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To Fix Up or Trade Up, That is the Question

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  • yusuf1yusuf1 Member Posts: 17
    Hello. THis post may answer itself but more heads are better than one. I have 1999 Honda Accord 4-door LX with 178,000 miles on it. Just got the title a couple of months ago. Needs timing belt and a few other things done. Vehicle still runs great though. Repairs could total over $1000 easily. This is money I simply don't have and may not be able to save up for. I've thought about trading up before that belt snaps, then I'd be in worse shape. So, trade and deal with monthly payments or try to come up the repair money? As far as trading, I've thought about the new Sentra or maybe a used Camry or Accord. Thanks for the help.
  • kiawahkiawah Member Posts: 3,666
    If you don't have money to fix the Accords timing belt, how would you have money for a new Sentra of other used Camry or Accord. If you bought a different Camry or Accord, you might end up with other hidden problems costing equal to or greater to fix. Buy a new vehicle and you'll have larger insurance payments as well.

    Not knowing your driving or financial situations....but if you have specific known problems with the 99 Accord and everything else is good, I'd fix it.
  • bobstbobst Member Posts: 1,776
    I would repair things that are safety related, but that's all.

    Forget about the timing belt.

    Keep driving the car until it falls apart and start saving for a new car.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Well if you don't have any money you don't have any choice except going into debt....and then you don't have any money to pay off the debt.

    So really you have no choice but to drive the car until it collapses, unfortunately, or save up the $1K to get the car squared away.

    Unless the '99 is an absolute pile of junk, it probably has another 75K in it if you nurse it along, and just buying some other used car with high miles isn't going to solve your problems.

    The cheapest new car with a down payment is still going to cost you $250 a month if you have good credit.

    You're not going to "trade" this car up for anything much---you don't have much equity in an 8 year old car with 180,000 miles on it. You'd be lucky to get enough for it to make a small down payment on a Yaris or similar entry-level car.

    If you want a "nicer" car like a Camry, you'd best figure that you'll be financing $20,000 at 7% interest over 66 months.
  • jlawrence01jlawrence01 Member Posts: 1,757
    Just bought a $600 beater until I find something better. Add $450 in needed repairs (as it was in the garage for five years) plus $150 in registration and sales taxes.

    Fix the car and run it until you have a downpayment on a new one.
  • wtd44wtd44 Member Posts: 1,208
    ...the solution suggested by our illustrious host, Mr. Shiftright! :D
  • leonchinleonchin Member Posts: 10
    why is $2k?
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    Is that $1000 quote by the dealership, or by an independent? Sometimes going to an independent with experience dealing with Hondas might result in a lower price..

    But I would say that with 178,000 miles, I would probably just continue to change the oil regularly and drive it until it drops. Meanwhile, I'd start stashing money away for a down payment on a newer Accord.
  • yusuf1yusuf1 Member Posts: 17
    Hello all and thanks for the advice. Went to the local Honda with my cousin, who was there for his Ridgeline. Ok, let them run the numbers and see what happens. 2-3k for my trade-in. They're trying to put me in a fully-loaded '05 v6 ex accord sedan with 21k miles on it. My payments are probably going to be in the 350.00 range. These guys are relentless but I know its their job to sell the car. Humor me, what do you think..by the way, my '99 needs the ac fan motor and an EGR valve..i got the timing belt with water pump and valve cover gasket done.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Don't look at the payments, look at what you are actually paying for the car and what they are actually giving you, in cash, for your trade.
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    $350 a month for how long? 72 months? 60?
    I would probably look at the total amount you're paying and not the monthly payment.

    Another thought to consider is upgrading to a newer Accord while keeping the old one, especially since you had the timing belt done. The old one could be used as a daily runabout car while the new one could be used more sparingly, thereby saving a little bit on depreciation.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,736
    As others have said, you need ALOT more info here.

    Having said that, however, if the term is 60 months, then the payment is just about right.

    I'm guessing $18,500 is the selling price of the car. ($18.5k - $2500 trade = $16k + tax, tags, fees = $17.5k OTD ... using a rough number of $20/mo/$1k financed over 60 mos, I get $350.)

    Now... we're talking with automatic trans and navigation, right? At least, that is my interpretation of "fully loaded" (although alot of folks say fully loaded when it is obviously not).

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • yusuf1yusuf1 Member Posts: 17
    ok, auto trans..everything but the navi system. Sunroof , heated seats, power, xm basic radio, crumple zones..Selling price is about $18,900.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,736
    Ok. So it sounds like you might have a little more room to play. I'd probably be looking to pay around $18k for it.

    OR... do yourself a favor and get a new SE V6 for a couple grand more.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • yusuf1yusuf1 Member Posts: 17
    Thanks. Went back to the dealership today and talked to the finance manager. She said it was hard to get anyone to finance me ( bad credit and bad payment history on the '99, but is is paid off and I have the title, oh well). She did find someone who'd do it for $481.00 a month?!? What?? (cough, cough). With my financial situation..that is in no way possible. May have to try Carmax.
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    I would definitely do a favor and take a look at the brand new 2007s. They're being discounted significantly, and depending on whether you want the V6 or not, you can get an SE model for around $19-$20Kish, and the SE V6 model for about $1500 more.

    Given your self-reported bad credit history, I wouldn't be looking to get the Honda discount financing, which is at 2.9% APR (in my area; Middle Tennessee) I believe.

    But the brand new SE model, despite lacking a sunroof and leather, may be able to be financed at a lower rate, and you'll be able to get into a new car.

    Sometimes I wonder why people even bother with a late-model Certified or Used Honda. For an extra grand or two, given the timing, you can get the brand new model.

    And CarMax ain't cheap when it comes to used Hondas... For the time and effort, you may as well just go with the brand new one.
  • joel0622joel0622 Member Posts: 3,299
    OK, I will bite. I am Honda illeterate so I got to know. what option is crumple zones. Please tell me you were joking or that on a Honda crumple zones are a different thing then on all other cars made.
  • yusuf1yusuf1 Member Posts: 17
    Ok, sorry. It's simply another safety feature on most cars
    that can help lower your insurance rates, sometimes. Nothing special. As far as the new Honda, they are nice and feel more solid, but I still don't see how I can get one
    within my payment requirements..Again, thanks all for the advice.
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    Crumple Zones are required on all cars by the way ;)

    What are your payment requirements? For around $20,000, you probably could get $500 a month for 60 months, if not less. (extremely rough estimate there; I may be wrong)

    If you are willing to wait until August, you could probably push prices down another $500-$1000, but you lose the luxury of selection in terms of colors, both exterior and interior.
  • yusuf1yusuf1 Member Posts: 17
    :):blush: Forgive my lack of knowledge, salesman made it seem like a big deal ( I will not be going back there in the future), my current Honda I was paying $335.00 a month for 60 and even that became a burden, so I can't go over $300. I'm open to any used make/model where that's a possibility given my trade.
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    I would give the Hyundai Elantra a try. You can still find some dealerships that carry brand new 2006s, and those are decent cars for around $12,000ish. Of course, the 07s are nicer, but the 06s will be significantly less expensive as the Elantra has grown in size and price.
    Hyundais depreciate heavily the first few years though, so I wouldn't be expecting to trade up.

    If you want to go used, I would definitely look into a clean, year old Chevrolet Malibu. You could get one in the $11,000 range, about the same as the Elantra, but you'd be getting a much bigger car for about the same price.
  • adevansadevans Member Posts: 1
    97 olds cutlass w/119,000 mi. leaking coolant and running above normal temp - repair shop said needed quick release fitting on top of intake ($195) then called back and said needs intake gasket ($900 w/quick release and coolant flush). car's only worth about $1,300 at best, but buying even a new used car is expensive in itself and insurance is more expensive too. But, if I fix it, there's the big risk that just more and more stuff to fix will follow. I have already fixed quite a bit between 60,00 and 100,000 miles, but I'm sure that there is no shortage of more things that could need fixing. I've never owned a foreign car and don't have a clue what to buy next and don't even want to think about it, but have to. Car is sitting at repair shop and I've got rental till Saturday only. Rental is a Hyundai Sonata and it's sweet.
    A.E.
  • bobstbobst Member Posts: 1,776
    I would not spend $900 + $195 on a ten-year old car that is worth $1300.

