm equally interested in is to see if the HPX, next gen LX or GX makes this show as well.
OAC, good friend - Any trips to Tokyo in the next 30 days??
Len, nope... No trips to Japan this year. I would have gone to Tokyo this December, but I just quit my job, so that's that.... BTW, I'd like to ping you on getting some ideas of locations to live in NJ... My new job is based out of Philadelphia, but I'd rather prefer to live up in NJ. Any ideas ? You can e-mail me at oclement33@yahoo.com
Mike, I am pretty much of an enthusiast myself. That said, one of the biggest knocks on the LS is the "staid styling". You must admit that looking at the picture of the supposed 460 next to the 430, that only folks such as yourself are going to immediately notice the difference. Now, I doubt that Lexus will go for as dramatic a change as some hope for - the family resemblance must remain; however, I would be shocked if what we see in that picture is the "real 460". I strongly believe that we will see more of a LF-S flavor to the car, even if subdued for this top marque.
OAC - Just saw your post and am headed out for dinner. Give me some time for thought - but further east in NJ toward Monmouth county is the area I know inside out. Without question the most beautiful area in western NJ nearer to Philly is Princeton. Much of Mercer county is beautiful with Princeton itself being the top area -but that might be a decent commute to Philly. I assume you'd prefer driving given you are coming from California. Philly is a nice city. It lives under the shadow of NYC but it is really a nice place. I had friends there and used to go often (as in 10-15 years ago, but those friends have now moved to Morristown NJ which is west of Newark and NYC). But in all honesty my number 1 spot to live - if I worked in or around Philly would be Bucks county, Pa. Very historic (where Washington crossed the Delaware) and beautiful area on the Delaware river with New Hope as a must visit town. My second spot would be the Valley Forge, Pa area - a NW Philly suburb and a surburban corporate locale. Many large upscale homes are in that area. My third spot would be Princeton because it may be a bit distant in commuting - depending on where in Philly you are working. Take out the commute and I'd flip a coin between Bucks County and Princeton. But don't underestimate that Valley Forge area either. Here's a link to Buck county and I'm sure you'll find many more on the web.
True. I would have said the same thing a while ago too, before the new Avalon came out. People said that the car would deffinitely not be getting the new 3.5L engine with 280 Hp and instead get a 3.3L with 220 Hp, or that its styling would remain subdued. However, what happened is that it got a 280 Hp engine (which shocked all the speculators), and its styling went more agressive and sporty which even a young buck like myself (19) could appreciate from a car that is normally considered for retirees (60+). I am considering the Avalon or the IS 250/350, however it would go to the IS if it impresses me as much as I think it will.
I have no big problems with the styling of the LS; it has a lot of prominence in its appearance. A few tweaks here or there would do it for me but on the other hand I would also appreciate a full overhaul of the exterior which is due. The shaved fenders indicate a much wider stance, as well as the larger, low profile wheels. I am expecting a big change in the exterior styling and I think people will be shocked, but in a good way.
Much racier style but also the type of style you make a bold statement with. Soften it up a bit, with a more natural luxury grill for this class and I could see this being the next LS. Click thru to see all 4 parts.
Well... I don't think that picture is very accurate. It looks very clearly like a photoshop by the publication... especially when you look at the windshield. Also, the profile looks like a modified pumped up ES.
Also odd is the fact that it says the car is expected to cost 55,000 GBP. If I am not mistaken, that is lower than the current list price in the UK.
I think that is a great looking car and fits many of the profiles that have been shown. But I think a genuine pix will have with it a pix of the interior as well so I'll remain suspect of that being the real thing. But it's what I would expect if you soften up those autospies sketches. It also states the LS600H will be pure LWB unless I read it wrong. Whether it is right or not remains to be seen but in the text of the story it says the car will be at the Tokyo show and that's only two weeks away. So if that tidbit is right we will see plenty of next gen LS pix at the show and I'm sure we'll find out about the adaptive suspension. By the way 50K in sterling is $90K. Don't know what tax duties in the UK are but I'd guess the 600H is a $75-80k car here and will have every base car option as standard equip. and then probably have a few additional options on top of that.
OAC - Just saw your post and am headed out for dinner. Give me some time for thought - but further east in NJ toward Monmouth county is the area I know inside out. Without question the most beautiful area in western NJ nearer to Philly is Princeton. Much of Mercer county is beautiful with Princeton itself being the top area -but that might be a decent commute to Philly. I assume you'd prefer driving given you are coming from California. Philly is a nice city. It lives under the shadow of NYC but it is really a nice place. I had friends there and used to go often (as in 10-15 years ago, but those friends have now moved to Morristown NJ which is west of Newark and NYC). But in all honesty my number 1 spot to live - if I worked in or around Philly would be Bucks county, Pa. Very historic (where Washington crossed the Delaware) and beautiful area on the Delaware river with New Hope as a must visit town.....
Thanks, Len. Truly appreciated....Been travelling some, and then to Europe in a couple of weeks. I will check out the suggestions you gave. My friend (an MD) just moved to NJ (East Hanover) and his family and mine are real close. My kids want NJ for the great school, and my boss suggests Moorestown (where his family lives). I guess I have until next Summer to move, so plenty of time to go house and location hunting....
