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Lexus LS 460/LS 460L Styling Impressions



  • sysweisyswei Posts: 1,804
    Assuming you are not watching the IS or GS boards, you might want to be aware that there is a general consensus among people interested in the IS that VDIM should have an on/off switch, so that the driver at his option can disable it. For example see:

    I do understand that switching it off would have a safety impact, but I am sure Lexus could provide a label with that disclaimer.

    P.S. I am not suggesting that such an option is needed for the LS. But the IS and GS, given their more sporty orientation, could use it.
  • oacoac Posts: 1,594
    syswei: "But the IS and GS, given their more sporty orientation, could use it."

    You are too nice to put it so mildly. Instead of "could use it", I'd say "NEEDS IT". Lexus should stop playing cop-and-robber. They either want to provide a sporty car, or want to provide a luxury car ? The LS is plenty luxurious for those inclined for such, the IS should be the complete opposite - plenty sporty, without any need for an intrusive nanny. Imagine the build quality, refinement and luxury features of an IS combined with the edgy performance of a WRX/STi or Evo in the 2006 IS350? That car will rock the world of the e90/G/Audi and re-define the sector... Suffice to say, that it'd be a winner anyday.... Why-o-why won't Lexus take their foot off the *safety-at-all-cost* for the IS and let this car be a true sport-biased luxury sedan as everyone wants it to be ???? I'll repeat myself here: LEXUS, are you listening ?????
  • sysweisyswei Posts: 1,804
    Agreed. It is especially true with the IS that Lexus should go "all the way" with sport, because it is similar in price to the ES, so the ES can serve the cushy-ride type of buyer.
  • rcf8000rcf8000 Posts: 619
    Before Lexus goes to 8 speeds, I'd like to see them properly program the 6 speed. It is way too anxious to upshift and way too reluctant to downshift. I am very disappointed in it.
  • AMEN!!!!! basically every other luxury nameplate that has, a safety system... has an override option; or isnt has 'parenting' as the Lexus systems. The last GS had this option, but it wouldn't fully turn off. why oh why cant lexus listen to its customers, and just have an 'off' switch.
  • jchan2jchan2 Posts: 4,956
    Does anybody have anything new to add?
  • nissmannissman Posts: 8
    "I also have my doubts on the CVT on the 460 and the GT versions. However it is very much possible that the 600h will have a CVT, considering that 400h has a CVT. And because that will probably reduce the quality of the ride, the 8-speed tranny, that would be a very busy shifter. I am thinking either a revised version of the 6-speed the LS has now, or a new 7-speed. "

    I was following the 8-speed debate because according to clublexus it has an 8-speed:-

    Development code name: 070X
    Production code name: 250L
    Length: 5,100mm (vs. 5,025mm of LS430)
    Width: 1,850mm (vs. 1,830mm of LS430)
    Height: 1,480mm (vs. 1,490mm/1,470mm (air suspension) of LS430)
    Wheelbase: 2,980mm (vs. 2,925mm of LS430)
    Engine: 4UZ-FSE 4.6L V-8 (vs......well we all know)
    Horsepower: 350hp @ 6,000rpm (vs. 290hp @ 5,600rpm)
    Torque: 48.0kgm @ 3,300rpm (vs. 42.5kgm of LS430)
    Transmission: 8-speed automatic (!!)
    Fuel efficiency average: 9.5km/l (=22.35mpg, vs. 18/25mpg of LS430)

    Maybe Kevin can add a comment, and tidy up the 8-speed question. I'm going to guess the LS600H 7-speed is the same as the one announced for the GS450H, I don't think it is CVT based though, which is odd as all the other Toyota hybrid trannies are CVT based.
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,690
    More LS tidbits, this one from Motor Trend :

    Lexus is developing an 8-speed transmission for the 2009 LSS, the V12 stretched version of the next gen LS.

