Lexus LS 460/LS 460L Styling Impressions

ljflx

Link is not working but I did find the post and the letter.

I'll give it a try here:

Letter post:

http://www.clublexus.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=87958

Forum post:

http://www.clublexus.com/forums/showthread.php?t=226509

If these prices are right then Lexus has blown past Audi and BMW in price and maybe the S450 if we ever see it and is not far behind an MB S550 as a comparable S550 is around $102-103K vs that $94K price. Two things that concern me and may indicate that this price may be right is that my dealer has told me demand for this car is unprecedented and much greater than 2001 and the other is that Lexus has come way up in prestige since 2001. As well Lexus needed to ramp up production for this car two months earlier than planned. So something is going on that may be different than original planning and late customer research and planning may allow prices to be 5-10% higher (say 75-76K for the SWB ultra vs $73K and $83-86K for common LS460L configs vs $76-77K. We'll see but if that letter is accurate, and given it's tone re deposits and decisions, than neither the dealer nor Lexus have any concerns about moving this car real quick. My instinct is that regardless of price Lexus will underestimate the demand for the LWB model and that model will have excellent price retention.

At these prices I'm a buyer of an $83-86K LS460L. I was ready to do the 600HL in the low 90's but obviously (assuming this letter is real) than the hybrid will only come in one config and be a $110-115K car.

ljflx

Looking at that letter closer is confusing. For example it references the LS600HL in the intro part but then goes silent on it the rest of the way. Could it be that the $94K is tied in to the 600HL and not the 460L?? Note that it says the ultra version of the LWB model is $94K. It doesn't say this car is the LS460L. It could well be that the $94K car is the 600HL and not the LS460L. Further the 600HLis the ultimate LWB model not the 460L. IMO the letter should not even note the 600Hl as it is a 2008 model. Conclusion - the letter is rather unprofessional, misleading and confusing because it doesn't reference models and instead references terms like base, top of the line and ultimate. That's a poorly written letter in all honesty and may or may not be authentic. If others can open the link than it will be interesting to get your perspective. Naturally a call to my dealer will be made tomorrow.

landi

I have reviewed the letter and the table that outlines the options for the 460 and 460L. I also find it unprofessional and confusing. However, the reference to 600 is only for the brochure. I definitely think the writer of the letter has made mistakes in his calculations. Perhaps he has added the price of overlapping options. For example, the LL and LP packages have overlap in equipment. IMO, the prices for the SWB are off between $5K-$10K and the LWB by $10K-$15K. I have come up with these estimates based on the existing Ultra pricing at about $72K. The $76K “fully loaded” SWB lacks pre-collision, Air Suspension, and Dynamic CC. So the SWB could actually approach $80K. I hope that I am correct on the pricing because I will not pay $94K for top of the line L. I would for the 600. With these prices you can be sure that I will be shopping at other dealers such as MB and Audi. Earlier today, I called and left a message to my dealer regarding this information on the internet but did not hear back from him. BTW, it would be nice to have someone scan the standard and optional equipment list from the brochure that they received.

oac

I have read the letter over and over, and here is my take on it.

Its a letter from a dealer to a prospective buyer. It won't be too far-fetched that the dealer may have his own uplifts in the prices cos these prices are not real, IMO. The tone of the letter lacks the air of professionalism behoven from a GM of a Lexus shop. Suffice to say that this letter is a second-hand info and NOT from Lexus Corporate. I'd wait to see something truly OFFICIAL from Lexus before I bark up this tree...

Finally, the so-called "ultimate or grand daddy LWB" is the 460L with the rear seat ottoman option, and not the 600hL.

In Japan, CarMag projects the 600hL to be Y12million, which converts to ca. $100,000 USD. This is for the Japan market... If the "ultimate 460L" is at $94K, then a 600hL would be another $10K uplift easy... putting it at mid-100K level. Granted this is at the top of S550 price, but still a $15K premium discount on an S600. BUT is the 600hL an S600 competitor or an S550 competitor ? I am not so sure, if these prices are to be true.

