VW TDI Settlement - buying a TDI now

breldbreld Member Posts: 5,796
edited July 2016 in Volkswagen
Myself and some others have been discussing in another thread some particulars about the recently announced terms of VW's settlement program for the 2.0l TDI vehicles, and thought it may warrant it's own discussion thread.

In particular, I have read through the court documents and believe one could purchase an eligible TDI model now and participate in VW's proposed settlement program.

In fact, I purchased a used (obviously) 2013 Jetta Sportwagen TDI this past Saturday. I've always appreciated these cars so had the idea that if bought at the right price, I could enjoy owning such a car for the time being, and then have VW buy it back through their settlement offer (noting the settlement offer also includes an option to accept a "fix" for the car plus cash compensation, though no fix has been approved by the EPA thus far).

Anyone interested in the VW TDI settlement, post away!

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Comments

  • breldbreld Member Posts: 5,796
    FTC Order Exhibit 1A (settlement offer by vehicle)

    Exhibit 1A

    Exhibit 2A (mileage adjustment for Golf)

    Exhibit 2A - Golf Mileage

    Exhibit 2B (mileage adjustment for Beetle and Jetta)

    Exhibit 2B - Beetle/Jetta Mileage

    Exhibit 2C (mileage adjustment for Passat and A3)

    Exhibit 2C - Passat/A3 Mileage

    Owners of the affected vehicles (enter VIN # here to determine vehicle eligibility - https://vwcourtsettlement.com/en/) may opt for 1) Buyback Restitution or 2) Approved Emissions Fix plus Restitution.

    If you owned the car as of September 18, 2015, your Buyback Restitution is equal to the first column on Exhibit 1A above, adjusted for options and mileage. If you opt for the emissions fix, you are entitled to the fix at no cost, plus the cash compensation in the second column of the Exhibit 1A.

    If you purchased the car between September 18, 2015 and June 28, 2016, your Buyback Restitution is reduced by 50% of the amount in the second column (adjusted for options and mileage). Your Approved Emissions Restitution would be 50% of the amount in the second column.

    If you owned the car as of September 18, 2015 and sold the car prior to June 28, 2016, you are eligible for 50% of the amount in the second column.

    So, if you purchased the vehicle after September 18, 2015, you are essentially sharing the restitution portion with the previous owner who owned it as of September 18.

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  • breldbreld Member Posts: 5,796
    By the way, I should disclaim that I have nothing to do with VW or the settlement. I'm simply interested in the issue and have read the available court documents. So, I'm happy to offer my take on it, but that's all it is - my take. And the whole thing interests me enough to spur on conversation about it and see what others think.

    And, it's not insignificant that the settlement agreement has not been approved by the court yet - that is expected on July 26th.

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  • andres3andres3 Southern CAMember Posts: 12,491
    Where does it list eligible owners after June 28, 2016 which is your category?
    '15 Audi Misano Red Pearl S4, '16 Audi TTS Daytona Gray Pearl, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • breldbreld Member Posts: 5,796
    Couple of other significant points:
    • Eligible Vehicles include the affected vehicles that are 1) registered with a state DOT (or equivalent agency) or held by a non-VW dealer as of June 28, 2016. I take this as VW dealers shouldn't be selling the 2.0 TDIs anymore. So I wouldn't assume an owner who purchases the vehicle from a VW dealer after June 28th is part of the settlement.
    • The vehicle must be operable - driven by the power of its engine.
    • The vehicle cannot have a branded title and have been purchased from a salvage or junk yard subsequent to September 18, 2015.
    Some timeline considerations:
    • It is expected the court will approve the agreement July 26th.
    • Eligible Sellers will have 45 days from that point to make a claim for their "portion."
    • Claims will begin to be accepted shortly after that 45 day period.
    • VW has 90 days after a claim is processed to make the payment. The earliest this could begin is likely October of this year.
    • The Claim Period ends December 31, 2018, though owners must submit their claim by September 1, 2018.