BTW, those LS sketches are no where remotely close to the real thing. The real thing was posted a while back on this forum....You will see that I am vindicated with the sketch nexuslexus posted way back in June/July on this forum.
OAC - That was a stunning car also. I've got a great feeling about this next LS. It's going to be a benchmark car. I'm glad to see them finally going to a LWB edition as a choice. I have a strong feeling they will underestimate the demand for the LWB car though. Of course with your new location you may now be interested in AWD as you are entering snow country. The area you are interested in got 3 feet in the 96 blizzard and 2.5 feet in the 2002 blizzard. Of course I got the same here and maybe even a bit more in 96 when some areas measured as much as 40-42" of snow here in central NJ.
Here's a decent local map of the area around Princeton. I'd be at war with myself about the Princeton area vs. Bucks County if I was in your shoes. Princeton, Princeton Junction, Lawrenceville and to a slightly lesser extent Plainsboro are real upscale towns. I don't know Moorestown at all. The big money is in Princeton along with great restaurants, the university and a lot of charm. Bucks county on the other hand is more quaint and rural but absolutely gorgeous and is also very upscale. Keep me posted and anything I come up with I'll e-mail onto you. BTW - the I95 on that map is not the NJ Turnpike of the famous I95 corridor. This I95 runs south into Philly. Somehow the NJ Turnpike (which is likely the green road on the far right) loses its I95 name in central NJ and instead becomes "TO 95" as a route back to I95 that then goes down thru Baltimore and DC. Of course none of that matters to any New Jerseyan as it simply is "The turnpike" to us.
I am extremely surprised that nobody has noticed the almost too coincidental similarity to the new Avalon. It is in fact a photoshop. There is practically no L-Finesse in the side profile. Definitely not a "swept-back" profile of something "in motion" like the L-Finesse design philosophy is supposed to imitate.
This is a much more likely LS, which I like very, very much
I personally believe the picture posted by autoexpress is close to the real thing. But I see some resemblance to other cars. The side looks like the Infiniti I30, the back looks like the Audi A8. But the front does have that L-finess design cues. Also notice the GS and IS have vertical grilles. This supposedly actual picture of the new LS is horizontal. I'm not sure if it's relevant but I thought all future Lexus models will share the same theme and one being the signature grille(just like GS, IS & RX). Overall, it's a nice sedan IMO. I can't wait to see the real thing. Hope it will be unveiled this coming Tokyo autoshow.
I think the car at the bottom (OAC's car from June) will be close to the real car. It's very original and in a league of its own which is what Lexus has been saying this car will be. It also lends itself better to a LWB stretch. Don't buy into any photos unless you see the interior as an accompanyment at this point. Lexus isn't about to let someopne show the exterior and omit the interior. I'd expect this interior is going to be an absolute knockout.
I agree, the real thing will come from Lexus and there wil be plenty of them....I just sort of think that the picture has the essence of what will come...The attracive sketch with the front wheel flare to me looks very attractive but not what I think they will do...The car looks flat and wide very sporty, but I wonder...Tony
Tony - that's why I think that is it. Those spy shots I posted earlier with the car under the existing body undergoing tests in Germany clearly show a noticably wider car is coming and someone had posted about that as well. That wider body also lends itself to a more attractive stretched/long wheel base car design. I'm expecting this next LS will be very aggressive.
If that was actually it, Lexus would be doomed. Most of it seems pulled directly from the current car, with some kind of funky Benz tear drop rip off headlamps, and a monster rear overhang that looks like it came off of a '03 M45. Uuuugly.
Comments
"Clements said Lexus and parent Toyota Motor Corp. have set this stir-things-up agenda for the next few years:
A new distinct design specific to Lexus, to be seen first in the 2005 GS 430 and evolving from there.
A redesign of each car line by spring 2007.
All-wheel drive availability with the redesigns.
The addition of a flagship above the LS 430.
The creation of a factory performance division, akin to Mercedes-Benz's AMG."
The ES330 is the "ultra-lite" version.
The RX330 is the "family-lite" version.
The ES and RX pay the bills because those buyers want to be coddled in their cars and don't care how fun it is to drive. They want a refined, comfortable cabin, with technology and reliability.
Which leaves us to continue our speculation... Isn't that more fun anyway ???
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I just want to refresh ourselves of the actual posts by these gentlemen....
yamamurakelvin, "2007 Lexus LS" #316, 16 Jun 2005 10:49 pm
There seemed to be some air of knowingness to their posts that makes me want to believe them.
Or am I just gullible ??? Please re-read these posts in the link here....
