First Ting: My "Cristal" Ball shows the LS future!
I see.....8-speeds.
I see.....$65k and ......$77....no.....$79k for LS460 and LS500.
And I see a Fall 06 release!
And a Hybrid.......but....not....until Fall of 07
Just below $90k.
Now back to our regularly scheduled bull session.
Uh...I think Lexus will release the LS 6 months after Mercedes sends us this new and improved S-Class. And use their pricing to set their own.
Merc likes that, as he sees it as dependence on Mercedes to set the market.
Yes and no.
In Texas No Limit Hold 'Em, this would be a "Check on the River"
Lexus knows they have the winning hand, and we still have the River (Hybrid) to play with to pull more chips out of someone's (I wonder who's) stash.
I don't know what Mercedes plan is with S-Class pricing, but whatever it is, Lexus (especially the dealers/salesman) will play off that pricing to their advantage, while still making a much improved profit.
My guesstimate is the S500 will be slightly below the current car's price, leaving room for the S550 growth.
I think your crystal ball appears to be shiny and see-through these days An LS460 @ $65K, and an LS500 @ $79K seemed not that bad pricing. I'd hope the LS500 will come loaded, besides the higher output motor....
But what about the SWB/LWB trims ??? Would these be on the base 460 or solely meant for the hybrid 600h ?
The problems they've had were related to electronics, it's not as if their [MB's] cars break down on the freeway.
Actually they do. I have seen three brand new S class broken down by the side of the road waiting for emergency help in the last 6 months. One more on a flat bed. Never seen a single LS disabled like that. There are probably twice as many LS as S driving around in my neck of woods.
VX: The VX sport wagon, with three rows of seats, will be the RX's big brother. The VX will be developed on the GS vehicle platform and debut in early 2007 as a 2007 or 2008 model.
The Lexus LF-X concept shows the styling direction for the VX. Power is expected to come from a 4.3-liter V-8, although a 3.5-liter V-6 might also be offered. The VX would line up against the Infiniti FX.
JX: JX is the name given to Lexus' new body-on-frame SUV, arriving for the 2008 model year. One engine likely will be offered, a 5.4-liter V-8. The JX will share a rwd platform with the upcoming redesigned Tundra pickup. The JX will replace Lexus' LX SUV.
Still waiting for the interior of the car and the spec, we need to know what new tech lexus implemented in this queeny, we need to know how the interior rocks? Why is lexus DOING THIS TO US! enough of this teasing thing, we r out of patience, INTERIOR, TECH, ENGINE, TRANY, and all other,
one thing, i didnt like the bangle hump of the trunk, but its still look better than that hump of BM and MB.
Let's see - they fall to the bottom or near the bottom of consumer ratings in virtually every survey including their home market. Their profitability erodes completely and they are now a money loser. The $12mln profit they reported was operating income - there are a lot of hefty expenses between operating income and net income. They are being ripped in business and news mags mags everywhere. Every Wall Street journal cover story the past 4 years on them has been as negative as it gets. The resale values after 3 years are a fraction of what they used to be. The management team had to be replaced in several layers at the top and shaken up badly and now we have the start of major layoffs. How do you define the sky has fallen in? I'll put it differently - the only place they don't get press covering these huge problems is in the comfort of the auto mags. I wonder why.
This is not the place for this discussion anyway and it's fruitless. We clearly have different opinions on the health of MB. You think they are doing just fine. I couldn't possibly disagree with you more.
Rightly said ljifx. I couldn't believe when i read the paper a few weeks ago about Daimler's Benz division are cutting their workforce due to restructuring. All this time, I thought they've been seeing increased profits (besides Chrysler group). BTW, I know friends' Benz(2003 C and 1999 E-class) transmission and catalytic coverters fail in just 2-4 years. Now when I hear people say if you do buy a Benz, they say "you have to get lucky". Go figure.
Hi steve59, We're talking about the LS in this discussion. You are more than welcome to start a new topic about the rumored SC430.
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to some people, a Benz is a Benz. They don't care about how much better the Lexus or Infiniti is, they just want a Benz. That 3 pointed star on the hood seals the deal for them.
Those are the people Mercedes will be catering to. The traditional luxury car buyers that have bought Mercedes after Mercedes after Mercedes.
They don't care about J.D. Power rankings. To them, a Mercedes is the best car in the world.