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  • andres3andres3 Southern CAMember Posts: 12,491
    Anyone addicted to shopping want to find me a TDI in San Diego county not being sold by a VW dealer?
    '15 Audi Misano Red Pearl S4, '16 Audi TTS Daytona Gray Pearl, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • breldbreld Member Posts: 5,796
    andres3 said:

    Where does it list eligible owners after June 28, 2016 which is your category?

    Settlement Agreement definition of "Class"

    “Class” means, for purposes of this Class Action Settlement only, a nationwide
    class of all persons (including individuals and entities) who, on September 18, 2015, were
    registered owners or lessees of a Volkswagen or Audi 2.0-liter TDI vehicle in the United States or
    its territories (an “Eligible Vehicle,” defined more fully in Section 2.33), or who, between
    September 18, 2015, and the end of the Claim Period, become a registered owner of an Eligible
    Vehicle.


    and definition of "Eligible Owner"

    “Eligible Owner” means the registered owner or owners of an Eligible Vehicle on
    June 28, 2016, or the registered owner or owners who acquire an Eligible Vehicle after June 28,
    2016, but before the end of the Claim Period, except that the owner of an Eligible Vehicle who
    had an active lease issued by VW Credit, Inc. as of September 18, 2015, and purchased an
    Eligible Vehicle previously leased by that owner after June 28, 2016, shall be an Eligible Lessee.
    For avoidance of doubt, an Eligible Owner ceases to be an Eligible Owner if he transfers
    ownership of the Eligible Vehicle to a third party on or after June 28, 2016; and a third party who
    acquires ownership of an Eligible Vehicle on or after June 28, 2016, thereby becomes an Eligible
    Owner if that third party otherwise meets the definition of an Eligible Owner.

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  • 28firefighter28firefighter Seattle, WAMember Posts: 7,762
    I think I'm going to count myself out here. The TDI market here in Seattle is still borderline insane given everything happening.

    Not to mention, I had a VW dealer tell me today that VW would only buyback cars owned before the scandal broke. I didn't even bother explaining - was not worth it.
    2019 Subaru Outback 3.6R Limited, 2021 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Sahara 4xE, 2004 BMW 330i ZHP 6MT
  • breldbreld Member Posts: 5,796

    I think I'm going to count myself out here. The TDI market here in Seattle is still borderline insane given everything happening.

    Not to mention, I had a VW dealer tell me today that VW would only buyback cars owned before the scandal broke. I didn't even bother explaining - was not worth it.

    Well, obviously I have a vested interest now and hope that dealer is wrong. But if VW doesn't reach an 85% buyback rate by June 30, 2019, they stand to pay fines to the tune of $85 million per each 1% they miss it by. I'm still betting that they will be eager to buy the cars back.

    Not to mention the documents simply contradict what the dealer said.

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  • henrynhenryn Houston, TXMember Posts: 3,029
    edited July 2016
    Hmmm…. I’m getting very, very interested. I think I will stop posting links to the vehicles, these things may sell out fast.

    @Breld, thanks for reposting the links.

    I’m looking at a 2012 Passat TDI SE, with 43k miles. I checked the VIN number, it does show as eligible. And it is not at a VW dealership.

    I’m seeing $19,907 for a 2012 Passat TDI SE in the SW (southwest US), with $5,807 as the “Modification”. As I understand it, I would get half of the “Modification”, or about $2,903. So $19,907 plus $2,903 yields $22,810, is that right?

    If I sold it back right now (or in 2 months), with less than 45k miles, I would get a further mileage adjustment of $930.

    And if I keep it for up to 2 years, run the miles up to say 59k, then I would have a negative adjustment of $480 and $80/2, so $520 less with 59k miles. That leaves $$22,810 minus $520 is $22,290.

    Wow! If I’m doing this right, I really, really like this deal!

    ON EDIT: Rats, that one has a sunroof, scratch it from the list.
    2019 Chrysler Pacifica
  • andres3andres3 Southern CAMember Posts: 12,491
    Anyone addicted to shopping want to find me a TDI in San Diego county not being sold by a VW dealer?
    '15 Audi Misano Red Pearl S4, '16 Audi TTS Daytona Gray Pearl, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 29,330
    Was thinking on this during my commute. This could be an interesting way to eliminate negative equity on my car.

