VW TDI Settlement - buying a TDI now

nyccarguy

henryn said:

If that 2012 Passat was near me, I would be all over it. Best I can tell, no Sunroof!!!!

Based on their asking price of $15,888, after TT&L (approximated) I could see a net profit of nearly $3.3k.

And did I mention no sunroof?

That's the one I posted eithe rlast week or 2 weeks ago. It is 1/2 hour from my house.

xwesx

I brought up the possibility of snagging another TDI to my wife yesterday, and she was adamant that one is enough. Some people just don't have a well-tuned sense of adventure.... LOL

Also, she so far refuses to drive the Passat; I think she is secretly afraid that she'll like it.

stickguy

I just realized what the TDI deal is perfect for. Buy one like that white golf with a stick, and teach your wife or kids how to drive a manual. Who cares about trashing the clutch while practicing?

mjfloyd1

Another one near Indianapolis. Doesn't list asking price though...

http://www.harechevy.com/used-Indianapolis-2012-Volkswagen-Jetta+SportWagen-20L+TDI-3VWPL7AJ4CM657159

kyfdx

I thought the one I listed might be at their Shelbyville location, at first... Which is only a little over an hour away, but I think it's at the Indy lot, which is down where I bought the A3. Otherwise, I might have gone to "look" at it, today.

corvette

Looks like VW will be able to fix the buyback vehicles and dump them on the used market, if this article is correct.

So, in theory, one could take the buyback, then buy a similar replacement TDI vehicle once VW has made the emissions modification, at what (hopefully) would be a damaged-goods, fire-sale price (since it's ineligible for buyback).

stickguy

sounds like a plan to me. plus, you get to see how they work real-world after the fix is made, before committing to it.

mjfloyd1

kyfdx said:

http://www.hublerchevyauto.com/VehicleDetails/used-2011-Volkswagen-Jetta_SportWagen-4dr_DSG_TDI_SportWagen-Indianapolis-IN/2822454833 $15,400 buyback $12K asking

Asking $14k now

corvette

Dang, I guess the word is getting out. I can see even the "breakeven" deals still being a good deal for someone who plans to drive it until 2018 before taking the buyback, assuming the car doesn't need any major repairs during that time.

kyfdx

mjfloyd1 said:

kyfdx said:

http://www.hublerchevyauto.com/VehicleDetails/used-2011-Volkswagen-Jetta_SportWagen-4dr_DSG_TDI_SportWagen-Indianapolis-IN/2822454833

$15,400 buyback
$12K asking

Asking $14k now

Saw that. I guess the dozen phone calls clued them in.

mjfloyd1

henryn said:

qbrozen said:

henryn said:

Diesel engines produce power at lower rpms than gasoline engines. For this reason, the transmission is programmed to allow operation at lower rpms. This feels like “lugging”, but it really isn’t.

The DSG transmission is different than anything I have ever owned or driven before. Quite different. But different is not bad, I kind of like it actually. And the engine is torquey, I like it more than the base 4 cylinder engine in a CR-V or Soul. Would I rather have a big V8, a Mustang GT or a Genesis? Well, yeah! But for an economy car, this is actually fun to drive.

The Passat itself is a very good car. Solid feel to it, the way the doors shut, the very low noise level inside. And lots of room, big trunk, big back seat. A very nice feel on the highway, you can cruise all day in comfort.

There is a delay in accelerating. When you punch it, there is a pause waiting for the transmission to downshift and the turbo to spool up. It is not 2 or 3 seconds, as someone here had suggested. But it is perceptible.

Maybe something is wring with mine because it most definitely is a delay measurable in seconds. Maybe not 3 secs, but damned near 2. It isn't a downshifting issue because it even happens in manual mode. And I'm not sure it is all turbo lag because even if you are rolling only slightly, she'll take off with authority when you reapply throttle. I think there may be something in the trans or even throttle programming when you come to a complete stop. Possibly they programmed it to avoid so much torque from a dead stop. It would be rather rough on the drivetrain. 

Hmmm... My Passat will burn rubber from a dead stop. Maybe this thing has had a "tune"? Interesting thought. Anyone else with a Passat TDI, will yours burn rubber taking off from a dead stop?