Every other wealthy consumer will be charging into the local Lexus dealership....
The VX might be the replacement for our LX if we decide to wait that long. No mention of a hybrid version in the autoweek article, though. Maybe our friend from Japan can help with some info in that department.
I agree totally with you that there are those people who just want a MB no matter how unreliable the car is. But even some of those people are defecting. One of my friend whose brand new E class caught fire while he was driving it. Do you think he will buy another MB again? How about you, merc1?
What are you talking about? Show me a survey where MB is at or near the bottom? Look at this year's JD Power IQS, guess where MB is....6th....In Germany's CSI study, they were a few spots above average...same with France and rest of Europe....not at the top, but not at the bottom as you so hastily claim....APEAL, guess what, MB is right behind Lexus....So I ask, again, which study is MB at or near the bottom, please I would love to see that study? Oh, you must be referring to the VDS for 3 yr old vehicles, perhaps you are not aware that one vehicle is primarily responsible for that poor showing for MB.....the old pos M class....you shouldn't assume the S class is a pos b/c the M class was dragging the entire lineup in quality for the VDS study....
As for MB's profitability issues, are you not aware that Germany has the highest manufacturing labour costs in the world and their unions are even more hardheaded than the ones in the U.S.? Their cost structure is the one to blame, sales of MB vehicles worldwide are stable or slightly increasing...in the U.S., they are increasing much like everyone else...
As for car mags knocking down MB, which ones? They consistently rank the E class and S class as the leaders in their segment....
And don't worry so much about the current S class failing...it will do just fine as will the new LS....Dieter is a smart man, you can be sure he will only do great things at MB...BTW, have you not seen WSJ articles which have claimed the last 5 years that China's economy will overtake the U.S.?...and today it is still 1/11 the size of the U.S...news media loves negative stories....you seem too as well....
Not only was the HPX a beautiful concept but it was getting so much attention at the NY auto show. Could it be that they just don't think there is a big enough market? Could be they think it'll just cannibalize their own suv's rather than take market share from someone else. Personally I think it will be a big winner if they bring it out.
Haha, you are fos...Caught fire, how, when, where? A car doesn't just catch fire buddy....Not usually anyway, I am a little suspicious of your story....And if it did, he should be making a ton of cash in a lawsuit at the expense of MB...
You think they are doing just fine. I couldn't possibly disagree with you more.
Well no I don't and I think know this. I know they have problems, but you put them on a death bed like they're Isuzu or somebody. It gets so hyped up to the point where it becomes silly. What you fail to realize is that for some there is more to cars that what the WSJ has to say about corporate matters, things the average consumer could care less about. The WSJ is not an automotive source, only a corporate one. The average buyer don't care squat about earnings all the other irrelevant stuff you seem to worship. Ditto for the surveys and their followers. If this was the case about surveys and corporate matters being such a big priority for buyers, MB along with every other company that has had negative press in the last few years wouldn't be able to sell their products. You act like everyone hwho buys a car walks around with a copy of CR or JDP reports in their back pockets, and obviously for VW, Land Rover, Audi, Mercedes, and others this isn't the case. Who the hell cares about changes in the management structure of a company when they go to buy a car? All pointless, irrelevent bs at this point my friend and its way past tired. The people that care about such things have stayed away from MB, and every other afflicted European brand for years, and guess what those same brands are still doing business, while they get their ships in order. Nobody cares about this irrelevant stuff to such a level but Toyota fanatics. It helps smooth over the times when there is nothing else to talk about because of the boring products they field, which in T/L defense seems to be changing, finally. It also totally ignores the things MB and others manage to do right, yeah I know that isn't anything per you. You're right this is the wrong board, so this will be my last post on this subject, here.
Maybe they were out of gas....Brand new cars, no matter who makes them, do not just break down on the side of the road...The reason you see more LS's in your neck of the woods is b/c they sell more of them in the U.S. then S class...guess why? price difference, an S430 is 20k more than an LS...do you not see a lot more Focuses than LS ans S class combined?
I am a little suspicious of your story....And if it did, he should be making a ton of cash in a lawsuit at the expense of MB...
No use debating that type of story because not one shread of it can be verified. Everyone has a co-worker, uncle, brother, father, mother, neighbor, friend, wife, husband, church member, etc. etc. etc. that had this and that happen to a Benz.