    '07 ML63, '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c, '14 Town&Country Limited. 54-car history and counting!

  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 29,330
    Sorry to be a late comer, and I am also having computer issues, so this is all from my phone. But am I correct that a 2014 jetta sportwagon tdi with auto trans, moonroof, power seat, and nav with 27k miles would have about a $29k buyback??
    i may go grab this thing! Toyota dealer has it for $19,590.

    '07 ML63, '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c, '14 Town&Country Limited. 54-car history and counting!

  • henrynhenryn Houston, TXMember Posts: 3,029
    Let's see, you're in New England, 2014 Jetta Sportwagen is $27,557 and $7,082 / 2 = $31,098. And a 2014 with 27k miles is neutral on mileage adjustment.

    No wait, I forgot, the mileage adjustment is pro-rated for 10 months at 1,042 miles per month, so take off approximately 10k miles, so look at 17k miles on a 2014, that is "add $1,170", so a total of $32,268.

    Wait, wait, 3 more things: Power Sunroof add $690, Navigation System add $750, Power Seat add $360.
    Now the total is $34,068. Can that possibly be right?
    2019 Chrysler Pacifica
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 29,330
    Not sure what you mean about the prorated miles.

    '07 ML63, '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c, '14 Town&Country Limited. 54-car history and counting!

  • henrynhenryn Houston, TXMember Posts: 3,029
    edited July 2016
    The words they use are "adjusted mileage", as shown here:




    I think, stress "THINK", the mileage adjustment in this case is more than the $1,170 I mentioned above. But this is starting to get seriously complex. I thought I had a handle on this until I read the "Further Adjustment" part. That part is not making any sense to me.
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  • henrynhenryn Houston, TXMember Posts: 3,029
    edited July 2016
    Bear with me here.

    Working with the numbers from @qbrozen above.

    The modification amount (item 5), is $1,170.
    “If the Modification amount from (5) above is less than $5,100:”

    Yes, it is, $1,170 is less than $5,100, so:

    a. Subtract the Modification amount from (5) from $5,100.

    Allright, $5,100 minus $1,170 is $3,930.

    b. For Buyback: Add the result from (a) to the number from (5) above. This is your Mileage-Adjusted Buyback Amount.

    Okay, (a) is $3,930. (5) is $1,170. Add them together; you’re going to get $5,100, which is where you started. So why didn’t they just say “If item (5) is less than $5,100, just use $5,100” ???

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  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,457
    And you'll get to enjoy revisiting your numbers when it's time to put "other" on your 1040 under the Income section. And you can create a new category called Cost of Goods Purchased. :D
  • henrynhenryn Houston, TXMember Posts: 3,029
    https://agrahamg.github.io/VWBuybackCalculator/

    This thing looks accurate, but I'm not at all sure how he is doing the further adjustment. Maybe he isn't, it seems to come out $0 no matter what.




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  • henrynhenryn Houston, TXMember Posts: 3,029
    Okay, here's another calculator.

    http://byebyetdi.us/

    This one doesn't seem to allow for the options, but otherwise agrees with the first one I found.

    I was reading over on in the forums at tdiclub.com, and there is a lot of discussion there. It would appear that the $5,100 is the minimum amount you are entitled to as compensation if you choose NOT to sell the car back to Volkswagen. If that's true, we can safely ignore the "Further adjustment".

    2019 Chrysler Pacifica
  • breldbreld Member Posts: 5,796
    I didn't double check any numbers above, but make sure you're not adding the
    henryn said:

    Hmmm…. I’m getting very, very interested. I think I will stop posting links to the vehicles, these things may sell out fast.

    @Breld, thanks for reposting the links.

    I’m looking at a 2012 Passat TDI SE, with 43k miles. I checked the VIN number, it does show as eligible. And it is not at a VW dealership.

    I’m seeing $19,907 for a 2012 Passat TDI SE in the SW (southwest US), with $5,807 as the “Modification”. As I understand it, I would get half of the “Modification”, or about $2,903. So $19,907 plus $2,903 yields $22,810, is that right?