Now, a 460L base at $67K would be a 12K premium over the 2006 LS430. Is that a reflection of Lexus' new prestige in the US market ?

Holy smokes !!!! I may be priced out of a 2007 LS460 w/Nav/DVD/storage which would be at $72K if these prices are correct (a far-cry from my $63K expectation). That would really suck.... Maybe I'll just get a Bimmer 550i instead, keep my '99 LS400 and '03 LX470, and be done with that if Lexus won't play.... At least I will have 4 years of cost-free maintainance from BMW ! As you can guess, I am not happy at all if I have to buy a BMW bcos Lexus feels they are now at MB level in price. Whatever happened to 119 yr heritage of MB v 17 for Lexus ??? :sick: :sick:

oac

Why are we all so worked up about this letter ? This is NOT a letter from Lexus CORPORATE... Looks to me like dealership rumor mill prices this guy got from another guy, and been passed round to get reaction from prospective buyers. Besides, since when does Lexus give out prices 2+ months in advance of a car release ? And even more wierd, by how much premium did the '06GS twins go over their '05 (old-body) replacements ? Not $12K premium in base price...

I am going to take this letter with a heavy dose of skepticism. Of course, I'll be checking with my local Lexus dealer Wednesday to see what I find out. I am on the list for a 460. If these prices check out, I may just have to withdraw my deposit and move to my nearest Bimmer shop for a look-see at that 550i.

syswei

If this letter is accurate, which I think is actually possible, there is still room for the LS600hL to come in under 100k, without the rear-seat package. If the base 460L is 86k, then if the base 600hL has equivalent equipment, except for the hybrid, extra 0.4 liters, 19-inch wheels, and differentiated headlights, a reasonable expectation would be 94-98k base, imho. More than that, of course, for the special order 4-seater.

ljflx

"Now, a 460L base at $67K would be a 12K premium over the 2006 LS430. Is that a reflection of Lexus' new prestige in the US market? "

OAC - you're not comparing apples to apples here. The 460 will have added standard equipment that were options or non-existant before. I'd say that $67K price you noted is probably comparable to a $63-64K LS430 plus it gets the power boost, 8 speed tranny and other things that LS430 never had. I do like landi's post and think that the author of the letter doubled up on options in his computations. At the same time I was also thinking the same thing that Sywwei was thinking in his post. But regardless of all this price stuff the thing that is key is that this car is generating a lot of interest and demand so I expect prices to stay high and if thee is a lack of LWB models than those cars may price over sticker.

designman

If these prices check out, I may just have to withdraw my deposit and move to my nearest Bimmer shop for a look-see at that 550i.

Why don't you just take a new LS430 at a nice discount? That would be quite a price difference!

oac

No way... With 8-cogs, 380HP, and all that styling pizzazz, why take an LS430 that's not even close. Or are you scared to see a Lexophile in a Bimmer ?

BTW, I checked with my dealer today, here is what he tells me:

They have not gotten much from Lexus corporate on this car as of now. They have NO options list from Corporate either.... They have "heard" Lexus mention prices in form of a range but NOTHING confirmed. He said Lexus would NOT abandon its pricing discount to MB/BMW/Audi... (comforting I assume). However, he told me the prices he heard were:

Mid-60K to mid-70K for the SWB trim
Mid-70K to mid-80K for the 460L
Mid-90K for the L with the rear seat package ()
Looks like "base" 460L = 430 UL +++, essentially a $3-4K price uplift for the 2006 LS430UL to get same on a 2007 LS460L *base*
ZERO info on 600hL, except Lexus will build it !!! (duh...)

The car gets here OCTOBER, and not earlier....

I am still not that thrilled, but I'd wait until we hear some confirmation from Lexus Corporate. So far, NOTHING has been written down and submitted to any Lexus dealer, so I am inclined to believe that this Georgia dealership is simply putting the bits of info they "heard" into a fimed-up looking letter. These are certainly NOT the final prices from what I gathered.....

designman

No way... With 8-cogs, 380HP, and all that styling pizzazz, why take an LS430 that's not even close. Or are you scared to see a Lexophile in a Bimmer ?

Well, I know you are really looking forward to the new LS but since it could be over your budget I thought I would throw out what appeared to be an efficient, fitting alternative.

Scared? No, surprised. Heck, I guess you liked the BMW 550 better than the LS430 all along. Wait until they hear about this in the HELMs thread. But don’t worry, my lips are sealed, I won’t be the one to tell.

Of course I would welcome you into the BMW fold. I'd rather see you get what you really want and be totally happy though.

oac

Of course I would welcome you into the BMW fold. I'd rather see you get what you really want and be totally happy though.

Thanks, I do appreciate that very much...

I agree. I would have to get creative with my finances but I think I can still swing it, only it may not be the price I really... really... would like to pay. OTOH, maybe I'd stick to my current LS (its long in the tooth already at 7+ yrs old) and wait the 460 out awhile.... Maybe in 6 months things cool down somewhat from the feeding frenzy over this new LS, and one can order one as you want it without the junk the dealer/Lexus may want to throw on it, at a price I'd feel comfortable paying. I don't lease, I am a buyer that's my problem....

nexuslexus

Thank you for visiting our website and requesting additional information about one of our fine Lexus vehicles. The vehicle you inquired about, our all new LS 600, will be available next spring. The anticipated price range should be in the mid-$80's fully loaded.

Clearly, the fully loaded part is off base, but then again everyone has a different definition of fully loaded. I am hopeful he is correct, because I will not purchase the car for more than 99,000.

pearl

No matter what has happened to Lexus prestige, I find it difficult to believe the purported dealer letter putting a decently equipped SWB LS (non UL) in the mid 70K range. The reported "unprecedented demand" is almost certainly due to anticipation on the part of prospective buyers that the new LS will not be priced 10-15K north of comparable 06 models. Lexus would be crazy to do this, too, since it would definitely price out some prospective buyers and send others off to the competition. I can imagine a price increase of 5K or so over the 06 (SWB), but much more than that and Lexus will lose more customers than its worth.

ljflx

I believe that letter implied a SWB ultra would be in the mid 70's. The SWB ultra is $72K right now so a $76K SWB ultra in the 2007 model is hardly out of line and should be fully expected. But I think it'll be hard to come by and may be a custom order as that is where the LWB model probably starts in price.

ljflx

According to my dealer there is nothing out yet on price. I received the brochure that was posted in that link at Club Lexus about 5 or 6 weeks ago, maybe even earlier than that.

123itsdee

i dont want to change the subject but whats up with the mirrors on the Ls?? theres no blinkers on them?? i love lexus alot and im just sayin i would like to have blinkers on the mirrors. :confuse: but other than that the ls is a instant BUY for me tho

oac

According to Edmunds, rumor has it that the new LS460 would be the first Lexus with ability to turn OFF the electronic nannies... Won't that just be a hoot !!! The largest sedan in the flock given the sportiest feature to run around.... If the LS gets one, all Lexus(es) must get one as well. That should be real swell...

OTOH, I read the stats on the 600hL again, and I am amazed at what this car will bring to the table next year. Simply awesome combination of power, speed, performance, features, handling, refinement, luxury and novelty.... body-sensing temp control, 19-speakers ML, 4,000-song HD, LED Hi/Lo beams, APCS, Park-Assist, etc.. etc... many of which are WORLD FIRSTS !!!!!

drfill

The IS is already on tap to had a VDIM-off switch for 2007.

So Lexus does listen. The press really didn't feel it.

