Chrysler 300C SRT-8

SylviaSylvia Member Posts: 1,636
Discuss the 2005 Chrysler 300C SRT-8 here!


  • 300c1300c1 Member Posts: 1
    My 2005 has 5,000 miles and has developed a problem when normal driving shifts to low gear and does not go higher. In shop for second time and mechanic cannot find info on code the computer is displaying. Has anyone had trans problems on the 300 models???
  • rayainswrayainsw Member Posts: 3,190
    The SRT-8 is currently on my Short List.

    I am eagerly (impatiently) awaiting published tests.

    Worst aspect (for me) appears to be the 19 mpg EPA highway estimate I have seen . . .


    - Ray

    Hoping Job #1 holds to 10 Jan as scheduled . . .
    2022 X3 M40i
  • jeggejegge Member Posts: 1
    My experience with my Ford Explorer was a bad sensor, sending incorrect messages, thus the valves in the transmission were unable to respond. They overhauled it twice before getting right. Hope this is helpful. jegge
  • bigelmbigelm Member Posts: 995
    I'm not sure if this link is against Edmunds policies...



    DETROIT -- The 2005 Chrysler 300C SRT8, a high-performance version of the sedan, gets an extra 85 horsepower and a $6,275 price bump over the rear-drive 300C to $39,995, including a $625 destination charge.


    The addition to the 300C lineup goes on sale in the spring, the Chrysler group said Monday. Exterior color choices are limited to silver or black.


    SRT, for Street and Racing Technology, is the Chrysler group's designation for vehicles that have been modified by the factory for higher performance.


    The main change for the 300C SRT8 is an increase in the displacement of the Hemi V-8 from 5.7 liters to 6.1 liters. That boosts the engine's output from 340 hp for the 5.7-liter unit to 425 hp for the 6.1-liter unit, an increase of 25 percent. Torque increases from 390 pounds-feet to 420 pounds-feet, a 7.7 percent increase.


    Other changes to the engine include a higher compression ratio and redesigned cylinder heads and manifolds for better air flow. The engine block, crankshaft and connecting rods have been reinforced for greater strength.


    Exterior changes include revised front and rear fascias, a decklid spoiler and body-color grille insert.
  • buddabudda Member Posts: 3
    I just picked up my 2005 300c on Jan. 1st and it had to be towed into the dealer today (only 189 miles on car) because the trany was not going into higher gears. It's rear was also making a loud & sudden grinding noise if more gas is given!

    I won't know for a couple of days the results. Does anyone have any further answers?
  • silverrushsilverrush Member Posts: 21
    I'm sold !!! I ordered a silver SRT-8 on 1/13. E-mailed 18 dealers in the Detroit area, prices all over the board. (No Chrysler employee discount on SRT products.) Did the best I could , GEEEZ , SOME DEALER IN CALIFORNIA HAS THE SAME CAR ON EBAY AS I WRITE THIS WITH A "Buy it Now" for $70 GRAND !!! Car is going to be HOT !! Ordered SRT Option Package II , a sunroof and better speakers. SRT Option I is just side curtain airbags. Any one else try to order ??
  • durango_rtdurango_rt Member Posts: 8
    I'm torn between the SRT-8 & the 'regular' 300C. I'm sure I'll have to pay way over the MSRP for the SRT-8, plus the mileage is so bad. I'm already driving a 12-14 MPG Durango R/T! How was your puchase experience? Did you use Chrysler Financing? Could you use cash as leverage?
  • jimhemijimhemi Member Posts: 223
    Does anyone fear the transmission breaking with all of that torque? 425 lb. ft of torque is a lot for an automatic trans to hold up to. I know the old 727 Torque Flights of the 60's and 70's weren't a problem because of their size and the heavy duty parts they used. They also track tested them on the drag strips so when they broke they can improve for the street. I'm waiting for a few blow ups before I lay my money down on one of these. I love this car and the Magnum SRT. If it came with the Viper 6 speeed I can see no problem , after all that and the Ram SRT10 is putting 500 lb. ft through the gears. Just leary of all that power and a weak trans.
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    After seeing this car in person at Detroit you come away with a feeling that American car industry just might survive afterall. The 300C was already hot, but the SRT-8 version looks like the orignal show car, 20-inch wheels and all. Simply stunning. The interior is pretty good too.