Probably a couple of Japanese auto enthusiasts having some fun. Anyone of importance in the development of a car like the LS will be in the den of secrecy secured by employment contracts or non-disclosure agreements. Above all they'd be banned from making comments in public forums or internet sites and most certainly to the press - and let's remember this is Toyota we are dealing with and they are as top secret as it gets in this industry. So why post on a public board viewed by a couple of dozen or so posters and maybe another couple of dozen readers - and with nothing to gain financially or emotionally. You've got to realize that building a new model like that is akin to acquiring a public company. Having led such an acquisition I know what that secrecy is like. The leader and a few others know what is going on and the rest are supposed to be in the dark. But that is impossible over the long run. Some of the people under me had no idea of what they were researching (at least not the end game) but a handful figured it out. So one Monday I met with the ones I suspected knew and told them they'd be gone in 24 hours if I suspected any leaks. Later I met with the larger group and said the same thing - albeit the departure would be for different reasons. As for the LS there are so many tidbits around that someone could carry on a charade. What was really telling is they knew nothing about the 8 speed tranny or the 12cyl supercar. On top of that you have not one, but a few and they are involved in different - supposedly secret projects. Moreover, Japanese employees toe the line about as well as or better than anyone in the world. You go there often enough, so you probably know that first hand and a lot better than me. I never bought their story, which is why I rarely commented on it - with them or the board.
That's a possibility. Yet I am still inclined to believe them. If they provide some more details and the predictions (and their earlier predictions) turn out to be correct, then we will know whether Ken and Kevin are who they say they are.
OAC - atre there deputy titles in Japanesse companies?
When I looked over your link I also noted that Kelvin was part of his user name and that's also how he introduced himself. But after that it magically became Kevin. I'll bet the last names they chose are real names of Toyota personnel though.
Syswei - These guys also seem to monitor the Japanese boards which is where they may well be picking up the rumors of what will be on the car. They had a lot of generalizations and "might be's" in their posts. That doesn't sound to me like people in the know. People in the know are very matter of fact about things.
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http://www.thecarconnection.com/Enthusiasts/Spy_Shots/Spy_Shots_Lexus_LS_460_LS_460h.S178.- A9342.html
My car is due in for service. I'm going see if I can get some news from the dealer.
Boo. :sick:
All kidding aside, the way you can tell is by the shaved fenders to allow for a bigger car underneath to fit the sheetmetal of the LS 430. Clearly, the new LS 460 is a much wider car because the wheelbase doesn't fit in the 430 shell. This is indeed the 460.
I can't wait until I see this car! I am more excited to see this car more than any other car. Well, it will be interesting to see how the next generation ES, SC, and uber-IS turn out...
I'm sure the next gen Camry will be on display also. I fully expect the LS to be there but what I'm equally interested in is to see if the HPX, next gen LX or GX makes this show as well.
OAC, good friend - Any trips to Tokyo in the next 30 days??
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Autoshows/CityIndex/articleId=106043
And one more - but you may need PW access for some of this.
http://www.tokyo-motorshow.com/show/2005/english/public/outline/index.shtml
I would also imagine that the new ES 350 would be unvailed as well.
Thx
http://www.emarketingrealestate.com/charm.htm
I have no big problems with the styling of the LS; it has a lot of prominence in its appearance. A few tweaks here or there would do it for me but on the other hand I would also appreciate a full overhaul of the exterior which is due. The shaved fenders indicate a much wider stance, as well as the larger, low profile wheels. I am expecting a big change in the exterior styling and I think people will be shocked, but in a good way.
I don't know how relevant this is. I think it looks like an Acura RL. I hope the real thing looks nothing like this.
http://www.autospies.com/article/index.asp?articleId=5229&categoryId=1
Also odd is the fact that it says the car is expected to cost 55,000 GBP. If I am not mistaken, that is lower than the current list price in the UK.
Thanks, Len. Truly appreciated....Been travelling some, and then to Europe in a couple of weeks. I will check out the suggestions you gave. My friend (an MD) just moved to NJ (East Hanover) and his family and mine are real close. My kids want NJ for the great school, and my boss suggests Moorestown (where his family lives). I guess I have until next Summer to move, so plenty of time to go house and location hunting....
BTW, those LS sketches are no where remotely close to the real thing. The real thing was posted a while back on this forum....You will see that I am vindicated with the sketch nexuslexus posted way back in June/July on this forum.
Here's a decent local map of the area around Princeton. I'd be at war with myself about the Princeton area vs. Bucks County if I was in your shoes. Princeton, Princeton Junction, Lawrenceville and to a slightly lesser extent Plainsboro are real upscale towns. I don't know Moorestown at all. The big money is in Princeton along with great restaurants, the university and a lot of charm. Bucks county on the other hand is more quaint and rural but absolutely gorgeous and is also very upscale. Keep me posted and anything I come up with I'll e-mail onto you. BTW - the I95 on that map is not the NJ Turnpike of the famous I95 corridor. This I95 runs south into Philly. Somehow the NJ Turnpike (which is likely the green road on the far right) loses its I95 name in central NJ and instead becomes "TO 95" as a route back to I95 that then goes down thru Baltimore and DC. Of course none of that matters to any New Jerseyan as it simply is "The turnpike" to us.
http://www.lawrencevillemainstreet.com/maps.htm
There is practically no L-Finesse in the side profile. Definitely not a "swept-back" profile of something "in motion" like the L-Finesse design philosophy is supposed to imitate.
This is a much more likely LS, which I like very, very much
I've never been more excited for a car unveiling. I can only imagine what the interior will look like. Best in show. :shades: