VW TDI Settlement - buying a TDI now

kyfdx

breld said:

Hmm - I come up with $25,397 on the buyback, but subject to the 50/50 sharing of the $6,722 restitution, so net $22,036?

Using the 13 month mileage date, I get closer to $22,500 but you are correct.. On the plus side, I could drive the car for virtually nothing, other than opportunity cost on the money and maintenance. And, still possibly clear $2000-$3000, when I'm done with it.

breld

qbrozen said:

breld said:

corvette said:

stickguy said:

I like this loaded passat (and colors) though interior needs a serious detail

Love the color combo there, too. I think that kind of vehicle is the way to get the maximum settlement, if it's priced appropriately. The ideal candidate would be a low-mileage vehicle that is dented all to heck, bad interior, curb damaged wheels, bad Carfax, history of frame damage (so long as it's not a salvage), but runs well, and with a selling price reflecting the cosmetic deficiencies. I think that car would still get the same buyback as anybody else.

I think you're right.

And you're not kidding on that interior needing a detail, but otherwise the SEL trim level is nice.

I think that wagon may be the one @qbrozen was commenting on above?

Yup, that's the one I am eyeballing. Still a little unclear on the buyback. So are you guys saying the buyback already reflects the restitution? So when I see $29k buyback (adding in the options), I have to subtract half the restitution?

edit: I used the calculator above and it gave me a $30,827 buyback. Again, though, does that mean I subtract half of the $7600 restitution?

Yes, you need to subtract half the restitution.

The documents discuss the buyback as having two components: 1) the Vehicle Value, which is the NADA clean trade as of September 2015 and 2) And the Restitution, which is the cash compensation, equal to 20% of the Vehicle Value, plus a fixed amount of $2,987 (minimum of $5,100).

But, all the exhibits for the buyback (and these on-line calculators that use the exhibits), for simplicity sake I'm sure, reflect the Buyback option as the TOTAL payment for buyback, including both those components.

At this point, I would assume any vehicle purchased after September 18, 2015 is subject to the 50/50 sharing of the restitution, though that is questionable for those purchased after June 28, 2016.

breld

kyfdx said:

breld said:

Hmm - I come up with $25,397 on the buyback, but subject to the 50/50 sharing of the $6,722 restitution, so net $22,036?

Using the 13 month mileage date, I get closer to $22,500 but you are correct.. On the plus side, I could drive the car for virtually nothing, other than opportunity cost on the money and maintenance. And, still possibly clear $2000-$3000, when I'm done with it.

I agree - driving a car you like with no depreciation would be quite the treat. Anything above that is gravy.

qbrozen

breld said:

Yes, you need to subtract half the restitution.

The documents discuss the buyback as having two components: 1) the Vehicle Value, which is the NADA clean trade as of September 2015 and 2) And the Restitution, which is the cash compensation, equal to 20% of the Vehicle Value, plus a fixed amount of $2,987 (minimum of $5,100).

But, all the exhibits for the buyback (and these on-line calculators that use the exhibits), for simplicity sake I'm sure, reflect the Buyback option as the TOTAL payment for buyback, including both those components.

At this point, I would assume any vehicle purchased after September 18, 2015 is subject to the 50/50 sharing of the restitution, though that is questionable for those purchased after June 28, 2016.

Ok, so that is still $27k for that 2014 black/black wagon. After looking at values, it is quite overpriced, to boot. $17.5k would be a better purchase number. Hmmm... so much to think about.

stickguy

I should go look at that blue Passat. I have no clue what buyback on that would be, but I like it. Just have to convince the wife it is an investment, not another car I need like a hole in the head.

My timing, is just never right.

breld

qbrozen said:

breld said:

Yes, you need to subtract half the restitution.

The documents discuss the buyback as having two components: 1) the Vehicle Value, which is the NADA clean trade as of September 2015 and 2) And the Restitution, which is the cash compensation, equal to 20% of the Vehicle Value, plus a fixed amount of $2,987 (minimum of $5,100).

But, all the exhibits for the buyback (and these on-line calculators that use the exhibits), for simplicity sake I'm sure, reflect the Buyback option as the TOTAL payment for buyback, including both those components.