DrFill

atlas7

I am confused, I was under the impression that most of the volume sold would be the SWB 460. Why special order, or am I off the mark here? That's what I want, fully loaded, maxed out SWB.

ljflx

Just my opinion that most folks would rather have a LWB car at $75K than a SWB ultra at $76K or $77K. The more for your money rule applies. Thus I have a hard time seeing Lexus sending over ultras that prog over the price of a LWB starter particularly given the LWB car will be just short of a SWB ultra on equipment. The LWB car will be the better riding car and the more luxurious car as well. IF I'm a dealer I don't want that situation on my hands thus I think the SWB will ship almost entirely in mid level trim and if you want the ultra you'll have to order it as they will be few and far between in dealer inventory. I could be wrong but I'm sure 8 or 9 of 10 posters on this board would take a $76K base LWB car over a $76K SWB ultra. The first gives you a tad less equipmentment but a better ride, a higher lux car and most certainly a better future resale value.

atlas7

Well, I suppose we will just have to wait and see. As far as a "better ride", I would bet you that there is no noticeable difference between the SWB and LWB.

ljflx

THe LWB car gives you a better foundation and should provide the better ride feel.

atlas7

Hey come on, blindfold you and put you in the passenger seat, take a spin in both vehicles and you won't be able to tell the difference.

designman

If the cars’ track width is the same, the LWB car will have better directional stability; the SWB car will have more responsive, nimbler steering. If you can’t tell the difference and additional room is not important to you, then the less-expensive car is the one for you.

In a “blind” ride test I’d be able to know the difference 100 out of 100 times and I’d bet you would too once you became familiar with the ride. Actually you can do this. Go test the 750s or A8s or just wait for the new LSs. There's no need for a blindfold. Just make sure you don’t look at the cars before you get in and try not to sneak a peek at the rear seat.

There is a difference.

123itsdee

">personally you will feel a difference if you are really into the technical appliances but if you dont really know what to expect from the experience you will not really get a grip on the differences. but common since will tell you that the Lwb will ride smoother because of the fact that theres more space in between bumps and ditches. there wont be a huge difference but there will be one.

atlas7

My point exactly, yeah there may be an extremely small difference, but how many people can REALLY tell the difference? After all, the LEXUS SWB will have an unbelievably smooth ride to begin with, so I suspect the margin of difference will be sooooo small that most people won't notice. I will do the test myself when the cars come out in the fall.

dougmck

Thankfully Lexus has a LS 600 on the way. I am ready to give up on my S 550 back.

123itsdee

you will be very happy and joyful after you make that exchange because you will be in one of the best cars ever biult man. i have order out for the ls460l with the crome package so i will be very happy too :shades: so have fun with your ls6 when it hits showrooms.im 100% behind that decision.

oac

Thankfully Lexus has a LS 600 on the way. I am ready to give up on my S 550 back.

Just out of curiousity, why are you ready to give up your new S550 so soon ? Many of us would be interested to hear your experiences of the W221...if you'd want to share, of course...

123itsdee

thats a good question i never thought of that one

vantage2

I was at my Lexus Dealership (JM Lexus) today test driving the GS450h (great car) when Mr. Jim Moran walked in the dealership to talk to the dealership manager that I was with about inventory. In his hands there were ads for the new LS460, different pictures, banner prototypes etc… In the stack he was holding, I managed to snag a look at a NEW LS460 brochure, not the same one everyone here has seen, probably the one that will be at the dealerships when the LS460's arrive. Anyways below the LS460 picture it said “Introducing the new LS460”, and in small print it said “staring at $60,596.” Just so everyone knows JM Lexus is the biggest and most powerful Lexus dealership in the world, and Mr. Moran is the owner of the dealership and the biggest investor in TM Corporation. He apparently has very close ties with Lexus and this is probably why he has these LS460 launch materials. We finally have a valid LS460 base price!

Vantage 2

oac

Anyways below the LS460 picture it said “Introducing the new LS460”, and in small print it said “staring at $60,596.”

You have to be bestowed the award of the "Greatest Lexus Pricing Scoop, ever" !!!!! Great find indeed !