    I never heard of an 'intake gasket' that would cause coolant to leak if it failed. There is a head gasket that is difficult to replace, and if that is what they are referring to, I can see why it might cost a lot.

    I don't think your problem affects the safety of the car, so you might want to just drive it and add coolant every so often.
  • jlawrence01jlawrence01 Member Posts: 1,757
    That's a close one. You'll pay more than $900 in sales tax on any new car. I would probably fix the car and start researching what your next vehicle choice will be.

    I would strongly suggest renting a number of vehicles over the next few months to identify what you really want. You can get some great deals at Hertz Local Edition using some of the Spirit Airlines discount codes. I have been able to rent vehicles for about $35/weekend.
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    With the car only worth $1300, I definitely wouldn't dump $900 into it. It's at the point where it's pretty much time to junk it.

    Since you enjoy your Sonata rental, I would start searching for a clean, year-old, ex-rental Sonata. (Others may disagree with me on the ex-rental part, but I believe it'll be an okay car) Remember, though, that if you buy a Hyundai or Kia used the 10 year, 100K powertrain warranty does not transfer; only the 5 year, 60K B2B warranty transfers.

    Depending on your budget, I would not rule out a brand new Hyundai Elantra, an ex-rental Ford Fusion, or perhaps a Scion. (if you don't mind something small)

    late model Hondas and Toyotas are extremely expensive, and if you can afford an 05 or 06 Accord, then I suggest ponying up an extra $1000-$2000 for a brand new one.

    Good Luck :)
  • dtownfbdtownfb Member Posts: 2,918
    if nothing else is wrong with the vehicle, i would follow jlawrence advice. fix it and start researching your next car. This is a very very common repair for GM. It should not cost you more than $800. But you definitely need to get it fixed. The coolant is leaking into the engine block. Too much coolant is not a good thing for the engine.

    Of course if you are itching for a new car (and can afford it) then by all means dump this car and buy the Sonata.
  • jlawrence01jlawrence01 Member Posts: 1,757
    Personally, I would get another bid on the work. $1000 seems too high as I had the work done for about $550 on my Oldsmobile.

    Alternative two would be to keep running the car until the engine does blow making sure that the coolant does not get to low. That is a little chancy to me, but my friends who buy only beaters will do tghat.
  • repolrepol Member Posts: 1
    I have a 2001 Chrysler Sebring LXi with 104,000 miles on it--paid off in July '06. Since July, I've put $900 in repairs in it, with another estimated $1900 to go (have replaced upper and lower control arms in front, oil sending unit and switch, thermostat--have just been told will need water pump for sure and possibly oil pump--the oil light comes on at idle intermittently). Don't know off hand if anything else is wrong with it, but it seems to be running fine. Here's the age-old question--do I sink in the money to get it fixed and hope it lasts another 50K, or give up the ghost and trade it in? Car seems to be worth $3500-4500 now, according to edmunds estimates (but I have no real idea what it's worth). I don't have anything in mind that I would want instead, and the idea of car shopping nauseates me. I'm sort of at the point of, if I have to sink that kind of money into it, why not sink that money into something with a warranty? (and I don't think I'd get brand-new; teacher's salary) All advice is greatly appreciated!
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I was about to say "fix it" and then I re-read your post more carefully---this "oil light" thingie scares me. What if it isn't the sender or the oil pump?

    So I guess I'd say work on that problem first. If the oil pump does not correct the low oil pressure, then you have big trouble.

    As for the control arms--what symptoms exactly suggest this repair? Are your tires wearing funny? Did anyone show you excessive wear in these arms? I'd like to know the basis for this repair.