  • pscdocpscdoc Member Posts: 93
    The car is great from what I have read, but the asking price will be around $15,000.00 over sticker!

    I am scheduled for a test drive next month when my dealer will have its first delivery.
  • srt300srt300 Member Posts: 5
    Where do you live? I was told the SRT would be for sale in the spring! What is the price the dealer is asking and were you able to order one? I live in Massachusetts,lots of snow here!
  • srt300srt300 Member Posts: 5
    If the transmission is like the one in the E55-AMG it will hold up just fine! I bet the SRT has alot of German parts in it,since we know who owns Chrysler!!
  • pscdocpscdoc Member Posts: 93
    I live in southern Cali. and I was at my dealer this morning getting my '05 ltd. chrysler pacifica its regular maintenance. I talked to the sales rep there and they are getting 1 Metallic Black SRT8 next month (mind you this is a 5 star dealer who moves alot of inventory). I have not ordered one just yet, but am waiting for the call for the test drive. It depends how much I like the vehicle, I may bite the bullet and pay what they are asking. This is going to be one hard vehicle to find, let alone buy!
  • srt300srt300 Member Posts: 5
    I got lucky and placed an order last week here in the Boston area! I was told the price would be the sticker price and it was a silver SRT with all the options! I hope it arrives in early April when all the snow is gone.
  • pscdocpscdoc Member Posts: 93
    Hmm....I am VERY suprised that you were able to secure such a price. I mean I am pretty sure most if not all dealers will add a hefty mark up on this vehicle and yes people will probably pay it. Well I hope that price sticks...let us know if it actually ends with that happy ending. Good luck.
  • giovanni1giovanni1 Member Posts: 106
    I had a dealer here in Northern Ca offer to sell me one at msrp if I were to pre-order now. Paying over MSRP is for those with more money than brains.
  • jimhemijimhemi Member Posts: 223
    We know whos owns Chrysler. Ask 300C who posted problems with his 300C Trans and it isn't even the SRT. I'm not super familiar with the E55 but does it produce the same torque that the SRT will be making? The A580 Trans from Chrysler is what will be in this and in the SRT8 Magnum. I hope that it holds up because I'm torn between the 300CSRT and the Magnum SRT8. I just know from years of dealing with Mopars(71 Charger 500, 426 Hemi 727 Torque Flight) that this trans which has been around since the 80's hasn't been the best.

    Dodge had similar problems with the auto transmissions in their trucks equipped with the Cummins. In 98 and 99 when Cummins came out with some killer torque engines, the trucks spent a considerable amount of time on the lift at the dealership where I worked. Let's just hope I'm wrong. But I am right when I say they should offer a 6 speed manual in this car.
  • srt300srt300 Member Posts: 5
    I would think that the boys in the SRT department would make sure the trans is strong enough to handle the 425HP or the dealerships that sell it will be very unhappy!If you divide 5000 SRT"s into 2500 dealers that equals about 2 per dealer! I bet there are 5000 rapers,football and basketball players that all would like to have a new silver or black SRT!Place your order NOW!!
  • durango_rtdurango_rt Member Posts: 8
    Yup, just ordered pretty much the same thing.