Let's pay attention to the discussion title, please - further posts that aren't related to the LS will be removed.
EDIT: Folks, for the longevity of your posts, PLEASE pay attention to notes from the host. Thanks.
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Anyway, getting back to the LS.....I'm a bit confused as to why there would be a 4.6L and a 5.0L along with the LS600h....Lexus is not known for offering "3" different engine variants....I'm not sure why you would have two V8s so close in displacement....of course the hp and torque will be higher....is the 5.0L for the LWB?
Yes you are correct, it's not reliability based. However it is a form of measuring how the customer perceives the vehicle to be....intuitive quality perception...
This picture which I'm sure has been seen by all, seems like it could be a very close representation of what the production version of the LS would look like....The bumper, foglights, and hood bulge along the sides, all match the concept version shown in Tokyo.
It is so great to finally see some enthusiasm, passion, sport, and modern style injected to cars that are already of the best quality in the world. Where can you go wrong?
There are some great things going for Lexus at the time, and the new LS is definitely one of them. It will be the day when we see the LF-A finally hitting the road. Judging by the sound of the exhaust note, that will be one mean car. The note is so throaty, it sounds intimidating!
My thoughts are that there will be LS 460, LS 500 LWB and SWB, and LS 600 h LWB and SWB. AWD will be standard on the LS 600 h. The 4.6 L engine will be mated to the electric motors to create 6.0 L power. Hmm, that makes for 5 different models; it is a possibility.
This is what I am hoping for. I want to see an LS450h AWD. I don't at all care to have a "gazzillion" horsepower that goes from zero to 60 in "3 seconds". I would be more than happy to have a smaller engine that gets terrific gas mileage with the very latest technogical marvels. My current 2004 LS430 has enough acceleration for my taste. I imagine a hybrid LS450h would be even faster from zero to 60. In today's world with energy prices sky-rocketing and concerns for the environment, a vehicle of this type would sell like hotcakes in my opinion. Kiyonaga, if you read this post please respond. Thank you in advance.
I would probably buy the same, but it depends on the price points too. I definitely want AWD (and that's why I don't own an LS now). A 450h should perform similarly to a 460, which is enough for me. I wouldn't even need LWB if it isn't offered on a 450h (the kids are only 5 and 8), though if offered and if the price differential were small I'd go that way.
I agree. There should be an entry level hybrid that has the power of an LS 460 with the mileage of a GS 300... that would be appealing.
You can't have a million different models, though. If you want a powerful hybrid with a little less size than the LS, but with all the technological marvels of the LS minus some, then there is the GS 450h.
We'll see what the specs of the 4.6 come out to be, ie. gas mileage, power, torque, etc.
Personally, given the LS's huge success already, and its following, there would be a market for LS 450h AWD, LS 460, LS 500 (V10) lwb/swb, and LS 600h AWD lwb/swb. I think the market would eat up all of these variations given the new image of the LS.
AWD could be on ALL models, or on any two of the three....
BTW, it will make sense for the LS to have more than one engine to meet BMW and MB. Adding a hybrid simply creates another level neither of its competition can play in, and hence more market share.... Isn't that what a great, profitable company should be doing ? Creating and exploring new markets and growing market share and increasing shareholder value... But these are foreign ideas to some MB die-hard fanatics, eh ? While Toy/Lexus are rolling ahead with implementing a global Lexus product strategy, others are laying off, re-structuring, or re-branding with tweaks of their top line cars.... What a difference 16 years make, eh ???
Is the GS450h as quiet and comfortable as the LS? Luxury, comfort, fuel efficiency, and useful "gadgetry" (high tech) are important to me. But there comes a point of "enough is enough" as far as power is concerned. By the way, I probably should have called it an LS460h instead of LS450h. My point is that Lexus should offer the hybrid with the smaller engine. I don't care what they call it.
My earlier post is what I would do if there was a line-up that Lexus would choose, however my most recent is what I would do if it were up to me, creating a "no compromise" line-up.
There may be a stigma that there should be no V6 in a flagship car that may negate the halo image created by the LS 600h AWD.
My personal opinion is that we aren't going to see a V10 in the LS, at least not soon. I think a V10 would be reserved for a super-sedan, maybe not even branded Lexus. Kiyonaga-san?