    Well it seems Lexus is going that three model route, LS460, LS600H and LSS in this new generation car and with tuning options on top of that. It's what I've heard for awhile now and each new level will have rapidly increasing power plants. But this opens the door for a flood of questions. Is the stretched car only available with the V12 engine? I doubt it. It was supposed to be available in the mid level car and standard on the high-end car. Next question - Why buy a V12 when you get V12 power with V6 economy in the V8 600H? The only answer I can think of is that this LSS is their super $105-115K+ car and maybe it will be a V12 hybrid breaking newer ground still. I'll bet this LSS is the 600HP car that my dealer told me they were coming to market with. It drew a lot of disbelief here but if the 600h gets high 4's to 500 then the next level up will have to go another 100HP or more higher. Supposedly this new LSS begins production in early 2008 so it is probably an April 2008 debut as a 2009 model.

    I'm still wondering if Car and Driver has it right with the LS460 debut as sping 2006. Do we really have a new LS in 9 months??
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    "A web search seems to show them working on a full-toroidal IVT with a company called Torotrak - smaller, very fuel efficient and with geared neutral (neat)."

    That's it, nissman - I was a little foggy, it's been a while. I don't know when they'll get it out, but they think they can get a ton of mileage from an Expedition with this tranny, according to my friend. That's what I was referring to, please excuse my error.
  • ideleidele Posts: 200
    The Toyota top limousine is the Century with a V12 engine, a distinct traditional design and a rather staid car. I would guess that just as the Celsior (equivalent to LS) disappears from the Toyota stable, to become the new LS in the Lexus stable, the top of the line Century will also disappear from the Toyota stable, to become the Lexus LSS. Given my experience with my 12 day old RX400H I will purchase only hybrid cars in the future. I am hoping that the LS600H is, and I believe it will be, the production version of the LF-S shown Los Angeles earlier this year.
  • sysweisyswei Posts: 1,804
    Thanks for that info, I don't get MT. This is the first indication I think we've had that the 2007 cars might not have a LWB option.

    My bet is that the 2007 comes in the fall not spring of 06.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    Yeah thats what Im thinking too. September or October.
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,690
    It's very clear in the brief that the LSS is a stretched version of the next gen LS and not the Century, which is a totally different car. The Century is hardly a car that Lexus would come out with in the middle of an image change. If the Century ever makes it here, which is a close to zero chance, it won't wear a Lexus badge. Stories of a stretched LS have been carried for a long time now and Lexus almost put one out in 2001.
  • mikegillermikegiller Posts: 602
    The Century will not disappear from the Toyota stable since Kevin is currently working on the new V12, and the design for that car. It will be newly designed for 2007/8 still as the Toyota Century. What indication do you have that the Century Limousine will become the performance super LS?
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,690
    I was thinking that too and was surprised to see C&D note a spring 2006 debut. But business wise it may be smart to hit the S-class head-on. That is not a potent looking new S-class either. I'd say it's quite vulnerable. I guess we'll get the real details at the Tokyo auto show.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    "That is not a potent looking new S-class either"

    No, it isnt. Its a baby Maybach with a cut-and-paste BMW 7 interior. If I were BMW, I'd either be very flattered, or angry.
  • chris65amgchris65amg Posts: 372
    The S600 and higher trim levels are a sitting duck, as is the 760iL. The XJ extended length one (is it Vanden Plas?) may also suffer. Come to think of it, I think they all would if a super LS stretched came out.
  • ideleidele Posts: 200
    Quote: "What indication do you have that the Century Limousine will become the performance super LS?"
    Rational thought. I stated it was a guess. Given that Lexus will have 180 dealers in Japan and it is established as Toyota's premium brand , I would think it doubtful to have the top of the line car labeled a Toyota. But as I said I'm only guessing. I bought TM stock (ADR's consisting of 2 Japanese shares) about a month ago when I ordered my RX400h and as of today it's up 5.13 per cent. That beats waiting for bigger discounts on the RX400h.
  • jack27jack27 Posts: 5
    Aisin/Equos have had over 60 engineers working on Torotrak toroidal IVT for at least 18 months and a Toyota Celsior has been at Torotrak's UK facilities recently - it was apparently fitted with IVT and on test. Note: the Toyota Celsior is not distributed in the UK.

    It is a strong possibility that the LS430 will appear with a toroidal IVT before long and the 2007 model is an attractive proposition for Torotrak followers.