    If I sold it back right now (or in 2 months), with less than 45k miles, I would get a further mileage adjustment of $930.

    And if I keep it for up to 2 years, run the miles up to say 59k, then I would have a negative adjustment of $480 and $80/2, so $520 less with 59k miles. That leaves $$22,810 minus $520 is $22,290.

    Wow! If I’m doing this right, I really, really like this deal!

    ON EDIT: Rats, that one has a sunroof, scratch it from the list.

    That $19,907 amount is the entire buyback, including the restitution, so you wouldn't add anything other than adjustments for mileage and options. In fact, you likely would subtract 50% of the restitution (in column 2) if the vehicle was traded by its previous owner prior to June 28th.

    So on that Passat (which I know you may have eliminated due to the sunroof), it's actually a $22,517 buyback with the sunroof and mileage adj, less 50% of the restitution ($6,242, adjusted) - about $19,400.

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  • breldbreld Member Posts: 5,796
    henryn said:

    The words they use are "adjusted mileage", as shown here:




    I think, stress "THINK", the mileage adjustment in this case is more than the $1,170 I mentioned above. But this is starting to get seriously complex. I thought I had a handle on this until I read the "Further Adjustment" part. That part is not making any sense to me.

    Basically, the minimum restitution is $5,100, regardless of mileage adjustment. So, the formulas in that table get you there, whether its a buyback or modification election.

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  • breldbreld Member Posts: 5,796
    qbrozen said:

    Sorry to be a late comer, and I am also having computer issues, so this is all from my phone. But am I correct that a 2014 jetta sportwagon tdi with auto trans, moonroof, power seat, and nav with 27k miles would have about a $29k buyback??
    i may go grab this thing! Toyota dealer has it for $19,590.

    With mileage and options, a $29,987 buyback, subject to a reduction of 50% of the restitution for the previous owner. That restitution is $7,487, so reduction of $3,744 (assuming the car was traded prior to June 28th).

    So...$26,244, plus a portion of the "eligible seller" pool not claimed, which won't be known until September, after eligible sellers have had the chance to make their claims.

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  • breldbreld Member Posts: 5,796
    qbrozen said:

    Not sure what you mean about the prorated miles.

    You probably already gathered this from the posts, but the mileage adjustment is based on estimated mileage of the vehicle as of September 2015. So you get to "roll back" the miles by 1,042 miles (12,500 annual average) for each month since then. That basically gives you an "allowance" of 1,042 miles per month while you drive it, without any resulting adjustment. In fact, let's say you parked the car in the driveway - your mileage adjustment would increase.

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  • breldbreld Member Posts: 5,796
    qbrozen said:

    Sorry to be a late comer, and I am also having computer issues, so this is all from my phone. But am I correct that a 2014 jetta sportwagon tdi with auto trans, moonroof, power seat, and nav with 27k miles would have about a $29k buyback??
    i may go grab this thing! Toyota dealer has it for $19,590.

    By the way, that's exactly what I bought this past weekend, except a 2013 model. It's a nice vehicle.

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  • henrynhenryn Houston, TXMember Posts: 3,029


    So you would get $24,469 minus $6,557 / 2 , or $21,190.
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  • breldbreld Member Posts: 5,796
    By the way, the 50% restitution adjustment is a little hazy in the documents.

    By the word of the FTC Order, that really only applies to owners who purchased their vehicles after September 18, 2015 and BEFORE June 28, 2016. The idea being that previous owners are not eligible for the Seller Restitution if they sold their car after June 28, 2016.

    So technically, if you buy now, you may not be subject to the 50% reduction. What's not addressed is if a previous owner traded their car prior to June 28, 2016, and the car is sold to the new owner subsequent to June 28th. So, you basically have "both" an Eligible Seller and a new owner who purchased after June 28th.

    Other documents simply refer to whether you owned the vehicle as of September 18th, 2015 or purchased it afterward (with no reference to the June 28th date).

    So I'm going with the assumption that if you buy the car now, you're subject to the "sharing" of the restitution. If I find that I'm not, it'll be a pleasant bonus.