The V10 has already been created... and its going into the LF-A. In fact, it already is in the LF-A at Tokyo. Given this, since it has been produced, albeit maybe just one or a limited quantity, it could very well go into an LS since the technology is there to do it.
Well according to autoweek the LF-A is a MY 2008 car. At a 100k pricepoint I would think Lexus would want to differentiate it a bit...and making it initially at least the only V10 in the lineup would help do that.
Anyway time will tell. Personally I don't see my self buying any type of V10.
"I think a V10 would be reserved for a super-sedan"
Or you get a V10 or V12 hybrid in a super sedan. The LS 500, if it is really to be, has to have a distinguishing power difference from an LS600H since Lexus is tuning the hybrids to power. A gas car vs. a hybrid car that has nearly the same power doesn't make sense. My feeling is the LS500, if it's there, may simply be the LWB version of the LS460. Tweak the power up for the LWB car and distinguish it in name from the 460. Over time they'll make the LS500 be the more mainstream car and the LS460 becomes more of a lower priced SWB car with just a few options abvailable. I think the LS600H will be purely a LWB car. That would make more sense to me rather than three engine variants with two of them having similar power. My guess is that Lexus hasn't decided yet on a super LS with say 550 or 600HP vs. an entirely different super sedan.
My personal opinion is that we aren't going to see a V10 in the LS, at least not soon. I think a V10 would be reserved for a super-sedan, maybe not even branded Lexus.
True. Maybe the new version of the Century ? But since we are speculating, then its fair to assume an LS with a 400+HP 5L motor of whatever # of cylinders (8 or 10). Loved the exhaust note of the V-10 LF-A. That is one throaty symphony music to my ears....
A V-6 in an LS...even in a gab of a hybrid motor... Not gonna happen !!! Think HIGHER class status for the LS... no RL wanna-be here for Lexus. Gotta put out your best and leave the V6 to the IS/GS lines. Even with a V6, Lexus could squeeze out 300+HP from a 3.5L motor. That is sweet.... Imagine what they can get out of a 4.6L V8 ???
Well I actually disagree. The hp you see in the IS350 is for a sport sedan...the engine has been tuned toward the sporting end (and also imho for marketing purposes, giving up some torque in order to get the hp over 300). With the LS460 I don't think you can extrapolate from the IS350's hp, because the LS will be tuned more toward luxury, smoothness, quietness.
As usual, a very concise and reasonable prediction. A bored-out version of the 4.6L could be the 5L version.... Would make sense...
The 4.6L should be close to 350HP in output.... close to the S450/750i The 5.0L should be tuned to 380+HP close to the S500 The 600h could be 350 + 55 = 405HP
Comments
I see.....8-speeds.
I see.....$65k and ......$77....no.....$79k for LS460 and LS500.
And I see a Fall 06 release!
And a Hybrid.......but....not....until Fall of 07
Just below $90k.
Now back to our regularly scheduled bull session.
Uh...I think Lexus will release the LS 6 months after Mercedes sends us this new and improved
Merc likes that, as he sees it as dependence on Mercedes to set the market.
Yes and no.
In Texas No Limit Hold 'Em, this would be a "Check on the River"
Lexus knows they have the winning hand, and we still have the River (Hybrid) to play with to pull more chips out of someone's (I wonder who's) stash.
I don't know what Mercedes plan is with S-Class pricing, but whatever it is, Lexus (especially the dealers/salesman) will play off that pricing to their advantage, while still making a much improved profit.
My guesstimate is the S500 will be slightly below the current car's price, leaving room for the S550 growth.
DrFill
M
But what about the SWB/LWB trims ??? Would these be on the base 460 or solely meant for the hybrid 600h ?
Actually they do. I have seen three brand new S class broken down by the side of the road waiting for emergency help in the last 6 months. One more on a flat bed. Never seen a single LS disabled like that. There are probably twice as many LS as S driving around in my neck of woods.
VX: The VX sport wagon, with three rows of seats, will be the RX's big brother. The VX will be developed on the GS vehicle platform and debut in early 2007 as a 2007 or 2008 model.
The Lexus LF-X concept shows the styling direction for the VX. Power is expected to come from a 4.3-liter V-8, although a 3.5-liter V-6 might also be offered. The VX would line up against the Infiniti FX.