    Local dealer was great. What does option package II include? The dealer didn't know.
  • srt300srt300 Member Posts: 5
    Option ll includes navigation built in GPS,7 speaker boston aucuistic with 6 cd player, moon roof and more....When did the dealer expect delivery?
  • pscdocpscdoc Member Posts: 93
    What was your final price(excluding tax/lic.)? and will that price stand when you receive delivery?
  • durango_rtdurango_rt Member Posts: 8
    He is expecting it any day, this Sat? (1/29)
  • durango_rtdurango_rt Member Posts: 8
    Good question, I'll let you know...
  • silverrushsilverrush Member Posts: 21
    Does anyone know how much the gas guzzler tax is going to be ?? Ordered my car 2 weeks ago , negotiated and agreed on a final price just to find out about this tax a few days ago. Wondering if this tax will be added to the bottom line and I'll have to pay state sales tax on this Gov. regulated tax ?? I have a new invoice from the dealer listing it at $1700.00. The salesman then said it's $2100.00 but he's not sure ?? Been patient , like the car and got a good deal. First "Chrysler" product to get this tax. (the Viper is a Dodge) None of the Chrysler dealers I received quotes from included this added cost. HELP !!
  • camradoccamradoc Member Posts: 5
    Silver 300C SRT8 on order with local dealer since Jan.6, can't wait to see when it finally arrives. Seems to be a loaded vehicle with Groups I & II, power sunroof, Boston speakers & sub. Big change from present SLK32 AMG, although similar performance...Hope the gas guzzler tax won't guzzle too much additional money!
  • pscdocpscdoc Member Posts: 93
    I was told that the gas guzzler tax will be around $1,700.00, and its already included in the MSRP sticker price.
  • pagjapagja Member Posts: 4
    I wonder why with a "late" introduction ("spring of 2005") of the new SRT-8, that they didn't go with a 2006 model year instead of calling it a 2005 model. It seems to me that GM and Ford both are calling models introduced after JANUARY are known as 2006's. If we take delivery of our SRT's like they say in the "spring", they will be within only a few months of the new 2006 model introduction anyway...not good when it comes to the "book" depreciation schedules!
  • silverrushsilverrush Member Posts: 21
    Are you kidding me ??!! If you are in the market for a car like this you're not going to worry about depreciation !! Believe me , this is my 1st " NEW " Chrysler / Benz product EVER !! ( I may cancel the order if I can't get a straight answer from the dealer soon on the added gas guzzler tax !!) Oh by the way . please see Toyota for resale and residuals !! " EVERYTHING " THEY BUILD IS BETTER THAN GM OR FORD !??! Anyone find out about the GAS GUZZLER TAX yet ??
  • pscdocpscdoc Member Posts: 93
    As stated previously, it is $1,700.00 here in Cali., which is included in the final MSRP.
  • silverrushsilverrush Member Posts: 21
    I went to the dealer today and was told it's $1700.00. Also found out this is a taxable tax. At least I know the bottom line and have a total. Thanks pscdoc.
  • danohdanoh Member Posts: 26
    Check out ebay for a couple at auction !!


    seller(dealer) states delivery at end of feb.
  • 0sparky00sparky0 Member Posts: 4
    I was wondering if any of you might have a suggestion on how I might go about checking the status of the SRT I have on order from the local dealer here (other than asking them, as so far they don't seem to be that eager to update me). They only suggested it would arrive maybe in February. I saw something in a 300 forum that we would need the dealer number or code, which I think I have..Thanks for your help. Can't wait to get the car!
  • camradoccamradoc Member Posts: 5
    Dealer just informed me that there will be a $2100 gas guzzler tax, in addition to MSRP...
  • pscdocpscdoc Member Posts: 93
    Are you in CA? because here it is set to be $1,700.00 as quoted by the dealer I talked to.
  • camradoccamradoc Member Posts: 5
    Located in Northern Arizona. Dealer just called me this morning to tell me about the $2,100.00 tax.
  • camradoccamradoc Member Posts: 5
    Forgot to mention: according to the salesman, apparently there is already a price increase on these vehicles, although I don't know how much. Luckily, the order was placed at the beginning of January, which means it's still at the original MSRP.
  • silverrushsilverrush Member Posts: 21
    My salesman called me today. Said the "Gas Guzzler Tax" is now $2100.00 on the SRT-8. The good news is since my order was placed before February 4th , I have to pay the initial $1700.00 I was quoted. Should receive the car next month some time. Has anyone had a chance to drive one yet ??
  • rrombeirorrombeiro Member Posts: 10
    Just received a copy of my order sheet for my 2006 Chrysler 300C SRT8. Went with the Bright Silver and every single option. Including $2,100 Gas Guzzler tax it priced out at $45,600.


    Now comes the hard part -- waiting!!!!!


    I am soon turning in my 2000 BMW 740i Sport and replacing it with the SRT8. I have been saying for 15 years that as soon as the Americans built a car I would buy, I would buy it. It has finally happened (ironically it is built in Canada!).


    For those waiting on their SRT8 orders, I have some questions:


    1) What kind of car is the SRT8 going to replace for you?


    2) What modifications (interior, exterior, performance) do you plan to make?


    3) When do you expect to receive an indication of build/ship dates?