At this point, I would assume any vehicle purchased after September 18, 2015 is subject to the 50/50 sharing of the restitution, though that is questionable for those purchased after June 28, 2016.

Ok, so that is still $27k for that 2014 black/black wagon. After looking at values, it is quite overpriced, to boot. $17.5k would be a better purchase number. Hmmm... so much to think about.

Yeah, I found it's a different way of looking at a purchase than we are all used to. When looking at a used car, we all gather value information online, most notably from yourself @qbrozen, and then evaluate the purchase price. In this situation, it's more about comparing the purchase price to the buyback and evaluating the value that way.

It still irked me though to pay more than a fair value for one of these TDIs even if there was "profit" to be made on the buyback. The 2014 base model wagon I initially looked at, with low miles, was $19,981 - at least $2-3k overpriced in my book. They did lower it by $1k, but I still passed. The 2013 I ended up buying was $16,662 - a model year older, but better equipped with nav and sun, and the same miles to boot. Felt much better about that price.

I mean, let's say I'm wrong about all this buyback business, and I'm "forced" to accept a fix (which I think is the absolute worst case situation) - I want to make sure I buy a car I like at an appropriate fair value.

breld

qbrozen said:

breld said:

Yes, you need to subtract half the restitution.

The documents discuss the buyback as having two components: 1) the Vehicle Value, which is the NADA clean trade as of September 2015 and 2) And the Restitution, which is the cash compensation, equal to 20% of the Vehicle Value, plus a fixed amount of $2,987 (minimum of $5,100).

But, all the exhibits for the buyback (and these on-line calculators that use the exhibits), for simplicity sake I'm sure, reflect the Buyback option as the TOTAL payment for buyback, including both those components.

At this point, I would assume any vehicle purchased after September 18, 2015 is subject to the 50/50 sharing of the restitution, though that is questionable for those purchased after June 28, 2016.

Ok, so that is still $27k for that 2014 black/black wagon. After looking at values, it is quite overpriced, to boot. $17.5k would be a better purchase number. Hmmm... so much to think about.

Wouldn't hurt to offer the $17.5k, right? It's not a one-price shop?

I assume those of us interested in buying these cars are few and far between, and I don't think the dealers are all that interested in going through VW's buyback process, at least not at this point. So I think in general non-VW dealerships are fairly anxious to unload the TDI models if they have a real buyer.

corvette

Is subtracting half the restitution just under the worst case scenario, or will all buyers from here on out have to split that with the former owner? 

qbrozen

This one could net a good return. Buyback is just a hair over $23k. I also love the color combo.

And here is a manual Golf for anyone who is interested. Looks like buyback would be a little over $19k.

qbrozen

corvette said:

Is subtracting half the restitution just under the worst case scenario, or will all buyers from here on out have to split that with the former owner? 

I'm just going to assume half, personally. Heck, anyone doing this should probably assume only the NADA value and nothing more... just in case.

stickguy

Q, I like them both. Especially the golf. Just has to be a different color and have a roof. The Jetta looks like a good deal too. I could live with that. Heck, still under B2b warranty until next February, then 2 more years of power train. I would be up there today if I actually needed a car.

qbrozen

I just realized that Toyota dealer has 2 of them. Identical cars, different miles, different VINs, and different Carfaxes. Both offered for sale 4/10. Weird.

breld

qbrozen said:

Is subtracting half the restitution just under the worst case scenario, or will all buyers from here on out have to split that with the former owner? 

I'm just going to assume half, personally. Heck, anyone doing this should probably assume only the NADA value and nothing more... just in case.

That's the assumption I'm going with myself.

The docs state if you sell your vehicle after June 28th, you are not eligible for the seller restitution.  Accordingly, they carve out those buyers who purchase between September 18 and June 28th as the ones subject to the "sharing" of the restitution.

So there is certainly potential to not even have the 50% reduction in restitution, but I'm counting on that, and as @qbrozen suggested, I'm really looking at the vehicle value itself in evaluating the deal.  Anything above that is quite the bonus.

henryn

I can't seem to find a Passat TDI without a sunroof. As a matter of fact, the one Beetle I found has a sunroof. And most of the Jetta's do as well. So I ran all the numbers, picked out the best looking Passat with the best set of numbers, and called about scheduling a test drive. Hah! It's actually in Dallas, but they can bring it down to their Houston location with a $500 deposit.