My Passat will burn rubber from a dead stop too. Crappy tires...

mjfloyd1

I did get a nice surprise in the mail yesterday- a letter from VW extending my bumper to bumper warranty till 8/12/17 or 36K miles since it was previously a buyback for a blown turbo. They replaced the turbo, long block, and catalytic converter. No way I'd have bought this car if it wasn't going to be a buyback again just from a value standpoint since buybacks are worth about 50% of non buybacks. Now to figure out what I want to replace it with. Looking at Subaru Legacy for my soon to be new driver daughter, but Subies have a certain stigma in our college town- usually they are plastered with Hillary 16, Coexist, etc bumper stickers. I did once see one with a US Marines sticker and a "I need a new President and so do you" bumper sticker. It was from out of town.

corvette

mjfloyd1 said:

My Passat will burn rubber from a dead stop too. Crappy tires...

Mine has crappy tires (I forget the brand) that look to be slightly more than half worn. And lots of pitting and three small chips on the windshield. I'd be annoyed if it were a keeper, but it's not.

nyccarguy

@mjfloyd1 - the legacy would make a perfect car for a new driver. Fantastic outward visibility for a modern car, secure handling, and (ahem) under-powered. No doubt there is somewhat of a stigma associated with Subarus. I went to school in Ithaca , NY. Numerous Ithaca College & Cornell professors drove outbacks. So did the "townies" who didn't have pickup trucks.

Let me know when you are in the market. I might be persuaded to punch my CCBA card. 9/27 will be 2 years since my last punch.

xwesx

nyccarguy said:

@mjfloyd1 - the legacy would make a perfect car for a new driver. Fantastic outward visibility for a modern car, secure handling, and (ahem) under-powered. No doubt there is somewhat of a stigma associated with Subarus. I went to school in Ithaca , NY. Numerous Ithaca College & Cornell professors drove outbacks. So did the "townies" who didn't have pickup trucks.

Let me know when you are in the market. I might be persuaded to punch my CCBA card. 9/27 will be 2 years since my last punch.

Withdrawal is so difficult.....

xwesx

corvette said:

mjfloyd1 said:

My Passat will burn rubber from a dead stop too. Crappy tires...

Mine has crappy tires (I forget the brand) that look to be slightly more than half worn. And lots of pitting and three small chips on the windshield. I'd be annoyed if it were a keeper, but it's not.

The tires on mine are excellent (for all-seasons). IIRC, they are Continental "ExtremeContact," and looked practically new when I picked up the car. And, yes, it will (easily) break the tires loose from a stop. That engine puts out a lot of torque!

qbrozen

also new Continentals here. It won't break them loose from a stop since there is such a huge lag, but about 10 feet later when the turbos spool up and the transmission decides to engage fully, it will light them up.

stever

The old Michelins on the van would squeal out nicely. The new Continentals don't. The mpg took a little hit too.

corvette

I hopped onto the TDI Club forums earlier today. We're a bunch of amateurs. I saw one poster who had accumulated five buyback-eligible TDIs. I'm sure there are others.

There were lots of misinformed and confused posters, too.

andres3

I should have created a TDI used car lot myself.

henryn

I had the chance to buy a 2nd one, but by the time I made up my mind, it was too late. There are none left in this part of the world. Or at least none left on which it is possible to make a profit.

kyfdx

I liked the deal on the one I bought, but it's not the model or the low mileage vehicle that I would have bought to replace one of my vehicles. So, it's more of a pure arbitrage play. Had I found a low mileage wagon with a stick, I might have used it as my primary, and then would have been more likely to jump on another one, right away.

Plus, I didn't immediately buy into this. It took me a couple of weeks to come around. Of course, since I've made the purchase, the details have become clearer. I've been looking pretty hard since the first of the month, and as noted, the really good deals are gone, and the decent deals disappear, quickly.

However, there is always someone trading in these vehicles on a daily basis. It's just hard to catch them. I should retire, so I have more time to devote to it.

breld

kyfdx said:

Of course, since I've made the purchase, the details have become clearer.

You mean, the details that I brought up early on were confirmed?

Well...now's the time to be proactive and start buying up those 3.0 TDI models, betting on some sort of compensation or buyback!

I had considered a Touareg or Q5/Q7 TDI, figuring they'd be a keeper if no program ever came to fruition, but those are all definitely at a higher price point, making it difficult to hedge your bet.

xwesx

breld said:

I had considered a Touareg or Q5/Q7 TDI, figuring they'd be a keeper if no program ever came to fruition, but those are all definitely at a higher price point, making it difficult to hedge your bet.