    I guess what I'm saying is that you need some second opinions to make sure all these repairs are necessary, and if they are all necessary, solve the oil pressure problem first. If the car has worn engine bearings, I would not put in a new engine. You can get a pretty decent car for around $10,000 and maybe $8K.
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    The oil light problem scares me. I would probably fix it, and then start looking for a car around $10,000, whether it is a higher mileage Honda Accord, or a year old, ex-rental car. (I suggest looking into the Chevrolet Malibu, Hyundai Sonata, and Kia Optimas)
  • joel0622joel0622 Member Posts: 3,299
    On if I would fix a car or sell it is if the cars value is twice the cost of repair then it is worth fixing. If it is not the scrap it for what you can and move on.

    If I have a $2000 car and it needs a $1000 work, fine I know I can get my money back down the road even if it drops half its value over the next year or so. If in 2 years its only worth a $1000, no prob, thats the money I spent on my repair plus I got 2 years of service out of it.
  • wtd44wtd44 Member Posts: 1,208
    I like your rule, but only for "low monetary value" cars. On the other hand, when you buy a new car, it will average a loss in sales value at an alarming but decreasing rate.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I think that working off the "value" of the car is tricky, because most people seem to have an inflated view of what their old car is worth---only to be quite disappointed when they go to sell it or offer it as a down on a newer vehicle.

    But as a rough rule, it's pretty good...presuming you don't have to use it every 6 months!
  • wtd44wtd44 Member Posts: 1,208
    I truly agree. My "problem" is loving to move on to yet another vehicle, as in: So many cars, so little time! I waste a lot of value, but smile and drive.
  • joel0622joel0622 Member Posts: 3,299
    I like your rule, but only for "low monetary value" cars. On the other hand, when you buy a new car, it will average a loss in sales value at an alarming but decreasing rate.

    Very true, but I always put 100K mile Service Contracts on mine so by the time I have to start paying for repairs the rule applies.
  • joel0622joel0622 Member Posts: 3,299
    But as a rough rule, it's pretty good...presuming you don't have to use it every 6 months!

    Excellent point, then its time to re-think the plan :D
  • wlbrown9wlbrown9 Member Posts: 867
    Well, on a less than $3K or so vehicle, trade in is not going to be much if anything (kind of agree from the dealer point of view). Best thing to do with these is try to sell it yourself and likely get 2-3 times the return. But if you don't have time to sell it yourself or don't want that risk, then you have to settle for whatever you can get in trade. This works best of course if you have a couple $K extra you can use to replace it and then try to sell the older one.
  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Member Posts: 24,192
    I have a Chrysler Cirrus (4-door Sebring). Had the same problem with the oil light at idle. It was a bad sensor. $35 repair.

    I agree with the host, deal with that FIRST.

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • wtd44wtd44 Member Posts: 1,208
    Was that a faulty sending unit of the variety that screw into a hole in the pressure side of the oil delivery system? I've had occasion to have one of those need replacing, too. If you're lucky, they'll be easy to get to with a wrench.
  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Member Posts: 24,192
    The sensor that went bad on my Chrysler was a little plug that screwed into the oil pan or engine block. This was a few years ago so my memory is not 100%. I do know that if I knew what was wrong I could have fixed it myself with a wrench. Sometimes you pay the mechanic $75 an hour to turn a screw because he knows WHICH screw to turn.

    BTW, my car has the Mitsu built 2.5L and I think the 2001 has the 2.7L Chrysler. Unless you have the 2.4L, in which case, never mind.

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • blues_cluesblues_clues Member Posts: 2
    I have a 2006 nissan maxima that im probably going to trade in towards a new nissan SUV . I havent driven the car much in the last few years since i have been able to work from the home office.

    The last time i took the car for an inspection the 'check engine ' light indicator came on due to a knock indicator and a temp indicator (?? ) . I had them both replaced which reset the check engine light . I have been fighting for the past 6 months to get the OB diags to go throught a cycle so i can get my car inspected again. Ive had diags run on my car which report there arent any issues with my emmisions system. Its just the OB wont report 'ready' for the inspection station. I have been told by nissan and by everyone else that i just need to keep driving it. An inspector told me he has seen Nissans go 5000 miles before the OB was ready to be tested again. It would probably take me a years worth of driving before i would reach that. i am worried that Nissan will not take the car as a trade in since it still has a rejection stick on the window.

    Does anyone else think I will have trouble when trading in my car?
  • john500john500 Member Posts: 409
    I am having some logic flaws with your question.