No thanks, keep looking.

kyfdx

qbrozen said:

This one could net a good return. Buyback is just a hair over $23k. I also love the color combo.

And here is a manual Golf for anyone who is interested. Looks like buyback would be a little over $19k.

Those are great deals. Can't find anything like that around here

andres3

henryn said:

I think I'm beginning to get a handle on this. The best part, in my mind, that value which you calculate right now, will basically not change. You are allowed 1,042 miles per month, and you can keep the car until (apparently) December, 2018 (better than 2 years). If you drive more than 1k miles per month, your buyback will go down. If you drive significantly less, your buyback will go up a bit.

If you get in an accident and total the car, VW is out of the picture, strictly up to you and your insurance company. And if you blow up the engine (not likely, but if you do), VW is out of the picture (unless you're under warranty).

Replacing an engine under warranty just so it can be scrapped and bought back seems wasteful. Of course, were not talking about a domestic here, so how many warrant-able engine failures do you think they'll run into?

stickguy

Ky, the brown Jetta is probably about 1/2 hour from Newark airport. and after you leave the dealer, on I80 in about 2 minutes. Easy in, easy out!

breld

Posted by @stever elsewhere:

usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2016/07/13/california-rejects-vws-plan-fix-3-liter-diesel-cars/87062504/

I'll admit I do browse the ads for Touaregs and Q7s - prices seem to be holding strong, but this can't help things, and perhaps a settlement isn't far behind?

kyfdx

stickguy said:

Ky, the brown Jetta is probably about 1/2 hour from Newark airport. and after you leave the dealer, on I80 in about 2 minutes. Easy in, easy out!

lol.. thanks for enabling

qbrozen

I really dig that brown one. I just like wagons too much, though, and if i wind up stuck with it, I'd much rather have the wagon, even if it is black on black.

so the wife is onboard with the plan. I think I will be able to go to that Toyota dealer tomorrow after work.

henryn

I'm having a very difficult time finding one without a sunroof. I'm beginning to believe that VW never sold a TDI without a sunroof. The search continues, it is a slow week at work, so ...

breld

qbrozen said:

I really dig that brown one. I just like wagons too much, though, and if i wind up stuck with it, I'd much rather have the wagon, even if it is black on black.

so the wife is onboard with the plan. I think I will be able to go to that Toyota dealer tomorrow after work.

Good luck! I'll be curious as to your impressions of the vehicle - I've been very pleased thus far.

qbrozen

And, of course, if that happens and I do sell it back to VW, I start all over again. haha.

stickguy

Henry, have you sat in a Passat with moonroof? I found it to have plenty of headroom, and I tend to sit "tall" and done cars don't fit me at all. The TL was like that.

henryn

stickguy said:

Henry, have you sat in a Passat with moonroof? I found it to have plenty of headroom, and I tend to sit "tall" and done cars don't fit me at all. The TL was like that.

No, I haven't (yet). I was going to go do that yesterday, after work, but.. The first one I was interested in is actually in Dallas, not Houston. And the second one, they haven't gotten back to me.

stickguy

Well, don't need a diesel for that activity. Sit in a gasser, and at least you will know

henryn

True. I wish the VW dealers weren't excluded from this. Most of the nice ones I'm seeing are at VW dealers. Going to be interesting to see what happens there.

I have been reading a little more on the forums over at tdiclub. Someone brought up an interesting point, about the VW dealers who have used diesels and are selling them. VW is going to have to do something about those cars, eventually. Which means fix or buy back or SOMETHING.

breld

Yeah - I do agree with that. My guess is VW will still buy it back and the dealer itself may get in some sort of trouble. But I'd be a bit worried that the buyback is under some other terms other than the proposed settlement.

It is pretty clear on the definition of Eligible Vehicle that is includes those vehicles held by a "non-VW" dealer as of June 28, 2016.

Michaell

One more time; what's the buyback value on this?

http://autotrek.com/listings/2010-volkswagen-jetta-tdi/

qbrozen

Michaell said:

One more time; what's the buyback value on this?

http://autotrek.com/listings/2010-volkswagen-jetta-tdi/

$17,597 with the full comp, and subtract $2711 if splitting the comp.