True, true. If I had my choice free of any sort of buyback considerations, those models would have been my preference as a "keeper" over the Passat. Maybe, after exposure to the current car, my wife will be a little more open to considering one!

corvette

Yeah, given the pricing, I'd wait until something was on the table before popping on a Q5 or Q7. The TDI Touaregs seem to be much less common. I think there are a few 3.0T A8s out there too. 

henryn

Yeah, I think this would be a much bigger gamble. Not necessarily that the odds are against you, but you will be wagering a LOT more money. I have to agree with @corvette, I would want to see something "on the table" before I laid down my money.

xwesx

True; I was looking at it more as a "I would like to own one of these, regardless of this VW scandal nonsense," than anything else. So, if there was no buyback like with the 2.0T, no harm, no foul.

If you remember a while back on a different thread, I mentioned that when I suggested to my wife that we take a look at a GLK-250 BluTec, she balked at the idea and basically spewed every diesel cliche that exists as to why she wouldn't want to own a diesel. I'm hoping the Passat breaks those notions.

stickguy

good thing that my wife has no clue. I could bring home a diesel, and if I didn't tell her, she probably would never know. Unless she had to ever get gas (which happens maybe once a year).

kyfdx

breld said:

kyfdx said:

Of course, since I've made the purchase, the details have become clearer.

You mean, the details that I brought up early on were confirmed?

Well...now's the time to be proactive and start buying up those 3.0 TDI models, betting on some sort of compensation or buyback!

I had considered a Touareg or Q5/Q7 TDI, figuring they'd be a keeper if no program ever came to fruition, but those are all definitely at a higher price point, making it difficult to hedge your bet.

To be fair, you said I'd get the whole modification amount.
And, I moved pretty quickly. Found and acquired mine on 07/20.

And, yes.. $30K-$50K is a lot bigger nut.

henryn

I was at a big VW dealership today. I had to get the oil changed on my Passat, the car has been nagging me. “Service in 900 miles”, “Service in 800 miles”, etc, and of course you can’t just walk into Walmart and buy the oil and filter. Nor Oreillys. Nor anywhere else, with the exception of the dealership.

And I had a coupon for an oil change at $70, so why not? Well, one reason is they took nearly 2 hours, and charged me nearly $100. But I was going to say, the service department was busy, the showroom was dead. Salesmen sitting around, surfing the internet on their computers, or texting on their phones. No customers working deals. In nearly 2 hours, I did not see a single customer on the showroom floor.

This is on Friday, from about 11:20 to a little after 1 p.m. The Friday before Labor Day, and Labor Day is one of the big selling weekends for new car dealers. I would have to say this particular dealership is in a world of hurt.

andres3

Maybe everyone does all the negotiation online and by email; then signs and drives?

henryn

andres3 said:

Maybe everyone does all the negotiation online and by email; then signs and drives?

Yeah, maybe. But I did not see anyone taking delivery either. The only people I saw on the showroom floor were people like me waiting on the service department. No one signing papers or negotiating or going for test drives or even "kicking tires". I was the only one of the service customers who even walked around the showroom.

The GTI has seats with no room for my oversize bottom. The Touareg has a console so big you feel as though you are in the old Apollo space capsule. Claustrophobic, to me anyway. Nothing I didn't already know, just reminded me of why I would never own either one.

They did have one "retro look" Beetle on the showroom floor. Wheels that emulated the look of ancient steel wheels with "moon" hub caps. I wouldn't want to own one, and see that every day, but it was interesting.

I was thinking of asking for a test drive on a new Passat S, and maybe even a GLI. But no one approached me or glad handed me or ...

corvette

I think the GLI has the same/similar seats as the GTI, so you may find those disagreeable, as well.

I've put over 50 miles on the JSW TDI, and the tank is still showing "full."

henryn

Yeah, I know. The fuel mileage is extraordinary, to say the least. If I had gotten my hands on one back when gas was at $4 a gallon, I probably would have never considered letting it go.