    Should the Toroidal IVT get into volume production it is expected to be cost competitive and smaller than equivalent 6sp AT with significantly (12%+) better fuel economy, smoother and with better performance.
  • oacoac Posts: 1,594
    I'm still wondering if Car and Driver has it right with the LS460 debut as sping 2006. Do we really have a new LS in 9 months??

    Much as I am inclined to disagree with C&D on their 2007 LS release timeline, I am looking at the 2006 GS and 2006 IS releases as proof that this may indeed be the case.

    For the 2006 GS twins, Lexus disclosed the designs in the summer of 2004, and about 9 months later, it hit dealership floors in March of 2005. The 2006 IS design was first disclosed in January 2005, and is expected to hit dealership showrooms in October; also nine months after release. So why won't the LS go the same route ? Besides, it gives the competition less time to counter whatever Lexus does with this new car, and will fit in the plan for an 18-month refresh cycle (Mar '05 --> Sep '06) for the new GS with the swap of the GS430 for GS460 (and also for the GS300 --> GS350) by Fall of 2006 as MY2007 releases.

    That's what my tea leaves sayz.....
  • nissmannissman Posts: 8
    Do we really have a new LS in 9 months??

    I thought it was the GS 450H that was due out in 9 months. Thought I'd have a look for the specs and can't find any. Anyone?
  • mfprmfpr Posts: 41
    I believe the '07 ES350 is due to be released in the Spring of '06 and the '07 LS460 in the Fall.
  • mikegillermikegiller Posts: 602
    Keep in mind, those "specs" were released exactly 4 months ago, around the time of the showing of the car.
  • edspider1edspider1 Posts: 195
    You'll all say I'm nuts, but I'd like to see something like an LS 350H. Rather than the "power of a V12 in a V8", give me 350HP in a gas/hybrid. I would rather have a small V8 with Hybrid getting 40mpg rather than a 600HP getting 25mpg. It's not that I'm a penny pinching tree hugger. It's just that I like Lexus for comfort - not acceleration. I expect gas to be around $4/gallon during the 3 years of owning a 07 LS. I don't like the idea of spending an extra $2000 for gas over the 3 year lease just to go faster when there is an opening in traffic.
  • nissmannissman Posts: 8
    "pretty vague in some respects"

    Thanks syswei. I thought I'd check the tranny details to see if it was a 7-speed or a CVT, but it seems we know more about the LS600H than the GS450H. Strange in some ways.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    Nothing the size and weight of a Lexus LS can get 40mpg, not in the real world. The GS450h will use a 3.5L V6 and electic motors for "V8" power. I'd say best case scenario for that car would be 35mpg, only driving in the city and using a feather light touch on the gas pedal. Hybrids are not miracle workers.
  • oacoac Posts: 1,594
    Nothing truly wrong with that suggestion, except that it moves the LS further down market to the Bimmer 5/E350 level. This level is occupied by the GS twins, so the LS needs to remain up-market and even super-size the level a little. If the LS is to remain as the Lexus flagship car, then it needs to carry a torch to the very highest of the market, so as to pull up the others. The 2007 LS starts that upward migration. It is not to strange that indeed, we know more about the LS600H than we do about the GS450H.

    But on a more rhetorical point: Who needs a 450HP LS600H on freeways set to 70mph ? That's why I am leaning towards the base LS460 with 350HP. That should be plenty for me already. My current 290HP LS400 is equally plenty in acceleration and passing power.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    There's also a minimum amount of power and acceleration that buyers in this market are willing to accept in the full size lux class. For example, everyone is questioning MB for bringing back a V6 to the S class. Jaguar says they are working on a diesel XJ... that will need 8 seconds+ to hit 60mph. I just dont see anybody in America buying that. Not necessarily because its diesel, but because thats just too slow.
  • ideleidele Posts: 200
    From Nikkei news:
    "Toyota Motor Corp. (7203) plans to roll out next summer the top-end model of its Lexus brand, the LS, with a price tag of more than 10 million yen, The Nihon Keizai Shimbun learned Wednesday. "
    At the current exchange rate the top end model in dollars is $89285.
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