Per the previously posted calculator.

kyfdx

I did a search for TDIs of any type, and it's amazing how far I would have to go to get one. If I want a stick, even further. I think I need one of those Jersey guys to do a deal for me. (Hey, I gotta guy..)

qbrozen

remind me where you live

kyfdx

qbrozen said:

remind me where you live

Cincinnati area

stevedebi

stickguy said:

Henry, have you sat in a Passat with moonroof? I found it to have plenty of headroom, and I tend to sit "tall" and done cars don't fit me at all. The TL was like that.

I have one, in a 2014 SE. My head is within an inch of the roof.

qbrozen

kyfdx said:

qbrozen said:

remind me where you live

Cincinnati area

What am I doing wrong? I searched cars.com and found many in the Cinci area.

Here are just a few:
'14 wagon with 10k miles
'14 wagon with 14k miles
'13 Jetta with 32k miles
'14 Passat with 36k miles
'14 Passat with 44k miles
'12 Jetta with 46k miles

kyfdx

qbrozen said:

kyfdx said:

qbrozen said:

remind me where you live

Cincinnati area

What am I doing wrong? I searched cars.com and found many in the Cinci area.

Here are just a few:
'14 wagon with 10k miles
'14 wagon with 14k miles
'13 Jetta with 32k miles
'14 Passat with 36k miles
'14 Passat with 44k miles
'12 Jetta with 46k miles

VW dealers don't count...

kyfdx

I think I set a price limit of $20K and a mileage limit of 40K, to get a good deal, and be under warranty.

That might have weeded a few of those out.

stever

Maybe the trick is to have a strawman buy the TDI from a dealer and then resell it to you.

(hey, everyone cheats, right? Not just VW?)

kyfdx

stever said:

Maybe the trick is to have a strawman buy the TDI from a dealer and then resell it to you.

(hey, everyone cheats, right? Not just VW?)

The VIN numbers are already listed as not eligible.

(you didn't think we thought of that?)

stickguy

This scam is getting complicated.

Who's rich enough here to float a million or so to buy them all up, stash in a warehouse, and make a killing down the road?

Maybe Steve. He is probably rich, not having wasted money over the years buying cars!

kyfdx

@qbrozen Actually, that 2014 Passat for $16,988 has a buyback of $24,851, if I have to split the modification amount. And, that's just 10 miles from my house.

Didn't really want an automatic Passat, but it's a nice car to drive for a few months, if I can make $7K

This one: https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/673318493/overview/

kyfdx

Check out their website. That's the old Saab dealership!

qbrozen

You should definitely grab it. I'd probably opt for a Passat if I found one nearby that struck my fancy.

kyfdx

qbrozen said:

You should definitely grab it. I'd probably opt for a Passat if I found one nearby that struck my fancy.

Yeah.. Ideally, it would be a Golf or Jetta wagon with a stick. What makes that Passat really stick out is the spread between purchase and buyback. That's healthy.

stickguy

Other than the colors and miled, I like that Passat. Cruising range on that must be massive.

kyfdx

stickguy said:

Other than the colors and miled, I like that Passat. Cruising range on that must be massive.

It's probably higher than my cruising range..

kyfdx

I overshot the buyback by $687. I added for a sunroof, but I think that's standard on the TDI SE

I called.. it's still there.

Michaell

stickguy said:

This scam is getting complicated.

Who's rich enough here to float a million or so to buy them all up, stash in a warehouse, and make a killing down the road?

Maybe Steve. He is probably rich, not having wasted money over the years buying cars!

@breld and I were discussing that possibility at lunch earlier this week.

Forget the $1M.

$150,000 would get you 8-10 nice cars, each of which could return $3-5K profit in two years time.

$24,000 to $50,000 is a nice return on your investment after 24 months, wouldn't you say?

corvette

I'd take a Passat or Sportwagen over the others...

kyfdx, there is a dealer of questionable repute in Lexington that had several Jettas and a Golf in inventory, last I checked.

kyfdx

corvette said:

I'd take a Passat or Sportwagen over the others...

kyfdx, there is a dealer of questionable repute in Lexington that had several Jettas and a Golf in inventory, last I checked.

I ran the VIN of the Golf in Nicholasville... not included. Not sure why.