But gas (and diesel) are cheap. And I drive very few miles these days, maybe 10 or 12k a year between 2 vehicles.

henryn

Volkswagen Won’t Attempt to Regain Diesel Leadership in U.S.; Many TDI Models May Never Return

http://blog.caranddriver.com/volkswagen-wont-attempt-to-regain-diesel-leadership-in-u-s-many-tdi-models-may-never-return/

Hinrich J. Woebcken (pictured), president and CEO of Volkswagen Group of America, told us, “I wish to make clear that the push for diesel for the brand is done” in North America.

qbrozen

I think I have had my JSW for a bit under 6 weeks and have already put more than 3k miles on it. I drive way too much these days.

henryn

Hmmm.. But the argument could be made, if you're going to rack up a lot of miles, the TDI is a great car to do it in.

I know in your case, that is negated by your not fitting comfortably inside the car. Out of curiosity, what's your main problem? Leg room, knee room, head room ??

With my Passat, if I had about 1/2 inch more headroom, and a couple of inches more for my right knee, this would be an absolutely great car to spend a lot of time in.

andres3

henryn said:

Hmmm.. But the argument could be made, if you're going to rack up a lot of miles, the TDI is a great car to do it in.

I know in your case, that is negated by your not fitting comfortably inside the car. Out of curiosity, what's your main problem? Leg room, knee room, head room ??

With my Passat, if I had about 1/2 inch more headroom, and a couple of inches more for my right knee, this would be an absolutely great car to spend a lot of time in.

Moonroof in that Passat? Find one without one.

henryn

andres3 said:

henryn said:

Hmmm.. But the argument could be made, if you're going to rack up a lot of miles, the TDI is a great car to do it in.

I know in your case, that is negated by your not fitting comfortably inside the car. Out of curiosity, what's your main problem? Leg room, knee room, head room ??

With my Passat, if I had about 1/2 inch more headroom, and a couple of inches more for my right knee, this would be an absolutely great car to spend a lot of time in.

Moonroof in that Passat? Find one without one.

Much easier said then done. Back around 2012, when we paid off the 2008 Passat, and could no longer buy a new Passat with the very fast 2.0T, we looked at TDI Passats. There were none within 500 miles that did not have a sunroof.

This time around, trying to take advantage of Dieselgate, I made the same search. None, not one, within 500 miles.

To get a diesel in the Passat, you had to buy SE or SEL trim level. All SEL's came with sunroof. Theoretically, the sunroof was an optional extra on the SE trim level. But apparently VW saw fit to only equip around 1% of the Passat TDIs with no sunroof.

fintail

I see rental Passats without moonroof, but probably a zero chance of those being diesel on this continent.

andres3

henryn said:

andres3 said:

henryn said:

Hmmm.. But the argument could be made, if you're going to rack up a lot of miles, the TDI is a great car to do it in.

I know in your case, that is negated by your not fitting comfortably inside the car. Out of curiosity, what's your main problem? Leg room, knee room, head room ??

With my Passat, if I had about 1/2 inch more headroom, and a couple of inches more for my right knee, this would be an absolutely great car to spend a lot of time in.

Moonroof in that Passat? Find one without one.

Much easier said then done. Back around 2012, when we paid off the 2008 Passat, and could no longer buy a new Passat with the very fast 2.0T, we looked at TDI Passats. There were none within 500 miles that did not have a sunroof.

This time around, trying to take advantage of Dieselgate, I made the same search. None, not one, within 500 miles.

To get a diesel in the Passat, you had to buy SE or SEL trim level. All SEL's came with sunroof. Theoretically, the sunroof was an optional extra on the SE trim level. But apparently VW saw fit to only equip around 1% of the Passat TDIs with no sunroof.

Since I was shopping the '16's, you are correct on the Passat without a moonroof. You have to settle for the base S model. SE = automatic moon roof. Same with the Sportwagen my wife bought last year.

qbrozen

henryn said:

Hmmm.. But the argument could be made, if you're going to rack up a lot of miles, the TDI is a great car to do it in. I know in your case, that is negated by your not fitting comfortably inside the car. Out of curiosity, what's your main problem? Leg room, knee room, head room ?? With my Passat, if I had about 1/2 inch more headroom, and a couple of inches more for my right knee, this would be an absolutely great car to spend a lot of time in.