JX: JX is the name given to Lexus' new body-on-frame SUV, arriving for the 2008 model year. One engine likely will be offered, a 5.4-liter V-8. The JX will share a rwd platform with the upcoming redesigned Tundra pickup. The JX will replace Lexus' LX SUV.
Any comments would be appreciated.
The full article is here: http://www.autoweek.com/news.cms?newsId=102996
Many thanks
Steve59
tennsurfr@aol.com
one thing, i didnt like the bangle hump of the trunk, but its still look better than that hump of BM and MB.
I LOVE IT, GORGOUS
Lexusi
This is not the place for this discussion anyway and it's fruitless. We clearly have different opinions on the health of MB. You think they are doing just fine. I couldn't possibly disagree with you more.
BTW, I know friends' Benz(2003 C and 1999 E-class) transmission and catalytic coverters fail in just 2-4 years. Now when I hear people say if you do buy a Benz, they say "you have to get lucky". Go figure.
We're talking about the LS in this discussion. You are more than welcome to start a new topic about the rumored SC430.
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Those are the people Mercedes will be catering to. The traditional luxury car buyers that have bought Mercedes after Mercedes after Mercedes.
They don't care about J.D. Power rankings. To them, a Mercedes is the best car in the world.
Every other wealthy consumer will be charging into the local Lexus dealership....
I don't know why the "VX" is still two years away.
Toyota made the Sienna in 19 months, and the RX in a little over two years.
The LF-X concept is two years old. What gives?
That concept was a winner from the first time I saw it in NY.
DrFill
As for MB's profitability issues, are you not aware that Germany has the highest manufacturing labour costs in the world and their unions are even more hardheaded than the ones in the U.S.? Their cost structure is the one to blame, sales of MB vehicles worldwide are stable or slightly increasing...in the U.S., they are increasing much like everyone else...
As for car mags knocking down MB, which ones? They consistently rank the E class and S class as the leaders in their segment....
And don't worry so much about the current S class failing...it will do just fine as will the new LS....Dieter is a smart man, you can be sure he will only do great things at MB...BTW, have you not seen WSJ articles which have claimed the last 5 years that China's economy will overtake the U.S.?...and today it is still 1/11 the size of the U.S...news media loves negative stories....you seem too as well....
Well no I don't and I think know this. I know they have problems, but you put them on a death bed like they're Isuzu or somebody. It gets so hyped up to the point where it becomes silly. What you fail to realize is that for some there is more to cars that what the WSJ has to say about corporate matters, things the average consumer could care less about. The WSJ is not an automotive source, only a corporate one. The average buyer don't care squat about earnings all the other irrelevant stuff you seem to worship. Ditto for the surveys and their followers. If this was the case about surveys and corporate matters being such a big priority for buyers, MB along with every other company that has had negative press in the last few years wouldn't be able to sell their products. You act like everyone hwho buys a car walks around with a copy of CR or JDP reports in their back pockets, and obviously for VW, Land Rover, Audi, Mercedes, and others this isn't the case. Who the hell cares about changes in the management structure of a company when they go to buy a car? All pointless, irrelevent bs at this point my friend and its way past tired. The people that care about such things have stayed away from MB, and every other afflicted European brand for years, and guess what those same brands are still doing business, while they get their ships in order. Nobody cares about this irrelevant stuff to such a level but Toyota fanatics. It helps smooth over the times when there is nothing else to talk about because of the boring products they field, which in T/L defense seems to be changing, finally. It also totally ignores the things MB and others manage to do right, yeah I know that isn't anything per you. You're right this is the wrong board, so this will be my last post on this subject, here.
M
No use debating that type of story because not one shread of it can be verified. Everyone has a co-worker, uncle, brother, father, mother, neighbor, friend, wife, husband, church member, etc. etc. etc. that had this and that happen to a Benz.
M
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http://www.clublexus.com/forums/showthread.php?t=183756
http://www.jdpower.com/cc/auto/ratings/vehicles/FindJdAwards.jsp
It is so great to finally see some enthusiasm, passion, sport, and modern style injected to cars that are already of the best quality in the world. Where can you go wrong?
There are some great things going for Lexus at the time, and the new LS is definitely one of them. It will be the day when we see the LF-A finally hitting the road. Judging by the sound of the exhaust note, that will be one mean car. The note is so throaty, it sounds intimidating!