  • rrombeirorrombeiro Member Posts: 10
    I am interested in starting an SRT8 owners & enthusiasts club in Ohio. I live in the Columbus area (central location). If you are interested in getting involved, e-mail me at the address below:


    [email protected]


  • 0sparky00sparky0 Member Posts: 4
    Mine's replacing a Chevy Silverado Crew cab HD1500, which I love. I am a real estate broker in an upscale market...a few too many clients have commented on the size of the truck. The quest for an affordable big back seat brought me to the 300, and the 425hp SRT8 just gave me a chubby. Reminded me of a '79 chevy malibu my dad had made special for him when I was a kid. Kind of a factory special hot rod with room for the family. I am not so thrilled about the mileage figures, but they are better than the truck.


    When it arrives, I will have the dealer tint the windows and possibly will have a wood dash kit installed. They seem to look ok. We also have a jag that clients love because of the beautiful wood and huge seats. I'm undecided about it still though. I am not sure if I would risk adversely impacting resale if it is too impractical a car for me to drive daily by adding the wood.


    When I first ordered the car they were thinking it would show up in Feb. Then the staff changed at the dealer and they changed it to May. i went to the Sales Manager then, who suggested it would be earler. I think that only someone at DC will be able to give us a realistic answer as a whole.


    I did so much research looking for the right car. I love Jags, Mercedes are still not reliable enough and the S is way too much dosh for us. Not many other vehicles match the passenger space other than those, the A8 Audi (very expensive, poor customer service ratings), Crown Vic/Town Car(I'm only 35yrs old..maybe in another 30yrs it'll be right for me), Avalon(whimpy motor and lacks personality), Q45(actually very nice in all sorts of ways, but a bit too pricey), 7 series (waaaaaayy too pricey), etc...


    Since I always start a test drive in the back seat, these are what the 300 is up against. If the SRT8 had a luxury interior (nicer leather, beige or lighter color options and wood trim), and the clever engine mgmt system on the C it would really be almost perfect.


    It's been a REALLY long time since I have been inspired by a car, as this one has. I hope it is all I think it will be, and more!
  • silverrushsilverrush Member Posts: 21
    I ordered my car silver , summer tires and nearly loaded ,(no side air bags) on the 13th of last month. There is still no confirmed build date. My salesman told me he would call me when one appears on his build screen. Was a GM guy , grew up in a GM family. Owned many Pontiacs and other GM products. After 3 bad poorly built cars in a row (1988 Firebird Formula 350 , 1993 Bonnivelle SSEi and a 1998 Olds Intrigue) my last two "new" vehicles have been imports , one of which I still own. Current everyday vehicle is a 2000 Passat GLX. Great solid car , I consider this my wife's car. My 2001 CL Type-S Acura was totaled a few months ago. I was dead stopped at a red light when a kid in a Durango just clobbered me. Broad daylight , hit me so hard my car caused $5 grand in damage to the Volvo V70 wagon in front of me !! Needed a car fast , so we leased a 2004 Grand Prix GT for 24 months. Had 7 years of GM card earnings built up. I wanted to buy a new Vette but hated the fat butt rear end on the C5. Hoped Bob Lutz would come through with a beautiful "new" C6 Vette. In my opinion , they didn't. Don't like the CTS-V. Plus I didn't want to drive a stick in rush hour traffic every day. All but gave up on the BIG 3 (almost bought a Lexus LS430, wife talked me out of it. said we should use the GM money) Then I saw an article on the 300C SRT-8. I haven't been this excited about a new car in years !! All the good stuff , 425 HP Hemi , Brembos , 20 inch wheels. If you told me a year ago that I would buy a new Chrysler product other than a Benz , I would have busted a gut laughing !! Other than not getting a straight answer about the Gas Guzzler tax , (guess my salesman really didn't know how much it was ?!) My experience with the Chrysler dealer has been excellent !! I don't plan on doing any upgrades. Might go to the track and see how she'll do just for fun. For a daily driver , 13.20 and 0 to 60 in 5 seconds flat is plenty fast enough.(Motor Trend February '05 issue) Would have loved to buy a Benz E55 AMG , or an Audi RS6. (where is the Lexus performance car I've been dreaming of ??) $85 large is just too much !! Thanks Chrysler for building a unique super car sleeper that's not going to put me in the poor house !! Crossing my fingers that it's as reliable as fast. I guess the "good old days" are BACK !!
  • rayainswrayainsw Member Posts: 3,190
    (PS2) Bright Silver metallic Job #1 is 3/29/05