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  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 191,826
    henryn said:



    So you would get $24,469 minus $6,557 / 2 , or $21,190.

    It's a stick, so probably even less.. I'll have to pass on that one.. Pretty, though.

    Looks like the real money is in the Jetta wagons or Passats.

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  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 191,826
    @henryn thanks!

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  • henrynhenryn Houston, TXMember Posts: 3,029
    I think I'm beginning to get a handle on this. The best part, in my mind, that value which you calculate right now, will basically not change. You are allowed 1,042 miles per month, and you can keep the car until (apparently) December, 2018 (better than 2 years). If you drive more than 1k miles per month, your buyback will go down. If you drive significantly less, your buyback will go up a bit.

    If you get in an accident and total the car, VW is out of the picture, strictly up to you and your insurance company. And if you blow up the engine (not likely, but if you do), VW is out of the picture (unless you're under warranty).
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  • breldbreld Member Posts: 5,796
    The Golfs and Wagons seem to have a good following, so retained value better, at least relative to other models.

    Passats - yes, seems there may be better deals on those.

    No one is asking about used Beetle TDIs? I've found some good deals on those!

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  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 191,826
    breld said:

    The Golfs and Wagons seem to have a good following, so retained value better, at least relative to other models.

    Passats - yes, seems there may be better deals on those.

    No one is asking about used Beetle TDIs? I've found some good deals on those!

    I'd have to find something I really want to drive for awhile, and that means a stick, most likely. Though, I might be able to live with the DSG in a Jetta wagon. They are just really few and far between.

    Is it your take that you need to have this purchase done before the final order is in?

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  • breldbreld Member Posts: 5,796
    henryn said:

    https://agrahamg.github.io/VWBuybackCalculator/

    This thing looks accurate, but I'm not at all sure how he is doing the further adjustment. Maybe he isn't, it seems to come out $0 no matter what.




    Nice find on the calculator. For kicks, I entered the information for my recently purchased wagon, and it is exactly as I had "manually" calculated.

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  • breldbreld Member Posts: 5,796
    kyfdx said:

    breld said:

    The Golfs and Wagons seem to have a good following, so retained value better, at least relative to other models.

    Passats - yes, seems there may be better deals on those.

    No one is asking about used Beetle TDIs? I've found some good deals on those!

    I'd have to find something I really want to drive for awhile, and that means a stick, most likely. Though, I might be able to live with the DSG in a Jetta wagon. They are just really few and far between.

    Is it your take that you need to have this purchase done before the final order is in?
    This is referenced in several of the documents, but the FTC Order states:

    “Eligible Owner” means the registered owner or owners of an Eligible Vehicle
    on June 28, 2016, or the registered owner or owners who acquire an Eligible Vehicle after
    June 28, 2016, but before the deadline to submit a claim under the Settlement Program


    So, you have through the end of the claim period, or at least through the claim deadline (September 1, 2018). I actually wanted to move a little quicker due to 1) I kinda wanted to "establish" my ownership sooner than later and 2) I expect the number of eligible vehicles on the market will only decrease from here on out. And like you, I wanted a car that I actually desired regardless of the buyback opportunity.

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  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 191,826
    I really like this one.. Of course, it's an 8 hour drive...

    https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/665279199/overview/

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  • corvettecorvette United StatesMember Posts: 8,484
    kyfdx said:

    I really like this one.. Of course, it's an 8 hour drive...

    That is very near Centralia (home of the still-burning underground mine fire)--I've been there. Eerie little skeleton of a town now that most of the houses have been dozed, but the roads are still there. The graffiti highway is kind of neat, too.

    You could make a road trip out of it and pick the car up, hit Centralia, then take a tour of Fallingwater and Kentuck Knob, etc... Lots to see in PA. I also enjoyed visiting Pittsburgh last year.
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 42,162
    Doesn't one of the posters here live in State College? Or that might be at a different forum.

    not that far from me. Close to Lewisburg, where Bucknell U is.