My thoughts are that there will be LS 460, LS 500 LWB and SWB, and LS 600 h LWB and SWB. AWD will be standard on the LS 600 h. The 4.6 L engine will be mated to the electric motors to create 6.0 L power. Hmm, that makes for 5 different models; it is a possibility.
What do you all think?
460 swb, lwb
600h lwb
possibly 450h swb,lwb
AWD only with hybrid
You can't have a million different models, though. If you want a powerful hybrid with a little less size than the LS, but with all the technological marvels of the LS minus some, then there is the GS 450h.
We'll see what the specs of the 4.6 come out to be, ie. gas mileage, power, torque, etc.
Personally, given the LS's huge success already, and its following, there would be a market for LS 450h AWD, LS 460, LS 500 (V10) lwb/swb, and LS 600h AWD lwb/swb. I think the market would eat up all of these variations given the new image of the LS.
Now for the pictures of the interior!
Rather, Mike's post is far more like what Lexus would do:
LS460 V8
LS500 V10 LWB/SWB
LS600h V8 + electric battery (LWB/SWB)
AWD could be on ALL models, or on any two of the three....
BTW, it will make sense for the LS to have more than one engine to meet BMW and MB. Adding a hybrid simply creates another level neither of its competition can play in, and hence more market share.... Isn't that what a great, profitable company should be doing ? Creating and exploring new markets and growing market share and increasing shareholder value... But these are foreign ideas to some MB die-hard fanatics, eh ? While Toy/Lexus are rolling ahead with implementing a global Lexus product strategy, others are laying off, re-structuring, or re-branding with tweaks of their top line cars.... What a difference 16 years make, eh ???
My earlier post is what I would do if there was a line-up that Lexus would choose, however my most recent is what I would do if it were up to me, creating a "no compromise" line-up.
There may be a stigma that there should be no V6 in a flagship car that may negate the halo image created by the LS 600h AWD.
Anyway time will tell. Personally I don't see my self buying any type of V10.
Or you get a V10 or V12 hybrid in a super sedan. The LS 500, if it is really to be, has to have a distinguishing power difference from an LS600H since Lexus is tuning the hybrids to power. A gas car vs. a hybrid car that has nearly the same power doesn't make sense. My feeling is the LS500, if it's there, may simply be the LWB version of the LS460. Tweak the power up for the LWB car and distinguish it in name from the 460. Over time they'll make the LS500 be the more mainstream car and the LS460 becomes more of a lower priced SWB car with just a few options abvailable. I think the LS600H will be purely a LWB car. That would make more sense to me rather than three engine variants with two of them having similar power. My guess is that Lexus hasn't decided yet on a super LS with say 550 or 600HP vs. an entirely different super sedan.
True. Maybe the new version of the Century ? But since we are speculating, then its fair to assume an LS with a 400+HP 5L motor of whatever # of cylinders (8 or 10). Loved the exhaust note of the V-10 LF-A. That is one throaty symphony music to my ears....
A V-6 in an LS...even in a gab of a hybrid motor... Not gonna happen !!! Think HIGHER class status for the LS... no RL wanna-be here for Lexus. Gotta put out your best and leave the V6 to the IS/GS lines. Even with a V6, Lexus could squeeze out 300+HP from a 3.5L motor. That is sweet.... Imagine what they can get out of a 4.6L V8 ???
Any information? we are waiting for something, plz share if u have anything.
Arigato Kiyonaga-san
Lexus
300/3.5L= 85.71 HP/L
Taking that 85.71 HP/L and convert that to 4.6 L we get:
394 HP.
Let's be modest and say, like, at least 380 HP.
I am thinking, though, that the technology implemented in the new V8 4.6 L would be a tad more progressive than the 3.5 L.
This is going to be one powerful V8.
The 4.6L should be close to 350HP in output.... close to the S450/750i
The 5.0L should be tuned to 380+HP close to the S500
The 600h could be 350 + 55 = 405HP
Just my speculations....
Im new here. Just wanted to find out if anyone noticed a VW Phaeton similarity with the headlights?
But as a whole, the LF-Sh is a damn fine car!!
Hence why we'll never see a LS350, whereas Mercedes doesn't care and goes ahead to offer an S350 anyways.