    1. A new vehicle should have an inspection interval that lasts for at least 2 years (i.e. even if you bought the car in late 2005, it would still have at least an inspection cycle to the end of 2007).

    2. A 2006 vehicle with low miles (< 36,000) is still clearly under warranty. Any repairs associated with the indicator light are Nissan's problem especially if you are buying another Nissan vehicle.

    All dealers will try to rip you off on the trade, however, the indicator light should not be a problem as long as you didn't void the warranty.
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    Your problem should definitely be covered under warranty, but it is true that you need to put a few miles on the car to get the emissions codes back in. I would say you would have to drive anywhere from 100 to 200 miles minimum maybe.

    I would drive 200 miles first, then try to get it reinspected. If the codes still aren't there, then I would head back to the Nissan dealer.

    I would probably avoid trading it in, as it is rather new and you will probably take a hit on depreciation.
  • blues_cluesblues_clues Member Posts: 2
    ooops Its a 1996 Nissan Maxima......
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    The fact that it is a 1996 changes the game.
    I would do the same thing that I said above though; and drive the car for another 200 miles or so.
  • kmz0819kmz0819 Member Posts: 2
    Hi everyone. Last week, the check engine light in my 2004 Hyundai Sonata came on (34,500 miles). I took it to the local dealer, and they fixed my O2 sensor under warranty. No biggie. Well, they also handed me a list of other things needing repairs - new tires, front and rear brakes (rotors if necessary), alignment, transmission and power steering flushes.

    Now, I know with 3 years and almost 35,000 miles on the car, it's expected maintenance. My predicament is that we are talking about getting something larger to accomodate our growing family.

    In your opinion, would it be more economical to pay the $1000+ to fix everything and then trade it in, or to just take the hit on the trade-in value?

    Thank you in advance for your assistance!
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    If you're going to trade it in, only immediately noticeable items will affect value...so from your list that sounds like tires and then only if they are as bald as your host.

    When a dealer offers you a trade-in price, he is already taking into account reconditioning costs.
  • kmz0819kmz0819 Member Posts: 2
    Thank you so much! That makes perfect sense. And a chuckle to boot!

    Have a great day! :shades:
  • jchan2jchan2 Member Posts: 4,956
    Hmm... I would see what kind of deals I could get on trade in, and maybe replace the tires with a cheap set from Sam's Club or something...

    All the other stuff wouldn't be something somebody noticed right off the bat, and a dealership takes into account some reconditioning when they purchase the car from you.
  • bolivarbolivar Member Posts: 2,316
    -Look at your owners manual's maintenance schedule to see if a transmission drain and refill is called for, and at what milage. Hondas do call for one at 36,000 miles. Many autos do not call for one at this milage. I would not do a 'flush'. I would drain out what will come out and refill. I would bet this is what the maintenance call for, at whatever milage. And it is cheaper than a 'flush'.

    -Do you think you need an alignment? Does the car 'pull' when driving it? Are the tires worn unevenly, which would indicate a need for alignment.

    -I would have wanted to look at the brake pads myself. Many cars can go much farther than 36,000 miles on brakes, especially on the rear. Before having this done, I would get a second opinion at another independent shop. Also, many cars have a little thingie on the brake pads that will make noise when braking if the pads are worn down and need replaced. Does the steering 'wobble' when braking? If so, the front rotors probably need replacing, if not, just pad are probably all that you need.

    -Have you looked at the tires? It's pretty easy, there are wear indicators in the treads. When you can see a 'bar' of rubber across the tire, it needs replaced. Sears always has tires on sale. If the tires are worn out, and you are going to trade it sometime soon, a cheap set of tires is all you need.

    -Power steering fluid is usually NEVER needed to be flushed. Especially at 36,000 miles.

    Remember, when a dealer gives you a list such as this, it has taken someone a couple of minutes to check off a bunch of items on list and run the estimates. A dealer in many cases is working to move money from you wallet to his account.

    You need to become more familiar with maintenance items for your car. It is all laid out in the owner's manual. You should not need to do more than is called for in the manual.
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