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  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 42,162
    now you have me looking. too bad I am not in the market now, because this could work out to get me through the end of college!

    this one seems OK, loaded 2014 wagon. Must be a black on black breld mobile. I assume it will go back for more than listed for. Maybe good for Qbrzoen?

    https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/670111158/overview/

    I like this loaded passat (and colors) though interior needs a serious detail

    https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/672500778/overview/

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD

  • corvettecorvette United StatesMember Posts: 8,484
    edited July 2016
    stickguy said:


    I like this loaded passat (and colors) though interior needs a serious detail

    Love the color combo there, too. I think that kind of vehicle is the way to get the maximum settlement, if it's priced appropriately. The ideal candidate would be a low-mileage vehicle that is dented all to heck, bad interior, curb damaged wheels, bad Carfax, history of frame damage (so long as it's not a salvage), but runs well, and with a selling price reflecting the cosmetic deficiencies. I think that car would still get the same buyback as anybody else.
  • breldbreld Member Posts: 5,796
    corvette said:

    stickguy said:


    I like this loaded passat (and colors) though interior needs a serious detail

    Love the color combo there, too. I think that kind of vehicle is the way to get the maximum settlement, if it's priced appropriately. The ideal candidate would be a low-mileage vehicle that is dented all to heck, bad interior, curb damaged wheels, bad Carfax, history of frame damage (so long as it's not a salvage), but runs well, and with a selling price reflecting the cosmetic deficiencies. I think that car would still get the same buyback as anybody else.
    I think you're right.

    And you're not kidding on that interior needing a detail, but otherwise the SEL trim level is nice.

    I think that wagon may be the one @qbrozen was commenting on above?

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  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 191,826
    stickguy said:

    Doesn't one of the posters here live in State College? Or that might be at a different forum.

    not that far from me. Close to Lewisburg, where Bucknell U is.

    @PF_Flyer is from State College. Hey, I know him! ;)

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  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 191,826
    corvette said:

    kyfdx said:

    I really like this one.. Of course, it's an 8 hour drive...

    That is very near Centralia (home of the still-burning underground mine fire)--I've been there. Eerie little skeleton of a town now that most of the houses have been dozed, but the roads are still there. The graffiti highway is kind of neat, too.

    You could make a road trip out of it and pick the car up, hit Centralia, then take a tour of Fallingwater and Kentuck Knob, etc... Lots to see in PA. I also enjoyed visiting Pittsburgh last year.
    Probably more like driving 6 hours on Friday night, motel stay, up early and at the dealership by 10 AM.. out by Noon, and back home by 9 PM. Sounds romantic, huh?

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  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 191,826
    Seems like I priced that one out, and cleared about $4K-$5K, if I got out the door for $20K.

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  • breldbreld Member Posts: 5,796
    Hmm - I come up with $25,397 on the buyback, but subject to the 50/50 sharing of the $6,722 restitution, so net $22,036?

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  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 191,826
    breld said:

    Hmm - I come up with $25,397 on the buyback, but subject to the 50/50 sharing of the $6,722 restitution, so net $22,036?

    I'll have to check that one again.. I checked so many. lol

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  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 29,330
    edited July 2016
    breld said:

    corvette said:

    stickguy said:


    I like this loaded passat (and colors) though interior needs a serious detail

    Love the color combo there, too. I think that kind of vehicle is the way to get the maximum settlement, if it's priced appropriately. The ideal candidate would be a low-mileage vehicle that is dented all to heck, bad interior, curb damaged wheels, bad Carfax, history of frame damage (so long as it's not a salvage), but runs well, and with a selling price reflecting the cosmetic deficiencies. I think that car would still get the same buyback as anybody else.
    I think you're right.

    And you're not kidding on that interior needing a detail, but otherwise the SEL trim level is nice.

    I think that wagon may be the one @qbrozen was commenting on above?
    Yup, that's the one I am eyeballing. Still a little unclear on the buyback. So are you guys saying the buyback already reflects the restitution? So when I see $29k buyback (adding in the options), I have to subtract half the restitution?

    edit: I used the calculator above and it gave me a $30,827 buyback. Again, though, does that mean I subtract half of the $7600 restitution?

    '07 ML63, '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c, '14 Town&Country Limited. 54-car history and counting!

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