    (5AD) Charger Job #1 is 4/4/05

    LXCX48 model Job #1 is 4/4/05

    (GWA) Power sunroof Job #1 is 4/4/05

    (XRV) Rear seat video system Job #1 is 4/11/05

    (PYG) Linen Gold paint Job #1 is 4/18/05

    (590) AWD has a Job #1 of 4/11/05

    (PA4) Silver Steel paint Job #1 is 5/16/05

    LXDX49 Magnum SRT-8 RWD Job #1 is 5/17/05

    (CGS) Side air bags Job #1 is 6/1/05

    (PW1) Stone White paint Job #1 is 6/27/05

    LXDX48 Charger SRT-8 RWD Job #1 is 9/12/05

    (AHB) Police Group Job #1 is 9/21/05

    (XRV) Rear seat video system Job #1 is TBD





    - Ray

    Note - this is presented as:





    Chrysler 300/300C


    Dodge Magnum


    Dodge Charger
    2022 X3 M40i
  • rrombeirorrombeiro Member Posts: 10


    That's funny that you said you were "only" 35. I'm 36, going on 37. I agree with your comments about competitive cars. You left out one thing about the new 7-series -- it fell out of the ugly tree and hit every branch on the way down.


    My second choice was probably the brand new Infiniti M45. Fresh design this year and the same 300+hp V8 as the Q45. Wild interior, lots of gadgets.


    Good luck with getting your SRT8.
  • 0sparky00sparky0 Member Posts: 4
    Thanks. I forgot a number of cars including the LS430 (nice). I am also intrigued by the new M45. Have you compared passenger accomodations between the two (300 and M)? You know what they say...Size really does matter!
  • 6spdtl6spdtl Member Posts: 30
    I really wonder what the hubbub about this car is all about. Its a classic form before function design. The interior is claustrophobic. The fit and finish are poor, the interior materials are not worthy of a car costing half as much. In the engineering aspect, the car is decades behind Japanese or European cars. It's sad that such a large segment of the population buys cars impulsively by silly looks alone. Anyone can build a huge 8 cylinder to motivate a car to be fast and of course give you 11 miles per gallon in the process (yup its got a HEMI, duh, that's why they stopped building them 30 years ago!). Consumer Reports wisely reported that the Ford 500 is essentially a better car in every aspect and I concur. Personally I wouldn't buy either since for the price there are much superior choices offered by the Japanese car makers.
  • 0sparky00sparky0 Member Posts: 4
    I'm sure it's probably really obvious and I am just not seeing it, but how might we extrapolate information relative to our pending orders from the above list/link? For example, if we ordered a 300C SRT8 in silver does that mean it gets started in March? What if it is black, which I didn't see on the list? And if we have silver on order and have a sunroof with it, will eliminating the sunroof option speed up delivery by 6 days?


    Thanks Ray for the scoop!
  • rrombeirorrombeiro Member Posts: 10
    I was inclined to leave this incendiary flame post alone, but failed (obviously, hence this posting).


    6spdtl's post is monumentally misguided. Line-item rebuttals follow below:


    "It's a classic form before function design"

    The platform of the Chrysler 300 is derived from the last-generation Mercedes E-class. In Europe the E-class is the very epitome of function, in fact the car is frequently the taxi of choice in major European cities. Hardly glamorous, but I would assume that 200,000 taxi drivers know a practical car when they see one, right? Score: Chrysler 1, 6spdtl 0.


    "The interior is claustrophobic"

    Seriously, have you sat in any BMW (excluding a long wheelbase 7-series) or Acura lately? Chrysler's "cab forward" design in the early 90's revolutionized interior design and spacious passenger seating. The new 300 utilizes a "wheels at the corners" design to maximize rear-seat hip room, and the car also has one of the longest wheelbase measurements in its class. Score: Chrysler 2, 6spdtl 0.


    "The fit and finish are poor and the interior materials are not worthy of a car costing half as much". The popular car magazines have raved about the 300 interior, the quality is excellent, and a car that is half the price of the entry-level 300 would only be about $12,000. I suspect that Kia or Daewoo would not be too anxious to have one of their cars stacked up against the 300 in a car magazine comparison test. In the end, this is simply a baseless dogmatic claim of a knee-jerk American car-basher. Score: Chrysler 3, 6spdtl 0.


    "In the engineering aspect, the car is decades behind Japanese or European cars"

    C'mon....'decades', seriously?!? I'm thinking mid-1980's BMW 5-series (2 decades) or anything from Honda in the 1970's (3 decades). I'm thinking you're wrong. Score: Chrysler 4, 6spdtl 0.