Starting at $60,596 is the best news so far.... So we surely can see a 600hL in the low low-90s.. Imagine a 600hL with a $10K price discount on an S550, not to mention an S600 ???? That would put a HUGE dent in the S-class sales for MB, and a scramble for cover by the competition. If Lexus pulls it off, it will resemble 1989 all over again ! Now that mid-60K lightly loaded (ML/Nav) LS460 SWB looks so real now.

vantage2

Thanks. Lucky on my part.

Vantage 2

nexuslexus

Excellent news.

Did you happen to question either one of them on the Lexus LS460/600?

Thanks again.

vantage2

Unfortunately not, Mr. Moran left promptly and wouldn’t want to question him on private information. Honestly, if I asked the dealership manager he probably wouldn’t know anything himself. I’ll ask the manager next week when I go in for service, he might know something by than from Mr. Moran.

Vantage 2

ljflx

Well if that's the starting price it means our price specs are right on. Most SWB cars will be $65-67K, most LWB cars will be $74-76K and you deal at $80-82K for a loaded LWB car and $85-100K for the 600HL depending on options. I hope they have a production spec of at least 4,000+ cars a month.

123itsdee

im just really excited about the whole thing and i cant wait until i see one on the road! i kno it will be drop dead beautiful. Im going to my lexus dealer and see if i can get more news because im close friends with a few of them. HEY I CAN PROBABLY GET A DISCOUNT ON A LWB!! ha not hardly :P

atlas7

This is great news, but I question your $85 - $100k for the 600hl, seems this war will be loaded, few options, less variance in the price stated.

nvbanker

"Through these forums, I think that at times I know more about what to expect from Lexus than does my dealer."

Maybe not the owner or Dealer Principal, but 90% of the salespeople you undoubtedly know more than... IME, some salespeople don't know the product very well at all, and I'm always uncomfortable buying from someone who is trying to bluff me.

For example, when shopping for my LS-430, one sales person told me that all Lexus models were FWD! When I tried to correct him about the LS, he then said, "Well, this is the only model that is RWD, and they just started making it that way". Didn't buy from him.

nexuslexus

I agree- some salespeople know nothing about their products. One local dealer's salesperson didn't know anything about the LS460, and kept trying to sell me the 430.

cyclone4

This is definitely breaking news (and great news). There has been so little activity here the past couple months that I have only been taking a look at this board maybe once a week. If this is the starting point for the LS460, then I cannot imagine the LS600h will be much more than the low 90's K. I guess we will have a good idea about the price of the LS600h once we find out the price for the LS460 LWB in a few more weeks. The whole world is anxiously waiting. April of 2007 can't get here soon enough.

syswei

Thanks for the info!

nexuslexus

I think we are spot on with the LS600h being in the 80's to the 90's.

In Road and Track today I saw that Lexus is considering a super sedan called the L 650h, which will cost $150,000+. It seems to me that this is the S600/760Li/A8 W-12 beater, and that the LS600hl will be a more widely produced vehicle, just slightly more than the LS460l, much like the GS450h is only slightly more than the 430 (although more of a difference here, maybe 5-10 thousand over the 460l).

atlas7

Question, what is the chrome package and is it available on the SWB and LWB?

syswei

http://tasteoflexus.com/

Kirstie_H

and come visit us for tonight's Lexus Hybrid Chat! 6-7pm PT - 9-10pm ET.

nexuslexus

Motor trend today reported that the base price for the LS460 will be between 58,500 and 62,500, so the earlier poster was correct on that.

They report the base price of the LS600hl will be $75,000-$85,000 which is in line with what my dealer has told me.

ljflx

My dealer says there is no official prices but he gave me some guidelines and they are right where we've pegged them on the LS600HL. Base will be around $80K and limo edition will be around $100K. I assume the limo edition is the one with the fancy rear seat recliner and the DVD player. His belief is that most of the LS cars will run around $67K for the SWB, $76-78K for the LWB and $86-88K for the hybrid. The $100K car will probably be a custom order. At those prices I'm taking the hybrid. I just hope they make enough of them.

drfill

drfill

Right on top of the S550 sounds like a plan to me.

DrFill