I have more than enough headroom. Passat must have less than the Jetta, which is odd. My problem is my legs. I can't slide the seat back far enough to be comfy because then I am too far from the steering wheel. So my right knee is always pressing on the center console. If they had just put a tilting seat bottom on it, I'd be good. That's what I have found in most economy cars these days. The lousy crank up and down design that is so popular does not work for tall people. I also don't like the lack of comfortably positioned armrests for me. 

henryn

I require more headroom than most, as I am fairly tall (6'2") with short legs (32 inch inseam). I sat in a Golf TDI (2014?) when I was searching for a TDI, and had lots of headroom. I also sat in a Jetta Sportwagen, also lots of headroom. Neither of which had a sunroof, naturally.

If I run the seat all the way back, making my right knee most comfortable, I can't reach the steering wheel. If I tilt the seat back very far, so that my head clears the sunroof, then I once again have trouble reaching the steering wheel. And I've never much cared for driving in a reclined position.

As I said, a 1/2 inch more headroom, and a couple of inches more for my right knee. I hadn't actually thought of extending the steering wheel 2 or 3 inches more, but you're right, that would definitely help.

I drove south of town yesterday for some live music and dancing at a local winery. About 45 minutes each way, mostly highway. I was fairly comfortable (not as good as my Cadillac, but reasonably so), and did 47.2 mpg going and coming. If gas (and diesel) were back at $4 a gallon, this would be very hard to argue with. Very hard.

I have not received my title from the state of Texas yet, but I know it's been registered, as the flood of mail trying to sell me an extended warranty has started. One on Friday, one on Saturday, and 3 in the mail today. And I have to look at every one of them, just in case it's actually something important from Volkswagen about the settlement / buyback.

corvette

I went to the outlet mall today (not recommended on a holiday weekend, it was crowded shortly after they opened and completely covered up by the time I left just before lunch). 50 miles roundtrip, including maybe 10 miles running around the city doing errands. I reset the trip computer prior to leaving and it showed 35.9 MPG when I got back. Meh.

andres3

corvette said:

I went to the outlet mall today (not recommended on a holiday weekend, it was crowded shortly after they opened and completely covered up by the time I left just before lunch). 50 miles roundtrip, including maybe 10 miles running around the city doing errands. I reset the trip computer prior to leaving and it showed 35.9 MPG when I got back. Meh.

The Kia dealer in south San Diego wasn't too busy Saturday night or Sunday morning. Far from empty, but far from full.

stickguy

Q, same reason I end up paying for a car with power seats. I like the front tilted up, and all the manual ones now seem to be like grandmas power chair. they raise you up and dump you out the front!

stevedebi

henryn said:

andres3 said:

henryn said:

Hmmm.. But the argument could be made, if you're going to rack up a lot of miles, the TDI is a great car to do it in.

I know in your case, that is negated by your not fitting comfortably inside the car. Out of curiosity, what's your main problem? Leg room, knee room, head room ??

With my Passat, if I had about 1/2 inch more headroom, and a couple of inches more for my right knee, this would be an absolutely great car to spend a lot of time in.

Moonroof in that Passat? Find one without one.

Much easier said then done. Back around 2012, when we paid off the 2008 Passat, and could no longer buy a new Passat with the very fast 2.0T, we looked at TDI Passats. There were none within 500 miles that did not have a sunroof.

This time around, trying to take advantage of Dieselgate, I made the same search. None, not one, within 500 miles.

To get a diesel in the Passat, you had to buy SE or SEL trim level. All SEL's came with sunroof. Theoretically, the sunroof was an optional extra on the SE trim level. But apparently VW saw fit to only equip around 1% of the Passat TDIs with no sunroof.

We looked at the 2014 TDI Passat without sunroof. I think it was an S model. We didn't want Nav, but preferred the interior look of the SE, so that is what we bought.

qbrozen

I can't say for sure, but I don't believe the moonroof takes up headroom in the JSW since it slides over the roof rather than into the headliner.

BTW, in case you didn't know, I'm 6'5", so head and legroom is of utmost importance to me.

kyfdx

Passat TDIs from 2012-2014

SE
SE w/Sunroof
SE w/Sunroof and NAV
SEL

stevedebi

qbrozen said:

I can't say for sure, but I don't believe the moonroof takes up headroom in the JSW since it slides over the roof rather than into the headliner.

BTW, in case you didn't know, I'm 6'5", so head and legroom is of utmost importance to me.

I was always bumping my head until I realized that I should simply lower the seat! Also, easier to get in and out. I had been leaving it up high because it is my wife's car. Now when I drive it except to get diesel every couple of weeks, I lower the seat. It has plenty of room. 6 footer here.