    "It's sad that such a large segment of the population buys cars impulsively by silly looks alone"

    Again -- you're kidding, right? When you use the term silly looks, go take a look anything made by BMW since Chris Bangle took over. So much for those zany European cars, eh? Score: Chrysler 5, 6spdtl 0.


    "Anyone can build a huge 8 cylinder to motivate a car to be fast and of course give you 11 miles per gallon in the process (yup its got a HEMI, duh, that's why they stopped building them 30 years ago!)"

    The 11 mpg figure is cute, but - alas - wrong. The SRT8 is actually rated at 14 city/19 highway (18 combined). By comparison, the Infiniti Q45 makes nearly 100 less horsepower and gets 18/23. In fact, nearly every 250-350hp European and Japanese V8 sedan made today gets mileage in the range of 18/23. So the SRT8 has at least 100 more horsepower, is more fun than a barrel of monkeys and I only pay a 4 mpg penalty???? Even at $2/gallon that will cost me less than $200 per year! What am I missing here? Score: Chrysler 6, 6spdtl 0.


    "Consumer Reports wisely reported that the Ford 500 is essentially a better car in every aspect and I concur."

    Consumer Reports??? Are you buying a car or a dishwasher? Next thing, you'll be quoting Stone Phillips from Dateline NBC (the guy that rigged the GM pickup truck side-saddle fuel tank explosions). Score: Chrysler 7, 6spdtl 0.


    "Personally I wouldn't buy either since for the price there are much superior choices offered by the Japanese car makers." This is the only one I can't argue. Buy whatever car makes you happiest with the money you have to spend. One thing is for sure, you won't have to worry about me trolling the forums for your Nissan or Audi or whatever, making up a bunch of lies to amuse myself. In the future, think twice....or better yet -- think once.


    Final Score: Chrysler 7, 6spdtl 0.
  • kurtamaxxguykurtamaxxguy Member Posts: 677
    Is America on the binge big time with horsepower and saying nuts to gas economy? Maybe it's because we gotta party before the Oil's too expensive? Whatever.


    So, wrt SRT - 8:


    1. How back ordered is it?

    2. How much extra are you paying for it .vs. MSRP?

    3. Who has the add-on kit for even more power (is 425 enough .vs. Vipers' 500? Bugatti's 1000 ?)

    4. How often can you rev and race it the way you really want to ?
  • silverrushsilverrush Member Posts: 21
    By your name I'm guessing you own an Acura TL ?? What year is it ?? My CL was an '01 as I mentioned above. At the time , this car was constantly compared to the 3 series BMW (which is the other car I was considering at the time.) Saved big bucks buying the Acura. If Acura or should I say Honda had any balls they would build a rear drive V-8 like Chrysler did and Lexus does. Have you drove a 300 ?? I drove one before I ordered my SRT. It was quieter inside than my Acura was !! The interior is HUGE !! (but you have me here , if you own a 2004 or newer Acura TL it's BEAUTIFUL inside !! Chrysler cut corners , needs to work on that !! 425 hp and 420 ft torque will make me forget though !!) The only problem I had was seeing traffic lights if I was the first car in line. Engineering wise , remember this car is built by a German company !! Alot of Benz parts from the E and shared engineering ! It shows when you drive one !! The car is solid !! Anyway , lets talk about those GREAT Honda brakes !! I get every major car magazine including Consumer Reports and read each end to end including this GREAT web site. Every test comparison for the last ten years + , any Honda-Acura finished dead last in stopping distance !! I agree the Japanese build great cars , I bought one , but they lack everything that makes this car GREAT !! Their stuff is BLAND no heart !! Every magazine EXCEPT Consumer Report is GUSHING over the 300 and so am I , I bought one !! If you're so worried about gas mileage you should be on a hybrid forum !! You don't buy a car like this unless your a CAR GUY !! I already own a Ford 500 , but mine is better and it's called a Passat !! REMEMBER , we are talking about a REAL performance sedan here , not a front drive , no torque bad brakes tires have to be rotated every 7000 miles cause the weight distribution is so bad wanna be. (Funny thing is my CL was night and day better than any GM car I every owned !!) If you owned a Lexus GS , LS , Infiniti G35 or a BMW-Audi sedan, I would give you some slack !!
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